Grief, Grieving Voices Podcast, Podcast, season 5, solo episode |
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Grief isn’t merely an emotion; it’s a profound energy that demands reflection and immersion into our deepest feelings. But too often, our intellect and ego stand as gatekeepers, preventing the deep emotional healing we desperately need.
In this week’s solo episode, I speak of the body as a compass through loss. Grief tells us when to pause and feel deeply if only we stay grounded enough to heed its guidance. Neglected grief is insidious—it can manifest into physical ailments or emotional turmoil.
Key Points Discussed:
- Grief’s Energetics: I compare grief to a body of water that overwhelms us and emphasizes the importance of allowing ourselves to feel deeply rather than intellectualizing our emotions.
- Physical and Emotional Connection: Our bodies and emotions have a visceral understanding of loss.
- The Impact of Unprocessed Trauma: How past traumas, like sexual abuse or physical violence, can lead us to dissociate from painful experiences and how this affects our present life choices.
- The Opportunity for Growth Through Grief: While it might be hard to hear, especially during times of suffering, there is potential for growth through processing our grief effectively.
- Searching for Episodes by Loss Type: I encouraged my listeners to explore previous episodes categorized by types of loss, such as widowhood or parental loss, via the blog’s search function.
- Rituals and Recovery Methods: I highlighted the importance of rituals and community support in grieving processes and suggested engaging in my “Do Grief Differently” program as a way forward.
- Unleashing Painful Emotions: I shared my own transformative experience where acknowledging all forms of grief led me to release intense emotions that had been pent up inside.
If you’ve ever felt lost in your grieving process or know someone who does—remember my voice echoing softly amidst the noise: “Healing is possible. Your emotions are valid. And most importantly—you’re never alone on this journey toward reclaiming your heart after loss.”
RESOURCES:
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NEED HELP?
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
- Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor
If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.
CONNECT WITH VICTORIA:
Embracing Grief as a Natural Process
I understand that grief carries a profound energy – one that requires us to pause, reflect deeply, and immerse ourselves fully into our emotions. She argues convincingly that this force has tangible effects on both body and mind; thus, processing it isn’t just beneficial but necessary for healing.
Our intellect and ego can sometimes act as barriers preventing us from experiencing the rawness of our feelings during the grieving process. This resistance can halt emotional healing at its core. By acknowledging this challenge openly on her podcast, Victoria invites listeners to let go of mental blocks and embrace their vulnerability.
The Body: A Compass Through Mourning
One key insight that I share with you is viewing the body not just as a vessel but also as a guide through the labyrinth of loss. Staying grounded allows individuals to navigate their journey more intuitively by truly feeling each emotion without shying away or intellectualizing them.
Unaddressed grief doesn’t simply fade away; it often manifests itself through physical ailments or emotional disturbances. However, when acknowledged and processed properly – something that I advocates strongly for – healing becomes attainable. We can then remember those we’ve lost without being incapacitated by sorrow.
Do Grief Differently: A Program for Healing
To aid grievers along this path, I offer the program Do Grief Differently which equips participants with tools designed not only for immediate relief but long-term application throughout life’s many challenges involving loss. This approach acknowledges two critical points: first, that sadness may linger even after healing occurs; secondly, understanding how past traumas influence current behaviors is crucial in moving forward constructively.
Broadens the scope beyond death-related grief by addressing other forms such as abandonment issues or financial losses—demonstrating empathy towards all who suffer regardless of circumstance while encouraging listeners to find solace in episodes most pertinent to their unique experiences.
My comprehensive resource extends further via blog posts where I delve deeper into topics discussed on air—a testament to her commitment towards providing accessible support no matter where someone might be on their grieving journey.
Confronting Unresolved Pain Head-on
Allowing unresolved pain from festering beneath life’s surface—it can lead to ongoing physical discomforts or emotional turmoil if left unchecked.
Rituals play an essential role here; they offer structure within chaos—a sentiment echoed across various cultures worldwide—and provide opportunities for expression during times when words fail us.
By facing pain directly rather than avoiding it (a central theme), people gain empowerment over their circumstances instead of remaining ensnared by unprocessed emotions—which ultimately leads toward clarity and peace.
An Invitation Towards Self-Care & Engagement
As each episode concludes with heartfelt advice urging self-care practices especially concerning physical health impacts due to unprocessed emotions—listeners are encouraged not only listen passively but actively engage themselves within community discussions around shared experiences fostering collective growth outwards together alongside fellow grievers seeking similar paths toward wellness.
