Grief, Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Parent Loss, Podcast, season 5 |
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Today, I’m sharing my conversation with my former Do Grief Differently client, Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer, a dedicated research associate at UT Austin’s Texas Center For Disability Studies.
Delyla shares her transformative journey into special education and advocacy after initially struggling to find direction in life. The conversation is especially poignant as it marks the second anniversary of her father, Fred Boyer’s passing—a pivotal moment that led Delyla to seek help with me through my one-on-one, 12-week program, Do Grief Differently. This dialogue illuminates how grief was once an unspoken topic in her family but has since become a source of personal growth and healing for Delyla.
Key Takeaways:
Embracing Change: After living with her mother in Houston, Delyla transitioned to a new career and community in Austin, strengthening familial relationships.
Understanding Self: A significant revelation came when she discovered she was on the autism spectrum—a realization supported by her sister—after years of being misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder.
Building Resilience: Through vulnerability and resilience, Delyla faced grief head-on with therapeutic tools like Do Grief Differently, tapping, and supportive friendships at work.
Honoring Legacy: She finds unique ways to commemorate her father’s memory, such as bike rides where she spreads his ashes, highlighting how accepting emotions can lead to clarity.
Delyla’s story is one of courage and transformation. In sharing her experience working with me, she highlights the positive impact of structured support systems in navigating loss while fostering personal growth. By embracing adaptability and compassion identified through tools like YouMap and learning from cherished memories with her father, Delyla continues to advocate for others facing similar challenges. Her message encourages engaging with community resources for healing while maintaining hope for future endeavors within special education advocacy.
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CONNECT WITH VICTORIA:
Embracing Grief as a Catalyst for Personal Growth
Grieving is an inevitable part of life, yet it often remains shrouded in silence and misunderstanding. In the latest episode of “Grieving Voices,” host Victoria delves into this complex topic with Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer, a social science and humanities research associate at the Texas Center For Disability Studies at UT Austin. Delilah’s journey through grief offers profound insights into how embracing emotional pain can lead to personal transformation.
A Journey Into Special Education
Delyla’s path was not straightforward; she initially struggled to find direction in her life and education. However, once she discovered her passion for special education, everything changed. Her dedication led her to prestigious fellowships and advocacy roles, including participating in the Council for Exceptional Children’s Inaugural Diversity Leadership Academy.
The Impact of Loss on Life Choices
The podcast recording date holds particular significance—October 21st marks two years since the passing of Delyla’s father, Fred Boyer. His death became a pivotal moment that propelled Delyla towards seeking help with grief management through Victoria’s program “Do Grief Differently.” She reflects on how growing up in an environment where grief wasn’t openly discussed shaped her initial struggles but also highlights how therapeutic tools like tapping have aided her healing process.
Navigating Relationships Through Grief
Moving from Houston to Austin marked another significant transition for Delyla—both professionally and personally. This move allowed her relationship with her mother to flourish despite physical distance while working on mending ties with her sister using skills acquired from the grieving program.
Episode Transcription:
Victoria Volk: Hello, and welcome to this week’s episode of grieving Voices. Today, my guest is Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer. She is a social science and humanities research associate three with the Texas Center for Disability Studies. At UT Austin. After nine years of not taking life or college seriously, Delilah graduated with her bachelor’s degree and went into special education. This was a path that was challenging and rewarding. And it also opened doors to education policy fellowships and a love for advocacy. She continues to advocate and look for opportunities to serve, and she is also a part of the council for exceptional children’s inaugural diversity leadership academy. And she was also a participant in my program to grief differently in April of twenty twenty three, which is like a year and a half ago already. And that where does the time go right?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: I know.
Victoria Volk: And so thank you so much for coming I know we talked about you being a guest on my podcast a few times even back in twenty twenty three. And so I’m finally glad to have you as a guest. And today is also a very special day, and maybe we can start there.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes. Thank you so much, Victoria. Yes. Today is a special day, October twenty first. This marks my dad’s second year of his death anniversary. His name was Fred Bowyer, and he was a an educator at heart and a leader as well in the public education setting.
Victoria Volk: And it’s also the loss that brought you to do grief differently as well. And it was obviously, it’s only two years today, and so it was quite raw for you at the time when you first came to work with me.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes. I found you actually just doing a search because I knew that I needed some help with grief and that’s where my journey started. With I never knew what grief was until I met you, Victoria. And when I went through with my dad just seeing him in the hospital and being there for him. So I thank you for helping me on this journey.
Victoria Volk: It was my pleasure. And I want to rewind the clock a little bit though into your childhood and just share with people what you were taught about grief and learned about grief before and growing up. And then how that changed for you in what you learned through through do group differently?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: As a child, I remember my first time, I was in fifth grade, and I heard that my grand my grandmother passed and my parents ended up going to the valley and told me to stay at school. And I did. So I I really wasn’t sure what was going on. I just knew somebody did pass and that I was supposed to continue to do my school work, be there, get good grades. So as a child, I don’t think I was really talked to grief really did was talked about it. And it was kinda I feel like it was maybe swept under the rug. And even when my grandmother did stay with us, it was like the doors were closed when she was when she had leukemia. But it it was something that was there. That I just didn’t know how to I didn’t know how to cope.
Victoria Volk: Yeah. We’re not taught the language either of how to express that sadness that we’re feeling or the uncertainty and and the unknowns. Yeah. And and because grief affects all areas of our life even as children. Right? Like, even as children, like, it can affect your friendships and excuse me. You know, you’re not showing up as your true self when you’re feeling burdened. You know? Yes. So how how did that change for you then in in what you have learned about grief through the through the process of do grief differently? And and how you kind of process those feelings even today, like, on this anniversary?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: It’s taken a lot of therapy, and I’m grateful for therapy I mean, even finding you, Victoria. But how I process it more is, like, for instance, today, I took the day off work, and I decided to just do things for myself. Go for vicryde. I’m gonna go for vicryde, and I’m gonna spread some of these ashes. And I guess, how I process it throughout, you know, the job? Because, you know, it does sneak up. It has snuck up a lot throughout the job. I I’ve learned tapping mechanisms. So I’ll do some tapping. But when I do feel that overwhelming feeling coming on, And I have great coworkers that understand my body language, which is so amazing. So they ask if I need a break or if I need the lights off or you know, so I really think that they’re a safe place for me. And it’s talking to people. I think that’s the major thing. Talking to people and telling them, No. I’m not okay right now because I believe that grief can be swept under the rug and I believe that’s what happened during my childhood and even when my dad did pass. It was like that. But I had to learn to use my voice and the tools like you, Victoria, and my therapist, Stephanie, and that’s where it’s changed. I’m like, I am greedy. I need to show these feelings. I will show them.
Victoria Volk: What was the biggest takeaway do you think that you got from the program? And Yeah, just what was the biggest takeaway for you?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Oh, gosh. I told everybody that I didn’t realize that grief wasn’t just losing somebody. I think that was my biggest takeaway. Grief is loss of a job. I mean, Grief is starting a new job. I mean, I feel like I grieved so much during since August. Since I did start a new job and everything.
Victoria Volk: And you moved? Yes. I moved neighbors, new community, new city.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes. So I that’s all grief and one. And So, yeah, you’ve taught me that, Victoria, that it’s just not losing my dad. It’s it’s losing a whole eighteen years of being a special education teacher and, you know, that was my decision. That was my decision for my mental health to say, I need a change.
And yet even with that, I grieve my students. I I wonder where they are and I know in August, I saw these bus all the buses coming out, and I was just like, I just felt sad. I was like, you know, by this time, last year, I was a teacher. I was getting my room set up. So, yeah, grief is not just losing somebody, and that’s the biggest thing that you’ve taught me.
Victoria Volk: How has the transition been for you into this new career, into the new community, and and the tools that you’ve leaned on to work through those transitions?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: It’s been difficult. I I it’s been difficult with the transitions. I really don’t like change
Victoria Volk: Oh, does.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Exactly. Who does?
Victoria Volk: People don’t.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yeah. But I just talked to my therapist, like, maybe a couple of minutes ago, and I was just, like, you know, I’m gonna embrace it. And what I’m doing is embracing the changes and maybe the yuckiness that I don’t like. And with my tools, with my tapping, with making sure I’m grounding myself, even taking a break at work, like going outside and walking, it’s really helped me to come back. To what I need to do. Like, even if it’s getting back on the computer and, you know, doing my data my data abstraction or, you know, getting on a meeting, It’s a challenge that I work through it.
Victoria Volk: Now, when you live you you lived with your mom in Houston. Are you living by yourself now in Austin?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes, I am.
Victoria Volk: That’s another big change. Right? So it has not been going. Like, it’s almost like you’re like, yeah, you you were with somebody. You know, you were with your mom and now that how has that changed? As it bedded your relationship, sometimes sometimes we aren’t meant to live with our parents, you know, and that clash especially, you know, when you’re as an adult, you know?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yeah. Well, she was the one that said, I need my space. So I wanted to Okay. That yeah. If she I wanted to honor her and acknowledge her and get her space, the space that she needed. And so, you know, I was ready. I was I was ready to make the move and everything I missed home this weekend, so I did go home and I got some long time. So I I really wanna say that our relationship has grown stronger since we’ve really been apart. Yeah. Mhmm.
Victoria Volk: Distance makes the heart grow fun or they say. Right?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yeah. It does.
Victoria Volk: Maybe it was something you didn’t I mean, do you look do you look back now, like, the time that you were with your mom, and then now the time that you’re are more on that you’re on your own? And have your own space, like, have you found that that you did too need it?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes, I have found that I’ve needed my space, you know. That’s all I ever knew. I mean, since we did take care of dad and and then afterwards, I mean, she was all I ever She’s all I ever knew. And I was just like, okay, time to cut the cord. And it’s been wonderful for us.
Victoria Volk: You know? Do you almost feel like because you both were caring for your dad? That you maybe there was a part of you that was finding it difficult to let go of caring for her, like, when your dad passed and then this tendency to wanna care for somebody else. You know, we can kinda replace that loss Right? You know this from the group differently. You know, if someone passes away, maybe we or moves or whatever, like my child started kindergarten, my last one, I got a dog. I replaced that loss. To put that love somewhere else. Right? That love and care somewhere else into something else? Do you feel like that’s kind of what you were trying to do after your dad passed and and caring for your mom and maybe too much? And she was like, wait. Wait a minute. You don’t need to do this.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yeah. I do feel like I was doing that. And I wanted to protect her, you know, I wanted to care for her, I wanted to protect her I didn’t wanna leave the house that, you know, I grew up in. I thought, you know, maybe Dad would come back and it was just, you know, being there for her. Like, I felt like I needed to be there for her, but she was the one saying, Okay. I gotta beep by myself. I gotta learn how to live by myself because this was my husband for, like, thirty five plus years.
Victoria Volk: Very true. And again, like, that’s a perspective. Maybe as you the grieber, aren’t really thinking, you know, it’s like I need to be there for her, but yet at the same time, you know, we often don’t think about the other person’s perspective or what it’s like their experience and their shoes. Like, no, I I need to learn what it’s like to be on my own because it was her first now it’s her first time too, really.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yeah. That is yeah. I mean, at our risk, I love her so much for saying that when she needed to. Like first, it was like You wanna get rid of me? But I think I’d go back to, you know, it kinda makes me think of when my dad did pass and everybody was telling me to, you know, go back to work right away and she gave me the space that I needed. I was like, mom, I can’t go back to work. Like, I need to grieve and she she was the one that just said, go to your aunt’s house. She has an empty room. Go. And And I don’t know why I connect those two, but I do.
It’s just like, you know, she gave me the space that I needed, and so I guess that’s why it connects. I’m giving her the space that she wants and needs. So, yeah.
Victoria Volk: I’m glad it’s been a beautiful experience for you both and that it’s ultimately brought you closer together. And I think that’s a beautiful thing because you very well could have been like heartbroken and sad that, you know, and maybe even resentful that she’s now kicking you out of the house in a way. You know, like, you could have taken it that way. Like, she’s kicking you out, but really, it was from a place of love and and her communicating her needs and that that’s I’m so glad that you were both honoring that for each other. That’s a beautiful thing.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes. She’s amazing.
Victoria Volk: Through the program though, you also work on another relationship. Mhmm. You know, it’s a twelve week program. So what was the other relationship that you worked on? And what would you like to share about that?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: The relationship that I worked on was with my sister, Caitlyn. And I chose that relationship because my sister and I have never had a really great bond, not sisterly, you know. It’s like we call each other or we text each other, but that’s about it. So I worked on it because I wanna grow closer to her. And right now, she has a baby. I’m a I’m an aunt. And so it was important for me to work on it to grow closer to her.
Victoria Volk: And how has that changed your relationship? Do you feel?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: It’s I mean, we talk more. I call her more. She calls me. She sends pictures of the baby. You know, she’s helped me with work a lot. I have a meeting coming up, so she’s helped me tweak some of my thought point my thinking points up. So I would say that the bond’s growing in a direction that I want you know, I saw her in September, her and the baby, and she just let me take charge of the baby. She was just like, you’re in charge of cleaning the diaper, go ahead, and he’s feeding. I was like, okay. And, I mean, I even saw her in mother mode. Like, I it was just amazing. Like, what she was doing. She she’s so detailed and so, you know, just loving with the baby. That detailed in, like, she knows what he eats. She wants to know how much he eats. And, you know, I just I love seeing in her in action and she’s she even called me and said that she knows I’ve been having some difficult times and she’s, you know, she’s here for me. So it’s grown stronger since I’ve worked on that relationship.
Victoria Volk: I love that for you. Because I know she was a huge advocate for you too even before you met me.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes. Yes. She was a huge advocate. And she was a huge advocate in in stating that I needed to get diagnosed with autism. You know, this is probably the first time that I’m actually saying something like this. But in the past, I was I was misdiagnosed with bipolar. And over medicated. And I felt like a robot in my entire life until until in my thirties, you know, I saw a different psychiatrist, and he went through everything with me. All the questionnaires, everything. And he was just like, yeah, I’m not seeing. What the other person is in.
Victoria Volk: How many years were you medicated for? Kermit’s diagnosis of bipolar, which is crazy to me.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yeah. Probably fifteen years.
Victoria Volk: Wow.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Until my thirties, like, when I was fifteen, you know, fifteen years.
Victoria Volk: When you started to question and your sister was kind of encouraging you. Is that kind of
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yeah. I started questioning probably in my late twenties because I kept on saying I’m a robot. I feel like I’m not in my body. Mhmm. And then I did see that. It was It was just an amazing person. You know, he heard me. I forgot his name right now, but thank you. And he just listened to me and he unchecked all the boxes of thigh fuller, and he said something else is going on. And then that’s when my sister in my thirties, I remember. She sent me a video of women being misdiagnosed and being misdiagnosed as bipolar, schizophrenia, a lot of different things. And then finally in their forties, late thirties being diagnosed with autism. And it just really hit me. It it hit me in a good and bad way. I was just like, what? I was like, no. This can’t be it. But then I was just like, maybe this these are the answers to why I had such a difficult time in school and why it was difficult for me to communicate with my parents. So Yeah, Adi, how are you – how are you
Victoria Volk: – I know you mentioned you had to have a therapist now, but how have you – does this therapist believe that you are on the spectrum? And then also how are you managing now your mental health and that in that way?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes. She does believe that around I am on the spectrum, and and she has given me she really doesn’t have that expertise. So what something new, Victoria? So on Friday, I believe that was October eighteenth. I actually got officially tested. Oh. So I don’t know the results, but We’ll see in, like, three weeks what the results are that I think I don’t need that validation. I know who I am, what my past was, how my childhood was, and even talking to my parents, the difficulties that I did have. It just validates what my sister has been advocating for me.
Victoria Volk: I’ve had other guests who have, you know, had questioned mental health diagnosis for many years and then received that diagnosis. And for some, it can it surprised them of how impactful it was. Then at the same time, it’s like, well, it doesn’t change anything. Right? Like, it doesn’t change my heart, it doesn’t change who I am, and you know, you’re still gonna be Delyla. Right? You’re still gonna be highly functioning. Right? I mean, you can you got your bachelor’s degree. You’re working in research and you’re living on your own, like, you can still have an amazing quality of life regardless of whatever diagnosis you have.
And I think that’s an inspiring thing for people to hear.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes. Thank you.
