Ep 207 Tiff Carson | IVF Struggles, Divorce, Addiction Took My Brother, & Generational Trauma

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

In the quiet rustle of leaves and the gentle caress of a mountain breeze, Tiff Carson found an unexpected sanctuary. A portable chair became her throne as she nestled amidst nature’s embrace—mountains, rivers, lakes, oceans—in Victoria and Vancouver to weave tales not just with words but with her soul.

The waves whispered secrets and memories to Tiff; they took away bits of sorrow each time they retreated back into the ocean’s depths. It was here that she learned writing could be more than a craft—it was therapy.

“Give yourself grace,” an advice once enigmatic now resonated deeply within her being. On some days, grief clung like morning dew on grass blades – heavy and visible; on others, it receded quietly into shadowed corners of her mind. Through this oscillation between pain and peace, self-compassion became Tiff’s mantra.

Her voice rose above the stigma often shrouding mental health discussions as she advocated for open dialogue about generational trauma while highlighting how critical parental apologies are in healing old wounds.

Takeaways on this episode:

  1. Sibling grief is often overlooked but carries profound significance throughout one’s life.
  2. Early traumatic events can set individuals onto difficult paths; understanding these origins is crucial for empathy and support.
  3. Transparent communication about emotional pain within families is essential for collective healing.

Join me as we delve into these poignant topics that remind us all that while our journeys may be hard at times, they are also filled with beauty when approached with openness and vulnerability.

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The Echoes of Sibling Grief and the Power of Voice

Grief is a universal experience, yet it remains one of the most isolating journeys we can embark on. Tiff Carson, an Alberta-based author, podcast host, and speaker, understands this dichotomy all too well. Through her personal narrative involving sibling grief, trauma, and mental health challenges, Tiff sheds light on how our earliest experiences with loss shape us in profound ways.

Childhood Trauma: A Silent Specter

Tiff’s first encounter with grief was not through the passing of a family member but rather through a beloved pet dog named Mitzi who met an untimely death due to poisoning by a neighbor. This event was more than just a childhood tragedy; it became the inception point for Tiff and her brother’s journey through sorrow—a path that would diverge wildly as they grew older.

In many families like Tiff’s, discussing emotions is often seen as taboo—especially for men. This cultural norm meant suppressing feelings became second nature to them. But emotional suppression has long-term effects; it doesn’t erase pain but instead allows it to fester unacknowledged.

Adulthood: Struggles With Emotional Expression

Transitioning into adulthood brought new awareness for Tiff about these ingrained habits. She recounts her struggle to stop apologizing for showing emotions—a habit rooted deep in her upbringing where vulnerability equated weakness.

Her brother Corey took another route entirely; his gentle nature clashed against their culture of emotional stoicism. His story serves as a cautionary tale about what happens when unresolved traumas are left unchecked—he turned towards addiction at an early age because he didn’t have healthier outlets or support systems available.

Uncovering Hidden Pain

A move during their childhood isolated them further from others which eventually led to Corey enduring violent episodes with their father—an incident that remained hidden until years later. These traumatic events had far-reaching consequences leading Corey down a path marred by addiction struggles and legal issues before tragically losing his life to a fentanyl overdose in 2021.

The violence inflicted upon him by their father wasn’t just physical—it was verbal too—words that acted like daggers shaping Corey’s self-perception negatively throughout his life.

Healing Through Vulnerability

Through confronting these painful memories and dynamics within her own family unit—including learning about Corey’s buried traumas only after she faced mental health struggles herself—Tiff emphasizes the importance of addressing conflicts openly and expressing emotions without shame or guilt.

She advocates strongly for parental apologies as catalysts for healing hurtful interactions between parents and children—the act itself demonstrating vulnerability that strengthens relationships while teaching valuable lessons about accountability.

Even amid estrangement caused by differing views on accountability within families—as shown by her father’s refusal to acknowledge his role in Cory’s trauma—Tiff holds out hope for reconciliation through open dialogue underpinned by understanding each other’s vulnerabilities; essential steps toward mending generational wounds.

Episode Transcription:

Victoria Volk: Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, whatever time it is, you’re listening to this episode. Thank you for being here. My guest today is Tiff Carson. She is a passionate and inspiring author, podcast host and speaker based in Alberta, Canada. She has the unique perspective of having lived through her own complex journey of sibling grief, trauma, and mental health issues. Tiff believes when you use your voice, you create positive change for yourself and the world around you. Tiff’s goal is to inspire others by showing how she used her voice to heal. As a devoted mother of three children, TIFF is an advocate for breaking cycles of generational pain so that future generations can live healthier lives. She reminds us all that no matter what our journey looks like, it can be hard but also beautiful. Thank you so much for being here.

Tiff Carson: Thank you for having me

Victoria Volk: and for being open to sharing your story on my podcast because I know you have a podcast which is called

Tiff Carson: hard beautiful journey. And you’ve written a book called dancing in the rain,

Victoria Volk: which is not even in your bio.

Tiff Carson: Book title anyway.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. So I just wanted to pop that in here at the beginning here, and we’ll come we’ll circle back to that where people can find you and all of that at the end. But in your information that you shared with me, you you talk about the memoir and your a lot of your focus about the grief story that you wanted to share was about your brother. But what I know about grief personally and just all the stories that people have shared with me is that our grief tends to start pretty early on in our lives, in childhood. And you haven’t shared really any of that so much.
I mean, I’m sure your brother’s story has a little bit to do with that. I mean, if there’s an age gap, things like that.

Tiff Carson: But Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: What was your experience with grief as a child?

Tiff Carson: Well, the the ones that stick out for me, for sure, are my grandparents. That is Actually, before that, I lost a dog that was very, very, very big part of our family. And it was actually poisoned by one of our neighbors that absolutely despised dogs And so we were my brother and I are eighteen months apart, and then we have a younger sister that’s six years younger than me. So my brother and I were about seven and eight years old approximately, and it was our job to let our dog out. In the morning before school and to feed her. Her name was Mitsi. And and just do all the things with the dog. If we were gonna have this dog, we were responsible for it and which we loved. And so one morning, my brother let her out, took her outside, but then he came back in to finish getting ready for school. And then when he went to call her in, she was walking really really slow into the house.
And he was, like, calling for me and my mom and And so we went and right in our very back porch. She walked in the door and she literally collapsed and just died, like, right in front of our eyes. And so that was the first real like, what the heck happened and just the devastation of losing our little girl. And that was yeah, I can’t even describe how devastating it was for my brother too. Like, he was super, super close to her. He always was close with all of the dogs that he’s sewn in his life. So that was I would say that was our first big grief moment and trauma that we experienced. And then of course losing our grandparents and and seeing them deteriorate over the years and not really be themselves like some of them ended up with dementia or a form of dementia and so seeing them go from, you know, your grandparents like you knew them to not really being that was was definitely a difficult thing for us to experience. So, yeah, those were were the ones growing up for sure.

Victoria Volk: I was told to growing up that. I was too little to remember, but we had a dog that was supposedly had been poisoned too.

Tiff Carson: Oh, really? Yeah. It’s awful. It was it wasn’t just our dog. Like, it was they actually ended up having to call the police this family, this couple because they they were doing it to numerous dogs in the neighborhood. And ours was one of them. And then my parents went and got, this is crazy. So before that police were called, my parents, we waited they waited a few months for us to, you know, get used to, like, just go through the grief and stuff, and then they ended up getting another dog for us. We named her ginger. And same thing happened. But we got her to the vet before, and we brought her home, and she ran away. She was like, yeah, no. I’m not staying here. I’m not dealing with that. So, yeah, it was losing the dog and then getting another one and then her running away. And after that, we didn’t get another dog for a while. So I laugh now, but at the time it was like, this is not very good. This is sad.

Victoria Volk: So how was grief talked about in your home as growing up?

Tiff Carson: It wasn’t. Like ever. Ever. I saw my mom cry a lot growing up. But never my dad, never ever. I never saw my grandparents cry or show grief of any kind. The first time I saw my grandma cry and Joe Grieve was actually at my uncle, her son’s funeral. He passed away tragically. In a farming accident, and that was the first time I saw her outwardly grieve. And I was probably about twenty five years old then. So, like, it was it was just not shown whatsoever. It was sniff upper lip and hold it all in and be tough and that’s it. The the boys, the men were definitely held to that standard a lot more than the girls. I noticed that and I wrote about it in my book is be tough, suck it up, beat your your boy, your man. You know, those kind of words were were said. But I also saw it from the women. So it was definitely not as open to talk about the hard things as as it is now.

Victoria Volk: What impact did that have on you as you went into adulthood and experience more grief as we do in life? And and how did you see that? Maybe your brother handled it differently or did things differently from you? Like, how did you see that dynamic play out? Learning not learning about courage, right, and not talking about it, the impact that that had on each of you?

Tiff Carson: My brother was very I call him a gentle giant. He was always very open with his feelings towards certain people. And showed his emotions. Same with me. Like, I I definitely showed my emotions, but when it came to grief and I actually still catch myself doing it sometimes where I’ll start to cry and I’ll say, sorry, Sorry.
Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. You know, and I don’t know how many times in the last even week where I’ll cry and I’ll start to say that. And then I’m like, no, I’m not sorry. I’m not sorry. And it’s taken I’m almost fifty. And it’s taken almost fifty years for me to stop apologizing for showing emotion and being okay with it. So it it’s definitely been a difficult thing to just get past the I don’t know if it’s embarrassment or or the shame of being vulnerable. I don’t know. But in the last two years, definitely since my brother passed away, I’m learning to just say screw it. Like, I’m I’m okay. With you seeing this. And I am not a pretty cryer whatsoever. And I’m definitely okay with people seeing the real me and what I’m going through and what I’m experiencing because it’s giving them the freedom, I guess, the courage to do the same thing.