Episode Transcription:
Victoria Volk: Hello. Hello. Good morning. Good afternoon or good evening. Whatever time it is you’re listening to this solo episode. Thank you for being here. And I was not sure what I wanted to talk about for this solo episode, but then I had a song come into my head from Lotto. Which I did look it up, how to say it right. And it is Lotto. Lotto. She’s a female rapper here in the United States. Anyway, she has a song called Big Energy and that song came into my mind and I thought what else has Big Energy Grief. Grief. That’s big energy. So that’s what I wanna talk about today is the big energy that is grief. And the energetics of it specifically, grief asks us, to become quiet and stop. Stop. To stop. Stop the movement. Stop the mind unraveling to just stop and dive into the depths. Of our souls. And it’s our intellect that usually tries to not usually, it does. Our intellect is what lifts us out of that grip of grief the deep wound of grief, I think before we’re ready, before we allow ourselves to be immersed. In that deep ocean, whatever you wanna call it. However, it’s like this body of water that feels like you’re drowning. You feel like you’re being swallowed up. Our bodies and our emotions have a visceral understanding of death and loss. We know that we can no longer touch or see those who have passed, yet we can still feel the embrace of a lost lover or hear the laughter of a child who has died, our bodies miss limbs that we have lost. And our bodies remember that pain. Our bodies and our emotions experience the reality of injury of loss of separation or even death every day. These two elements body our body and our emotions. No grief. Which means they can act as our guide. If we can stay grounded to our bodies and stop ourselves from flying off into some spiritual or intellectual distraction in response to grief. And as a result, we would we would be able to receive the c the healing that grief can offer us. We just don’t allow ourselves to go to that depth to allow our bodies to feel fully and let those emotions pass through us, move through us, let the body rid itself of the emotional pain you know, that twinge that you feel, that heartache, that heaviness in your chest, when we think about either the suffering that someone else inflicted on us, because grief isn’t just about death. I’ve said that so many times on this podcast. If you’ve never heard another episode before. There’s four plus years of content there for you to check out. I advise you to check out the first ten episodes, which actually might be ten to fifteen episodes, twelve, something like that. That really dive into grief itself and give you some background information and kind of lay a foundation of what the next episodes and the years that follow really lean on. Our bodies know how to process. It’s our ego. It’s our intellect. Our logic. Our analysis paralysis is what gets in the way, is what stunts our growth through grief. I’ll call it that. We have an opportunity to grow from our grief, despite our grief. No one wants to hear that grief is a growth opportunity, nobody. If someone would have told me that after my dad died, had I not been eight years old, granted. But even as a young adult, when I was still in the throes of grief really because my early twenties were kind of a shit show. So if someone would have told me, what I just said, I would have dismissed it. I probably would have been, like, your freaking crazy and it’s bullshit is what I probably would have said. Nobody asks, for that test. Nobody asks to be in that group of people who are suffering in their grief. And there is many of you out there listening to this right now who are suffering in your grief. And I just implore you that if you have never let yourself ask deeper questions about the loss you’ve experienced? Maybe it’s abandonment, maybe it’s loss of safety or security, financial loss, divorce, estrangement, There are so many scenarios I’ve shared with guests throughout the years. Driving the issue home, that grief is not just about death. I think we’ve established that by now. As you listen to the stories that people have shared throughout the years, And if you’re unsure, like, which episodes are for you, you can go to my website, actually, and there is a search box on the right side. If you click on one of the episodes of on the pod of the podcast on my blog, on the right hand panel, on the side, the right side, there is a you can search by categories. There’s widowhood. There’s parent loss, divorce, there’s everything is broken out by category. So if you wanna find an episode that maybe relates more to your situation. There’s a way to search for that on my on my blog, so I encourage you to check that out. Because there is four plus years of episodes. And if you’re not finding something that you’re resonating with or that you’ve or you’re wondering, like, where can I is there an episode about this topic? Reach out to me. I will send you a direct link. I will find it. I want you to see yourself in the people’s stories. And that’s why I try to represent all types of loss on this podcast. Just reach out to me if there’s an episode that you’re wondering if I cover a specific topic. That being said, regardless of the loss, regardless of your experience. There is a way forward. But we have to allow ourselves to feel it. Truly feel it. Feel that big, big, grief energy. Maybe like me. You were traumatized as a child. Maybe you’re a victim of sexual trauma like myself. Where over the years, you may be have maybe use painful events or scary movies. To further hone in your skills of disassociating, of disconnecting from your body. And whenever grievous situations occurred, boom, you shit out of your body, you just disassociate, completely disassociate, unable to feel. And I think so many people who have experienced trauma in that way, sexual trauma, physical abuse, just find yourself going somewhere else in your mind. Letting your mind take you somewhere else is the best way I can describe it. And I think then the response can be then to put yourself unconsciously, I don’t think it’s conscious. I think, unconsciously put yourself in the way of situations that help you to further disassociate to further not feel. And the only way to not allow those past experiences to continue to influence your present day and your future is to go back in time and to look at those things. And that’s what so many people have told me over the years is, I don’t need to dredge up the past. The past is in the past, but my friend, the past is your present. And your future until it is healed. And I say that word healed And I almost don’t even like saying it myself because it feels like it’s the weight of it is I don’t know. I feel like the word healing has become cheapened in a way. It’s like this elusive word that I don’t know. I feel like it’s lost. It’s meaning over time. But true healing in the form of when you think about that person, when you find yourself in a in a place where you remembering something from the past that it’s not taking you back in time to the pain You’re not feeling that in your body as you once did. It’s not influencing your decisions in the