Victoria Volk: So I’m glad you shared about it here.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Thank you. Yes. I am too. Some of my coworkers do know, but not everybody. And I’m just, you know, My sister said it best. Embrace it. Don’t hide yourself because it is very tiring, you know, trying to just grow go with the crowd and everything, but I that I’m gonna change that perspective, you know. I’m Delilah. And like you said, nothing’s gonna change that.
Victoria Volk: How have you seen that as being a challenging thing for you though in in terms of in terms of relationships and connecting with people, how has it been challenging for you? What have you learned that can might be helpful to others?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yeah. Gosh. I guess, with friendship relationships. It’s been very challenging. I will trust the wrong people. Yeah. And I’ll give them a second or chance. And than that their chances enough. You know? And I trust a lot. And it’s really hard when that trust is broken. It it hurts. And so I’ve lost a lot of friendships. And, yeah, like, I lost a friendship over a misleading conversation that one of their friends said something differently that I was, like, hitting on them. And I was, like, I’m not hitting on you. Like but it was, like, my friend didn’t trust me. And I was like, can you give me the proof? Like, that I’m doing this? And they couldn’t. And I was just like, well, I I’m not doing what you’d think I’m doing. And after that, it was just a realization that, okay, we’ve been friends for two plus years. And this is gonna be the end of it because you can you don’t believe me and they went on their own way and I’ve gone on their own way. I It was hard, but I guess it was better that’s for the both of us. So within that, that friendships are really hard. Like I said, I
Victoria Volk: can’t for anybody. Yeah. And let’s be real.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Right.
Victoria Volk: Even as in your forties, which happy belated birthday, by the way, which was in September
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: though. Yeah.
Victoria Volk: It’s it’s no different. It’s like you still feel like the kid on the playground you know, that was traumatized because somebody said something and, you know, assassinated your character or made up rumors or lies and, you know, you know, you feel like this defensive little child on the inside, you know. Right. Yeah. It’s no different in your forties. I think that’s the, you know, mean girls, elementary school, become mean girls as adults. I mean, let’s be real.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes. I mean, they really do. And I guess now in my forties, I guess that’s when they say, you kinda know what you want and, you know, And I and I feel that. You know? I I do know what I want. I I think I’ve always known what I want, but it’s just like, you know, enough playing around. Like, if you’re gonna be my friend, like, This is how it’s gonna be, and I’m gonna have boundaries. And I do have those boundaries. So I have I have my coworkers, Ida and Adriah. They’re amazing girls, and we weren’t as co workers, but we’re friends as well. And like I said, they they’re just amazing. You know? And I believe that they’re a friendship that will last, and I would like it to last. It is very difficult to make friends.
Victoria Volk: But Especially in the new place. Right? New place, like, job, like, know, you like that kid on the playground again. Like, yes. And the the new kid at this, you know, that moved to town and
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: yes. Or the one I remember soccer. Like, I was a big soccer player on the field. And I was just like, I was one enough who’s gonna pick me. So, like, yeah, it’s just that whole thing over again. But I think that’s what just makes me, you know, grow grow. Yeah.
Victoria Volk: It’s like you you grow through your insecurities and putting yourself in uncomfortable positions, which is what you’ve done. And and I just wanna commend you because do you feel like before you went through the program. And I’m not saying doing the program was the only thing and the one thing that changed everything. I mean, it did for me, but that might not be true for you. What do you think is true for you though? The Delyla before do grief differently in the Delyla now?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: It is true that with doing grief differently. I had to go head on with the messiness. I literally had to be the lotus that grew in the mud. And before then, I wanted to escape. There’s still an inkling nummy that sometimes wants to escape, but like even today, I told my therapist I said I wanted October to be over, but then I embraced it. I was like October. I’m here. The Delyla before would shut the door on her parent and cry underneath her blanket and or maybe scream. Today, I’m doing grief differently. I’m embracing it.
Victoria Volk: I love how you threw that in. Because that’s what it’s called. Right? Let’s do this differently. Let’s do this differently. That’s the whole point. I’m just so happy for you that you’ve had this lowest moment in your life. This it’s a chapter that is going to unequivocally impact the rest of the chapters in your life.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Mhmm. What do
Victoria Volk: you look forward to most? Oh, gosh. What gives you hope for the future?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: What gives me hope is the work that I do. You know, I started out as a special education teacher, and I’ve always worked with students on the spectrum and various abilities. And now I’m embracing my own uniqueness. So I guess that just that was in itself knowing that it’s never too late to do something. That gives me hope for the future and just knowing that I have a lot of love to give and I know I can do hard things. That gives me hope for the future. I used to not like the word resilient, but I’m always hearing that from my mom. She’s just like you’re resilient to dilate. And you know, I am, but I can also be vulnerable. And vulnerability might get me in trouble a little, but or it just may scare me, but I think that’s what the world needs. Vulnerability. Love caring me. Yeah. Just life in general. I don’t know. I’m ready to have I’m just ready to enjoy life.
Victoria Volk: I wish I had a clip from our first session together in early twenty twenty three
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Mhmm.
Victoria Volk: And do a side by side. It’s like night and day.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: I know. It is
Victoria Volk: because I don’t record the sessions. And there’s a reason for that, but, you know, because it’s like, you know, for your privacy and all of that, I don’t record sessions. But I think one of the I don’t know if it was with you that I started it, were you write yourself a letter? Mhmm. Beginning.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yep.
Victoria Volk: Did we circle back to that at the end? I don’t think we called now. We didn’t.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: I know I wrote a letter to myself, but I’m not. We circled back to it.
Victoria Volk: I don’t think we did. And it’s it was just for you. Right? It was just for you, but I’m curious, do you remember anything from that? And and like Oh, no.
I I hate to put you on the spot.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: No. It’s fine. No. I I think
Victoria Volk: it’s like, do you feel like that letter you wrote? Resonates with the you now. I really do.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: You know, I I feel it does resonate, you know, with because I was so lost back then. And I wanted better for myself. So, you know, I’m going out of my comfort zone. And, you know, I I I told a guy that I liked them. And it didn’t like and didn’t go the way I was planning on doing it or how I wanted the outcome, but I did it. And that was my first time that I ever did that. So yeah. And I’m doing acrobatic stuff. So I wanna say that that letter was to enjoy life and do something different, which I did. You know, I I said goodbye to teaching and got a research job. So, yeah, all in all, I think that letter I’m living that letter. I’m living that letter to myself, and now I really wanna find that letter.
Victoria Volk: Yes. You should. It’s it’s like a time capsule. Right? Yes.
And it was with you that I started that. So every client now I have them do that because I think it sets the intention for who you who you want to be and where you want to be to twelve weeks following, you know? Yeah. And an aspect of the program too was you map where we look at your strengths and skills and values? And how has that what role did that play in you transitioning and finding this other role? And what you learned about yourself? That you didn’t, like, really it’s so easy for us to point out the great things in other people. Right? But to own what we bring to the table. And so how did that help you?
And that how did that part of the program help you?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: That program really helped me see that I am truly worthy of you know, something different, something challenging, you know. I’m a data abstractor, so I’m behind the computer, analyzing various things. And it was just like, I have to say when I went into the interview, I didn’t think I had any of the qualities, but I Victoria, doing that work with you, the values and made me realize that I had a lot of skills transferrable to from education to a research associate. So it just gave me the to, like, ace that interview and just be, like, Okay. I may have some weaknesses, but I can learn. Mhmm. And it has it has been a learning curve. I I wanna say that I may not be given a lot of tasks, but it’s because I’m still new at the job, so everybody’s trying to figure out figure me out and I get that. So I’m just I’m being there and I’m being a helper. I’m being I’m being honest. I’m being open. And I’m saying, you know, these are the skills that I have. This is what I need to work on. And, yeah,
Victoria Volk: I just pulled up your u map because I wanted to to just share with listeners. And you and just a reminder to you, your top five strengths are adaptability. Like, whoa. You’ve totally been doing that. Right? Deliberative. Which isn’t executing strength. So adaptability is a relating strength. Deliberative isn’t executing strength. And so you take serious care in making decisions or choices.
You anticipate obstacles. So that’s a great quality to have. Mhmm. A great strength to have. And then you have two thinking things, intellect and input, which are wonderful for what the job that you’re doing. Right?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yeah.
Victoria Volk: And then developer is your final one, and that’s a relating strength. And you recognize and cultivate the potential in others, which is great for team building and working as a unit with other people. And also the adaptability piece in relating to other people. Recognizing that, you know, your strengths may not be the same aren’t not gonna be the same as other peoples. And so adapting to the strengths that other people bring as well. Right. And I love I’m just looking at your top values too. Authenticity and adventure. Mhmm. Community, boldness, compassion, trust, respect, leadership, determination, balance. And you have a lot of the your most preferred skills. I see in what you’re doing assess, observe, research study.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yeah. What?
Victoria Volk: Yeah. Speed others, initiate change. Yeah. Collaborate. It just seems like a lot of what and and you’re the doer and the helper. It’s getting the job done, but in community with other people. Right. And I’m so happy for you that you found a nurturing environment in order for you to grow in as well. Thank you. I’m so happy for you.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: That’s good. Thank you.
Victoria Volk: I just wanted to share with people listening that this is how your grief differently. The impact it can have on someone’s life is we don’t just look at the grief itself. It’s not all sad and gloom, doom and gloom. Right? Like, it is because it has to be. We have to look at the past because it’s influencing and impacting your future in your present day. You would agree with that. Correct? I will It was impacting your life tremendously.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes.
Victoria Volk: So you have to look at it. And work through it. And now, like, today, you took today off, you’re honoring your energy, you’re honoring any sadness that comes up for you because even going through the program, you’re still gonna feel sad. Right?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: That’s yep. It never stops.
Victoria Volk: But the difference now is, can you articulate now for listeners how that how that is different today than it was before you did this program? That exactly, like that pain that you felt Yeah. What that would do to you? And now what happens? Like, today instead?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Oh, today or before the sadness would overcome me. I wouldn’t wanna get out of bed. I would I basically wanna just shut the world out.
Victoria Volk: How’d you feel physically?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Tired, exhausted, mad at the world.
Victoria Volk: Probably not ready to go on a bike ride.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Oh, yeah. Never. Yes. I I definitely put on you know, physically, I was putting on weight, and then it was not only affecting me, but it was affecting my mom. Again, we were living together. So me being mopee around the house or not coming out of the room affected her, and then she was worried about me. So she couldn’t do her own grieving. So that’s back then. Now, I’m living on my own. I am I honor him in different ways. Like, I’ll take his ashes and we’ll go on a bike ride and I’ll spread him somewhere that I really enjoy. Now, I can talk about it. I don’t. I’m not so depressed. You know? It doesn’t it doesn’t feel so heavy on my heart anymore. Like I felt I’ve really felt Victoria that I felt so heavy. Like, I was I consumed all this stuff that I couldn’t communicate, but I can communicate about it now, whether it be journaling or to my mom, I’ll call my mom, and I’ll just be like, this is how it is, or I’ll call my sister, or I’ll talk to my coworkers, my very close coworkers. So now it’s I can talk about it and it doesn’t weigh so heavy on me. And I have this, I guess, more light in my in my face.
I mean, I guess if you were to see me back then versus now, like, I definitely can tell that there’s, like, a different energy going on.
Victoria Volk: You’re permeating. You know what I mean? It’s grief is energy, joy is energy too. Right? And so if we’re feeling that heaviness within ourselves.
That’s what we are projecting. That’s why you said your that’s why your mom was feeling that too and and she couldn’t grieve because of course she’s your mom and she I mean, that was a perspective that I don’t you didn’t draw that connection. When you were going through the program with me, like, that wasn’t even something you were considering.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Right?
Victoria Volk: And so it’s like now she can breathe maybe. A little bit, you know you know, because now she can focus on herself and her grief.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Right?
Victoria Volk: And you can work on thriving. Yes.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes.
Victoria Volk: Which it seems like you’re doing. So I’m so happy for you. That’s exciting. I love the Delilah that has now been expressed that was always there. Right? Like, this Delilah was always
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: there. It
Victoria Volk: was just you know, like I said, it’s like a veil that you wear. Right?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: You
Victoria Volk: know, you can’t see yourself clearly, so you don’t see others clearly.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Mhmm.
Victoria Volk: And now that you’ve worked through all that stuff, you can look at your mom and you can see the impact that that was having on her. You see things more clearly?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes.
Victoria Volk: And you see what you bring to the table in relationships, and what you need in response to others in connection with you.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Mhmm. Yes.
Victoria Volk: And you have the language?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes. I do. I do have the language. I it’s it’s amazing, you know. And I You know, I still do the work every single day.
It never stops.
Victoria Volk: And as soon as that was my next step, I was gonna segue into that.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: No. I mean, Victoria, I think you said it as like it never stops. He continued to do the work. And so I do do the work. I see a therapist every other week, sometimes weekly, and I’m the one that voices it. I’m like, I need to see you next week. Can we can we open this face up? And she’s always been grateful to do that. So, yes, it’s always doing the work. I may have a hiccup, you know, go back to, well, what about this? Or what if this? You know, maybe with my dad. While he was in the hospital, but then I’m just like, okay, do I want this has happened, you know, do some journaling, or maybe write a poem about it, and I do. And then I think about how he’s not in suffering anymore, how he’s not in pain, and how I’m not in pain anymore. I mean, I know pain will always come back in some aspect that it doesn’t weigh so heavy, so much on me where I just shut the world out.
Victoria Volk: Sadness and pain are very different. Right? And that’s what I said. You’re still gonna feel sad today. Of course, it’s not gonna be pain, settings from the pain. Yeah. Yeah.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yeah. That isn’t. So yeah.
Victoria Volk: What would you tell people who are not sure what to do. I mean, because I you were that was you at at one point. Right? Like, you didn’t know what to do. Like, what what was the thing that told you? I I just gotta do this. Like, that kept that because people can come up with all kinds of excuses. Right? I don’t have the time. I don’t have the money. I don’t have the mental bandwidth. I got so much going on. I’ve got kids. I gotta do this. I gotta do that. We don’t make the time for yourselves. What was the thing that helped you to just make that decision to invest in yourself and do this?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: I think it was me and my mom how much of an impact I was, like, my depression and everything was impacting her and just being so closed off and wanting to sleep. So, like, I think it was just everything. Like, the the sleeping, the crying. I was just tired of it because it was even making me more tired. I was like, when is this gonna stop? And just the thoughts of, like, it should have been me instead of him. Because I remember saying if I could have given my heart to him, I would, you know. But it was, like, I want to say it was that moment that I was like, I need to find somebody. I need to find some help. I I need a wrap my head around this. I need somebody to guide me because I don’t know what I’m doing. And if I went if an eye and if I kept on going down that hole, it would have been bad. But, I mean, I’m so grateful that I found do grief differently. And I was given the tools to help me, myself, and my family. Because again, Victoria, I think you said it best. Like, I didn’t realize how much it was impacting my family until now I think about it, I reflect, and it was.
Victoria Volk: What would you say to somebody who’s sitting across from you a friend and they’re considering this? What would you say to them?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Do it. Do it. It’s worth it. You’ll learn a lot about yourself. You’ll break down some barriers.
Don’t cry. You’ll get angry. But all of those emotions and feelings are validated. And I, you know, if it was a close friend sitting right next to me, I would be there. I would tell them I’m holding your hand throughout the entire way. I’m gonna be here for you. So if it’s for anybody, like, Zoom people, I’ll be here for you. You know? Yeah. Just do it.
You’ll see
Victoria Volk: if there was? Yes. If there was anything you could have changed about the program or anything that was missing, what would you say?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Oh gosh. I I really feel like the program was just great. Everything was great. I do I do love the addition to the letter to yourself. So keep on doing that. No. I I wouldn’t change anything. I I loved it. It helped me. So
Victoria Volk: Yeah. And these questions were not rehearsed by the way. Yeah. I did not send you these questions. So No. He did it. I wanted the true honest, you know, response in the moment. So thank you so much for sharing. And, again, I know what it did for me. I know what it’s done for you. I know what it’s done with the countless people who have gone through it. And so I I appreciate you so much for sharing your story of the Delilah before and the Delilah now. And I’m I love this is what I love. It’s transformative. And this is You are a perfect example of of how it transformed your life. What you put in the work? I give you the credit. The credit doesn’t go to me. Sure. I resuscitated it. I held your hand, but you did the work. And everyone who goes through the program, they do the work. And it’s it might seem cookie cutter. Right? Like, your friend, if you have a friend that would go through it, they’d go through this exact same process you did. But It’s different because it’s your unique story. It’s your unique grief. It’s your unique process that you’re taking yourself through. And that’s why it’s not cookie cutter.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes. It doesn’t. Every thought story is different. Definitely.