Victoria Volk: What’s your brother’s name? Corey, he talked about, you know, his struggle with addiction and things like that in your in the information you shared with me. When did those things start to come to light? How old were you? And I recognized you’re only eighteen months apart. My oldest two my oldest is a son and then I have a daughter and they’re eighteen months apart. Mhmm. And I I’m reading this book right now. The author will be coming on the podcast. It’s called always a sibling, and she talks about her brother passing. But what I never really connected or thought about until reading her book was that the relationship that we have with our siblings is the longest relationship we will have with anybody. Even if that person is not in your life, it’s still there’s still an emotional bond there. Of some sort, whether it be healthier or unhealthy, there’s still that connection. And it’s the longest connection. And I personally, I think sometimes your siblings, they know more about you than anybody else because they’ve seen you through your entire life. Right? Really into the music. Yeah. So feel free to share what you wanna share about that. And

Tiff Carson: well, the tears are already starting. So It’s okay. Wow. So, yeah, he was eighteen months older than me. I wrote about that in my book as well about the sibling relationship and sibling grief just in general. That it’s under recognized. Everybody definitely reverts to the parents first, which absolutely understand that as a mom. Absolutely understand that. And then if it’s, you know, an older person, like they revert to the wife and the kids of that person. But there’s very, very few people that actually ask how you’re doing as the sibling of somebody who’s passed away and they were the closest person to you growing up for many years.
Right? And there’s lots of times where you have many siblings. So it just compounds. Right? So I definitely wanted to bring that to late in my book.
So he was eighteen months older than me, and we literally literally were attached at the hip. Growing up. Like, there’s this many pictures, but there’s this one picture. We had, like, white white white hair big blue eyes and, like, if you saw one, there was the other one right beside. And we just we lived in a small town We went everywhere together. We did everything together. And he was my best buddy. And then my sister was born when he was seven and I was six. And so she was like our little baby doll and it was just awesome having a new little sibling and but we were still connected, like super connected. We did lip synch concerts together.
We we did everything. And then we moved a few times. My dad is a musician, was a musician. And so wherever he was playing the most, in his band, we would kinda like move into that area. So we moved a few times. Usually between two locations, And the one move the one last move before everything changed was very, very hard on him and I, my brother and I, because we moved to a farm. And we were not farmers at all. And it was very isolating for us. And we we were very social kids, like we in the house the neighborhood we lived in before, moving to the farm, we were Like, there was just the neighborhood gang. Like, you know what I mean?
Like, the big neighborhood gang of kids, we would just play hide and seek and we wouldn’t we wouldn’t come home till, like, ten at night and just we would be with our friends all the time, and then we were on a farm. And it was like, what where are we? Why are we here? And it was it was a really big adjustment for us in a lot of ways. And something happened when my brother was thirteen living on that farm that I didn’t know about until three years before he died. And but something happened to me around the same time from my brother. My brother beat me up. To uphold in our kitchen on the farm. And I had no idea why, like zero idea. It just came out of nowhere and because him and I were super close. And then all of a sudden, he beat me up. And I was terrified of him after that, and I didn’t know what happened. And then, what happened after that? He used to be or that happened. He was a very talented hockey player, very good athlete. Like, he was being looked at by lots of people because he was just so good, so fast, the goal score. And then all of a sudden, like that, it just changed. And he we call it I call it in my book. He started running. He just he was he just didn’t want to be anywhere near us, nowhere near our family. He was getting into trouble. He was doing DNEs. He was getting into fights. He was he got some assault charges and it literally from thirteen till he was twenty seven. He was in and out of jail, he was constantly in trouble with the law. And that’s when he started getting addicted to drugs and alcohol. And so him beating me up and then going the direction that he was I didn’t understand why he was doing that and why that happened. And it just made this huge wedge between us. And I was so angry at him for doing what I thought he was doing to my parents and like just not just not being a good kid and like, why are you doing this? So he went one direction and I literally went the other.
And I was like, because around town in this small community that we lived in, our last name is Carson. So he would they would say, oh, that Carson kid. Oh, that Carson kid. Just like his dad, that carson kid. Right? And so, like, that was what I heard around town and I made it my mission to not be another Carson kid. I was gonna be a different Carson kid. And so he went that direction and I went to the overachiever. Like, I am going to show you all that I am not like him, and that has literally moved in to my life in so many ways. Like, it just I’m an overachiever still to this day. And so Yeah. That that’s how the the addiction came around was at that time of his life, and it it continued on for the rest of his life until he passed away and he passed away of a of a fentanyl overdose in twenty twenty one.

Victoria Volk: One change. Right?

Tiff Carson: Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: We never know what’s gonna change the trajectory of our lives. Yep. We’re just, you know, in the the ripples of the decisions that we make as parents. Right? And the impact that that has. And cause and effect has been something that’s really come up a lot for me lately. We learn that concept as young children, you know, you touch the burner, the hot burner on the stove, you’re gonna get burned. Right? Nope. There’s a cause and effect. No. Now I’m not gonna touch the burner because I’m gonna get my hand burned. But we never really why that same principle to our lives really. We don’t think about the impact of our words. We don’t think about, you know, the cause and effect. Of our words and our actions and our choices and our decisions and how that affects everybody else in our lives. Mhmm. Are you open to sharing? What what it was that he was projecting so much of his anger out? On you and the rest of the family and

Tiff Carson: Yeah. It’s I wrote about it in a book and And it’s amazing how when these things happen, how it is a learning lesson for me now as a parent and how it’s changed by parenting. It was something that happened between my dad and my brother. So my sister and I and my mom had gone out of town for a few days. And my brother stayed home with my dad to help him around the farm and my dad was playing in the band in the town that we lived in, and he asked my brother to stay home and not go out. But my brother, like I said, he hated the farm. He hated the isolation. He hated it with a passion. And So he got on his bike, and he rode his bike to a nearby community where some of his friends live. And he got a ride home from some people with his bike, and the lights were off when he got home. So he thought he got home before my dad did. And when he went in the house, the lights came on. That’s my dad’s m l’s sitting in the dark because that’s what his parents did. And the lights came on and my dad was there and From what my brother has told me and my mom and a trauma therapist, he pummeled him. He beat him into oblivion where he could hardly even walk up the stairs to his bedroom. And when he got up the next morning, he said that my dad didn’t even bat an eye when he saw his black eyes. And he said that my dad said if you’re not going to respect what I have to say and listen to me, then you can just leave. I’ll pay you and you can just leave. And, yeah, when I it looks like So I’ve done this so three years before he died from my mom. And literally as she was telling me this story. At first, I was like, there’s no way my dad did that. There’s no way. Like I I just instantly went to denial. But in my soul, it was like she was handing the puzzle piece. Like, here you go. Because not long after that happened to my brother, my brother beat me up. And he was so angry at me and my little sister for not getting the same treatment as him. And literally, that’s when he started running. He was like, hey, he doesn’t want me here, so I’m just gonna go. I’m gonna go. I’m gonna run. He told me to leave. So that’s what happened. There was another incident couple years actually before that that he actually got severely beaten by my grandpa in front of all of us. So a lot of a lot of physical violence where he felt like he wasn’t loved by the male, influences in his life, and that’s very, very devastating to the foundation of a boy. But why I say that’s a lesson for me now is parenting is so hard. All three of my kids were IVF, babies. It took ten years to get them. Ten very long years to get them, and all three of them were diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. Oppositional defiant disorder. And so they have been a very difficult parenting journey, very difficult. So I get the the difficulty of parenting to my core. Like, I get it. And even with the difficulties and things that are said or done in the heat of a moment when you’re angry, when you’re upset, all of that. The thing that I’ve learned from all of this from my brother’s journey is that how you handle the after. How you handle when you’ve done or said something that could have hurt somebody else, like your children, Take the time you need. First, take the time you need to decompress and or walk away or breathe or something. But then come back and actually have a conversation with them. And I have done that so many times since I’ve learned about my brother’s drama. And I know it is making a difference with my kids and my relationship with them. Because I I, like, I wrote about it in a book. There was one morning where my boys were just so so disrespectful for to me, we are on our way to a doctor’s appointment for for one of them and They weren’t listening, they weren’t talking back. It was just it was a horrible morning. And I said the same things my dad did. I said, if you’re not gonna listen to me, then you’re not gonna live here. Get out of my house. I said the same words my dad did. And I went into my room to get ready, and I was so mad at myself. I was so mad that I chose those words to say to my kids, but I also gave myself grace that you know, this is hard. And I came out of the room and they were balling, like getting on their backpacks and trying to get their shoes on, and they were crying. And one of my boys said, you’re the worst mom ever who tells their kids to leave And the other one was looking at me with, like, literally tears streaming down his face. He’s like, where are we supposed to go? I don’t know where we’re supposed to go. And like just balling. And we get in the car.
And before I started driving, I just turned they were sitting in the back and I turned around and I just said, I am so sorry for what I said to you. I didn’t mean what I said. But I want you to know why I said it and why I got to that point because this was going on. And I said, but I never should have send those words to you, and I hope that you forgive me. And both of them were just like, we’re so sorry, mom.
Like, we know what we were doing was not Right? And and one of my boys said, you know, mom, it’s okay if people cry. Like, I know it is, buddy. And it’s okay if you cry right now too, and he started crying again. And then my other boy, their twins.
He said, yeah, who cares if people see it and say anything? So I was just like, good for you, like, good for recognizing that. There is nothing wrong with showing vulnerability. And since that day, I that’s what I do. If there’s something that has come up and there’s something that was hurtful, I address it sooner than later because all my dad had to do all he had to do was say, sorry, That’s it.
That is it. And it would have changed their whole relationship. So all it takes is I’m sorry. We were both Ryan.