present. Or what you decide to do in the future. Those are I think those are unconscious processes that you don’t connect the dots at what you’re doing, why you make the decisions you make, why you move forward the way you do is because of the experiences of the past. And so when we acknowledge, that those things are influencing us when we learn new tools in recognizing and connecting the dots from our past to our present and to our future, That’s empowering. It’s empowering. If you don’t crave your losses, the people who have died or who have inflicted suffering upon you in some way, either get erased from your consciousness as if they weren’t important or they hang around in your psyche as if you’re being haunted. This is the pain. This is the suffering. Do you recognize these things in your life right now. Ask yourself these two questions. What must be mourned? What must be released completely? Ask yourself these internal questions. And I want to make a distinction between being caught in grief because you’ve, like, fallen into this another world ocean. And being caught in grief because your grieving process has not yet completed itself. Is most of us are rushed through our public grief and left to do our real grieving on our own. Without ritual, without ceremony, or without community. And in many cases, this the trapped grief is really just unfinished grief. If your grief is stuck in the body simply because it is unfinished, then walking yourself through a ritual practice for grief will help. Oh, going through grief recovery with me will help. It’ll also teach you a lot by the way and connect a lot of dots for you. But grieving takes its own time and it won’t leave you until you give your grief reference. So many people who I’ve talked to myself included, this will be my testament that once I honored and looked at all of the grief that I’ve experienced in my life, I was finally able to thank it. I was able to let it leave my body, the anger, the grief, The resentment, so so many emotions flooded out of me. Like, it was like the floodgates had opened. It was like the dam broke. I didn’t know if I could cry anymore tears. And if it’s been a long time since you’ve cried, you probably have a dam of tears just waiting to be unleashed as well. And it takes big, big energy to hold that in. And what is that doing to your body? That big, big energy needs to go somewhere? Are you putting it into alcohol? Are you putting it into other substance use? Are you putting it into people who you pour into, but don’t fill your cup, putting it into people pleasing, putting it into putting all that energy into seeking some sort of validation from others. What are you putting your big big grief energy into if it’s not into your into yourself? And into your healing. It’s going somewhere, or it’s destroying you from the inside. You have diabetes? Are you suffering with obesity? Do you have heart issues? The list goes on and on, migraines, fibromyalgia, this insidious body affecting thing that is idiopathic. They don’t have a clue what causes fibromyalgia. I would say it’s grief. I would say it’s unprocessed trauma. All over body pain. Tingling, sometimes numbness, like pins and needles. Aikiness. Just overall aikiness. I was tested for showrooms, I was tested for RA, so many tests. They didn’t come right out and say I had fiber mildly, but Looking back in hindsight, I’m surprised they didn’t. Inflammation in the body. Is stress in the body? And where is that stress coming from? Yes, we have environmental stress. Yes, we have physical stress, grief is stress, trauma is stress. Our bodies hold onto that. Our logic, and our ego, and our minds hold onto that as a protective blanket of sorts. Thinking we’re protecting ourselves. When really we’re causing our own suffering. I think that’s the perfect way to end this episode. Just think about where you’re putting the big, big energy that is grief. Where are you putting that energy? Where is it being stored in your body? How is it manifesting in your life? What do you need to let go of and release? What needs to be honored in your past? These are the deeper questions. And when you ask the deeper questions, my friend, you get the deeper answers. And if you are needing support in doing that, a little hand holding, you know where to find me. Until next time, remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Cancer, Child Loss, Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Podcast |
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Grief is a teacher, a harsh one, but it comes bearing profound lessons.
In today’s heart-touching episode of Grieving Voices, I sit down with Dave Roberts, whose personal odyssey through loss is nothing short of inspiring. He shares his intimate experiences following the passing of his daughter to a rare cancer.
From grappling with unimaginable pain to discovering a spiritual connection and wisdom beyond the veil – this episode isn’t just about coping; it’s about transcending grief and embracing life in its entirety.
Key points covered in this episode:
- Dave reflects on three significant dates that changed his life.
- He discusses the rarity and severity of alveolar rhabdomyosarcoma, which ultimately led to his daughter’s passing just ten months after her diagnosis.
- The profound impact on Dave’s life post-loss, including how none of his professional training prepared him for grieving as a father.
- His involvement with bereavement support groups helped him feel less alone but also prompted deeper reflection on what more he needed for healing.
- He discusses a chance encounter that opened up new spiritual pathways that transformed Dave’s approach to grief, leading him to coauthor a book.
- The importance of continuing bonds with loved ones who have passed away is highlighted as an integrative process for moving forward while still honoring those we’ve lost.
Dave doesn’t hesitate to discuss raw emotions or societal expectations around male vulnerability. He dives deep into these topics, offering solace and understanding to anyone struggling silently.
Let Dave’s words guide you through the darkness toward the light—because sometimes it takes hearing someone else’s story to begin rewriting our own.
Transformative Grief: David Roberts’ Journey from Loss to Spiritual Connection and Empowerment
In the quiet moments of reflection, we often find our deepest insights. Today on Grieving Voices, David Roberts shared a story that echoes in the hearts of anyone who’s ever loved and lost.
David faced every parent’s nightmare when his daughter Janine was diagnosed with a rare cancer just after giving birth—a time that should have been filled with joy instead became overshadowed by impending loss. His journey through grief led him to support groups, spiritual guidance, and eventually to teaching others about navigating the treacherous waters of bereavement.
His story isn’t just about loss; it’s about transformation. From the ashes of profound sorrow rose an understanding that grief is not linear—it’s a complex dance between joy and pain. David learned to live with his daughter’s memory woven into the fabric of his life, turning anguish into a source of strength.