Victoria Volk: Is there anything else that you would like to share that you didn’t feel you got to?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: I just I wanna say, Vivek, thanks to my mom, my mom, Olga Boyer, just for you know, be in there. She’s always been there. And I know she will. Just and I I think everyone on this journey It’s been a journey. There’s been ups and downs, but I am holding to the ups. And I know there will be some downs sometimes, but like my mom said, I’m resilient and I will continue to do my work, my advocacy work, my research, I’m a big researcher. And, you know, in the future, I hope to continue my political advocacy work was special special education children because those children are very deeply connected to me even though teachers out there. So even though I’m not a teacher anymore, I always think about my teachers. So, yeah. Thank you.
Victoria Volk: And thank you for the work that you do in your advocacy work and for to be in the voice for those children. The future children that I have no doubt that you are going to advocate for. So thank you so much for being the light in this world that is so needed too.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Thank you, Victoria.
Victoria Volk: And I have one final question. Yes. What has your grief taught you?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: My grief has taught me. That it’s my grief. It’s nobody else’s. I can sweep you off your feet whenever whenever you at least expect it to,
Victoria Volk: and not in a romantic way.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Exactly. Not in a romantic way. It is I can sweep you off your feet where you’ll get stuck in the mud again. But I can’t wanna say that I just sit there with it. And I’m just like, okay. Let’s do this. Let’s okay. I’m feeling some crying. Let’s do this grief. Let’s do this together. And why are we doing this? Oh, because something, you know, because that memory of dad came up, you know? Or, you know, you were vulnerable. So Okay. And it didn’t turn out the way you wanted it too. Let’s just sit with it. So it’s it’s taught me not to bury it because if you bury it, it just gets worse.
Victoria Volk: What is the lesson your dad taught you that comes to your mind, you know, daughters and their dads, you know,
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Oh gosh. I wanna say when he decided to take the morphine, he did it himself. He made that decision. And he asked us each one. Or he told me he was like, don’t be mad if I do this. I was just like, why would I be mad? You know? You’re in so much pain. I don’t want that from you. Do I want to be selfish and happy forever? Yes. But he taught me me, bravery, he taught me how to be courageous. The many times that I was with him in the hospital. He taught me even on his less thigh and breath. You know, I my whole family just stood there around him. That death is a part of life and that he did it when he needed to go. So he taught me love and compassion even those last seconds when we were just there. Those last minutes, hours. You know? He he taught me breath free even though I was crying my eyes out and everything. And he taught me that he’ll never leave me even though he’s not physically here, that he’s guiding me along the way. So, yeah, he he taught me a lot.
Victoria Volk: What’s your favorite memory of him if you have one?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: There’s so many. But I guess one that really pops out right now is he was a stickler for just getting me to school. Like, he wanted me to have perfect attendance throughout the entire elementary school year. So it was raining and the rainwater was up to his knees. So his car stalled. And what he ended up doing is he was determined again to get me to school. So he put me on his shoulders. And he walked me, like, maybe, two blocks just to school, just to get me to school. And he did, you know, he was all wet. He was trrenched. And I don’t know why that memory popped up, but it was just like him being determined. Like, you’re getting to school.
Victoria Volk: This summer hell or high water.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes. Exactly that. Come home or high water he has. And so, yeah, that memory just pops up, I guess, as well because it’s he was determined and he he always knew I was determined. So and somebody can say no, but you keep on going or, you know, you just keep on paddling, whatever it takes.
Victoria Volk: And never miss school. There’s no excuse. Like, you get your degree, you get it done, you do it. Yes.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes. So much. Yes. Mhmm.
Victoria Volk: There’s a lot of lessons in that. One one event. Right? Yes. Oh, that’s a great memory.
Thank you for sharing.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Thank you. I wish you
Victoria Volk: a beautiful rest of your day of honoring your dad and honoring your your grief and the sadness. However, it comes up and I hope this expression of your love for him has helped you feel connected to him today and feel a little lighter Yeah. And to be an advocate for other grovers that there is hope There is hope.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: There is. So thank
Victoria Volk: you so much for your time today.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Thank you, Victoria.
Victoria Volk: And if anyone wants to connect with you, how can they find you? Are you on social?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes. Social. I have a LinkedIn at Deliloh Avaya Boyer. You can find me there. I do have an Instagram delightful Deliloh.
Yeah. And I have a Facebook Deliloh Avaya Boyer. So yeah.
Victoria Volk: I will link to those in the show notes if anyone wants to connect with you. Maybe there’s some collaboration as far as children with special needs.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes.
Victoria Volk: See work? Things like that, maybe opportunities that can flood your way to, like, padalila?
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Yes. I I am working on some cohorts right now, so political advocacy cohorts. So, yes, anything. Oh, thank you.
Victoria Volk: I’m happy to share that in the show notes. So thank you so much for your time again today, Delyla.
Delyla Ovalle-Bowyer: Thank you, Victoria.
Victoria Volk: And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Grieving Voices Podcast, season 5 |
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Dive into the depths of grief, joy, and the paradox of emotions with Yvonne Caputo on Grieving Voices this week. From personal tales to professional insights, learn how attentive listening can transform relationships and provide peace in life’s transitions.
Yvonne reflects on personally challenging life transitions that led her to therapy as she grappled with feelings of loss. Her journey emphasizes not just the grand losses but also those smaller ones that cumulatively shape our lives.
Episode Highlights:
The Paradox of Emotions: Yvonne talks about containing paradoxes—how we can experience joy in sorrow, teaching us valuable lessons about mental health and resilience.
Storytelling & Healing: Listen to how conversations with her father about his WWII experiences helped unearth latent PTSD and transformed their relationship by simply offering an attentive ear.
End-of-Life Wishes: Discover why discussing end-of-life preferences is crucial as Caputo recounts honoring her father’s wishes for a peaceful passing versus the traumatic hospital death of her mother without known wishes.
Therapeutic Practices: Learn from Caputo’s approach to providing comfort in therapy—validating experiences without judgment—and its impact on elderly individuals in caregiving settings.
From dealing with personal loss to facilitating meaningful dialogues around mortality, this episode is a testament to the healing power of being heard.
RESOURCES:
CONNECT:
_______
NEED HELP?
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
- Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor
If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses.
Exploring Grief and Connection: Yvonne Caputo on Therapeutic Listening
In the latest episode of Grieving Voices, we dive deep into a heartfelt conversation with psychotherapist and author Yvonne Caputo. She shares her profound insights on grief, loss, and the magic woven through truly listening to one another’s stories.
Caputo reflects on personally challenging life transitions that led her to therapy as she grappled with feelings of loss. Her journey emphasizes not just the grand losses but also those smaller ones that cumulatively shape our lives.
🔹 The Paradox of Emotions: Yvonne talks about containing paradoxes—how we can experience joy in sorrow, teaching us valuable lessons about mental health and resilience.
🔸 Storytelling & Healing: Listen to how conversations with her father about his WWII experiences helped unearth latent PTSD and transformed their relationship by simply offering an attentive ear.
🔹 End-of-Life Wishes: Discover why discussing end-of-life preferences is crucial as Caputo recounts honoring her father’s wishes for a peaceful passing versus the traumatic hospital death of her mother without known wishes.
🔸 Therapeutic Practices: Learn from Caputo’s approach to providing comfort in therapy—validating experiences without judgment—and its impact on elderly individuals in caregiving settings.
✨ From dealing with personal loss to facilitating meaningful dialogues around mortality, this episode is a testament to the healing power of being heard. Join us for these powerful narratives that highlight compassion, understanding family dynamics, preparing for end-of-life moments, and embracing active grieving processes for growth and peace. 🕊️
Don’t miss out on this enriching discussion filled with practical advice (like using resources such as 5wishes.org) that might just change your perspective on life’s most difficult challenges!
Episode Transcription:
Victoria Volk: Hey. Hey. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of grieving voices. Unless this is your first time listening, thank you for joining us. And thank you or being here. Today, my guest is Yvonne Caputo. She is a psychotherapist, corporate trainer, consultant, and she has been a teacher and the head of a human resource department in a retirement community. She has a master’s degree in education and clinical psychology. She is the author of Flying With Dad, a daughter, a father, and the hidden gifts and his stories from World War two, and Dine With Dad tough talks for easier endings. Thank you so much for being here. And when I was looking through your laundry list of lost which I think if we all just took stock and wrote down really all of the stuff that we’ve been through, that life is thrown at us, whether from childhood or dog, you know, or first pet dying or having to move once, twice, three, four times, losing friendships in that process as adults, moving and having to change communities. And, you know, it’s I mean, just you become ingrained in where you live. Right? Like, these relationships become ever of your life, the UPS man, the mail man, the your delivery people, you get to know these people. I’m just kinda going off a tangent here, but If we think about how many losses we really have in life, I think we would be kinda shocked. Most of us. I mean, I I’ve I’ve done that, and I was shocked But, you know, I think it’s good from time to time to really take stock of the things that have happened to us that have shaped us. And so, what are the losses that have shaped you? And the work that you’re doing.
Yvonne Caputo: It it’s interesting you started out the way you did because it brought up something. That I sort of forgotten. And that’s that in nineteen eighty nine, I met and married this wonderful man. That’s not a loss, but he had two children from a previous marriage that he was committing to living near. So I, without thinking much about it, knew that I was going to be leaving the city that I loved leaving a job that I loved, leaving friends that I loved, and moving into this unknown world, and then when I got to Southeastern Pennsylvania.
I couldn’t find a teaching physician. So all of those things combined I remember thinking if I’m not okay in two years, with all of these changes and losses, then I’ll go back to therapy. I was in therapy at six months. Because, you know, as you said, leaving a town that I’ve been in for twenty years, leaving a kinds of friends leaving those connections. It was Erie, Pennsylvania, and it’s one of the most beautiful places in the world. It has a pen insulin that’s thirteen and a half grams around that I used to ride every day after I would leave my teaching position. So there were lots of losses. Becoming a step parent, becoming a parent for the first time. You know, to a nine and seven year old. So it was it was a mixed bag.
It was one of the best things are ever done. We celebrated our thirty fifth wedding anniversary yesterday. But yes, there were lots of losses. In that celebration.
Victoria Volk: Well, happy anniversary.
Yvonne Caputo: Thank you.
Victoria Volk: Exactly. Like, that’s the perfect example of these things that people generally forget about. Right? Like, we just don’t it it’s like, well, it wasn’t traumatic or you know, we we have this we tend to have this hierarchy or compare. And, you know, I shouldn’t be sad about this. This should be a great time, but yet it’s the both and
Yvonne Caputo: Mhmm. Can
Victoria Volk: be incredibly excited about something but incredibly sad and melancholy and grieving. Two, we can do we can hold both of those things at the same time.
Yvonne Caputo: I use this phrase with my clients. A lot, but I also use it generally in life. Sound mental health is the ability to contain the paradox. You can, you can’t, you will, and you won’t, it isn’t, it isn’t. So sadness and joy can be together in the same bubble. And knowing that I think is extremely soothing, you know, to be able to say, okay, I can be sad about this. And at the same time, I can experience joy the joy that goes with it. But you’re right. That was not something I was taught in grade school, nor was I, you know, taught in high school or college. It was only later in life that I heard that statement from a psychologist and I went, oh, wow. Boy does that say it all? And when I think about it containing the paradox, What’s a good synonym for contained? Mhmm. There really isn’t one. You know, it it it really is what it is. It’s it’s that it’s right there at the same time. Two things. So you’re absolutely right. We can hold joy and we can hold sadness at the same time.
Victoria Volk: You said hold in and I was actually thinking holding, like, just holding both of those emotions, like, contained in holding. But at the same time, it’s, like, it has to go somewhere. Right? The grief has to go somewhere. Even the joy has to go somewhere. Right? Like, we can’t it’s like, you know, if you are so grateful for somebody and you really let’s say, I mean, withholding our pain and our grief can have the same effect of holding our joy and our appreciation and our gratitude for people. Right? Like, there is a suffering that happens in that too. Right? Because I think I don’t know if I’m getting my I’m not getting my point across here. What I’m trying to say, but the energy has to go somewhere. Right? And so either the energy of joy or the energy of sorrow, like containing it does something to our bodies. You know, we can manifest symptoms. And if we don’t speak it or don’t share it or if we do, will it be received the right way? Or will it, you know, we can have these expectations of, if we say something to somebody that’s positive, will they have the response we want? You know what I mean? Like, there’s just that’s getting into, like, really deepen the weeds of relationships and communication and all of that. But I’m not sure I’m get getting my point across here, but Maybe you
Yvonne Caputo: There are two things that I think of when you say that. And that’s for any of us when we’re hearing somebody who is in sorrow or who is in joy. To listen Mhmm. To just listen. And, you know, nod heads or say aha or even tell me more, you know, to invite that person to continue on that path that they’re on because Absolutely. They need to explore it. They need to explain it. They need to have somebody who’s going to who is going to validate it just by listening. The second thing that I think of is this. When my father died, I was with him. And his dying wish was to be taken feet first out of his own home. Which meant he was gonna be on a gurney. And that’s exactly what happened. And when the EMTs put the gurney down behind the ambulance and the ambulance doors were open. And I saw the look on my father’s face. I went Yes. And the EMTs looked at me like I lost every marble I might have had. But what joy was coming out of me was the soft sweet smile on my dad’s face. Because he and I had had intimate talks about death and dying. And I knew exactly what he wanted. And when I saw that the end was coming, being with him at home, the EMT’s working on him, I knew what had to do. I picked up the phone, I called the hospital, I said, you know, so do not resuscitate water on dad’s chart. They’re bringing him in. Please make sure it’s at the emergency room when they come. Now that’s not the first time of his own home. But Grace was with me in that the emergency room doctor called and said, you can stop working on it. So I laid down beside my father. I told him that I loved him. I told him that he was gonna be with my mother, which is part of our conversation. He saw mister. And then I did what we always did in our family, the glue, I said the Lawrence prayer in his ear. And he was gone. So that joy did get expressed And it’s hard for people to understand that I continue to feel that profound sacred joy when I think about my dad’s death because he and I worked so closely on how he wanted it to be.
Victoria Volk: That’s beautiful. You are on the same team. Like, you were his cheerleader, you were his advocate. And I think so many people don’t get that opportunity, first of all, don’t maybe have that safe person that they trust. Maybe, you know, to follow through. Right? When because we’re taught how to acquire things and people people not what to do when we lose them. So what got you to that point to be able to be able to let go and not hold this grip and not let your ego get in the way.
Yvonne Caputo: My entire career from the time I graduated from college, feels like preparation for that journey.