Victoria Volk: How old are your children?

Tiff Carson: Fifteen year old daughter and eleven year old twin boys.

Victoria Volk: I recently listened to a meditation that has you imagining your inner child? That’s hard. Mhmm. Mhmm. Like, what would you say to your younger self, you know? Mhmm. And I, like, feel this, like, for your brother, like this, sadness of not feeling wanted It’s that indifference. I think that’s almost I don’t know if it’s worse. They say in psychology, they say it’s worse. Like, Yeah.

Tiff Carson: Yeah. So when I learned about his trauma, Well, in all of these things, but there’s even more, but those are the that’s the big ones or some of the big ones. But it it it was I literally because I was going through my own mental health challenges with my, like, going through in in fertility and our kids and I I had a complete mental breakdown. And it was around the same time where I learned about this. And I was walking on a beach in North Carolina. I went to a mom’s retreat, and I was walking on a beach in North Carolina, and I just walking by myself and I was like, k. If I can give myself grace and love myself with all of this stuff that I’m going through, I absolutely can give my brother that same, and because he’s experienced way more than me. And I wrote this in the book. I chose to love him through it. Everything that he was going through, everything that he was still experiencing with his addictions, which had not gone away.
They were getting worse. And for those who have known an addict, had a family member that’s an addict, it is a very difficult relationship. Very and so me choosing to love him through it. Was a huge step. It was huge just based on everything that had happened over the years. But when I tell you, it’s quite good. When I made that decision, he could feel it. He could actually feel the change. He could feel it in how I looked at him, how I talked to him, how I just sat with him, how everything everything changed when I made that decision, to love him through it. And our relationship was immediately back to when we were little kids. Immediately because he could feel it, I could feel it, and then it’s, like, I need to be there for you. I’m gonna be there for you, and I’m never gonna leave you. And, yeah, I’m just I’m so grateful that he chose to use his voice. He was the one who told my mom about what happened to him because none of us knew. None of us knew what happened to him and why his life went that way. And he chose to tell my mom, and then my mom chose to tell me. And if he wouldn’t have done that, we wouldn’t have gotten to where we were before he died. And so he he gave me the biggest gift. All of us the biggest gift by sharing what what happened to him and being vulnerable. I have no regrets now with how our relationship was when he passed away because it was beautiful.

Victoria Volk: Where is your dad and all of those?

Tiff Carson: My dad just read the book recently. During the three years when I found out about what happened, I had a hard time understanding him. I didn’t and still have never stopped loving my dad because he’s my dad. And like I said, I understand the challenges of parenting and I I give him grace and all of that. Right? But but I still have a really hard time with him not accepting and admitting and acknowledging the pain and the trauma that changed my brother’s life. My dad will not acknowledge it. And he will go to his grave with not fully acknowledging what was done, what was said, and that’s heartbreaking. His stance. I just talked to him two weeks ago about it because he was very angry at me for the book even though I asked him repeatedly for his side of the story repeatedly asked him for his side. Because there is always two sides. And he just says it’s the way that they were raised, and he my brother was not behaving was not listening. And my brother was out of control and all of this kind of stuff. And I can’t change his mind. I can’t make him acknowledge anything, and I I have to come to peace with that. Or I won’t have a relationship with my dad either. But I am very okay with me sitting in the hard and talking things out and just saying, okay, this is where we’re at. I know your mat like, I went and saw them two weeks ago, and you could tell he was very angry at me, very and he was just gonna I call it sweeping it under the rug. He was just gonna sleep it under the rug, like nothing. Not talking about it. And he was sitting on one of their swings. Like, it’s a two seater. And I just said, so may I come and sit beside you? And he’s like, sure. So I went and sat beside him and and I just I was vulnerable and I just said, okay.
Let’s talk about it. You’re obviously upset with me for what I wrote, so let’s let’s talk. And so he wasn’t going to it first, and then he did, and he was upset with what I wrote and wish that he would’ve I would’ve given I would’ve asked him his side of the story. I’m like, pretty sure I did many times. And that I didn’t talk about my mom’s side of the family in the book? Just his side? And I was trying to explain to him that that none of the things that happened to me and my brother happened at the hands of my mom’s family. So talking about my mom’s family’s issues, wouldn’t have related to my brother and I in our journey. So yeah, I understand that I talked about the Carson side, but that’s because stuff happened with the Carson side. That changed our relationship and changed people’s lives. And when I talk about I didn’t wanna be a Carson kid, I went through a divorce two years ago. It was just made official in May of this year. And I have been working tirelessly to get my name back. To be a Carson. And I told him, I wouldn’t be doing this. If I didn’t love the cars to pick me because it’s not easy. To go back to your maid and maid here in Canada anyways. And I said that’s how much I love the Carson family. I just don’t love some of the things that happened in the Carson family. So that’s kind of where our relationship is at right now. It’s strained, but I’m okay with that. Because It took a year and a half to write this book. And there was many times where I almost stopped writing. And I kept hearing no. Keep going. Keep going. Put it all in. Put it all in. And I know. How many people that’s helping already, and that’s worth it to me.

Victoria Volk: Comes back to the cause and effect. And perhaps maybe you don’t see yet how this may unlock something for your father. Credit. You know, it’s again, you you kinda touched on it on the information you shared, but this generational trauma, the generational belief systems, and the generational patterns, and we, I think, subconsciously, pass on to our kids unintentionally.

Tiff Carson: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: And clearly, there is something your dad is holding on to.

Tiff Carson: Oh, yes. And it’s in the book as well. The things that my dad experienced.

Victoria Volk: Oh, so you know?

Tiff Carson: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Okay.

Tiff Carson: It’s in the book as well. Not in great detail, but it was more so at the hands of his mom than his dad. He actually went to live with his grandparents because it was such a bad relationship. He says it was also because they didn’t have enough room. There were all of the kids. There were six kids. It was a small house. His grandparents lived across the street. He’s like, I’m just gonna go live there. But there was times where he lived or stayed at the church with the nuns. It was yeah. He he had a very very hard upper need as well. This violence and and, like I said, sweeping things under the rug. We’re not talking about it. We are not talking about it. We are not dealing with this. Nothing happened. My grandma, my dad’s mom, had many mental health challenges. There was many times where she wouldn’t come out of her room. And they had to fend for themselves. So a lot of stuff and he’s just choosing to not go there. And and that’s his choice. And I I cannot that’s what I’ve come to realize is I cannot force anybody to do their own work, but I can do my own. And I’m going to continue doing my own and showing other people how I’m doing the work on myself and if it inspires them to do the same, fantastic. But I I cannot force anybody anymore. All I can do is my own thing, my own work.

Victoria Volk: You shared how you decided that you were going to love your brother. Through it. Have you given any thought to what that would look like if you chose to do that with your father?

Tiff Carson: I have chosen to load him through it. Actually, when I found out that he had read it, and that he was angry at me. At first, my initial reaction, knee jerk reaction was, like, Well, screw you. Like, you you know, like, I was just angry back at him. And that was that only last maybe a day. And but I was very angry at him for some of the things that he was saying to me and then I actually heard I I hear my brother often, his spirit. And I I heard him say, Love them through it. Love them through it. And I made the decision two weeks ago, two and a half weeks ago. I’m gonna love them through it because I kid. He was a little boy too. That experience and really hard things. And that’s my generational trauma is hard. And But my my whole goal, my whole purpose, I know, is to shine a light on it. And do like, what I’m doing with my kids is let’s talk about this stuff let’s work through it. Let’s stop sweeping stuff under the rug. Let’s get to a place where Your heart is okay. Before we move on. Because I’ve seen what it’s done to my dad, and I’ve seen what it’s done to my brother. And I don’t want that for my kids. I don’t want that for your kids. I don’t want that for anybody’s kids because I lived with it. And I wouldn’t want anybody’s life to play out the way that my brothers did in some respects. He did have many good moments in his life. But the hard parts, I wouldn’t want that for anybody. Because it was very, very, very difficult for him.

Victoria Volk: There is this thought that I think in psychology that young girls, women tend to marry someone like their father. That can be good or bad. Right? Had you married someone who had those qualities like your father?

Tiff Carson: That’s a interesting question. In some respects, yes, and then some no. My ex husband, who’s a very good father in terms of, like, always wanting to do stuff with them and is very active in their lives. And but he’s also a non talker. Let’s see. There is nothing to see here, folks. That’s not, like, what? You wanna talk? Oh, no. Okay. So, like, those kind of similarities are definitely there. And that was hard for me, especially over the last ten, eight, to ten years as I was, like, starting to, like, you know, I need to talk about this stuff or I’m gonna neither this is not gonna end well. And I wasn’t getting any any of it back and returned. And that was very difficult on our marriage for sure.

Victoria Volk: With the diagnosis of the children. I imagine that that brought up a lot of feelings from the past. Of the anger that you witnessed in the home. Did so did you have this I mean, did you have this United Front with your spouse to work through those struggles? Or do you feel like those were some of the things that your marriage just couldn’t. Where you couldn’t come together?