As he shares these lessons with students at Utica University, he fosters an environment where mutual growth sprouts from shared experiences. He reminds us that while supporters may come and go as we evolve through our grief, change remains our constant companion—ushering us towards new beginnings even as we honor what we’ve left behind.
David’s message resonates beyond personal tragedy; it speaks to men grappling with societal expectations around emotional expression. It challenges couples to navigate their unique paths through mourning together yet apart in their individual processes.
Above all else, David teaches us that embracing new perspectives can illuminate pathways out of darkness—not by leaving our losses behind but by integrating them into who we are becoming.
For those yearning for more wisdom or seeking solace in similar stories—you’re not alone. Reach out to David at davidrobertsmsw.com or tune into his podcast Teaching Journeys for further exploration on consciousness and healing beyond death’s door.
Remember: In acknowledging vulnerability lies great strength; in sharing your narrative resides immense power—to heal oneself and inspire many.
Episode Transcription:
Victoria Volk: Hey, hey, hey, thank you for tuning in to grieving voices. Today, you’re joining me and my guest David Roberts a licensed master social worker who became a parent who experienced the death of a child when his daughter, Janine, died of cancer on March first two thousand three at the age of eighteen. He is a retired addiction professional and is an adjunct professor in the psychology department at Utica University in Utica, New York. Dave has presented brief workshops at National Conferences of the Compassionate friends, as well as for the bereaved parents of the USA. He has been a past Huffington Post contributor and has authored several articles on Grief for a variety of Internet publications. He co authored a book with Reverend Patti Ferino titled when the Psychology Professor met the Minister which was self published on Amazon on March first twenty twenty one, which also happens to be or was eighteenth anniversary of your daughter’s death, which I imagine was not a coincidence.
Dave Roberts: It was that, Victoria.
Victoria Volk: So let’s start there. And actually rewind the clock to when your daughter became ill because she passed up a very rare form of soft tissue cancer called alveolar Rhabdomyocarcoma.
Dave Roberts: Mhmm.
Victoria Volk: Which is rarely – it was more common in children under the age of ten, and can have a genetic disposition of it. So when did you when did she when did you as a family find you know, when did she receive that diagnosis? And
Dave Roberts: Well, at
Victoria Volk: that time.
Dave Roberts: I would have taken back to three significant dates. You know, to to set up the timeline for this. First and foremost, Janine became pregnant in September, I believe, of two thousand and one. And on May second two thousand and two, she delivered a healthy baby girl. Her name is Brianna, and she’s Brianna is now twenty two years old. And during her pregnancy, she had a freak injury to her right foot. And her foot became progressively swollen throughout her pregnancy. And we had Victoria attributed the swelling of her foot to just the normal complications of pregnancy. Adema, And, you know, we just figured it wasn’t anything. It was we figured it was gonna go away once she was once she had delivered her child. However, her foot became progressively worse. Any type of treatment that they used to treat her foot such as a walking boot or rest or elevation did not stem the swelling. So her orthopedic surgeon wanted to do an MRI in April of two thousand and two, but she needed to have said, absolutely not. I wanna wait until my baby’s born. So Brianna again was born on May second two thousand and two. She Jadine had the MRI done in the hospital and they found an undefined eight centimeter mass at the bottom of her foot. About a week or so later, they biopsied it. The biopsy came back as highly suggestive of cancer. On May twenty six, he was officially diagnosed with the Veiliar Rhabdomyosarcoma. Again, a very rare inactive muscle tissue cancer. In the week prior to her official diagnosis, I had just received confirmation that I met the requirements for my master’s in social work degree from Suni Abenei. So on May second, I became I experienced the immense joy of being a grandparent. On May nineteenth, a satisfaction of a twenty five year journey of getting my master’s degree. And on May twenty six, I found myself now the parent of a terminally ill child. In June, we went to Dana Farber Research Institute in Boston, which is one of the best, if not, the best pediatric research and treatment centers for sarcomas in the United States. Because in our area, and I’m from upstate New York, a little town called Lloydsboro, New York. We don’t deal with sarcomas. That’s not the specialty of the oncologist here. So they sent us some place that would be more probably, more in a position to to to treat it more effectively. But when we got there, we had a five minute consult with one of their one of their oncologists. Janina had stage four cancer which meant it totally metastasized and metastasized her bone marrow to her lymph nodes to her bones. They told us that there was absolutely no cure for cancer. The only hope that they were going to have for any type of gove cure was to put her cancer into remission, keep it in remission until they can find a cure. So when my daughter and I firmly heard, and what my wife heard and what Janine’s significant other heard is that. Janine is gonna die. Unless there’s some type of a miracle. So I went from this joy of accomplishment, the joy of being a grandparent to all of a sudden looking at the possibility that I was good to good possibility. I was gonna be walking a path and no parent as ever ever wants to walk. And I did my own research. I found a good rabbit on myosarcoma site. And you had mentioned in the introduction that this is a cancer that is typical to children that are tenant under. Janine got a childhood cancer at eighteen. And that was one of the mortality indicators. Is that of her chances to to have some quality of life would have been better hit she had gotten us when she was younger? But the fact that she got it when she was older, plus her tumor size, plus bone marrow and footnote involvement, increased her chances that she was