Victoria Volk: You
Yvonne Caputo: know, being the teacher, being the psychotherapist, particularly working in the retirement community. As a member of the executive team, I sat on the ethics committee. And we had a case where a woman with severely tameshia could no longer communicate at all, developed an abscess on her foot, and the doctor in charge said, local bass and antibiotics. The daughter trying to be her mother’s advocate said, no. Mom’s advance directive, the document which gives legal power to somebody to speak if you can’t speak for yourself. Said quality of quality of life. And the daughter didn’t feel like antibiotic, cerebral palsy would equality of life that it was really time to let her mother go. The problem was that the quality that quality of life was recognized in our state. And so the case ended up going to court, a surrogate was provided to allow for the BaaS any antibiotic and then should that not help and an amputation be needed, the god the daughter could step in and say no. I’m sitting here on this case and I’m thinking about my dad and I’m like, whoa. Does he have an advanced directive? What is that? How do I go about getting one of that? One of them. So I did some research. Social workers are very helpful. And I called dad, and I said, I know you have a will, but do you have an advanced directive? What’s that? So I explained it. And he said, oh, no. He said, I never never thought about doing anything like that. And I said, well, okay, Dan. If I find an attorney and I come home, Would you be willing to sit and get it done? And he said, sure. So here I went to the attorney’s office and he made me, his healthcare, his legal, medical power of attorney. And so I felt pretty good about that until one of the vice presidents came back from a leading age conference. And this is conference that does everything about retirement communities. And she had this document called the five wishes. And she was just so excited about what this document did. And I asked her if I could borrow it. She said, sure, return that bar. It laid on my desk for a long time, and my desk was pretty messy. So one Friday night, I decided I needed to clean off my desk so that the housekeeping people would clean it because they wouldn’t touch it. If it was the way I kept it. And I pulled out the five wishes and started to read and I went, oh, by. This takes an advanced directive to places I never dreamed or possible. How comfortable do you want to be? What do you want your children to know? What do you feel best about in your life? And very simply laid out, the questions were all there. If dad if I was gonna do this with dad and dad said, no, I don’t want that. No, I don’t want that. All I had to do is cross a line. And I took the document. I wrote one for myself and I took the document and drove home to see that kind of quaking because my father get angry quickly. So I wasn’t quite sure what I was gonna meet when here I was taking in something that was similar to something he’d already done, but he was in just the right frame of mind. He towing his legs over the hospital bed. That’s where he was again. He was a broken diabetic. Pat in the seat. I sat down in the warmth of him. And we went over the five wishes. Question by question by line. Do you want your organs to be given after you die. That’s one of the questions. Dad said, hell no. He said, I can’t imagine anybody would wanna probably in Rack and Rowan. Do you want what do you want for your funeral? Well, he said my husband was gonna say because he’s got a glorious tender voice. He named exactly what songs he wanted in the funeral. He said, I want you children and grandchildren to do the readings, but you choose. You know what we’ll speak to you. And so on and on, he goes, and I’m writing these kinds of things down. And at the end of getting it done, I just reached for his hand, and once again, it was the Lord’s prayer. And it was one of the most intimate beautiful transcending experiences I’ve ever had in my life. So when the time came, I knew what dad wanted, and I went into automatic pilot. He had trusted me with the advanced directive and he had trusted me and named me on the five wishes. And there was no way in the world that I was not gonna honor. What he asked me to do. So for your audience in grieving voices, for me, do I miss my dad? Oh, absolutely. Would I like to cook one more pot roast dinner for him? Absolutely. Are there questions I have for him about world war two and other things that he did? Absolutely. Can I mail into tears and he’s been gone fourteen years now? Absolutely. But also in there is this profound, sacred joy that will make me just smile. Because of dad’s trust in me, that gift he gave me and the gift I gave him in return.
Victoria Volk: Were you an only child?
Yvonne Caputo: No. I remember
Victoria Volk: how did that work with communicating to the siblings and did they were they all on board with everything as well?
Yvonne Caputo: They were on board. My sister said she probably couldn’t have done it. To backtrack, there’s another story. One of the sorrows that I have, one of the things that I still grieve is my mother’s dementia. She went from being one of the most gifted women I’ve ever known. Intellectually, socially, spiritually. And to see her, not know what she did five minutes ago. It was heartbreaking. So we had some things we needed to do when she had surgery for colon cancer. And my brother and sister and I or a team. And my older brother said, okay, Yvonne, you take care of the psychological piece. You know that. Connie, you take care of some of the medical pieces, and I can take care of these. So we kind of divvied up the the the responsibilities so that when the time came, you know, it was me. It was me that then did what I needed to do. And the result of what that was is they were both pleased. They missed the fact that they weren’t with dad, but they were pleased that he had somebody with him. And that I stepped in and and did what he asked me to do.
Victoria Volk: You think it was the contrast of that experience with your mother that really kind of propelled you to curate a different experience with your dad?
Yvonne Caputo: Absolutely. Absolutely. My mother died in the hospital, in the sterile and god bless hospitals for what they do. I mean, I I wanna say that, but in this sterile atmosphere, and I called her on the phone. We’re six and a half hours apart by driving. And she started screaming. You’ve gone get me out of here. You’ve gone get me out of here. I don’t want to be here. You’ve gone get me out of here. It was so bad. That the nurse came in and took the receiver from her and talked to me and said, I’ll get it quieted down. I’m gonna hang up. That was the last conversation I had with my mother. And when she died, I was so angry. I was angry that she died in the hospital. I was angry that she died without somebody beside her. And you’re right. It propelled me in a way Mhmm. To think about that doing something with that differently. So in this case, grieving can be the voice that you need to hear or the need that you need to respond to. In order to do something that needs to be done?
Victoria Volk: You had kinda touched on. I just kinda wanna back pedal a little bit, and we’re gonna kinda jump around here a little bit, but you had touched on your dad’s anger. And, you know, I’m a veteran too, and so I have a really soft spot for veterans and, I mean, World War two is the greatest generation. Right? What was your experience growing up? With that relationship with anger? And what were you taught about grief growing up?
Yvonne Caputo: The anger was always just below the surface. So I remember it being a teenager asking for thirty five cents so I could go to the Saturday evening high school dance. And my dad just flipped. Gave me the thirty five cents but it was it was painful because he was so angry. That was there a lot. The other part is if I were if I was in tears over something, and I was I’m hypersensitive. I there’s a technical term for it. And if I was in tears, I was told to go into my room until I could get myself settled. There was no warmth through or come here, honey, what what’s the matter? Tell me about. There was none of that. So I didn’t learn what to do with my emotions. Until I went into therapy. And that was me to late twenties when I just looked at my life and said it’s not working. I’m doing the same things over and over again and I’m getting the same results. So I got into therapy where I finally learned what those childhood experiences meant, what they taught me to do, and how I could do things differently. But what changed my relationship with my father was world war two. Because one, evening in two thousand and eight. He and I were on the phone. And we do blood tests and dialysis treatments and doctor and send the people across the street who were giving them in home care, and then we’d stall for anything to talk about. I’m not a sports fan. You know, my brother and sister had sports and dad and they could just go on and on and on about that kind of thing. But wasn’t wasn’t in my backpack, but dad opened up and told me your World War two story, quirky, funny off the wall about of all things losing their third engine which had the hydraulics and making an emergency landing in free Belgium. And I, as a history book, said to my dad, let me get a pencil and paper. I wanna take notes. What the hell do you wanna do that? So how it came about Victoria, I don’t know, but the next phone call I said, tell me more. And the story’s just started rolling. My taking notes, my asking TAM questions, my listening to the stories, changed our relationship deeply. He began to trust me and opened up to me in ways that I never dreamt possible growing up as a kid. I say frequently through dad’s stories, I got the father knows who wanted. He got the daughter, he didn’t know he had. And I was in my sixties when all this happened. So that’s all a part of this, you know, grieving that in my sixties, I learned something about listening. About opportunities to listen. Now, of course, I did that as a therapist and why it didn’t occur to me to do it my own father. I don’t know. But he didn’t. What came out of that for me was the deep understanding of where my dad’s anger came from. It was PTSD. He went into the war because he wanted to fly. That was his main that was it. He wouldn’t have had to have gone. He had a presidential deferment that would have kept him home because he repaired airplanes. He repaired the airplanes that young testing pilots in in dad’s words busted off. So here’s a guy who watched a fly, e ends up in England as a navigator on b24s, watching playing after playing after playing, explode in the sky because it hit flexed or it was tracked by a German jet. And he came home with that. But he told me at some point when we were doing all of this talking, said when I came home, and everybody seemed to be fine. I walked around Meville, my hometown, and saw guys that I knew were that were in the service, and they seemed to be just fine. So I wanted to know what was wrong with me. He had a recurring nightmare that lasted for three years. He had a flashback sixty years after the war, none of which he understood. So part of the closeness that came for Dad and I was when those kinds of things came up in our conversation because of my background, I could explain what they were and why they happened. And that it was a normal thing to experience when you have witnessed such abnormality. So that that talks about the anger and where it came from when I was a child and how dad and I navigated through it. Even to the point where the last phone call he had with me, he had been released from the hospital. I had said, To the social worker, he can go home when he’s ready. Well, he they sent him home, no pain medication. He was an agony. He called me on the phone, and he ripped into me. I’m holding the phone. Out here, you know, while he’s doing it. And I said to him, I said, dad, I said, I told him you could go home, when you are ready. Doesn’t sound like you are ready. Victoria, he apologized. He said, oh, honey, I’m so sorry. I yelled at you. I didn’t mean it. And I replied, dad, you were just venting. It’s okay. So the grace that came with this closeness that I developed with my father is I got an apology. When we talk about grieving, I do miss that relationship. The one that I that dad and I were able to get to before he died. I missed that.
Victoria Volk: I missed that for you. My dad my dad was a Vietnam vet. Oh, what I know now about energy work and grief and all of that, I think he just held it all in. And it killed him, and he died of colon cancer at forty four. And he slept with a knife under the mattress. So coming back to the greater message about this is becoming that safe space to listen and having the patience to listen. I think it takes patience too. Right? Especially in this Western world. Right? We’re just let’s go go go go go. I have an example that perfectly illustrates this. My my I have a daughter that is a waitress. And there was a retired gentleman that had come in and he was asking her questions, like, what are her interests and things like that, and she said she what are her favorite classes in school and she said math and and shop class. He heard shop class and She said for the next twenty minutes, he just shared his life story about woodworking and his love of cabinetry and all of these things. And he tipped her, you know, a small small modest tip, a general, like, ten percent, whatever. Typical tip but he she noticed he was still outside when she was getting off of work. And she comes outside to take off the open flag and he approaches her, and he said, hands are a hundred dollar bill. And he said, this is for your next shop project. And she was so ecstatic. And she told him, she’s I can’t take this. This is too much. She said, no. I wanna give it to you. This is for your next next shot project. And she came home and she was so excited and she shared with me and I was and I said to her, this is exactly what I said to her. I said, you gave him your time. You listened to his stories. That’s what that meant to him, I believe. Mhmm.
You had a shared interest, you were interested in hearing what he had to say, and he was excited to share. He gave him your time. He listened. So I just thought that was a great story to tie into this listening piece and giving people our time.
Yvonne Caputo: Well, that Same kind of listening happened very frequently to me when I was in the retirement community. My office was up on the third floor. And I want as the Human Resource Vice President. I want it by office away from the home of So if an employee wanted to come see me, they could do so, you know, discreetly. Because going to my office was like going to the principal’s office, you know. But my office was on the same wing as a lot of the residents. And I always had an open door, and they would come in and sit down And eventually for some, what was said is this. Yvonne, I just wanna go. I wanna be done. I wasn’t hearing suicidal ideation. I was hearing Well, let me finish by saying okay. My response was okay. Tell me more. My friends are gone. My partner’s gone. I’m in physical pain all the time. I’m not doing the things that I love to do. I’m just ready. And I would ask what’s your base perspective? Because when my mother said that very same thing to me a month before she died, I said the mom talked to God. You and God decide when it’s time. But that kind of listening was what was needed in those moments when the residents came in or when my mom said it. Tell me about it. So and it can be so helpful, particularly with people who are grieving. Tell me about it. What’s it like? And no interruptions and no commentaries And no Well, let me tell you about how I You just let them talk till they can’t till there’s nothing left to say. And that’s what you said earlier about, how do you get rid of it? Mhmm. How do you how do you put it out there? I was asked by Seventh Great Teachers to come and talk to their kids about therapy. And I said, to the teachers. Please have the kids write questions. What do they want to know? So I’m not up there blabbering about what I do. I’m addressing their concerns. I saved the best question for last, and it was I read the question and my story just bounced out of me. It was not anything I planned. I said to and if you can imagine a group of seventh graders. I said, have you ever had a vomit? Have you ever had a stomach that was just churning in ugly? And you try to hold it down and you try to hold it down. But there was a point at which you either got to the bathroom or you got to a waste basket because it was coming whether you wanted it or not. And it was gonna smell ugly and it was gonna taste ugly and it was gonna look gross. And I really went into the effect great film. I said, however, how did it feel once it was all over? And they all responded, it felt better. And I said, that’s what therapy is. Because the the person who asked the question was, if it’s so good for us, has come at heart so much. So it’s again that, you know, when dad told me the nightmare, the recurring nightmare, He was in the b twenty four. It was going down. He needed to get out. There was a place that he had to get through on his hands and knees. And on the sides of this kind of tunnel, little tunnel thing was all stainless steel. Any couldn’t grab onto anything. There was nothing to pull himself through. And he always woke up screaming, and mom would say, what is it like? And dad was out to the home. It’s just a bad dream. It was so bad at touring. He’d done channels in the mattress. Three years of those kinds of nightmares. So when we were talking about it, I explained the normality. Of nightmares given what he witnessed. And Sarcasm was an artful language in my family. So I ended the conversation with dad by just saying, Sorry, Hal. You’re just normal. But I literally could hear his shoulders drop. Knowing that what he had considered to be something wrong with him for all of those years was a normal response. To a traumatic event. And that’s central to my passion, okay, for talking to people particularly about death and dying. Having those conversations with my father were hard, hearing what he had to say was hard, knowing that we were talking about something that was going to happen was hard. But it created it was a part of the whole thing right there that created the closeness that he was he trusted me enough to open up to say, okay, in the end, this is what I want, and this is why I want it. So that’s another passion that I have. Is that My five wishes are done. My children have. My five wishes. We talk about the end for me and what I want and what I don’t want. Now, it’s been a while, so I recognize that I need to go back and do that document again. But I don’t want them to experience what I experienced with my mom. What did she want? How did she want it to be? What would have been better for her? Because it certainly wasn’t a good thing that she was in the hospital all by herself in that sterile atmosphere.
Victoria Volk: Well, in estimate, a different approach too. I mean, once someone has is suffering from dementia, it’s a little bit harder to do this, like, to prepare. Right? Because you don’t know what frame of mind they’re necessarily in. And if it’s an honest depiction of really what they want, maybe, is that accurate or, like Yeah. Like, what is your advice, I guess, for listeners who, well, I guess, take care of it as soon as possible before this before dementia is even a thing. But What would you what would be your advice for that?
Yvonne Caputo: My advice is no matter what the age. No matter what your age is, get the documents, get them done, put them in a safe place. And broach the subject with your children. If it’s an older person, broach the subject with your children, children You ask your parents. You know, when the end comes, mom, what do you want? How would you like it to be? Oh, honey, I I don’t think we should talk about that. Well, I’m gonna plant the seed, mom, because I’m gonna come back and ask you again. At some point because I want to be able to take care of you in the way that you weren’t taken care of. The five wishes w w w dot five wishes dot org, the document itself costs five dollars. You can do it online if you’d like, so you can, you know, use your typing and all that kind of stuff. And that stays for a year and a half. They keep that that for a year and a half. Also, in their store, they have a booklet. How to talk about it? How to bring it up. So they give guidance in that respect. Treat death and dying other than the elephant living room. You know, we we say, don’t we death and taxes? The only thing that we could be sure we’re in death and taxes. We’ll talk about the taxes. But we won’t talk about the death. I was lucky. I know that. It’s not always possible to die in the way that you would like. Because that happens. But if it is possible, yet made the grieving process for me so much easier. So much easier. Because I knew what dad wanted and I acted on what dad wanted and we talked about it, we would be on the phone. After the document was done. And he would just pipe up and say, oh, I want to go. I’d say, okay. Talk to me. Tell me. And then sometimes we would be on the phone and I would say, I haven’t heard you say you want to go. Well, things have been good, you’ve gone. I’ve been feeling pretty good and things gone along pretty well, so I guess I’m not ready now. So that’s the way, you know, that’s how easily it became for us to talk about it. As I said earlier, when I have the back of the heartbeat, you betcha. But equal to wanting him back on a heartbeat is the joy.
Victoria Volk: This is a reminder to me because I I’m a trained end of, like, do a thank you for that resource. I’m gonna actually add it to my website, but I have not asked my mom. And she’s gonna be eighty two. So it’s like, you know when I’m in it? I’m in it. I you know, and I haven’t done anything with that training since I received it. I didn’t know what that was gonna look like. I honestly, I still really don’t. It’s just a tool in my toolbox. And so what you’re talking about is, like, speaking my language. Right? Like, my my dad passed away in the nursing home. I know it’s not probably the way he wanted to go. And I know for sure that’s not how my mom wants to go. So that I do know. She’s made that very clear. But as far as these other things, I haven’t we haven’t had that conversation. And I think I get so wrapped up in my day to day and, like, the work that I do, like, I’m not asking the most important person, what do you want? You know? So this has been a very good reminder for me. To do so. So thank you for that gift today.