Tiff Carson: No. The so we we tried for five years before we ended up finally getting our daughter after we were married. But we started the fertility process one year after we were married because you have to wait the year here in Canada. If it’s not working. And he was very supportive in that whole journey to the point where my body actually was they they said that it was I was thirty How old was I thirty one ish at thirty thirty one when I started the fertility program, and my body was acting like mid forties. It just was not. It wasn’t doing what they thought it was going to do. I was on the highest dose possible of in fertility of IVF drugs. And I was still not producing follicles like I should have been there was one point where there was so much blood work and so many ultrasound that my husband ended up not going to all of them just because there were so many. But on this one particular day, he decided to come. He said, no, I’m gonna come with you. And if he didn’t come that day, we wouldn’t have our daughter. Because they did their normal blood work and ultrasound, and then they they normally you just go home and go back a couple days later. But this day, they said, Kate, we need you to meet across the room in that boardroom. And I knew it was not good. And the doctors came in and nurses and they said, so it’s not looking good for this cycle. You’re not producing enough molecules at this point where you should be, and you either can stop the cycle now and wait about three months because you have to wait for your system to get back to a little bit of normalcy. Or we keep going and we try for the best and see if there’s any changes in the next couple of days. And I was so exhausted because this was our second second attempt at In vitro. And we had already done all of the other stuff, like IUI’s intrauterine and semination stuff.
We had already done all of those. And I was gonna just say no more. I’m done. And James, my ex husband said, no, we’re going. We’re gonna keep going.
And I just I know it’s gonna work. We’re gonna keep going. And we got three follicles and we got enough embryos and my daughter. It happened. We got our daughter. So he was definitely a rock for me during all of that. When we got when we had her, it was, like, the biggest blessing in the world. And then but we didn’t have any more embryos left. And so if we were gonna do it again, we’d have to start all over again. And it’s very expensive. And we just we’re happy with having her daughter. And I don’t know what about when she was three years old, we started talking again and said, do you wanna try it again? And his parents loaned us the money, and we started again. And this time, I don’t know if, like, things cleared up down there or what, but it went better than the first time. And we ended up with Twin Boys. And so it was but it was hard. It was ten years. So there’s four and a half years between our daughter and our sons. And but it’s very hard on a marriage. In the respect that you you have the expectation that your bodies are supposed to do these things. Naturally, that your failure if you don’t. And him and I are both extreme high achievers my overachiever tendency came flying through, and it was just very hard to wrap my head around the back that I couldn’t become a mom the natural way. And it was for him too. Like, there was many times where he would say something off the cuff, like, Yeah. Well, like, I’m not able to have a kid normally, like, everybody else and and, like, a man going in and doing that thing and in a fertility clinic is not romantic for one thing. What’s leverage? So, yeah, it’s very hard on marriages, very difficult on marriages. And them to go through that journey of just trying to get them here. And then to have the parenting struggles that we’ve had with them, that’s when I I had my my mental breakdown. I was just so so angry as God. I remember hiding behind the clothes in my closet, hiding from my kids, because I was so done. I was just done with everything. And I just said, why why? Did it take ten years to get them for us to not enjoy, be able to do them? Because it was not enjoyable whatsoever. And while I was saved in that closet, I saw a fork, like a fork in the road. In my mind, I saw it for it. And it was checkout. I completely checkout. I’m like, as in not be here anymore or get help because I was that far gone. And I sat in there for a very long time and cried and was very angry. And when I finally came out of there, I phoned my mom And I said, I need you to come and help you. And she did. Right away that night. And I went to my therapist And I took three months off of work, and I took care of myself.
And in that therapy session, one of them, my therapist said, you know you’re supposed to do something with this pain. Right? You’re supposed to do something with your journey. And I didn’t know what she meant by that. But it’s stuck in my brain. And then it came to me over time. And I was like, I’m supposed to talk about this. Supposed to talk about this. Alright. And so that’s how my podcast came to me. Hard beautiful journey is sharing our story. That’s how it started. Was sharing our journey through infertility and our parenting struggles with kids with ADHD and OCD and everything that goes into that. And I honestly thought that before I did it, I sat down with James, my ex, and I I had written everything out and I read it to him. But I said, are you okay? If I do this, if we share this, and he was completely on board, completely. And I had the thought if I share all of this and that’s all that happens is I share that and nobody listens or nobody cares. Cool. It’s out there. And that isn’t what happened. Everybody was like, oh my lord. Thank you for sharing that. And I’m now at ninety episodes and still going. And I’m I’m talking with other people who are sharing their hard beautiful dirty and who are sharing their stories and being vulnerable in helping one other person in the world by doing so. So that’s how that all came to be.

Victoria Volk: And now you’re on my podcast.

Tiff Carson: And now I’m here. So I’m on a break from my podcast right now for this emerge. And the reason why is because I wanted to share my story on other people’s podcasts and be a guest for once. So I have been enjoying being on this side of the microphone and being asked the questions in a different way to also make me think about different parts my story because it’s an ongoing healing journey every day. And so, like, you bringing up these questions to me is helping me heal more. And even though I’m crying, I see those tears since healing tears. Not anything to be ashamed of.

Victoria Volk: How long ago was that time in the closet?

Tiff Carson: Twenty eighteen. It was no. Sorry. Twenty seventeen. Twenty seventeen, and it was twenty eighteen that I found out about my brother and his stuff. So twenty seventeen, I was going through a lot of therapy. Really working on my own healing journey, and that when and then into early twenty eighteen is when I went to that mom’s retreat in North Carolina. And and I had just found out about my brother’s stuff as well. So it was a lot I was processing a lot of that stuff with my brother and my dad through therapy as well because it did bring him up. What happened between me and my brother that helped me understand our journey. So, yeah, that two year period was pretty, pretty difficult. But it’s it’s just gotten it’s an interesting thing because it it was it’s gotten easier, but also hard because of the grief of losing him and then my marriage ending. But it’s because of the work that I’m doing on myself that I know that’s why I’m getting through these things. Otherwise, I would not be here like at all because it was so difficult before I started getting therapy and talking with people and just being vulnerable. And hearing other people’s stories and sharing experiences and knowing I’m not alone in all of those things have helped me get through these grief journeys because if I would have kept it to myself and just sat here and did nothing, It would have been not a good good situation.

Victoria Volk: Where are things at now with your ex husband and the kids and the dynamics of all of that? Like, how how have you navigated all of that?

Tiff Carson: Well, that is a very good question. Well, Trying to decide how much to share. So there was a lot of rejection that I faced in our marriage from my ex husband. A lot of rejections intimately and connection lines. And there was a point when my daughter was one years old that I almost left him because it had been eleven years of it. And I I know someone that stems from the infertility and, like, the failure side of it and but it would it just wasn’t getting any better. And finally in when my brother passed away. Things hadn’t been really good for about a year before he passed away. But when my brother passed away, James gave me a couple of big hugs to comfort me. And I realized I hadn’t been in his arms like that.
For many years. And I I was like, well, why did it take losing my brother for this to happen. So that after he died, I was just like, what? Why. You know? And that’s when I my brother dying was a wake up call for me. It’s like life is too short. Life is too short. And I don’t think our kids ever saw us hug. Kiss, hold hands, maybe hold hands, maybe once. And that’s it. We were roommates. Taking care of their kids quite literally. And I tried numerous times over the twenty years that we were together to get us to a place where we could be intimate and connect connected and all of it. I don’t know how many times, countless times. And things would get good for a couple weeks and be kind of like, hey, let’s just shut her up. Let’s satisfy her. You know? And then then it stopped. And it was just as a cycle and it just kept happening over and over and over again. And then my brother died and I was like, no, I need more from this. And so I asked for a trial separation. And him and I went to marriage counseling. And we went separately. We went together. And our therapist said, in this three month trial, let’s try it for three months, I need you to focus on yourself, only yourself. And nobody else, no there’s no third parties, nothing. And he chose not to do that. So that was really hard. Again with the rejection. And so but I also made it. I wanted my kids to not deal with any of that. I wanted them to have parents that weren’t fighting, that weren’t you know, mad at each other. And so I I that’s where I did shove stuff. And I I was I said, k. I’m gonna be I’m gonna be friends with them at least. And that was working for a bit, but then I realized that it was actually harming my healing process. And just recently over the last couple months, I put in some pretty firm boundaries that no. I no. You have your new life, and I have mine And the only thing that we need to talk about is our kids. And that’s it. And maybe one day, we’ll get back to that place where we’re friends, but not right now. And that’s very, very hard for me because It’s really hard for people to understand this much. The one thing that we did have at our marriage was a friendship. We had a really good friendship, and now I don’t have that, and that’s what I miss the most. So a lot of grief. A lot, a lot of grief over the last three years. A lot of tears. A lot of guttural crying like where I’m like, you know, the type crying where it’s like, an animal was coming out of you. But a lot of really good days too. A lot of really good days. And so when I’m having the low moments? I know I call it my roller co I have the craziest rollercoaster. I swear to God. It’s God. So many twists and turns and ups and downs. And I’m also going to prepare a bed and pause, so there’s a head too. But I know that when I’m hitting that low on my roller coaster, I know I’m coming out of it a lot sooner, a lot quicker than I used to. And I can feel that. I’m not stained in those little moments as long as I was before, and it’s because I’m talking. And if I need to and I’m writing a lot and I’m breathing, I’ve started doing breath work. And I would meditate as well, but the breath work has really, really helped me. I am walking like I have never walked in my life. Like, it is crazy how much walking I am doing. And it is helping my moods, my mindset. I cry when I walk. I smile when I walk. You name it. I do it all. I listened to music. And, yeah, it’s It’s been a crazy three years.

Victoria Volk: How are the kids doing?

Tiff Carson: They I like I said, I talked to them all the time. All the time. And At first, it was very difficult for them. But I am proud of James and I or that period of time in the initial separation and and all of that where we did have the United front where we were both there for them. And being friends because it it was an easier transition for them and easier change for them in some regards. In some instances, I think it also confused them. And when I knew and felt that they were confused, I talked to them. Because I can see and feel the confusion. And I am not even exaggerating. I talk to them all the time. If I feel like they’re having a hard day, with something or when they’re moving between his house and my house. Like, I give them on the day that it happens and they’re coming back to me, I give them so much grace if there’s something that they’re, you know, in a bad mood or because what happened actually when we separated is we we were so amicable that we bought a condo together for him and I to move in and out of. Every week and our kids would stay home in the family home until we sold it or until we made the decision that it was going to happen. We are gonna get a divorce. And so him and I were moving back and forth or six months. And so we got that experience of moving. And I’m so grateful for that. Because it gave me so much compassion and empathy for that aspect of my kid’s life now that you don’t really get settled. And I yeah, it it’s not not easy for them to do that. Right? And so when they come back to me, when they go back to him, when they come back to me anyway, I give them that time to adjust, and then I check-in with them and, yeah, this very open communication with them.