going to die as I call it now transitioned to a new existence. The five year survival rate for her type of cancer, Victoria, depending on what research you were looking at was ten to fifteen percent, which meant there was gonna be an eighty five to ninety percent chance that she was gonna die within five years. And she didn’t even make it a year within ten months from from diagnosis. From her diagnosis, she transitioned at home on March first two thousand and three with hospice services. And that led me on a path that I never thought I in my life, I would ever I would ever be walking. I was a I was an addiction counselor at the time. I started teaching at Utica University at the time. It was first, it was Utica College, now it’s Utica University. And none of my education, none of my training, none of my background as a therapist or my my work with individuals who had all kinds of trauma due to addiction or not due to addiction. None of that prepared me for for what I needed to do to move forward. So at age forty seven when this happened, my version of the midlife crisis wasn’t buying a sports car. Getting a to pay, getting a headpiece, trying to reclaim my youth, and I was trying to figure out what type of a person I was gonna be in the kind of world that I was going to choose to live in. And I am paraphrasing thatthat term from a gentleman by the name of Neil Peirk, the late Craig Drummer for the Canadian Rock Band Rush who had his own series of tragedies. And he talked about needing to get to determine the type of world he wanted to live in and the type of person he wanted to be after those tragedies. And his conceptualization of his path really, really kinda mirrored mine. And really, I couldn’t have said any better than he did. So that is the background story. That’s how I’ve gotten That’s how I got to this point in my life where now every everything that I stood for, my values, my beliefs, my priorities everything was on the table now. Everything was up for discussion.
Victoria Volk: And how did that change? The David before your daughter passed versus the David after she passed?
Dave Roberts: Well, First of all, if you asked me to to to type of person I was at forty seven years old, Victoria, I couldn’t begin to tell you. That couldn’t begin to find him. He did a search priority to find him. So that person is no longer a part of me. It’s just it’s just it’s just a distant memory. What got me to this point, and it it went in steps and went in steps for me. First was fighting really adequate support, which is necessary to get through any type of any type of grief journey. I found a really good with the help of my wife Sherry, a really good bereavement support group for parents that was sponsored by a local funeral home. Because one of the things is that I really felt alone. You know, I really felt like, jeez, I’m the only person going through this because my world was so shattered and my world was so broken. I didn’t even know where I fit in with this. I didn’t even know did that did anybody else have that has anybody else ever gone through this? Now, intellectually, I figured people had but that wasn’t, you know, but it wasn’t registering anywhere else with me. I just couldn’t, you know, I just couldn’t conceptualized that anybody else was going through, what I was going through. But when I walked into that brewery parent support group for the first time, I saw eighteen other parents who were going through the do the same thing.
And then all of a sudden, I wasn’t alone. And their parents said they were longer a lot farther along in the journey than me, and it helped for me to kind of pick their brains and listen to what they did to help them get to the point that they got through, to begin to and to begin to reengage in life again. I began to do some reading and books of other found grief and other other parents who had experienced a transition of a child And then I began to get involved in doing some workshops for the compassion, friends, and later around thebury parents of the USA, two organizations and support families who have experienced a death of a child of any agent from any cause. And then in two thousand and ten, my whole and I also began to to start or help and organize grief conferences and do some other things in honor of my daughter. I was doing what I felt I needed to do at the time to try to re engage in life and to try to make sure that she was always gonna be remembered.
And then in two thousand and ten, everything changed where my perspective really got a total shot of a spiritual adrenaline?
Victoria Volk: In what way?
Victoria Volk: What do you say to people who maybe are attending such groups and are feeling like they’re not moving forward? Or, you know, because oftentimes, in the work that I do with Grievers and hearing from people that I’ve worked with about support groups and things like that is if they’re not moving you to action. If you’re coming to it’s a great place to connect with people like you said to not feel alone and to who share a similar story. But if you’re coming in and you’re sharing your story and you’re hearing other people’s stories, which can be really heartbreaking for the grieber. Right? You you do you feel better when you leave, you know, after you hear other people’s, you know, sad stories and things. If it’s not moving you forward. So what do you say to to that?
Dave Roberts: So, basically, one of the things I would do First of all, if they feel that they’re not moving forward, I would ask them to perhaps do some inventory. What do you think is preventing you from moving forward? Is it something that you’re missing within yourself? Is it something within the group? Has the group become you know, has the group that support group specifically not met your needs anymore because a support group that might be good for somebody who’s in the early phase of grief as an individual feels they’re progressing and they’re not, that support group may actually not be be be serving that purpose for them anymore.
So I would encourage them. I would ask them, what are some other things that you’ve been curious about exploring? Well, you know, both I’m looking about I’d like to explore maybe something like native. I’m thinking about it, the teachings of animals and nature. So I might refer them to the Native American teachings of Jamie Sams and Ted Andrews just to to look in to look to look at that and see how they can integrate at peace.