Yvonne Caputo: You’re welcome. And to spread it even a little further, My granddaughter was diagnosed in her senior year in high school with leukemia. She’s fine. She’s in her mission. Okay? She’s twenty three now and she’s doing very well. But she was the five wishes were were given to her at seventeen to fill out. And this was chalk in Los Angeles. Children’s Hospital of Los Angeles. They say it differently, choppies and Philadelphia. But I thought that that was pretty interesting. That the hospital would give her that document and ask her to complete it. Wow. Seventeen. So it’s made me very aware of dates. And folks that have there’s just some beautiful stories that go with dying with dad. One young person, like, to me, somebody in the forties as young, said, my parents have tried to talk to me about it. And I just said, no. No. It’s not gonna happen right now. We don’t have to worry about that. You know, it’s too soon. And it flipped for her. She said, yeah, we have to talk about it now. And then there was an elderly gentleman who steadfast daughters. My five wishes are done. On my birthday, I wanna do a zoo, and I wanna talk about it. I want you to know what I want. That’s my birthday present. I don’t know anything else. I don’t want any goodies. Just I wanna talk about it. So they got to the part of did you want to be buried or cremated? And he said, I want to be cremated. So the question is, dad, what do you want us to do with your ashes? They said, oh, I don’t care. Do whatever is easy. And that was his persona. You know? Don’t put your side. Well, just do leasing. And he said, just throw a moment of breath. And they said, wait a minute, dad. Wouldn’t you like to have your ashes? Taken to the prairies in Canada where you grew up. In that one room house, He said, well, that’s too much work. Well, wait a minute, dad. What if that’s something we’d like to do? For you? He said, okay, I’ll change that part of my five wishes. Give a take. The most profound was one of the women in my writing school who was acutely ill. Acuteal, years, surgeries, pain, disability. Not doing the job that she loved. And she got the five wishes and filled it out and then sat down and had hard her conversations with her kids and her husband. And I found out that she was going to hospice. She had made the decision no more searches. And what her husband did for us was set up fifteen minute calls on Zoom for her to talk to the women in a writer’s group. It only lasted eight minutes because she was so tired, but she just kept saying, Yvonne, thank you for the five wishes. I can’t tell you what it’s been. My family is in agreement. We’re all talking about the same things. They know I’m ready it’s okay. And it’s because we have to find wishes. What could be better than that?
Victoria Volk: To be able to that self agency, I think, is an organization called Dine with Dignity
Yvonne Caputo: Mhmm.
Victoria Volk: Around Capitol Hill. They’re, you know, pushing legislation across different states. Yeah. I I think it’s a very important topic that hasn’t talked about enough to I don’t think people realize that they have a choice, you know? Like, they have choices. But you’ve had a lot of grief, and I’m I we’re kinda nearing an hour, and I don’t know how you are on time.
Yvonne Caputo: I’m good. But you have
Victoria Volk: a lot of loss in your life that was before your mother, before your father. Would you like to share anything about those experiences and what those taught you?
Yvonne Caputo: I had an uncle. And the cousin who died by suicide. And it taught me to think a great deal about what was so bad. You know, what was what would be so bad that I would no longer want to live. And Are there times like that in everybody’s lives? Of course, there are. However, given what it did to their families, I wouldn’t never do that to my family. I would find a way through the miasma of whatever that bad stuff was. Because I just couldn’t do that to my family. Losing my brother at the age of twenty six in a car accident was one of the most profound grieving experiences I’ve ever had. He and I were very close and we had the same kind of radar in terms of what we wanted and who we wanted to be and how the world got be and all that kind of stuff. And going through the process of grieving his loss, My spirituality was enhanced, a hundred fold. My belief in life. And I’m not gonna say religion because religion isn’t it. It’s spirituality. That what I want from my life is to have made a difference. In whatever way she performed, that that is. I I want to make a difference. And I found that through my brother’s death. The other losses and uncle at the age of fifty two, uncle Mac. When we would see each other. First thing he would do is hold out his arms and expect me to run into them. And then he torn me around and he put me down on the floor. He was the person. He was one of the persons in the family that made me feel special. And he died at the age of fifty two. That was You never know how long. I have I had a great appetite at ninety six. Others who passed away in their late eighties, but you don’t know. He went to sleep one night and he didn’t wake up. You know? So living a life with purpose and trying to remember on a daily basis. What’s important for me to do today? Where do I need to spend my energy? At the end of the day, can I close my eyes and say, yeah, what’s a good day? Or it was a hire date, but that’s okay. So each I think each and every one of them has taught me something. And I was, bless my mother. My mother took me to the library. Well, that’s a little girl. And it was always she would say, what do you wanna read now? And she’d take me to that section, and we would talk about books and she would pull we would pull them out. And even as a little child, I would read about sorrowful things and how sorrowful things impacted the characters in the book. So I knew as a child that it was all it was it wasn’t always rosy and creamy and that kind of stuff. What didn’t happen in childhood was what to do with those feelings. Like I said earlier, that came, you know, when I did therapy. So there has been a learning process in each and every one of those, yes. To make me think about what I want having those documents ready. Right? And closing my eyes the final time and knowing that life was good. It was just good.
Victoria Volk: Was the uncle on your mother or father’s side,
Yvonne Caputo: my mother’s side. The two uncles that I mentioned were both on my mother’s side. And they lived very close to us, you know, so that’s why I had the relationship with them that I did. My uncles on my dad’s side live far away, so we might get to see them once every two years. I didn’t have the same kind of relationship with them.
Victoria Volk: How did you see the dynamic change between your parents when your brother passed? Like, what did that do to the family unit?
Yvonne Caputo: When my father was standing, receiving communion before he took a flight on the mission. He would say, if I come back, it’s God’s will. If I don’t, it’s God’s will. So that was That was how he handled it. My mother never recovered. Never recovered. And she never we were we did the family outing a couple of years. We would rent this big sixty foot houseboat and it had, like, twelve bedrooms in it, and so the whole family would get together and we’d go around the lake in Tennessee. Mom and I were walking in the woods. We could pull up to the shore and anchor, and mom and I were walking in the woods. And she looked around and she said, Oh, Mark would have loved this. Mark being my brother. And then out of her mouth came, oh, Teddy shut up. You should be over this by now. And I said to her, no. Mommy, you can’t. You’re never gonna be over losing a child is something that is with you for your lifetime. But the way she was raised, her generation was. Yeah. You should be over it. Now luckily for mom, she was very much a believer and I think church being able to go to church and have the church. Was reassuring to her, but they handled it very differently. And my father was one who would say, I can’t talk about it. It’s not my way. So I am now thinking that it could have been very helpful for mom to be able to talk about it as much as she needed to talk about it. But she didn’t have anywhere to express it.
Victoria Volk: I’m reading a book right now. The guest is gonna be on my podcast. I’m gonna botch her name, so I’m not even gonna try it. But her first name is Annie, and the book is called Always A sibling. And she talks about the the longest I’d never gave it any thought until I I read sorry, reading this book, but really the relationship with our siblings, if we are blessed to have a sibling, is the longest relationship. If you think about it, because we tend to all live our parents. Even those we marry, we were still in relationship with our siblings first. Like, those are our first and longest relationships. And in the book, she’s just talking about how significant of a loss it really is when you lose a sibling. It’s just very different.
It’s that they’re the people that know you unlike anybody else because they’ve been with you the longest. Anyway, that might be a book you might be interested in reading, but
Yvonne Caputo: Yes. Yes. Because the relationship I had with my brother who died. Was very much like that. We we spoke the same language. We had interest in the very same kinds of things. He was actually Mark called me and said, do you wanna come down to Pittsburgh? We’re gonna go see. It’s a famous nineteen seventies. Gordon, like okay. It came to me. And we did that together, and he was dating my best friend at the time. And then the following day, we went to a huge music store in Pittsburgh, Bullwringers. And he was looking at the coterminous and looking at the so looking at that. And that wasn’t as a fairly material, really interested because I’m not and not musical in the way that work was musical.
And he said, okay. I’m ready to go. All he’s got in his hands It’s this little brown flat envelope. We get in the car. And I said, Mark, what’d you buy? He said dust in the wind. The song by Kansas. All you are is dust in the wind, and your catheter and I are wearing the back seat. What? I think the music is beautiful, but the words are awful. That was the weekend before he died. He died the following Tuesday. So I think that also explains what I said earlier. That that loss, that loss is probably the biggest loss I’ve ever experienced. Ever ever experienced.
Victoria Volk: And yet, it’s not the one that you came on the podcast for.
Yvonne Caputo: You’re right. I didn’t. I feel his presence though, from time to time. It’s like I had this guardian angel. Who’s looking out for me.
Victoria Volk: Was that song played in his funeral?
Yvonne Caputo: No. It wasn’t. But I’ll be doing something. This was more when I be in the car and I have the car turned to a music station. But it would come on and I would feel his presence and it was like this message from beyond. That everything was gonna be fine. That whatever I was experiencing at the time was just normal to life and things would be fine.
Victoria Volk: One of the things that I I share about on my podcast and in conversation with people that you know, I personally had tried hitting a therapy once, my early twenties. And, you know, I’m trained and certified in grief recovery, which is not therapy, but it’s very therapeutic. And it’s not talk therapy. I mean, people talk, of course, but there’s also action. Right?
Yvonne Caputo: Mhmm.
Victoria Volk: So what do you say and I’m curious what you would say to this too. So that’s why I’m asking if people are listening who follow my podcast, they’re probably wanting me to ask this. So I’m gonna ask. What do you say when to the thought that talk therapy alone doesn’t work? Like, you have to take action with it? What are your thoughts around that? Because and this is this ties into actually another question. When you in your when you talk about processing your grief, like, I wanna know what that looked like for you. What did the act of processing your grief look like because I know what it looked like for me and it was using a method that’s evidence based in yada yada, it’s the grief recovery method. That’s the action piece. What did that look like for you? And what what is the action that you feel like people need to take when they’re in talk therapy or maybe not. I don’t know what’s your perspective of that. Howard Bauchner:
Yvonne Caputo: I value talk therapy. But there’s also something about what you do. Mhmm. It’s the doing thing. So if I go back and I think about the doing thing after Mark died, I would have to say that my presence in the classroom with kids changed. That doing for me was being there for my students in a way that had nothing to do with two plus two weeks before or putting a comma in the right place. It was there to be observant. It was there to look for pain. It was there to be a listening Yeah. It was there to give a hug that if I were to I I just knew. That if I were to be present for the kids, being actively present for the kids and my friends, that that would help me to heal. I would be doing something with the angst that I felt. I can give an example. We were sitting in the living room, talking about the wedding. And it just so happens we were looking through my husband’s Foot album of these parents’ marriage. And oddly enough, we were going to be getting married fifteen years to the day. Obvious ramen dad’s wedding. And and and he didn’t he and I didn’t notice. And and we’re kinda talking about this and and I looked and at the top of the stairs, there’s pavement. She’s seven years old and the tears are just dreaming down her face. So I went up, and we went into her room, and we sat on the bed, and I held her nice aggressive ladder. And she said, I’m never gonna know my grandmother. My grandmother’s dead, and I’m never gonna get to know her. And so I said, that is a sad thing. You’re absolutely right. So that’s an action in terms of how I changed. That Seeing someone in pain gives me an opportunity to stop and say, the listening piece. When I was a human resource professional, we had a very dear resident in the memories ring die. And she’s just lovely even in dementia. She was just one of these precious precious things. And I walked onto the unit and I could see one of the eights just trying to hold back the tears. And I would have turned, I said, could you use a hug? Am I just unfolded her ending? She sobbed. So being able to comfort someone in an active kind of way. Has been one of the ways I’ve managed my own grief. My the only, you know, that loss of of of my brother. Because there were times in my life that he didn’t do that for me or I would do that for him.
Victoria Volk: That’s a perspective I didn’t expect. Thank you for sharing.
Yvonne Caputo: You’re welcome. You’re welcome. I’m grateful to Mark. In the oddest of ways, I am grateful for that grief. I am grateful for his loss. Again, what I am back in the heartbeat? Oh, there’s so much I have to tell them. It’s just so much I have to tell them. I want them to meet this family of mine, but I really started to become something through the grief process. Around his dad that I treasure. And I do say that, you know, when I’m working with people in in grieving, you know, here’s where we go in. Boom. We dropped to the bottom. And then come up when you drop, when you drop, when you drop, when you drop, when you drop, and it may be years later, we don’t go down again. And that happened to me in England the other mirror. But if we grieve actively, if we do something with our grief, if we honor the feelings, if we process the feelings, if we do something, then here’s where we came in, here’s where we come out. And I’ve got a diagram of this that I show. That grief is away, if processed correctly, that we can become better people, more true to ourselves.
Victoria Volk: Yeah. It sounds like your your compassion was just cracked open.
Yvonne Caputo: Mhmm.
Victoria Volk: It really does sound like that experience of losing your brother was what just let your compassion flood out and propelled you to give it to others. The love that you couldn’t give to him. Right?
Yvonne Caputo: And I will remember your phrase. That it cracked open because that’s that’s pretty profound in and of itself. Yes, it cracked open.
Victoria Volk: I think for so many of us, for grief loss, you know, it can take us down. And crack us open to where we feel like we’re in a million pieces. But I do think it not that yours I don’t wanna say, like, not that it’s a special person. Right? Not that it How do I wanna say this? I think different people are built. To do something with that. You know, I think a lot of the people that have experienced a lot of grief, a lot of loss or trauma, young in life, throughout life. I think it just builds you differently. You know, I’m yeah. I guess that’s maybe my thought on that. For some people that may not experience a devastating loss until their twenties or thirties or forties later in life, that can be the very thing that just takes them takes them down and they find themselves in just completely lost, not knowing what to do. So what is one thing that you would like to scream to the world?
Yvonne Caputo: I am grateful for the loss of my brother in nineteen seventy eight. Because one of the life lessons that I was given is that If I actively grieve, if I actively work on it, I will get there. And so now if life throws something at me, that’s hard. If I actively work at it, it will get better. And if it doesn’t get better, then It’s time for me a to go talk to somebody or b, sometimes it’s meant for me, ending our relationship. You know, the the process of of greeting Mark and all the listens I learned from that. I hope it’s made me I think it’s made me a better person. And I’ll take that.
Victoria Volk: It’s a beautiful way to end this episode. Thank you for sharing. And Is there anything else that you would like to share that you don’t feel like you got to?
Yvonne Caputo: I think we did well.
Victoria Volk: I think so too. Where can people reach you if they would like to connect with you?
Yvonne Caputo: I don’t have my own website, but they can find me on my published website, which is in in Genium, I n g e n I u m books dot com. My email, if they would like to get in touch with me personally, is fairly simple. Yvonne, y v o n n e, author, a u t h o r, the number four at g mail dot com. Yvonne arthur four at gmail dot com. And you can also find me on LinkedIn. So if people wanna message me through LinkedIn, I’m there too.
Victoria Volk: Thank you so much.
Yvonne Caputo: In your books, please share your books. Okay. The first book is dying with dad. It sees World War two stories, kind of how those stories gave me the father I always wanted, and he got a daughter that he didn’t know he had. And then dying with that is how I grew. There are lots of growth stories in there to be comfortable talking about death and dying. And the tagline for the book is tough talks for easier endings. It’s how I got into having those intimate conversations with my father and what happened because of that.
Victoria Volk: And you can find those on Amazon.
Yvonne Caputo: Oh, everywhere. Yeah. Amazon earns a noble. If you are if you are an independent bookstore, lovered and they don’t have it on their shelves, just go in and ask them to order it for you.
Victoria Volk: Alright. I will put the links for those books and your LinkedIn and probably your email address. In the show notes. And thank you for your time today. I feel like this was a very rich conversation. I’ve I have a to do list for myself in gratitude of this conversation. Yeah. Thank you for sharing the resource. Five wishes dot org. I will also put that in the show notes. Get on that, everybody. Your own advocate? Before it’s too late, and thank you.
Yvonne Caputo: Oh, you’re welcome. It was a pleasure.
Victoria Volk: And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life, much love.