Victoria Volk: Since that experience of you moving back and forth, informed you of how hard that can be. What kind of decision did you come to together then as far as joint custody and visitation on that.

Tiff Carson: We have fifty-fifty. So we switch every week. Yeah. We have them for one week at a time and we’re very, very, very good co parents. That is even with the boundaries that I’ve put in place and the distancing myself from him in the friendship way, we are really good co parents.

Victoria Volk: It’s great to hear. Really good and

Tiff Carson: I hope to god that never changes. Ever because I just know and seen when it isn’t that way, and I I also know why it can’t be that way if some of the people in the relationship are not cooperative or just narcissists or whatever. Right? There’s a variety of reasons why it can’t be that way. If anything out of our infertility journey and our parenting struggles in it, those moments where I was, like, mad at God for this, I’m grateful that we have this parenting, co parenting.
Relationship. I’m grateful for that because those times where There’s maybe only been three times in the last couple of years where I was just so angry about him. For something that he did or said, and then I didn’t talk to him for a week. Try parenting and organizing three kids schedules with sports and schools and all of it, and you’re not talking with them. It’s impossible. And So, yeah, I just I made the decision and I told him everything is for the kids. And I will strive to be the best co parent with you because they deserve it. And we deserve it after how hard we work to get them here.

Victoria Volk: You mentioned how you were angry with God a couple of times. Where do you sit with that now?

Tiff Carson: I’m at a place of peace with it and understanding. And it was literally from what my therapist said, when she said, you know, you’re supposed to do something with this. There’s a purpose behind it. And when I finally understood that, that I was supposed to help other people with this stuff, and that everything is a lesson and that we’re meant to help each other. I’m not supposed to keep all of this to myself and just suffer in silence. I was meant to help somebody else with my story. And when I finally understood that, I was like, okay, I got it. Got it. God. Alright, but I could use about five minutes off now. Give me a break and then talk to anybody. Just give me a break from the grief for a while. And I think he has for a while. Oh, yeah. That’s growing up.

Victoria Volk: I think we’re on the same mission, and my story kinda came to be too because you know, it’s one thing to to hold it in. And then once you start using your voice, like you said, it’s healing to hear other people’s stories and to share parts of your own with others. And so I might podcast is called craving voices. Mhmm. You know, people can come on and use their voice because I’ve personally learned that that is a way to heal. Mhmm. And process and, like, as we’re talking about it, we’re kind of we’re processing it. There’s always something else to discover and we don’t connect those dots and we don’t recognize those things when Our lips are sealed.

Tiff Carson: Nope. Absolutely.

Victoria Volk: Then it’s our mind and our ego. That’s just run-in

Tiff Carson: the show. Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: We’re not connecting with our hearts. So

Tiff Carson: Yeah. Soon as you connect with your heart, it all changes.

Victoria Volk: And it’s game on. That’s really hard.

Tiff Carson: It’s game on and it’s like, okay. Here we go. But it’s worth it in my opinion.

Victoria Volk: So what has your grief taught you?

Tiff Carson: It has taught me that I am. I don’t wanna use the word strong. I am really, I’m strong, but I am love. That’s what it’s taught me. Is that I know how to load.

Victoria Volk: Even when it’s hard. Even when it’s tough. Tell me the significance of

Tiff Carson: four forty four. My brother. The moment he died has been showing me four, four, four, four, in the most craziest places. I believe in angel numbers and angel signs and Yeah. From the moment he died, I have been seen four, four, four, four. And Not long after he died, after his funeral, I went to Texas for a work conference. And I was driving on the interstate. My Corpus Christi in this billboard. One of those electronic ones, and all seven, four, four came up on the mailboard. That’s it. I’m, like and then on the radio, his songs came on just, like, right away. Like and that’s when I was, like, So at first, I I didn’t understand the four four four, like, when he first passed. But then when that happened, I was like, oh, that’s your sign for me. Okay. Alright. Fine. And now it’s like everywhere. Like, I actually have screenshots on my phone when I wake up. And I checked my phone and it’s four four four license plates. On the yeah.
Everywhere. Everywhere.

Victoria Volk: I am there’s a website I I I believe in that stuff too. And there’s a website that I I looked it up. And you probably have two, I’m sure. Yes. But what I looked up and what it right says is that angel number four four four brings a message that all as well. Trust that you are on your correct life path and are doing a great job.

Tiff Carson: He is with me, guided me through this whole thing. He was when I was writing the book too. I felt him with me every everywhere when I wrote. Like, I would actually take my I write if I tried to write in my house or No. No.
No way. And I things would distract me. I’d have laundry to do. You name it. Right?
I No. A good show was on. So I would grab this chair of mine, like a beach chair kind of thing. And I would take it out to the mountains and I would sit in the mountains, buy a river, or buy a lake, and I would write. And he was always with me. Always. Like, I can feel him with me. And I would write by I went out to the ocean. I went out to Victoria and Vancouver, and I wrote by the ocean. And how I would describe my writing at some point was the waves when they were coming in were bringing stories to me. They were bringing memories and they were bringing, like, all of our childhood stuff. And, like, it was, like, I was typing and they were, like, bringing them in. And then when they were going out, it was taking all the sadness and all of the pain. And it was just kinda like this in and out. And I have goosebumps right now because that’s how it was working for me. So if I ever couldn’t if I was having a writer’s block or couldn’t get through a part of the book. I would grab my laptop and my my chair and I would head out to the mountains and Yeah. It just came and water and nature was so healing for me. In my writing journey. And when I write my next book? Because I know I’m meant to write another one. I will definitely do the same thing because that’s what worked for me.

Victoria Volk: I love that. Thank you for sharing that. What is the best piece of advice you had received other than, you know, you have to do something with this pain. Mhmm. What was the best piece of advice you received while you were going through all this? And he lost a friendship too, but is that aside from your x?

Tiff Carson: Yes. And that one I’m not quite ready to talk about yet. That one will be definitely in the second bucket. But the best piece of advice, I think, I got was honestly, it was give yourself grace. And First, I didn’t know what that meant.
And I was just like, what does that mean? Give myself grace. And now I find myself saying that took third people, and I actually just made a post about it the other day. It was give yourself grace, and then give yourself more grace, and then give yourself more grace. Because life can be really, really hard, really, really hard.
And you I got up. I got out out of bed and I had a shower and I brushed my teeth and some days, I don’t feel like doing any of that because I’m I would be in a ball crying. Right? Give yourself greats that you’re doing the best that you can. Some days are harder than others. And not to beat yourself up if you’re having a low day. If you don’t feel like walking or or sizing or eating well, or any of the things where you feel you’re feeling? Just give yourself grace and get up and try again.

Victoria Volk: I feel like you shared a lot that I think will resonate with my listeners. But is there anything that you feel you didn’t get to talk about or something you didn’t get to say that you would like to share here at the end?

Tiff Carson: I think I think the thing that I would always wanna say is that no matter what you go through and things that could hurt you or as long as there’s love in your heart or yourself first and foremost, that is what will get you through these hard times. You can love other people, and and I do. I love everybody, including my dad, including my ex, I have love for them. I love them. But if I don’t love myself, it is a much harder journey. And I am absolutely falling in love with me. So

Victoria Volk: I’d say that’s also another thing that grief has taught you. Yes. How to do?

Tiff Carson: Yes. It has taught me how to fall in love with myself. And I’m very grateful for that. And what gives you hope for the future. I have a lot of hope for that future. Like I said, there’s days where I was in the fetal position and just guttural crying. Right? And then there’s days where I’m like, really, really, really excited or what’s to come? Like, I I I have so much that I wanna do and so many people that I wanna talk to and so many places that I wanna see. That’s what gives me hope is that I have that excitement. I have that desire to want to do those things. And if I didn’t have that excitement and that desire, I think I would be a lot more, like, I don’t know, sad, depressed, and all of those kind of but I do I have a lot of excitement for my future. For me, for my kids, for all of it.

Victoria Volk: That’s wonderful. I love that. You know that that for you? I love that for your kids. Yes. Because if you don’t have hope, where’s theirs? Exactly.

Tiff Carson: And I know I used to put them before anything. Anything. And especially with the challenges that we faced with them with schools and doctors and everything. And I literally put them first. And I stopped doing that.
And I put myself first. And I’m taking care of myself first and my well-being and my mental health. And it is helping them because I am getting better. I am tapier. I am more energetic now. I am like all of the things. And by taking care of my cell first, it’s benefiting them.

Victoria Volk: Would you say that that is your advice to parents who are raising children with ADHD and ODD? Absolutely. Because the way that I was doing it before

Tiff Carson: it put me behind the clothes in my closet. And

Victoria Volk: breaking you.

Tiff Carson: Looking for a way out. And I was completely broken completely broken. And it’s when I decided to get help from my self and take care of myself first. That’s when it all started to change. So highly recommend. I understand it’s hard to think that you have time to take care of yourself first when you’re dealing with those kind of things. I’ve been there. I have three of them. Who all of them were challenging are still challenging some days, and I didn’t think I would survive. I quite literally didn’t think I would survive parenting them. And it’s when I made that choice to Take care of me is when it all it all started to get better slowly. Very slowly. But I could see the light. And it gave me hope and I just kept going and going and going.