I would ask them, you know, have, you know, have they journaled, you know, maybe do some journaling to see exactly and you know, what they feel that their message is right about, you know, specific things that are going on and what may be triggering that and what they feel that. You know Dan’s also asking what specific culting skills do they think they need moving forward or what other perspectives. Because one of the things it’s it’s really easy to to to to feel like you’re not moving forward in grief even though you seem to be on the surface doing okay. And and that was that was for me. I think one of the things that two thousand and ten thathappened to me is that I felt that I was getting to a point where, you know, I feel like I’m doing this okay, but there’s something more than I’m missing. And the way thatmanifested is the day after the conference, I was taking three presenters up into the adiranax, up north because of the changes season up north around here in September, Victoria is really nice with the changing of the leaves and colors of the leaves. It kinda looks like just intensive water paint or oil painting. So I was they were having this intense conversation about spirituality. And I looked up at the sky and I said, I wanted to be where they are. Now, I wasn’t saying this to anybody in particular. Am I doing God or what it might have been the universe, could have been creative, could have been anybody. But I said I want to be where they are. And I’ve come to discover that intention is a powerful form is the most powerful form of prayer. So I would tell an individual, state your intention. What do you what have what do you do you see yourself now in the next phase of grief? What do you see yourself embracing? Where do you see yourself being? I said I wanted to be where they are. And I just basically wanted some some more information on spirituality so that it could give me some more tools to be able to move forward. The universe, however, conspired to give me more than I asked for and it gave me Patty. Patty gave me all different perspectives. And everything. And the work that we did together and the work that she exposed me to that helped me find peace with my daughter’s transition also helped me do some healing of the ancestral wounds over my father’s abandoned when I was five years old and my mother’s decision that to remarry and become overprotective. So all of the work that she helped me do with Janine translated to doing more work in my past to help me heal fifty five year old lives with my father and at least you know, with with my mother probably, yeah, probably about that, probably thirty five or forty years anyway. At least, well, she transitioned to nineteen ninety four, So you’re talking, yeah, probably about thirty year old ones with that. So, you know, it just opened up a world to me I never thought possible in terms of just widespread coming to peace and widespread ongoing healing. Other areas of my life that I hadn’t anticipated, all because of the work that Patty lovingly did with me for ten years to help me embrace a different perspective that would allow me to come to greater awareness of myself, my role in the world, and also to help me find peace with what had happened. Now in acceptance of the fact that I could still engage in a world where my daughter was not physically present, one of the things that I wanna mention and I wanna clarify for your listeners and for your viewers is that just because of peace doesn’t mean I still don’t grieve. I still grieve. There are days depending on what is going on in my life that I could experience the raw pain of grief And it doesn’t matter if it’s ten years later or twenty one years later. But now I look at it as an expected part of the journey I am going to be at or Beth, I’m gonna walk. Until I transition myself. And I’ve relearned to realize the joy of pain, yearning, sadness that can all call exist and we can learn from we can learn from it all. And as long as we accept the fact that, yeah, I mean, you know, we’re going going to experience those emotions that are associated with any type of loss because just because the physical body is is no longer here, doesn’t mean that the relationship doesn’t continue. The relationship goes on and love continues to endure. And with love, there’s also the pain that goes along with it because that person is not physically present. And that can that can still occur throughout throughout the life cycle of grief. Which is why I’ve always said I believe that grief is a circular in its journey and it’s not a linear journey. It doesn’t go on stages. It It’s very much can can resurface at any time depending on what’s going on at the present moment.
Victoria Volk: And for those listening who are paying attention to your timeline, of when you felt like you could that you were once moving forward. You know, it doesn’t have to take ten years. It doesn’t have to take thirty years like it did for me. Thirty plus years actually. But I think if we allow ourselves to be open to the people, to the teachings of others, to nature that truly is in higher power, whatever you wanna call it, that really is wants to nurture us. In our longing and in our sorrow. I think that we can accelerate that healing a little bit if we’re open to it. Right? If we
Dave Roberts: Or more work.
Victoria Volk: Listening more than we’re projecting, maybe, our pain.
Dave Roberts: Howard Bauchner: Yeah. And the other thing is that, yeah, as they were open to it. And the other thing is that to give ourselves permission to become empowered to say, okay, this perspective can be integrated into my core belief system. This one cannot. You don’t have to agree with everything. You don’t have to take in everything. You take what’s gonna work for you. The other piece of that is also being willing to listen to perspectives that are markedly different from yours and not to judge it is saying, well, you know, the you know, this is not the the appropriate way to grieve. It’s basically listening to it, bearing witness to it and saying, okay, what can I take away from this? What can I leave behind? Or can I take anything away from it? And it’s okay. The thing all we need to do is basically bear witness and try to understand where the other person is coming from, how they got to that perspective. With with my work with Patty, every time she would introduce me to something, my scientifically curious and I would say, okay, how can the spiritual perspective fit in with my existing core rational belief system? And then I would call her back and say, cheese paddy this work. Because I can see this. I can see where and and what happened for me is I got I got that assessed for life again because I was discovering new things that I that I never thought possible. And whenever we can discover perspectives that are novel, that work, then we think, boy, if we incorporate these this is gonna mean I’m gonna be moving forward as opposed to stagnating or moving backwards that it empowers us, it energizes us and I think it informs the service work that we do with others and makes it more rich because now we can share that. Anything that I learned learned about my own journey with with grief, I share that with my students at Utica University and my deaf dying and bereavement class. They know very much from day one, my history, including my history with Janine, and in losing a child. And anything that I learned, it’s just like I’m excited to share that with them. And then in turn, they will share perspectives with me that they teach me. So it’s just, you know, it’s just when you’re willing to be open and when you’re excited about what you have learned to communicate, it just opens up so many more doors doors. For connection, our support groups will evolve naturally, I think, based on where we’re at in our grief. People that were there for me in early grief aren’t there for me now, but that’s okay because a lot of that has been a choice that I’ve made to bring in different people in my support group who are going to be been are gonna be helpful to me now. So my support group has evolved. I have let’s see. It’s it’s it’s been fluid And that’s one of the other things I tell individuals expect that things are going to change. The early, early aftermath of a of a death, people that you thought were going to step up are No. Can’t be found anywhere because they don’t know how to deal with your grief. The people that you never thought were gonna step up do. And what is gonna be constant is change. But look at change is something that could be energizing as opposed to debilitating or as opposed to just being uncomfortable.