Childhood Grief, Divorce, Educational, Grieving Voices Podcast, Parenting, Podcast, solo episode |
Part II | Supporting Children Through Divorce and The Holidays
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
This episode is a follow-up to the last one to bring awareness to Children’s Grief Awareness Day on November 16th, 2023.
In this episode, I dive into supporting children through divorce and their challenges during the holidays. We must recognize that children experience various forms of grief and that parents play a crucial role in helping them cope with loss. Parents who receive early education on loss are better prepared to support their children effectively.
The impact of divorce on children is explored, highlighting the multiple losses they experience and the difficulties they face in understanding love and commitment. It can’t be stated enough that parents face many challenges in being present and acknowledging their children’s feelings during a challenging time, such as navigating all of the changes that occur as a result of a divorce (or separation), particularly when the parents are grieving themselves.
This episode implores all adults to empathize with children struggling, particularly during holidays and challenging family situations. As a society, we must break the cycle of inadequate support by providing better guidance to the next generation.
I encourage all listeners to engage with the episode and provide feedback to help shape future discussions on supporting children through divorce and the holidays. We adults must raise awareness about children’s grief, advocate for improved support systems, and empower all parents to navigate challenging situations with sensitivity and understanding. Future generations depend on what we adults choose to do or not do in response to children’s grief.
RESOURCES:
_______
NEED HELP?
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
- Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor
If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.
CONNECT WITH VICTORIA:
Victoria Volk: Hello friend. Thank you for tuning in to this episode. And it is a follow-up episode to the one before last week, Children’s Grief Awareness. And I said in that episode that I would bring in part two where I’d be talking more about supporting children through divorce and through the holidays as it relates to grief and divorce in general.
Victoria Volk: And I wanna share that, the first episode, Children’s Grief Awareness part one, has not been a very popular episode, and I just want to share how sad that kind of makes me not kind of, it does make me sad. And I suppose, I’m not sure exactly who you are listening to this. Do you not have children? Do most people who listen to this podcast not have children? Are you older? And maybe your children are older? And don’t have young children anymore, that could be. I would love to know why that episode isn’t resonating or if it did, please share that too.
Victoria Volk: And I would just love to know like who’s really on the other side listening to my voice. Are you listening in the car? Are you listening while you wash dishes? Are you listening on your commute? Or when you’re walking, I would love to know. So please share your feedback on the podcast directly please email me. Consider this like you supporting me in research. Because I’m really am curious. Please email me at [email protected] or find me on social media, Instagram is usually where I like to is my go to @theunleashedheart, and on Facebook, you can message me, Victoria The Unleashed Heart.
Victoria Volk: Anyway, I’m sure you can find me. Links are in the show notes too. If you are interested in helping me do that research. I would love to know who you are listening because I really am curious why that episode isn’t so popular, but regardless because I’m so passionate about children’s grief and the child grievers out there because I was one and I grew up as one. I’m still going to record a part two even though that last episode may not have been as popular because I feel like it is such an important topic because even if your children are older, they’re teenagers this still applies to you if your children are adults, who may be are starting their own families. Please share this with them too. I guarantee you that you probably know or have a child in your life, and this is just great information to have in your back pocket or to share with someone you know.
Victoria Volk: So, piggybacking on what I shared last week. There are some points I want to drill home. Point one is that children learn how to deal with loss at a very early age. That’s something I didn’t talk about in the last episode, but the vast majority of parents don’t realize that children, by the age of three, have learned or developed seventy-five percent of the skills that they will use for the rest of their lives to deal with issues that face them. Most parents rarely know or think about this when they are dealing with the daily issues related to their children. I’ve been there so many times, I can’t even tell you. Parents are very much in the moment when they’re talking to their children and likely they don’t even take into consideration how their children store things in their personal belief system.
Victoria Volk: While the vast majority of the information that parents pass on is of value. Like, we all, we are the teachers. Right? Mixed in with all of that good information can be also misinformation on how to deal with loss. And I’ve talked about this before on the podcast, but when your back is up against the wall and you have a grief experience, you’re gonna resort to what you know. And even when your children are faced with a grieving experience, you as a parent are gonna resort to what you know and likely what you were taught as a child is what you will pass on to your child. Unconsciously or consciously, some things, we don’t even really think about it. We just respond. Right? We just react. And that’s what we tend to do is respond in a knee-jerk reaction.
Victoria Volk: Point two I wanna make is that grief is more than an emotional response to death. I’ve talked about this so many times, but again, it bears repeating when it comes to childhood grief too. Because it’s not just about death, and children don’t need to be dealing with a death to experience grief. Comes in a lot of forms. Many losses that impact a child may seem insignificant to you as the adult for like example, let’s say, their favorite toy, and they can’t find it. They lost it. Where another child broke it. It seems insignificant to use the adult or the parent. But to us, it’s like, I can just buy go buy another one. I mean, there’s a million in one soccer balls or whatever it is. But to the young child that lost that toy or that whatever it is, it can be overwhelming. Especially if maybe it was a gift or something like that. Likewise, as adults, we become accustomed to friends saying things to us that we might find upsetting. And we might take offense. And in the moment, but we often are able to look at that comment if we take a step back, look at it from a broader perspective, and based on our relationship, not let that statement have a long-lasting emotional impact on us.
Victoria Volk: However, adolescents and teens do not have an adult’s perspective. And can find one negative comment or a breach of confidentiality emotionally devastating. In both situations, children are dealing with a very real grief grieving experience. And without realizing it, the way parents respond to these early grieving experience can establish a pattern for how the child learns to deal with loss for the rest of their lives. Even though as parents, we don’t see these early issues as being related to grief. They have nonetheless set a reactive response to loss in the child’s belief system. And it’s not like we’re trying to pass on bad information to our children. It’s just something that happens. A child is the most complex thing we ever bring home and they do not have detailed cautionary information stamped on the bottom of them. Right? They don’t come with a manual.
Victoria Volk: Point three, early education on loss for parents helps prepare children. The children in their life Grief Education is prevention. This is prevention. Most parents never think about helping their children deal with personal emotional loss until there is a crisis of some kind. It may be the death of a family member, a friend, or a pet that forces them to act. And it might be a divorce or some other major life event. Rarely do parents realize that they have already inadvertently given children in ineffective tools to deal with loss, even with previous minor issues their children may have experienced. And when parents face a crisis, they equally find themselves lost, like, as anyone would. Right? Like grief devastating loss just flips your entire world upside down. So your first thought might be to send your child to a professional for assistance. But the problem with that is that the children may see the professionals as advice as being in conflict with what they have already learned. A complicating factor, no matter the value of what this professional tries to teach them, can be conflicting information if the parents are not on the same page as that professional. And so mixed information or interactions with the child can just all it does is create more confusion. Taking all of that into account alone, should have you running to the bookstore or going on to Amazon and ordering the book when children grieve just based on what I just said. Or finding a support group program, like someone like me who facilitates the Helping Children with Loss program. Rather than waiting to for you to recognize that your child is struggling, you can help though with an overwhelming loss in advance, why wait for there to be a devastating loss or an issue to surface before we decide to help our children. Doesn’t it make more sense to teach parents the things they need to know to help their child feel safe to express their sadness during those first three years of life? And again, this is when these children aren’t just starting to develop the belief system that they will use for the rest of their lives. That is why Helping Children with Loss, When Children Grieve The Handbook is prevention. This information is prevention.
Victoria Volk: Now that I’ve gotten these three points out, I wanna start talking about divorce in the holidays as it relates to children in their grief experience. And it might surprise you that we actually divide divorce into two different categories, long-term or sudden. And the difference with divorce is that there is often one partner who has been struggling for a long time. While the other partner has been unaware, that things are not right. And so when the later gets served with divorce papers, it can have the impact of a sudden death, and some children are very aware of a problem in their household. I would say most are aware because children are sponges. They take in information in all kinds of ways and their eyes and ears are always listening and hearing and seeing and watching. So they have often seen and been subjected to arguments between their parents over an extended period of time. And for those children, the announcement of a divorce will fall under the heading of a long-term condition. And on the other hand, some parents manage to conceal from their children, their personal difficulties with each other. And when children who were not aware of any major problems are informed of an impending divorce, their reaction is also as if a sudden death has happened. The impact can be overwhelming to a child. And there’s a high probability that a child may begin to participate in a variety of short-term energy-relieving behaviors in response to the sudden news of their parents’ divorce. It could be said that a divorce is a family matter. And even though there is truth in that comment, the bottom line is that the couple is getting the divorce and the children are in the line of fire. The collateral damage to the children can be monumental.
Victoria Volk: The children caught in a divorce are experiencing multiple losses. What loss or losses are they experiencing? Well, look at the conflicting feelings caused by a change or an end in a familiar pattern of behavior. So some examples of losses that children may experience while their parents are going through divorce is a loss of patient that this family would be together. The loss of trust, loss of familiarity and routines, loss of safety, loss of childhood, loss of residence, and or the change to dual residences. Any one of these losses is enough to break a child’s heart. Not to mention, feel overwhelming.
Victoria Volk: So let’s look at each of these in a little bit more detail. Looking at the loss of expectation that the family would be together, children are taught about love and honor and trust and loyalty by their parents. They learn how to be loving and considerate how to resolve conflicts and how to get along with others. And from literature and films and religious institutions, children also learn that the vows exchanged in the marriage ceremony pledge a commitment to those virtues. And whether or not you’ve experienced this, think about how can fusing and disturbing it must be to children when their parents cannot maintain that pledge to each other. Also, take loss of trust. Imagine the conflicting feelings children must experience as a divorce scenario unfolds, or explodes before their eyes. What reference point do they have to deal with those feelings? It is very difficult teach your children about love and simultaneously teach them about divorce. Given that implicit promise that the family will always be together, the divorce itself represents a major breach of trust.
Victoria Volk: Moving on to loss of familiarity and routines, this is difficult all by itself, and it’s often greatly intensified by the fact that children may be undergoing other major transitions as they move from childhood to adulthood. We know all too well that the stresses and strains of those transitions can have powerful consequences. And those transitions can be happening in every age bracket.
Victoria Volk: Next, loss of safety. Familiarity in routines build safety in a sense of well-being. The patterns established within a family are usually dismantled by divorce. Children flailing around and the emotional aftermath of a divorce often do not feel very safe. Safety and familiarity go hand in hand, so it is a good idea to limit the amount of additional changes.
Victoria Volk: Loss of childhood. The instinct for survival can take many forms. For the most part, survival actions are beneficial. Sometimes they backfire. The scenario in which children take care of a parent is one example of such a backfire. It is understandable that children who would instinctively try to protect the very person or people who are supposed to protect them. It’s the child’s way of trying to guarantee their own survival. But this impulse to care take puts them in conflict with their own nature. Divorce tends to turn children into amateur psychologists. It spurs them to analyze and figure things out. It forces them to grow up before their time and to take on attitudes and actions that are not appropriate to their time of life.
Victoria Volk: And I can say this specifically for myself that that holds a lot of truth just for my own experience of my dad passing when I was eight years old, my parents didn’t divorce. He died, but like I said earlier, divorce can be this long-term experience where it can be this like a sudden death. And so that’s where there’s similarities that can be expressed in divorce, as well as a death of a parent.
Victoria Volk: And talking about loss of residence or change to dual residences, everything that I’ve talked about has been magnified when the move is the result of a divorce. The moves or changes caused by the divorce carrying emotional weight which is added to the fact that moving in and of itself changes everything that is familiar and routine for a child. Think about it. If you change your job, you’re going to a new you might move across to a different state, you’re going to have new coworkers, new neighbors, new friends. You’re leaving old friends and colleagues behind. The same goes for children. But it’s on a scale that taking all these other things into consideration and what I’ve already shared you can see why this would have probably long-term effects on the well-being of a child.
Victoria Volk: And here’s what I’ll say to all of this. When as parents, we work on our own grief and work to resolve what is emotionally complete for ourselves and the losses that we’ve experienced in our life, whether it’s loss of trust or loss of safety or loss of our spouse or parent. We learn how to simply be present with a child in our life. Regardless of their age. You can simply be and not have to do anything. You don’t have to fix your child. You don’t have to give advice. You don’t have to jump in or change a subject. You can just listen and acknowledge. And this is what builds trust with children. And I will go on to say to starting first, going first, speaking to how you had expectations for your life with your significant other that didn’t work out, but that doesn’t mean that that child has loved any less. It doesn’t mean that you care about that, the other parent, any less. You might, but to not use that time that you have with your child to bad mouth or talk about the other parent, but instead use the time that you have with your child to. Let them share. Let them express. Let them give voice to what they’re feeling, to what they’re thinking. That is what builds trust with children.
Victoria Volk: And this is where grief recovery is the most helpful because you can simply learn how to connect with your child at an emotional level. And not take away the feelings of the child. That’s not the goal. It’s not the goal to fix just to be and listen. And so as we’re navigating the holidays coming up and the changes of homes or sharing the holiday with a significant other or your now ex-spouse, or ex-significant other. Think about that. Think about what that child put yourself in the shoes of the child. What will they be experiencing? What would how are they feeling about especially if this is the first holiday the first Thanksgiving or the first Christmas where the child is feeling torn between two homes. Feeling torn from their mother, being feeling torn from their father, or whatever the situation is. It could even be a grandparent and a parent. Right? I mean, there are so many different scenarios to what a family looks like these days that I just my point is though is to think about the child put yourself attempt to put yourself in that child’s shoes. And your child may say, well, you might ask, well, how are you doing? I’m fine. Children might appear to be fine. They might appear unscathed. But I guarantee you all of the change and disruption to their life, especially if it was I would say regardless if it was like this long-term thing that they saw issues, they knew that there were issues versus feeling like it was a sudden death. Either way, there is gonna be changes that the entire family will have to navigate and adapt to.
Victoria Volk: And I think if the child is brought into the fold of that experience and not shut out or, I mean, if you might think that you’re protecting them, but if protecting them is not letting them talk about their feelings or not letting them share or not having them have a voice that is not helping them. And so I just wanted to encourage you if you find yourself in this situation or someone who is or if it was a death, let’s say it was a death of a parent, all of these things can still apply that I just talked about. There’s still going to be a lot of change. There’s still going to be a lot of uncertainty and by keeping those points in mind that I started out this episode with, you can be a soft space. And a place for a child to turn to not to be fixed, but to be heard.
Victoria Volk: And I guess that’s my whole point in sharing this episode. These two episodes is to bring awareness to childhood grief because it is a thing. Even though child children may appear fine, they may appear like they’re not being affected. I guarantee you they are on some level. They could just be expressing what they’ve learned from you. They could be emulating what they’ve learned from you. And so take that into consideration like how have you shown up in your grief and express that to your child regardless of what their age is because you can look back in hindsight and you’re always a parent. You’re forever a parent. That never changes. So whether it is an adult child or whether it is a young child, this is an episode where you can reflect on the past and think about the lessons that you passed out to your children and maybe share this episode with them and have a conversation. Maybe some things that you would have liked to have done differently or that you wish would have gone differently. That’s grief too. Grief is a loss of hope, dreams, and expectations. Anything that we wish would have been or could be different, better, or more.
Victoria Volk: And that’s what I gotta say about that. This is for the children out there, the grievers, the most vulnerable among us, and you grow up one day. I know you’re a child. You’re not as a child, you’re not probably listening to this. But as an adult, if you were a child who experienced a lot of grief and you grew up with grief. I see you. I hear you. I know you because I am you. And this is why I’m so passionate about sharing this information today in this episode and the last episode. And I do hope that the downloads go up because there are a whole lot of children suffering in this world and there are a whole lot of adults who grew up as children who felt as though they were suffering.
Victoria Volk: And if you are now a parent like me and you were a child griever, you can break the cycle. You can break those patterns and those things that you learned that were misinformation and unhelpful to you you can learn new knowledge and new tools to support your children and to break that cycle moving forward. That’s all I gotta say today on this topic. I hope you found it helpful. Please share it with a parent that you know or love or use it as a tool for yourself to become a better version of yourself as a parent to children that you are raising. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Childhood Grief, Grieving Voices Podcast, Parenting, Podcast, solo episode |
Part I | Children’s Grief Awareness
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
In light of November 16th being Children’s Grief Awareness Day, I recount my experience as a child griever in today’s episode.