Victoria Volk: Comes back to cause and effect.

Tiff Carson: Mhmm. Mhmm. Absolutely nuts.

Victoria Volk: Where can people find you if they would like to connect with you and find your book and all the things?

Tiff Carson: I am on social media, so Instagram and Facebook at I m tip carson. And my website is tip carson dot com. And my book dancing and rain is on Amazon, and my podcast is hard, beautiful journey, and you could find that anywhere, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, you need it. It’s on all of them.

Victoria Volk: Thank you so much for sharing. So openly and vulnerability as you did, And I have no doubts that anyone listening to this. There’s a part of your story that will resonate with them.

Tiff Carson: Thank you so much for having me and allowing me to process some my healing, some my grief again.

Victoria Volk: Thank you. Thank you. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.

Ep 148 Patti Herr: Where Are They Now? | Grief, Grace & Gratitude in Motherhood

Patti Herr: Where Are They Now? | Grief, Grace & Gratitude in Motherhood

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

Patti was my second guest on this podcast back in 2020. In our first recording, Patti shares more about what it was like being a young widow and later dealing with infertility with her now husband.

In this follow-up episode, Patti shares some wonderful surprises God had in store for her in the last three years, including the impact working through her grief with me has had on her life and parenting in the time since she participated in one of my grief recovery group programs.

Patti’s story proves that there are rainbows after storm clouds, how impossible it is to know God’s plans for us, and how beautiful the outcome can be.

Motherhood isn’t easy. However, handling the grief that inevitably comes along the way is possible with a little grace and gratitude.

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Victoria Volk: Thank you for tuning in to another episode of grieving voices. Today, my guest is a recap episode. A Where are they now with my second guest of grieving voices when I first launched in 20202, Patti Herr and thank you so much for being here and catching us all up on the past three years. Can you believe it? Almost three years.

Patti Herr: Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. It’ll be three years since September since we initially recorded. That’s wild to me. The original episode was episode 13 and it was titled widow, miscarriage, and IVF. And a lot’s changed. Yeah. So let’s go back in time and talk about a little bit about that struggle with becoming pregnant and in your life at that time and what has happened since?

Patti Herr: Well, I it was kinda it wasn’t fresh but the being a widow was still fresh, I guess. And when I got pregnant, I was like, oh my gosh. How did this happen? I mean, obviously, you know how, but why, you know, I couldn’t give my husband my first husband a baby, and now I’m pregnant with someone who isn’t my husband. And so it was that was a struggle to do, but Now looking back, it’s crazy how I feel like he placed every single child into my life. He knew.

Victoria Volk: You had a struggle getting pregnant and you went through IVF. How and I know your last child though,

Patti Herr: You wouldn’t be. It was a surprise.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. It was not that idea. So can you explain a little bit? Like, what you’ve learned about infertility and about all of that, you know, experience?

Patti Herr: I questioned it. I was like, did we need to do IVF? Did we need to spend all this money? Like, why, you know, how did we get pregnant so quickly after knowing blah blah blah. But, absolutely, secondary infertility is still a thing. And I don’t think had anything to do with stress or anything. I just think that when you have a baby and when you get pregnant, like, your body almost, like, resets And I think that’s kinda what happened. I think my body reset and I ambulated one month and surprise surprise. And we didn’t think we could get pregnant. So

Victoria Volk: Divine timing, I suppose. Right?

Patti Herr: Yep. Yep.

Victoria Vokk: So how far are you

Patti Herr: They’re 23 months apart because she’s December and he’s November. So

Victoria Volk: Okay.

Patti Herr: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: That’s so fun. You know, my older too are 18 months apart. And I wouldn’t change it. I wouldn’t really change it. No.

Patti Herr: It’s hard for me. Enorous kind of hard. But

Victoria Volk: yes. It my last one was a little hard

Patti Herr: In there.

Victoria Volk: But they’re the girls are two years apart. Mhmm. So but I did have them all within four years. Yeah. But I

Patti Herr: don’t know how you did it

Victoria Volk: I wouldn’t change it. It was it was crazy. It’s you know, those years are blur for sure, but now I wouldn’t change it, you know.

Patti Herr: Yeah. I think when they get older, it’ll be better because they’ll have to stay at each other and but right now it’s life is crazy. My house is messy. My house is lived in and Yeah. Life is good.

Victoria Volk: Grace.

Victoria Volk: Grace. Grace. Grace. Yeah. Lots of grace to go around.

Patti Herr: I was born people in, like, just or you know? I have three kids and it’s a mess in here.

Victoria Volk: And why do we think we need to apologize? Right?

Patti Herr: Yeah. I don’t know.

Victoria Volk: I know.

Patti Herr: Because some women have their lives together. I do not.

Victoria Volk: Well and you know, it’s like a lot everybody’s circumstances and situations are different too, you know. It’s, you know, it’s I think in this day in age too where you’re working outside the home, and then you come home and, you know, they call that the second shift. That didn’t exist for a lot of women way back when, like, for

Patti Herr: Well, I’m not working right now.

Victoria Volk: But you are.

Patti Herr: Well, I am. Yes. You’re right. You’re right.

Victoria Volk: You are. You are.

Patti Herr: But we’re home all the time, and I think that’s part of it is, like, when you do work, your house stays a little bit cleaner for a little bit longer because the kids aren’t in it.

Victoria Volk: That’s true. That’s very true.

Patti Herr: When you’re home all day, they’re here all day.

Victoria Volk: There is a trade-off there. There is a trade-off. So you are also a client of mine when we first initially recorded. It was shortly before that, like the year before that, you had gone through the grief recovery program. And how do you think that that has I mean, does it still influence your life in certain aspects or ways?

Patti Herr: Mhmm. It’s still a huge eye-opener for me. Like, I still tell people about it, and it still kind of like in awe. Like, I went in to do this about my husband who passed away and I did about someone who was living. Like, it just in awe, like, how people grieve and who they grieve and it kinda just puts it into perspective. And I think it still and I still like, I don’t write letters out anymore, but I do them in my head kind of or, like, in my heart, I guess.
Because it’s been nine years. And, like, recently, June 9th was nine years for me. So But I still I mean, I still struggle with that living person every day, every single day. So

Victoria Volk: And how have you managed to have a relationship with this person?

Patti Herr: To kind of make my not my life easier, but to manage my life and my well-being. I’ve distanced, I guess, in a way I’m not close with that person. But I still have a relationship with them.

Victoria Volk: And I think that’s the gift of going through grief recovery is that you realize where you need boundaries. Yeah. Maybe where you didn’t have them. Would you say that that helped you kinda implement those boundaries?

Patti Herr: Yep. And it’s I used to feel guilty about it, like, not having that person close because, like, my grandpa’s always like, oh, we need to, like, be together on holidays and, you know, bury your family, blah blah blah. But at the same time, I can still have a relationship and have bound laundries and still saved my heart and my family’s heart a little bit. And our feelings, I guess. Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Have you experienced any loss since we past recorded?

Patti Herr: Not personally, but friends, I guess, I’m not super close friends with some friends, and then just in the community, they’ve had losses. There was just a widow last week. I guess, a lady a woman in Westlake that lost her husband to a tragic accident, and I had planned on going to the funeral and I just could not. Leading up to the funeral, I got very anxious and I just I wanted to be there, but I knew it was not gonna be good, so could not do it.

Victoria Volk: Have you thought about working on that relationship with your deceased husband?

Patti Herr: I haven’t, but It has been 9th years. You think I’d be over it by now, but it just Well, those things and it’s it was the day. Like, June 9th was the day we buried him. It was my fifth wedding like, it was my we got married on that day, like, my now husband. Like, I think it’s a really good day to do all this. But then also so that person, that lady in town buried her husband on June 9th, and I just It was too much on June 9th. And then there’s this there’s a lot in history on June ninth for people in Wishik as well. There’s just a lot of a lot of in the mid beginning of June, I don’t know why now, like, a lot of grief in the beginning of June. But

Victoria Volk: Oh. Yeah. And that’s I wanna circle back to what you said. Like, it’s been nine years. I should be over it by now. And I think we tell ourselves that even two, three, four years in, forty years in. Mhmm. You know, people would say that people say that to other people. You should be over it by now. Okay. The thing is is what that process. And you know this, what that process helps you do is become emotionally complete so that when those days come, they aren’t as they don’t feel a sharp. You know? It’s like it it kind of softens the hurt a little bit, you know.

Patti Herr: I should have done a letter that day, but, like, because I’m good with the day with Jared. Let good with it, but, like, I know how to manage it. But then when that funeral came up, it was it was hard. And I knew it was like yeah. So I took a salad and I did some things around the church, but I just couldn’t do the funeral.

Victoria Volk: And that’s okay. Yeah. That’s okay.

Patti Herr: And I didn’t even know him really that well. I just know her and her family and I still just I mean, it brings back so many memories and it’s hard for that day.

Victoria Volk: I had someone ask me yesterday, you know, what do you they’re gonna go visit somebody who is very ill and die essentially. And she had asked me, what do you what do you say to somebody? Who’s dying or what do you say to somebody who’s going through something like that? And because you had that experience of being a widow, is there anything that you would have liked to have said to her or would like to share with anybody listening who may be experiencing that right now, that that you found helpful or that, you know, from your experience that you would like to share.