Victoria Volk: That’s where the growth is.
Dave Roberts: That’s where the exact
Victoria Volk: It’s getting uncomfortable.
Dave Roberts: That that’s you gotta be uncomfortable. I mean, you gotta be uncomfortable. And that is where the growth is. You know, we can’t grow without some type of uncomfortability.
Victoria Volk: And that is grief. That is the grief. And so it’s allowing ourselves to, I think, lead into into the pain first so we can really feel it. But also, like you said then, integrate it into our lives Mhmm. And follow our curiosity as to, you know, and I think too part of what you said is is asking ourselves deeper questions that grief often brings up for us that we’re afraid to ask because we are afraid of the answer. Because once we know the answer, we have a choice to make.
Dave Roberts: That’s right. And do we want to move forward? Do we want to stay stuck? And I think we do I think eventually once we we let the raw pain of grief and golfers, we do have a choice in terms of how we can move forward. I think if you look at Victoria, those individuals that I’m sure you’ve had on your podcast, those individuals in society who have transcended challenge. They did it because they made a choice to reengage in life again. They made a choice to say, okay. If this is the path that the universe or my higher power or God is going to to unfold for me. I am gonna make the best of that path for the remaining time that I have on the Earth. And other people can choose to make a choice not to do that. And there are consequences with every choice that we make. I used to tell my clients when I was an addiction’s professional. You choose the consequence of your actions. You can choose the consequences a sobriety, you can choose the consequences of of addiction. Okay? But the choice is gonna be yours. You’re gonna need to experience those consequences. I can’t do that for you. But it said, if you’re going to choose choose wisely. And if you’re going to choose consequences that are not going to have a negative or it’s not going to have a positive outcome, or could not have a positive outcome, put the accountability where the accountability needs to be, and that’s how you take responsibility for that.
Because once you take responsibility for your actions, you’re gonna jump back in a treatment sooner. Once we take responsibility for how we are going to transcend our grief we are able to move through grief. If I never use terms like closure or move on, when we move through grief, we integrate our grief, and we learn to accept we are living in a world where things are different because our loved ones are not physically present. And any loss, it doesn’t have to be the loss of a child, any loss drastically changes the landscape of our lives because we’re a person’s physical absence, physical absence, changes who we are and changes how we relate to the world. The loss of a pet as well too, depending on the nature of the relationship thatperson has with a pet, is gonna have those those same type of consequences. I’ll be at a different kind of grief. It’s still gonna have the same consequences. So
Victoria Volk: I’ve actually, some people have shared with me that losing their pet felt like they were losing a limb.
Dave Roberts: Absolutely.
Victoria Volk: Part of themselves. Gut wrenching. Like, these are the words that, you know, I’ve heard, and it is one of the most minimized losses too. Yeah. But I was thinking about as you were sharing your story about Janine and Brianna, I just I was envisioning this little girl Actually, I was envisioning Janine, like, as a mother myself, I it’s like, to hear that news and to know that this little girl you just gave birth to will not know you growing up. Like, I can’t even imagine being a new mother and having to go through all of those emotions. How did you support her? And how did she I mean, I suppose it was every day just a matter of survival and doing what she had to do to survive, while being a mother like that, I just I can’t even wrap my head around that.