Back in the ’80s, and still very much today, the topic of grief was uncomfortable and not something people openly shared their feelings about. Not to mention, the resources that exist today did not exist back then, leaving society to fend for itself and perpetuate the myths of grief I so often talk about: Don’t Feel Bad, Replace the Loss, Grieve Alone, Be Strong, Keep Busy, and Time Heals.
Growing up with grief poses many challenges for children, particularly with the loss of parents, safety, and security. The myths of grief have been ingrained in our society, and grieving children of the past, like myself, grow up passing those same myths down to their children. Hence, the cycle of grief misinformation continues. This is why I am so passionate about talking about grief because the cycle must be broken.
The more people who recognize they’re not forever broken or destined for a life of grief and instead learn new information and tools, the better off future generations will be – the better off our world will be.
I encourage all listeners to empathize with grieving children during this Children’s Grief Awareness Day. Reflect on the role you play in the life of a grieving child you know. If you want a child to feel safe in sharing, as an adult, you often have to go first in sharing.
Through this episode, you will also learn children’s common reactions to grief and more. In Part II, I will focus on an experience many children have today – divorced parents and navigating the holidays, especially if this is the first holiday without a loved one.
RESOURCES:
_______
NEED HELP?
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
- Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor
If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.
CONNECT WITH VICTORIA:
Victoria Volk: Hello, hello, good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, whatever time it is that you are listening to this thank you for being here. If this is your first time listening, I hope you enjoy this episode. And if you find it helpful, I hope you share it or leave a five-star review if you feel like it’s beneficial information and if you walked away learning something, and if this is not your first time listening, thank you for tuning in again. And if you have not left a review yet for the podcast, I would greatly appreciate it.
Victoria Volk: Today, I wanna talk more about child grief because Thursday, November sixteenth is Children’s Grief Awareness Day. And I felt it was important just to share a little bit more on this topic for children’s grief awareness because I think, let’s say, if you lose your spouse or you lose your parent, right, if the child loses their grandparent, it can be really easy to kinda get wrapped up in your own emotions and your own feelings and thoughts and sadness. Right? And I certainly experienced this for myself as a child griever where there really wasn’t a lot of communication with me asking me as an eight-year-old how I felt about my dad’s passing or how I felt about not seeing him or essentially growing up without him.
Victoria Volk: There really wasn’t a whole lot of conversation directed at me and about how I was dealing with that devastating loss. He had been sick for several years colon cancer. I am currently the age that my dad was when he passed away. I’m forty-four years old. And I cannot imagine. He was sick for about two years before he passed. And by the time they caught it, it was or founded it was too late, but he hung on. And he put up the good fight, but I did have a lot of difficulty with that loss, both getting into my twenties, certainly as a teenager it’s not an easy time anyway, but my mother had I’ll say quickly because to me, as a kid, it’s seemed quick. Within two years, my mom was remarried and this new guy was in our life and he treated me well. There was no issue there. He wasn’t there a lot because he was a long-haul trucker.
Victoria Volk: And my childhood was just a really, like, full of extremes. Right? It was these really high highs and these really low lows. But there was more lows than there were highs because they didn’t have the best relationship. And of course, it’s really difficult to be married to someone who isn’t there a whole lot just in general. So anyway, my childhood and my teen years were just a really difficult time, and that was the best I could, and I found myself really trying to emotionally care take others I was often the emotional caretaker for my mom and for a lot of friends, like I was the shoulder that friends cried on, and I was happy to be the supportive friend, to be the friend that was there for everyone.
Victoria Volk: I’d been through a lot at that by my teen years, I had been through a lot and experienced a lot more than maybe some people I know that are my age now. And so I had to grow up fast I did. I had to grow up fast. And so I really don’t feel like I had much of a carefree childhood that children really do deserve. And so that’s really why I wanted to highlight this topic today because for me, Children Grief Awareness Day is all about the kids. So I just want you to listen and set aside whatever you’re experiencing, whatever sadness and grief and whatever you’re feeling about a loss that you’ve recently had, and you have a child that’s experiencing it alongside you. I want you to just set aside whatever you’re feeling and attempt to put yourself in the shoes of this child that you know or love. No end love. Maybe it’s your own child. Maybe it’s your grandchild. Maybe it is maybe you’re an older sibling and it’s a younger child in the family, that’s still at home because maybe you’re in your twenties and your sibling is like fifteen I don’t know, but I’m just the focus today, let’s put it on the children. And so as you’re listening to this episode, it is my hope that you walk away from this episode learning something.
Victoria Volk: So many of the normal and natural signs of grief are fairly obvious. And most of those signs would be the same for a child’s reaction to a death, divorce or some other type of loss. But let’s just say we’re talking about news about a death. Often, the immediate response learning of a death is a sense of, like, this numbness, which can last a different amount of time for each child. What usually lasts longer and is even more universe is a reduced ability to concentrate. And I can say that for me, as a child, if I would have gone to a therapist or a psychologist or what had you, which was not the case. My mom would have probably been told that I had ADHD. So other common reactions include major changes in eating and sleeping patterns. These patterns can alternate from one extreme to the other. Also typical is a roller coaster of emotional highs and lows. And these are not stages. They’re simply just some of the normal ways in which the body and the mind and especially the emotions respond to the overwhelmingly painful information that something out of the ordinary has occurred.
Victoria Volk: So going back to my personal experience as a child griever, and within the year of my dad’s passing, I know I mentioned this on the podcast before, but if you’ve never listened to an episode, I was molested and in going into my teen years. So when I say that my childhood was you know, not much of a childhood. I’m this is the context in which I’m speaking to that. So there was a lot of change and a lot of trauma in my early life. And I can tell you that I slept a lot. Most of the pictures I have of myself as a child are of me sleeping, sleeping in the middle of the living room, floor midday or before actually bedtime, falling asleep on my bed before a birthday party, which I completely miss because my mother felt the need to take a picture but not wake me up for the birthday party. And I was a tardy a lot with school. And I would always get an elementary school. It was like an n for needs improvement. I would always have an n for listens to and follows directions.
Victoria Volk: So again, comes back to this change in sleep patterns or inability to concentrate. And just really fidgety. Like, I just recall being very just very much in, like, my own la la land. But these reactions to a death are normal and typical. And even if there has been a long-term illness, like in the case of my dad, which may have included substantial time and opportunity to so unquote unquote prepare for that which would inevitably happen. We cannot repair ourselves or our children in advance for the emotional reaction to a death because we don’t understand the finality. We can’t even wrap our heads around the finality of that moment until it actually occurs.
Victoria Volk: If you’ve listened to any previous episodes, you’ve heard me say that grief isn’t just about physical death. There’s a much broader definition that encompasses all losses experiences, which I’ve shared before on this podcast. But if this is your first time listening, grief is the conflicting feelings caused by a change or an end in a familiar pattern of behavior. So, if you’re thinking about like these list of losses that include death of a pet, death of a grandparent, moving, divorce, divorce of a child’s parents, and death of a parent. Each of these losses represents a massive change or end from everything familiar. With death, the person or path that has always been. There is no longer there. With moving, the familiar place and surroundings are different. Divorce alters all of the routines in a child’s life. It often includes changes in living situations and separation from extended family, members and friends. All of these losses mentioned carry with them the obvious emotional impact that we can all imagine would affect children.
Victoria Volk: But our definition of grief includes the idea that there are conflicting feelings. If you’ve ever had a loved one who struggled for a long time with the terminal illness, you may have had some feelings of relief when that person died. The relief usually stems from the idea that your loved one is no longer in pain. At the same time, your heart may have felt broken because he or she was no longer here. So the conflicting feelings are relief and sadness. Moving also sets up conflicting feelings. We may miss some of the familiar things that we liked about the old house or the neighborhood. And at the same time really like some of the things about the new place.
Victoria Volk: Children are particularly affected by changes in locations, routines, and physical familiarity, death, divorce, and even moving or obvious losses, unless the parent or loss is having to do with health issues, a major change in the physical or mental health of a child or a parent can have dramatic impact on a child’s life. And even though children are not usually involved with financial matters, they can also be affected by major financial changes, positive or negative within their family. Society has identified more than forty life experiences that produce feelings of grief. And at the Grief Recovery Institute, they’ve expanded that list to include many of the loss experiences that are less concrete and difficult to measure such as loss of trust, loss of safety, and loss of control are the most prominent of the intangible but life altering experiences that affect children’s lives.
Victoria Volk: Intangible losses tend to be hidden and often do not surface until later in life through therapy and other self-examinations. I can tell you that that was certainly true for myself. I hope that this initial information is a good foundation that it helps you gain a better understanding of how grief just doesn’t impact you, but it impacts the children in your life in a lot of similar ways, but in a lot of different ways too.
Victoria Volk: I’m gonna make this a two-part series. Next week, I’m going to record and focus on children with divorce, experiencing their parents with divorce. Because we’re going into Thanksgiving and the holidays and things and with it being Children’s Grief Awareness Day. I’m just gonna make this a two-part and hopefully you can find some resources and support in moving into the holidays through these couple episodes. That’s the episode for today. I laid the foundation. Come back next week for where we’re gonna talk about divorce. And that impact on children and navigating all of that with the holidays. So I hope to have you back next week. And in the meantime, remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Emotions, Grieving Voices Guest, Mental Health, Mind/Body Wellness, Podcast, solo episode |
Navigating Tears Through Changes and Transitions
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Changes and transitions are inevitable; we can’t stop the world from turning and time marching on. Our lived experience is filled with phases and stages of life, and through those phases and stages, we are given the opportunity to grow through the changes and transitions that change us.
In today’s episode, I share several examples of the changes and transitions that I’ve gone through throughout my life. We often don’t think of going from dating to married life or becoming a parent as having loss experiences woven in. However, because we are in a relationship with others through these changes, and many others that I mention, it’s impossible not to experience some loss and grief as we navigate the tears that often come with those changes and transitions.
One of the definitions of grief that the Grief Recovery Institute shares is that grief is a change to, or end of, a familiar pattern of behavior. If we think about how our lives hum along day after day, and we do relatively the same things day after day with the same people, when that suddenly changes or ends — surely you will have some feelings around those changes, right?
Explore some of the common changes and transitions I address that you may have also experienced or reflect on some more that aren’t mentioned today. Toward the end of the episode, I offer up an invitation of things to keep in mind as you navigate the tears of whatever change or transition you’re experiencing. And know, too, that you are not alone in your experience! We are all grieving something (or someone)!
RESOURCES:
_______
NEED HELP?
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
- Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor
If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.
Are you enjoying the podcast? Check out my bi-weekly newsletter, The Unleashed Letters.
CONNECT WITH VICTORIA:
Victoria Volk: Hello. Hello. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Grieving Voices, episode one fifty-nine already. It’s crazy to think that yeah One fifty-nine. I’m on my fourth year of doing this podcast and it’s been one of the joys of my life really to have this space to use my throat chakra. And to share what I’m learning, what I’ve learned throughout the years about grief, and to inform which plays into my human design which I’m diving deep into as of late, as a manifestor energy type. Shout out to all my fellow manifestors. If you are familiar with human design, and if you do follow human design or you know you’re a human design, I am an emotional four six. Fine. So six, meaning I’m here to tell stories, I guess. From what I’m learning. It is why I use my own personal experience to share my insights and what I’ve learned. I draw from my personal experience. And today, that is actually part of today’s episode. Where I’m going to be talking about changes and transitions and navigating the tiers through all of that. I’ve been through a lot of changes in transitions over the years and throughout my life as many of you listening probably have as well.
Victoria Volk: And so today is actually an episode two to highlight some of those grief experiences that really aren’t thought of as grief. Too often in conversation, like, when we talk about these things, we’re not talking. We rarely use the word “grief” or we rarely use the word “loss” when we’re talking about these things. But I thought it was important enough to share some of these things that I just was taking notes before I recorded in the last few days, I’ve been jotting down notes, things that I felt were important to share with you today. And I will try to be concise, and I’m sure I’ll be going round and round and some parts of this podcast episode, but my hope is that by the end of this episode, you will recognize some experiences in your life as grief experiences, as moments of loss that you may not have thought of before.
Victoria Volk: And so one of the first things that comes to my mind is just recently we moved our first child, our first born to college. And that’s a huge transition. It’s a huge change for any family because when you’ve been a family unit for eighteen years and all of a sudden one of your pop sleeves the nest or birds. Birds leave the nest. One of your birds leaves the nest. Or one of your pup sleeves the pack, I should say. It can be a little like a roller coaster. It can feel exciting and it can feel like a joyful time of growth and freedom for both. As the kids start to leave the house, you as the parents, have a different chapter of life to look forward to. All of a sudden, you have freedoms that you may not have had before. Right? You have more time to do things you enjoy. And more free time. Right? Because you’re not chasing to one activity to the next and although if your child plays sports in college and you’re probably chasing after those things, but it’s still a change because there’s that empty chair at the table. We eat as a family and that’s kind of a time where we reconnect. And especially when all three kids were at home and doing different sports and things, certain parts of the year, the school year in particular, there wasn’t a lot of meal time together and I recognize that more so probably this last year when all three of my kids were working jobs in addition to school and things.
Victoria Volk: So I guess I’ve had a little practice in getting used to this change that was coming just with the fact that we weren’t always together as a family in this past year. And it didn’t hit me until we got home. I didn’t cry graduation. I didn’t cry after graduation, I didn’t cry on the way up to the college. I didn’t cry on the way home from the college. It hit me in the evening and the next day in particular, waking up and realizing that my son’s not in his bed downstairs and, yes, he’s, maybe ninety miles away, which isn’t too far. And I can go visit him anytime. I want to and he can come home. It’s just different.
Victoria Volk: It’s not you know, and people might say, oh, they’ll be fine and oh, you can go visit. They’re not that far away. And kinda be dismissive about how you’re feeling. And that’s not fair, is he going to be okay? Yes. I most certainly know he’ll be okay just like you probably know your child will be okay after, if you did the same thing as I did and moved your child to college, but that’s not the question. I’m not questioning if he’ll be okay. What I’m feeling is deeper than that. It’s this knowing that things will be different from here on out. It’s the knowing that he is now an adult on his own. It is knowing that I don’t know what he’s really thinking or feeling. I can’t see him or his face or his mannerisms or his behavior when it changes. If something, it’s like when your kid is living in under your roof and in your home, you get a sense of their emotional state from day to day. You don’t get that once they leave. You don’t get that sense of okayness. Like, I know he’ll be okay in terms of, like, he’s got a good head on his shoulders and I trust that he’ll make good decisions, but it’s a different kind of mother instinct, I suppose, this mother feeling, I feel that, I want to know in my heart that emotionally he’s okay. I think that’s what it is for me. Because I am such a feeler. I am an emotional energy. Anyway, I feel very deeply and So I just it’s I think that’s where that’s coming from. And just the change. Right?
Victoria Volk: The impact it has on me and that it probably has on him because he’s now away from his pack. I can’t just because a child goes off to college doesn’t mean that they’ve craved this independence and they’ve craved this aloneness. Although that may be true, it’s still also true or can be true that they will miss their siblings, that they will miss their family pet, that they will miss their bed, that they will miss the consistency of having that safety and security of being home. So it goes far deeper than well, they’ll be okay. You can see him anytime. That’s not where I’m coming from as I’ve just shared with you.
Victoria Volk: And so many of you can maybe relate to that experience of dropping your first kid off at college. Right? And what I will also add to that is that every relationship is different and unique. So maybe the people that say that don’t have as close of a relationship with their child because every relationship is different. My son and I really didn’t get close until after he had his accident. And before that, actually, I was feeling of some sadness around, how our relationship was struggling a bit. We both had this. He was sixteen and struggling for his independence. And we were pretty strict. I mean, we weren’t we had rules and it wasn’t to control. It was because nothing good happens after midnight. My friends, like, nothing good happens after midnight. And so we did have rules and things and still do. But our relationship was not near what it is now. And I think it’s because of everything that he went through, he realized how good he had it, and he realized how loved he is. And how blessed he is just as we did. Like, wow we are so lucky that accident didn’t go a different way.