Patti Herr: Looking back, during, like, the planning process, I don’t feel like I was there really because I don’t like, then a year later, we buried my husband than dad. He died, passed away the day before, a year later. And I feel like I don’t remember planning any of that stuff. I feel like I left it into a lot of the family’s hands. And sometimes I wish I would have been more involved in picking things and but I just emotionally could not do it. So I just think, like, as for as far as advice, grieve, like, how you want because and there’s no timeline. Like, I say it should be over it, but there really is no timeline. And there are some people that are quick to judge and it’s been this long, you know. But can you really put a timeline on that? I don’t know. I don’t think you can. It would children, with husbands, with anyone in your life. Like, I don’t think you can put a timeline on how long you should grieve. Because or how? Like, I just don’t think so I feel I and I have told the widow this, like, you should just grieve how long you want, how you want, don’t let people influence you, keep those people close that wanna be close, like let them in because that’s those are your true friends. I lost people. Lost friends when Jared died in. It’s not like I did anything. Like, I’m not the one that made him pass away. And I still lost friends. So I just feel like your life will change, and you’re just gonna have to learn how to cope with that. And I think your class would be a great and for that when you’re ready. I don’t think you should have to do it right away or push to do it right away, but eventually, you need to start coping and learning how to cope. I didn’t do the counseling thing. I maybe should have, but I didn’t. So but just talking to someone, learning how to do deal and cope with things is very very high up there, I think, on the advice.

Victoria Volk: And one thing I learned too, just working in the groups, having you in the group and working with other clients one on one in the since, you know, in past three years, four years is now I actually have lengthened the one on one program to twelve weeks, and we work on two relationships. Because I think yeah. Because I think that you know, it’s not this one and done. Mhmm. I think once you work on one and then you work on another significant relationship, it kinda solidifies what you’re learning. And I think it just helps to really get a hang of the process because it is learning. It’s a little bit of a learning curve. You know, it’s new knowledge, it’s new tools, and so I’m happy to report that I’ve learned that you can’t just work on one. It’s working on two can help get that ball rolling so that you feel like this really does impact me in a positive way. Mhmm.

Patti Herr: How long does it agree?

Victoria Volk: Yeah. You you kinda wish it would have been too.

Patti Herr: Yeah. But I can tell that I’ve done it not to the full capacity, but, like, I’ve done it with other people in my life. Not not probably as in-depth or whatever, but I have done it with other relationships.

Victoria Volk: That’s good to hear. How do you think it’s going through this program and as your kids are getting a little bit older now and maybe asking different questions, you know, how has the going through the program and what you learned influenced your parenting maybe, and even you yourself, like, and how you parent.

Patti Herr: So I remember specifically part of the class who made this timeline and you’re, like, your dog dying, your fish dying. Like, that can impact every little thing in your life. And so I tried we tried to explain things like eastern kind of a few years ago, went through a thing with a death. And so I got a few little kid books or whatever to be able to read to him. And now I can read those to Norrie and Will and I I think explaining things and making it so that they know, like, I feel like it was kinda taboo. Like, you go to a funeral, like, people die. That’s what goes on in life. Well, you still need to process it. Like, a dog dying, you still need to process it. We had a dog die a year and a half ago. Like, we needed to process it as a family because it was kind of traumatic. So I feel like that’s helped me try to explain things to my kids too.

Victoria Volk: Do you have any tips on how you did that with your children?

Patti Herr: Let them ask the questions and no don’t let them feel like questions are bad or any question is bad. Just, like, let them ask the questions and give them the answers that they need and don’t fuel the fire, but don’t make it taboo. Don’t make it like, you shouldn’t talk about it. Hush hush.

Victoria Volk: Right. Be honest. Help your children be emotionally honest. You know? Yeah.
They’re angry. Let them be angry about their dog dying. You know, that’s okay. You know,

Patti Herr: My oldest is very an an empath and he feels a lot. So I have to do all the emotions with him.

Victoria Volk: That’s good. I mean, and there has to be space for that especially as a child who takes kind of in everything around them. It can be very over the world can be very overwhelming. Even the news, you know, it’s like you’re watching the news and you talking to your friend and your friend maybe went through something and then your dog dies, you know, like all these sad heavy things can really be devastating to a child who is highly sensitive. And so thank you for bringing that up, that not a lot of parents really consider that their child isn’t a cry baby. Mhmm. You know, because a lot of parents might say, quit being a cry baby. Mhmm. It’s you they’re just sensitive, more sensitive.

Patti Herr: You had a half meet, they had a father, passed away a few years ago, and Well, I guess it’s been a year a year and a half. And he he said, that’s so sad. And, you know, I said, well, you just need to be a good friend. You need to be there for him. And So I think that I mean, he asked a lot of questions about that too.
So he feels a lot.

Victoria Volk: Any resources that you have found, that you have utilized yourself other than grief recovery or anything else that you’d like to share?

Patti Herr: I really haven’t. I don’t use money. If I do, I would go to, like, Pinterest and sometimes there’s worksheets or something, but

Victoria Volk: for the kids.

Patti Herr: Oh, well and so I I had put it out there because Easton was very interested on on death and everything. And so I put out there, like, on Facebook, what people did. And they I can’t I have the book in one of their bookshelves, but there is a book about death. It has it’s like dinosaurs and stuff and kind of explains things. And I think I asked my pastor to ask actually, I did. I and I said, well, can you talk to him about it? Like, is there like, can he ask you questions and but I got this book, and then he did some research and gave me some other book titles, and I don’t have those at the moment. But on me but yeah. So I did go to my pastor and ask him and We have driven around cemeteries before and talked about things too. So

Victoria Volk: And even art — Yeah. — allowed children to express themselves through art. Yeah. Play Play Doh crayons, colors, watercolors in that way too.

Patti Herr: We got memorial flowers for the dog.

Victoria Volk: Oh.

Patti Herr: Yeah. Easton and his dad saw them in the store, so they got her memorial flowers. So

Victoria Volk: that’s good.

Patti Herr: He still talked about her. He talks about the cat that passed away four years ago. So he remembers a lot.

Victoria Volk: And how old is he now?

Patti Herr: He’s seven.

Victoria Volk: Old enough to understand.

Patti Herr: Yes.

Patti Herr: He’ll he’ll say, I miss this person. I miss this person. I wish I could have met this person like he knows.

Victoria Volk: And so many adults will underestimate what children truly understand. You know, I was eight when my dad passed away and people just didn’t think I understood. You know? It’s like, okay. Well, you see your dad. Yeah. You see your dad, in a coffin, and then, you know, he’s put in the ground, and then you don’t see him anymore. It’s like okay. Well, I understand they’re not in my life anymore, and that’s really sad. You know?
It’s like, don’t tell me I don’t understand. You know?

Patti Herr: Your mind’s understanding at five six seven, you definitely were understanding at eight.

Victoria Volk: By three years old —

Patti Herr: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: — About 75% of how to respond to life.

Patti Herr: Yeah. Well, in that three, that’s when he was asking about death. So

Victoria Volk: Yes. Exactly.

Patti Herr: Very important.

Victoria Volk: And I’m glad this came up too because it’s been something that I’ve I’ve said before, I think, on a different podcast episode, but I need to put resources for books, for children, and stuff on my website.

Patti Herr: And you need to have a class for children too.

Victoria Volk: I can’t actually work with children. That is that’s creating a thing. Yeah.

Patti Herr: And you have to take another class. Right?

Victoria Volk: Well, I can work with the adults of the children. So there’s the program helping children with loss but it’s for the adults to help the adults work with their own children.

Patti Herr: Okay

Victoria Volk: And that’s through the book, actually, this might be a good resource for you when children grieve — Mhmm. — is the other companion book to the grief recovery method is when children grieve. And are helping children’s loss program is based on that book. So that would be a resource for anyone listening. But there is actually a program that I had a guest on my podcast, and she started an organization called shielding hearts. And I’m going to look, I have just I’ve told her and I plan to look into her program because this program, you actually work with the kids, but it’s not it’s kind of along the lines of art and things. That you bring it into schools, the school system. So I’m gonna yeah. I’m gonna look into doing that. So it’s I’m not a licensed social worker, so that’s where some yeah. Get get the poo poo on that. We’re having kids, but It is a passion of mine, for sure, because I’ve I’ve been there, so I understand that children just don’t necessarily have that person in their life where they can feel like they can open up and share. Because oftentimes what happens too is let’s say dad or someone close to you is dying or sick and if or passes away and your your child is asking, what about grandpa? And then you don’t want to talk about it because it makes you sad. So then your child doesn’t talk about it because they don’t wanna make you sad. So then what happens is nobody’s talking about it.

Patti Herr: Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: And it’s this thing that you just don’t talk about. You don’t you don’t talk about grandpa, you don’t talk about grammar, whoever it is that passes away.

Patti Herr: Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: So what are you looking forward to in the next three years?

Patti Herr: Surviving, if we could.

Victoria Volk: Giving them all in school. Right?

Patti Herr: Yeah. Yeah. One won’t be, but the other ones will be. Yeah. But just building our life and working still working on our relationships, like even me and my husband, we I mean, we’re constantly learning single day. Like, I don’t think you ever I feel like you learn about your your spouse and everything, but I feel like you just you’re learning together every single day because you’ve some things you’ve never dealt with or, you know, your kids are getting older, so then situations change and you just learn I mean, we’re learning constantly together how to handle things and how to deal with things. And I just see us having so much fun as a family. And also, I know in the next three or ten years, probably we’re gonna be seeing some losses in our family and that we’re gonna have to deal with, and that’s something that I’m dreading. But it’s just the reality, I guess, and it’s not gonna be fun for any of my family.

Victoria Volk: But, yeah, tools.

Patti Herr: Yeah. Yep.

Victoria Volk: And I gotta say too, like, just is there anything that you would like to discuss about being in the trenches of motherhood and, you know, because you can kind of feel like because you weren’t anticipating. Right? You weren’t anticipating them at all. Right? And so, like, now being kind of in the I’ll say in the trenches of it. You know, I was we’re just talking about this and friends and I just the other day. I and I said, yep. You know, people always told me that the days are long, but the years are short, and then it’s so true. It is so true. You know, and when you’re in the trenches of it, it’s like, it’s really easy to lose yourself.
So how are you doing as far as that goes if you’re open to sharing?