Victoria Volk: And there’s previous podcast episode about that. I can try and find it and link to it in the show notes, but it was a really difficult challenging time for our family and I think we all learned a lot from that experience, but it was that experience. I think that was the catalyst for bringing us closer as a family. And so to have that and to feel that so strongly and then for it to be gone, not gone, like, of course, we’re still gonna be close and I still feel like we are. It’s just different. It’s just different. It’s a transition and it’s going to take time to recalibrate our family dynamic and to recalibrate moving forward as four people living in the household instead of five because he did bring a lot to our home.
Victoria Volk: And we just you don’t get that sense on a day to day like you did, like we did before. And so what grief is is the change of familiar pattern of behavior, and so there is a lot of change that comes with your kid going off to college. Now let’s say your kid didn’t go off to college and you might be feeling this failure or this pressure from society. The child might be feeling this pressure and things from society that, oh, I should be going to college or I should be doing this. And parents might feel like, well, their child should be moving out of the house or what have you? Like, there’s all these societal norms that we project and expect other people to follow these specific set of rules, like, well, you go to school for twelve years, you graduate, you go to college for four or two and you get married and you have kids. Like, that’s those are the societal rules. Right?
Victoria Volk: And I’ll just want to share with the parents whose child maybe has not chosen the path of college. For whatever reason, it doesn’t matter the reason that they’re not less worthy or they’re not less smart or what have you and you’re not less of a parent because your child is not choosing college. I went to college, I started college, I did not finish. And does that make me not as intelligent as someone who did or went and got there bachelors, master’s, doctorate? Like, we all have our gifts. We all have our strengths. And it doesn’t take a degree to develop those. In fact, a lot of our skills and our strengths are developed because of life experience, which you can’t get from a degree. Right?
Victoria Volk: I’m a huge proponent of education, of course. But in this day and age, there are so many means of learning that I don’t think there is one specific way. And I’m just gonna plug Youmap here for a moment because I had my son go through his I had my son do the Youmap and it turned out that a hunch that I had was accurate and healthcare was a good fit based on his Youmap, based on his strengths and his themes of mostly thinking themes and that is what he’s going to college for nursing. And he did become a certified nursing assistant, for college, and he was loving that work.
Victoria Volk: And so I just wanna plug any college bound kids or kids that are contemplating college or maybe not contemplating college and just wanna go into the workforce to check into Youmap, and maybe parents listening to this, if you have a child who is unsure what they want to do, to check into their Youmap. And for those that might be thinking, well, a piece of this a Youmap is not gonna tell someone what they should do for the rest of their lives.
Victoria Volk: And I’ll tell you that it’s not a document to tell you what to do with the rest of your life, but it is a place to start where you are right now? Because like I said, your strengths change over time with experience. It is knowledge that will evolve and grow and change with you. You want to take your Youmap every few years. So once you’ve but the thing is that doesn’t change, what doesn’t change? Is your personality, like how you’re wired. And that is actually taken to account for the whole Youmap. So there are very key components of it that really won’t change. And I just wanna encourage you guys to check into it. If you are feeling a little lost in your life, which often happens when we are going through a phase of transition or change. We can feel a little lost.
Victoria Volk: A thing to consider is with the change and transition of child leaving the nest is honoring boundaries. One of the things that I’ve been educated on by my son is boundaries. And boundaries are two sided. Right? It’s not just the boundaries that I have. It’s the boundaries that he has in place. And I just so happened to send a text that was too long. He said, I don’t wanna read a novel between classes. And I said, well I was just trying to find out, I was trying to actually organize when I was gonna stop in the next time I go to see him between his classes. And I had all sorts of things I was trying to work around for schedule wise and so I put it in a text and he’s like you could have just said, call me when you get a chance. And you said, and I said, you know what? You’re right. I’ll do that next time. Keep it short and sweet is his boundary. So dutally noted, I will keep my text messages short and sweet and just say call me when you get a chance if I have more I need to talk out.
Victoria Volk: But honoring that this is his time. To find himself. This is his time to have the full college experience that I do want him to have and not be worried about, oh, I gotta text mom back or I gotta call mom back or I gotta make sure she’s okay. Like, I’m okay. I’m okay. I don’t need him to assure me that I’m okay. But will I text him every night and tell him good night I love you? Yes, I will, even if he doesn’t respond. And that’s just me needing to inform him of the thing that I said to him every single night since the day he was born. So that will not change. And I don’t care if he doesn’t respond, I will still tell him that I love him and wish him a good night.
Victoria Volk: The other thing that came up recently was and synchronistically that I wanna talk about in as it relates to changes in transition, is holding onto our youth. And moving your son to college it does cause me to reflect on my life and the time that I went to my college dorm and moved in and then moved out that same weekend because I freaked out because I was financially scared. I had a really overwhelming fear of debt. And later, I didn’t end up going to college for a year and a half, and then I was deployed with the military, and so that’s where that came to a close. But It caused me to reflect on my youth. Right? And my college experience that I didn’t get right? Because by the time I did go to college, I was in a little bit older adult.
Victoria Volk: And one thing I heard the other day and it’s really struck me and I’ll just share it. It’s a quote. And it was, it goes like this, “Everyone gets to be young, but not everyone gets to grow old.” “Everyone gets to be young, but not everyone gets to grow old.” And think about that the next time you have a birthday coming up. Maybe it’s your fortieth. Maybe it’s your thirtieth, fiftieth, one of those milestone-type birthdays that people make a big deal of. I did when I turned forty, like, oh my gosh. I’m forty, I’m like, half dead. I think I got one foot in the grave. We can be so dramatic about getting older. And here’s me. Like, I’m just wishing gosh. I wish I had this wisdom when I was eighteen. I wish I had this wisdom when I was my son’s age. I wish I had the wisdom I have now at eighteen.
Victoria Volk: And there’s that transition too of a parent than becoming a grandparent. That’s another transition that we get that we receive with age. If we’re so blessed to be a grandparent. Right? Not everybody gets that opportunity. So just like everyone gets doesn’t get the opportunity to grow old, not everyone gets the opportunity to be a grandparent. That’s a blessing to see your children have children. Like, not everyone gets that. And so if we focused on those things instead of the extra wrinkle we have, or the saggy skin or the, the breasts finding their way south, whatever it is. The lack of stamina, less energy, these things that can happen as we age. It just highlights the importance of self-care even more so that we can enjoy those things so that we can look forward to those things and feel vitality and joy instead of the pain in the back and the crook in the neck in the, what was me of aging? That so many people experience because they haven’t taken care of themselves.
Victoria Volk: Another thing you may not have thought of a transition or a change is going from being single to married. Some people might feel a loss of self or be fearful of feeling a loss of self. Oftentimes when people become married, they have to move. That comes along with grief experiences. It could if you’re in a neighborhood you love, or you had a job that you loved that moved you and you had to move. And then you lost your job too or you had to change careers or jobs because of a move. My husband moved for me, but I told him, I moved for one guy. I’m not moving for another. So he moved to be near me. And that was a sacrifice and a choice that he made. But I had a very clear boundary around that. Like, I did this ones before. I’m not doing that again. A lot goes into when you go from being single to married or dating to married. That’s a lot of change. It’s a lot of transition. And again, I think it comes down to honoring the boundaries that are two-sided.
Victoria Volk: And I’ll actually have a list of things to keep in mind. In any change or transition, but that’s one that keeps coming up as I’m talking here is the boundaries thing. And boundaries can be taken as a negative connotation, but boundaries are really I mean, they don’t have to be like, set in stone, like, verbal. I mean, it can be an energetic boundary too. Right? Like, just a way to protect your peace. It doesn’t have to be this negative thing that you impose on people. It’s honoring your peace, really.
Victoria Volk: Circling back to the so societal norms. Right? So you go from being single to dating to married, and now you have kids, well, now your new parents, oh my gosh, that’s a huge transition and a huge change. Not to mention, like, as a female, like, a woman, like all these hormonal changes, it’s so overwhelming. I just remember like, oh my god. How do people do this? And what I’m learning too with my energy type as a manifestor and having all three of my kids being manifesting generators like no wonder I was exhausted. Like they had energy to no end. And that’s not me. That is not me. Like, motherhood when they were little was, like, absolutely draining on me. And so when I started my business, it was I think out of survival of my sanity because I needed an outlet. I needed something that lit me up because parenting only drained me when they were little, drained my energy.
Victoria Volk: It wasn’t and the previous episode I recorded on this was how motherhood wasn’t necessarily the most fulfilling thing to me when my kids were younger. And I felt a lot of guilt and shame around that. So if you’re interested in that episode, that’s the one before this one. I mean, these are just few examples that I have been going through about change and transition and the grief that comes with it. So moving job change, I kind of mention that with relationships. Is often when that happens or once you become a family, the children are supposed to start school. You wanna put some roots down somewhere so they can get into a school system that, is the best fit for them or whatever the case may be. And with that, with a move or with a job change, I’ll plug Youmap again because if you’re feeling lost in that space of well, that wasn’t for me like, because all these experiences. They’re clarifying. What do I really desire? What is this showing me? What is this telling me? What do I need to learn here? Because if you’re feeling anger, if you’re feeling frustration, if you’re feeling those types of emotions, those are indicators that something isn’t right. You’re not in alignment, energetically, with yourself.
Victoria Volk: So what needs to change? And oftentimes with careers and jobs, that’s a very common experience is that if we are not in alignment with what we’re doing and spending most of our time doing that can create a lot of grief for us. A lot of people can experience loss of their loved ones, significant other, their spouse. And with that, you might come a new love into the picture. Someone another person you wanna share your life with. And depending on the phase of your life, like was, are you a young widow or widower? Or are you in your forties or older? Like, all of these things they influence how you might respond to the loss. If you have adult children, your spouse passed away of adult children. You’ll probably handle things. You will handle things much differently than if you had teenagers or younger children. So that’s a huge transition transition and change for the entire family. For the kids, whether they’re adults or young children, going from being in the office in your career job to being fully remote. A lot of corporations went fully remote. What is the impact on the social connection and support that employees feel in the workplace? I mean, we’re some for some people that was their only connection to the outside world. Let’s say you have a very small family unit, and your family unit lives two thousand miles away. And you’re living somewhere where you go into the office every day. And then all of a sudden, you’re not going into the office. You’re stuck in your apartment or are you stuck at home? You went fully remote or even hybrid. Hybrid is a little bit better for some people. Because especially those who, like, for example, I’m saying, who don’t have a lot of support system around them? So maybe that’s the only place where people might have connection and support or feel that in their lives. That’s an unfortunate place to be in. And so how can you widen that circle and expand and find your people.
Victoria Volk: And again, I mean, we can come back to the Youmap on that because I’ve actually given clients ideas on where to find expand on their interests to widen their circle of support. Because especially with COVID, I’ve had clients who’ve lost friends through that experience, whether the person died or it was a conflict of beliefs, which brings me to loss of friendships, and relationships, how we outgrow people, which is possible, like we can outgrow people, we have those relationships that may have just taken their course. Like, they’ve fully just ran their course and it is what it is. And if you were in close relationship with a friend and that ended that’s a hard loss too. Like for so many people, friendships are some of the most sensitive heartbreaking losses for some people. And so, yeah, we don’t think of those relationships necessarily all the time either when it comes to grief and loss. Everything has its season. Right? And so that brings me to seasons.
Victoria Volk: Some people have a really difficult time with the changing of seasons. You know, just like all these changes and transitions will have their seasons of ups and downs we have nature that reflects back to us, that nature itself has its ups and downs. It has this energetic thrusting of life to this polar opposite dormancy, especially where I live. We are in the darkness, most of our days are dark six months out of the year. When winter comes, it’s dark by five thirty PM until probably eight AM the next day. We have a lot less light. I didn’t realize how affected I was by the changing of the seasons until probably five, six years ago when I got a sad light, seasonal effective disorder light, I had to use that religiously for the first two years, like, to help me, like, when I know when I need it, I can feel it when I need it. It’s like, there’s something psychological too. I’m sure there’s a psychological component, because we need sunlight. Sunlight is our life-giving force. It’s our energy source for all life.
Victoria Volk: And so when that greatly decreases, we can experience these effects, these impact of that. I just wanna mention things to keep in mind through changes and transitions like these. As I’m thinking about wrapping this episode up. And there’s so many more. Like, if I would’ve taking more time to really think about reflect on my life, I would probably would have thought many thought of many more different changes and transitions over the years. But some things I want you to keep in mind when you’re thinking about things like this or you think of something new that you’ve experienced is that your response is up to you. It doesn’t it’s not up to anybody else. How do you wanna view the changes in transitions that you experience in your life? And your level of awareness is up to you as well. This is where emotional intelligence can play a role and how we build that is through our self-awareness. How do we become more self-aware? We pause and reflect.
Victoria Volk: So I encourage you as you’re going through a significant change or transition to pause and reflect on how you’re feeling, like checking in with yourself on how you’re feeling, how you’re doing, what your level of awareness is? Maybe try and put yourself in the shoes of those around you. Like, what is the impact I may be having with those around me as I go through this change or transition, like how am I projecting anything onto others? What do I need? Like, what are what are some of my needs as I go through this change and transition? And the things that are out of your hands need to be out of your mind. And I know that’s easier and said and done, but we only have so much mental real estate. And I have to remind myself often that if it’s out of my hands, I need to let it out of my mind. I am not doing myself any favors by bringing it to bed with me and ruminating and stewing on it. Write it out, talk it out, get it out in some way, let it out, let it go. Don’t let it take up mental real estate because you can’t let anything new if you’re bogging up your mind with shit that you can’t control. And that probably won’t matter in five days or five years. And the last thing is boundaries are two-sided, and I know I mentioned that a few times throughout this episode, but it bears repeating again that boundaries are two-sided. It’s not just your boundaries. Other people have boundaries too. And so where can you compromise? Do you need to compromise? Like what are the things you will not compromise on? Again, that comes back to what are your needs? What are your wants? And then picking your battles along the way.
Victoria Volk: I don’t know if you know this, but on my website, there is a link to I wrote a book. I self-published a book in twenty seventeen. It’s called “The guided heart moving through grief and finding spiritual solace.” And in a hundred and fifty-nine episodes, I think this is the maybe first or second time I’ve even mentioned my book. That book was written as I was reflecting on the changes and transition of closing my business and of my youngest going to kindergarten and just all of this spiritual stuff I was kind of experiencing and going through this a lot of growth was happening as I was writing that book. And so that book is really the stuff that I had been leaning on and leaning into for my own personal work and development, and healing. And so if I were to write a book today, which is brewing. It would be a very different book. Right? Because I’m in a very different phase of my life right now. And that is my intention to write another book. But I just wanted to share that with you that we will continue to have changes and transitions in our life because we can’t stop life from happening. My kids are gonna continue to get older. They’re gonna continue to move on with their lives. I’m going to continue to get older. Did I mention that already? Like, we can’t stop the age bus for ourselves or our kids. And just today, I’m just leaning into that message of not everyone gets to grow old and how blessed will I be if I get to. And so what do I want that time to be between the dash for me. I think there’s a poem between the dash. I’m gonna have to look that up. It’s a really moving poem about this one shot at life that we all get. And what do you want to put in that dash. What do you want your life to be made up of from the day you were born till the day you die? Because inevitably, it’s going to be filled with tears and transitions and changes.
Victoria Volk: And so if you need support as you navigate these things that will just can that will inevitably happen in your life, I do offer a in case you don’t know this either, I do offer a heart with ears session. It’s a one-off session or maybe two to just kinda talk through maybe a challenge or transition that you’re going through and you aren’t sure, you just need someone to talk it out. And to reflect back to you, something you can’t see yourself because we can’t see the inside of the jar of our own lives pretty much. So it’s helpful to have an outside perspective, someone who doesn’t even really know you. Who has nothing invested in your life and in your story. Right? Because it’s really hard for us to be biased unbiased rather. It’s really hard for us to be unbiased when the people we love are seeking our advice or counsel because we love this person or we’re close to this person or we’ve got some skin in their game. So that’s the benefit of talking with someone who is completely unrelated and doesn’t know you is that, I don’t have any skin in your game. So I’m gonna be completely honest with you. And so that’s something that I offer. It’s called a heart with ears. I can put a link to that in the show notes as well.
Victoria Volk: But yeah, yeah. Navigating tears through changes and transitions. Life is such a ride, isn’t it? I send you the biggest hug, lots of love today as you navigate, whatever change and transition you are going through. And I implore you to remember when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.