Patti Herr: I go through my little tips where I’m like, I can’t keep this house clean and I get my little crying moments where I’m like, I’m a bad mom and blah blah, but the last couple of days, I realized, like, the house can be messy. It will get clean be cleaned someday, and we’ve been outside all day because it’s been so beautiful. And that to me is the best medicine and that’s what’s what makes my kids happy, what makes all of us happy, and dad is busy working in the field, and so we miss him terribly, but we just we play and we have fun. And when we can be with him. We do, and we have fun with him too. And life’s just crazy, and I would say when it slows down, but it never has yet. It’s just crazy busy and I just let them enjoy life and we play and play and play and eat and eat and eat and clean and clean and clean and clean and I just think you have to just have a little bit of faith and hope and everyone tells you, like, just relax. You’ll have kids, you know, when you’re going through in fertility, and that’s not always the case. Sometimes, you just have to take life into your own hands and believe in science and god put science on this world for a reason. And I think that IVF was a beautiful thing for us and our baby was a beautiful thing for us, and the first one was also beautiful because we didn’t think we were ever gonna get that chance. So I just think life is beautiful and it’s short and you just need to really enjoy it and it’s too short to be miserable. Obviously, you go through those moments where you’re not miserable, but you’re just sad. And I feel like you have to be sad to you. It’s a balance. You can’t always be happy happy happy, I guess.

Victoria Volk: Well, and that can be exhausting too to put on that front of all — Yeah. — like, you know, it’s I’m fine. Yeah. And there it that takes effort and energy. It’s a waste of effort and energy instead of — Yeah. — it takes less energy to be emotionally honest, like, No. I’m not good today. I kinda need a mental break.

Patti Herr: Yeah. Some well, my kids need mental breaks sometimes. Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Right? And from each other,

Patti Herr: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: That’s the hard balance too. It’s like that was the hardest part I think for me too. It’s like trying to find that individual time.

Patti Herr: Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: It’s like that firstborn gets so much attention. And then the second one comes along and it gets a little harder. But that third, it’s really tough.

Victoria Volk: Throws a wrench into things.

Patti Herr: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: That’s really tough to, like, to feel like you’re giving each child what they need. You know? So that you can feel like you’re failing in a lot of ways. But

Patti Herr: Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: you know, you do the best you can and

Patti Herr: and lean on each other. Like, you have friends, you have other moms, or dads, or whatever, like, lean on people, you know? Because they’re going through the same thing. They just maybe don’t show it as much or you don’t think they do or, you know, you might think you’re alone.

Victoria Volk: I just heard of a cup there’s a couple of working moms and they exchange, like, their day’s off, like, they’re watching on each other’s, like, that’s how they do it. They they’re killed. They’re both newborns or new oh, they’re new parents, and they’re that that’s what they do. So they just you know, they’re raising each other’s kids. They’re doing it together, and I think that’s a beautiful thing that you can find in friendship. You know, if you have that support. And if you don’t, find it. Create. Ask. You know, how many people are so afraid to ask hey, I have this idea. What do you think? You know, if we just you know, here’s one tip that I’ll share with you. And it is something that we still talk about to this day, our kids talk about it to this day is so I don’t live on a farm. I never have. But a friend of ours did and or does. And we would have what’s called farm days.

Patti Herr: Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: So everybody brought their kids to the farm and like the rest of us had, well, two of us were lived on farm two of us lived on farms and two of us were city gals. Right? But, anyway, everybody brought their kids the water, water games, whatever they did, and we just got together, like us women, moms, got to talk and catch up. The kids got to have fun doing whatever they were doing. It was the best. It was the best. And, you know, we did this in the summer sometimes. And Those are the best memories. And oftentimes, they weren’t even planned.

Patti Herr: Mhmm.Victoria Volk: Hey, let’s just have a farm day today. And it doesn’t always work, of course, you know, because things and the phases of life. Right? You go with the phases of life. Now, most of like, there’s yeah. Two of us now. Two of the four have about three of the four have day jobs outside, you know, like, we have places we need to be and things we need to do, so it doesn’t always happen. But That’s my tip. Create a farm day. Ask the girlfriends, you know, especially the other friends that live on farms. Just get together, bring the kids, make it a

Patti Herr: We have a crazy idea. Sometimes, we go to the zoo with all of our kids and we’re like, why did we do this? But then in the end, it’s really fun for them. Yeah. They might cry on the way home because they’re so tired. But

Victoria Volk: But that’s what I’m saying. You don’t even need to drive anywhere. Yeah. To, like, take them out anywhere. You need to, like, mess with the strollers and the diaper bags and just come together —

Patti Herr: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: — one spot and just let them explore and find bugs.

Patti Herr: We do try to get together with friends, but it’s I mean, everyone’s so busy. It’s kinda we just need to and that’s my thing too is, like, you just gotta make the time.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. Just ask. Yeah. And I you know, a friend of mine too. She was like, you know she’ll ask me and I’ll say, ah, I just I can’t today, but And I told her just recently too, I’m like, you know what? This was a good idea. We went kayaking. She’s like, I was like, this is a good idea. She’s like, I guess I just I said, just never stop asking.

Patti Herr: Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: You know, it wasn’t it wasn’t planned. It was, like, she was she wanted to go. So she’s, like, hey. I’m I wanna go, Kaye, do you wanna go? Yeah. I’ll go. You know? It’s Mhmm. So I think a lot of the times it’s the spontaneous things that is where the best memories are made. So that’s my suggestion to any mom just get together with the girlfriends. It’s important. It matters. It makes a difference. And

Patti Herr: You need to make time for yourself too.

Victoria Volk: That’s true too. That’s true.

Patti Herr: Get a babysitter. Don’t I know it’s expensive and I know, like, oh my gosh. I have to have it babysitter watch my kids, but get the babysitter because you need to have your own time, you need to have date nights. Like, we don’t definitely do don’t do an update switch we will someday when the kids are older. Right now, we just we’re focusing on our children, but get the babysitter.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. And speaking of which, people might be listening to, like, your house is really quiet for three kids. Do you have a babysitter?

Patti Herr: This summer, I got my littles into daycare for two and a half days a week. So they’re in daycare today. And at my older one, I made him out of the house for a little while. He might come in here in a little bit. I told him a half hour, so that’s about coming up rather than that back.

Victoria Volk: Oh, so that’s good. I mean, that you’re taking your own advice. Right? I mean, it’s just one day a week. You know

Patti Herr: I do work at McTwist, the Dairy Queen in town one day a week. So I I get an adult interaction.

Victoria Volk: And that’s important. And that is kind of you time. That is mental health time.

Patti Herr: It is. Oh, I love it. I love it. Yeah. It’s only for, like, six hours, but I love it.

Victoria Volk: It’s something to look forward to to get out of the house. Right?

Patti Herr: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Just Yeah. Yeah.

Patti Herr: And the fact here, like, I need to do this and I need to do that.

Speaker 0: And leave the house without a diaper bag.

Patti Herr: Yeah. Yeah. Or I mean, could I forget a kid? Or

Victoria Volk: Yeah. Well, I’m so glad things have really just the sun has just been shining on your life and it’s I’m so happy to have been able to catch up with you today. And thank you for sharing what’s been up with you. Yeah. And you know, I do offer alumni groups.

Patti Herr: And she made it to somebody.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. Well, and I could do it online now too. I don’t have to pack a diaper bag. So yeah. So I’ll have to maybe get something like that lined up in the future. Yeah. Is there anything you prefer? Yes. there aren’t. Is there anything else that you would like to share?

Patti Herr: I don’t think so. Just live life to the fullest because it’s so short. You never know. You never know.

Victoria Volk: You never know. That’s for sure. Especially, as you just described, you know, that accident that happened. Right? You just you don’t know. You can leave your house one day and not walk in the door later.

Patti Herr: Yep.

Victoria Volk: So

Patti Herr: Yep.

Victoria Volk: All I was gonna ask you too. Do you ever go out to the farm where your husband’s work and have a picnic with the kids?

Patti Herr: We go out there because we have a horse named Marlin, and the kids wanna go see the horse all the time. So we go see Marlin quite often.

Victoria Volk: Okay? But where your husband is farming, though. Yeah.

Patti Herr: Oh, yeah. We well, we take him food, and I actually have to take him chemically. He called me right before this and said, can you bring me some chemical? Oh, so I’m also farmland. Like, I yeah. And we want to move to the farm someday. So we’ll be out there probably in a few years, I would say.

Victoria Volk: Oh, so you’re not on the farm?

Patti Herr: Nope. We’re in town. We live in his grandma’s house. We bought his grandma’s house.

Victoria Volk: Oh, my mistake.

Patti Herr: Yeah. But we will move to the farm his parents live out there, but they’re kinda transitioning. So

Victoria Volk: Well, farm days are in your future, I bet.

Patti Herr: Yeah. So women can come find out for farm days because I plan to have all the things. My husband’s like, oh, we’re gonna have funny farm and I’m like, you better believe it. I’m going to that exotic animal sale and we’re gonna have fainting goats and

Victoria Volk: Oh.

Patti Herr: Peacock

Victoria Volk: That’s really fun. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Patti, and it’s been so fun catching up with you. And I wish you a wonderful rest of 2023. It’s halfway.
We’re halfway through. That’s crazy.

Patti Herr: Time goes too fast?

Victoria Volk: Sure does. Well, many blessings to you and your family.

Patti Herr: You too. Thanks.

Victoria Volk: Thanks. And remember, when you unleash your heart you unleash your life. Much love.

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