Dave Roberts: What when when We had offered Branno was born. We had offered Janine and her significant other living in an apartment and their own. To come and live with us, you know, until she got she got better or until she was they were able to to and her significant other time was going to school, he was working. And he was taking full time. He was taking care of Janine. So he finally said to Janine, so we can’t do this. I said, I can’t do all of this myself. Let’s move in with your parents. So they moved in her significant other her significant other her name’s Steve. Jenny their cat moved in with our two cats, me, Sherry, and my two boys. So the joke was how many How many two leggings and four leggings could you get in two a single level ranch? And we ended up, I think ended up, I think, shattering that equation. After Janine transitioned, Janine had asked Steven, she goes, look, she didn’t say, well, she said, please stay here until Brianna’s ready for kindergarten. Stay with my parents. I don’t want her uprooted anymore than she already is. To his credit, he was nineteen when Janine became sick. To his credit, he stayed for four years. He stayed until she hit kindergarten. He stayed with us. He has since remarried. He has a disc you know, he’s he’s very happily married. He made sure that we saw a brand regularly after after he moved. And now brand is twenty two She has a little girl of her own now and she’s got another child out of the way. So I’ve I’ve become a great grandfather. And, you know, and it’s got a surreal holding Janine’s grandchildren as well too. So, you know, you take a look at all of us. And But it was for Janine, one of the things that she made sure to do is she recorded every moment that she had with Brianna. When Brianna walked, when Brianna started talking, when they did things together. And one of the more surreal experiences I had. I think it was last year of Victoria. I had the DVD of Janine’s last Christmas. And I sat down with Brianna, we watched that. So Brianna had a chance to see what kind of a mother Janine was to her for the time that she had with her and she was able to at least get an understanding of who her mother was. You wanna talk about surreal and emotional? That was that was something watching that with her. And but Janine documented everything because she knew she wasn’t gonna be around. In fact, she told me the Christmas before she transitioned and and it was just it was just after Christmas, who were sitting in the family room and we were by ourselves. And she goes, you know, Dan, I did a lot for everybody that I did for this Christmas, because I’m not sure I’m gonna be here next year. She knows she wasn’t gonna be here next year. She knew that. I think she she had a sense of that from the beginning. And I just didn’t say it to her. I just said, I understand, honey. And that’s all I said to her. She never asked me. Do you think I’m gonna die? She knew. She knew. And that’s why she did what she did. To give you an understanding of how resilient she was, When we got back from Dana Farber, and I tell the story, I had this old Jeep Cherokee, and she was in a lot of pain, you know, from her buying and everything from the tumors. And we were was a five hour drive from Boston, and I was sitting every bump in the road. She was screaming out in pain. And I tried going slow. I tried going fast. Nothing worked. So we got home. She sat out of the couch. I walked up to her all of a sudden, I start crying like a baby. I just buried my face in her lap. And I just said, honey, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to cause you so much pain. I looked up and she started having tears in her eyes. She looked at me. She goes, dad, I don’t worry. She goes, I’m peripheral. I’m that paraphrasing us a little bit, dad, don’t worry. I was just yelling because I wasn’t so much pain. You know what you said to me after that? She goes, if dad, if you can’t sleep, come and find me, we’ll talk. So I’m thinking to myself, this is a young lady who’s dying, and she’s worried about taking care of me. So I kind of figured, well, she could if she could look at it with that type of toughness, I could get through it. And I could get at least I could get through it. I could at least you know, get through what she is, get through the treatment and and and try to be strong for her through that because she was strong for me. When I was I was just a mess. And that’s the one moment that I’ll and thatwould tell you what she was probably was like as a mother. She made sure that the time that she had with Brianna was quality time. And in the summer, when her chemo was having a positive respect, they did a lot of things together. And she had that DVD so that at some point, Brandon, I can and my wife sure can look at that with her and say, here’s this is your mother. And that was a powerful, very emotional experience for me. And I think for Brann as well too.
Victoria Volk: Brings tears to my eyes, just hearing it.
Dave Roberts: Yeah. Yeah. It’s I get emotional telling that story. You know, I can I can tell when I get emotional because I start I start my voice starts breaking up a little bit? I can just feel it in here and it’s but that that’s a testament to the type of young lady she is.
And, you know, it was just the impact she had and and the type of mother she was and and it would have it it could have been and would have been had she had she’d been alive.
Victoria Volk: And to be so young, I think that’s the part that really just touches me is how young she was and just like, how quickly she had to grow up?
Dave Roberts: She had yeah. She had to be you know, it was interesting. She was talking about getting married to Steven in the backyard of her house. And any other side of the coin she was talking to wonder about whether she was gonna make it, you know, what you would also thatbut that’s that type of compartmentalization that you normally see with, you know, you’re one the one he had you thinking about, Bob, but I’m very the love of my wife and second hand, you’re thinking about chemo treatments, and you’re thinking I’m not gonna make it. But, you know, she Don, she told me right from the beginning, she was I’m not going down without a fight.
Victoria Volk: Did they end up getting married?
Dave Roberts: No. Okay. No. No. They didn’t. There was something that they she’s she had always wanted to get married in in her backyard. She already had the son to the she would she one day was she was fifteen. She goes, this is a sign we’re gonna dance to with my wedding. And she had a head that all figured out. What some
Victoria Volk: do you know?
Dave Roberts: I don’t remember. It was a country western song. It was a slow one. And I don’t remember. I never thought to ask her you know, for the type of for the science analytics. Because the time she was cancer free, I’m thinking, I got all kinds of time to figure that out. And then I think, you know, you think you got time and then all of a sudden there isn’t time. So so now I’ve learned to make sure now that when as I make sure I ask those questions, well, what sign is this now? Because not because what I’ve learned through this whole thing is that today isn’t given. Today, you know, today, you know, it’s here to go. I’m very grateful any day I get to wake up and do those. And I share that with God. The universe Thank you for giving me another day. Thank you for allowing me to get up and and, you know, make have this a day where I can make it a great day.
Victoria Volk: Maybe it’s a song about double rainbows.
Dave Roberts: Maybe. Maybe maybe, but
Victoria Volk: You’re gonna go to Google after this.
Dave Roberts: I’ve got a I’ve got a afternoon, Victoria. You got, like, you got a curiosity picked.
Victoria Volk: So who care so I imagine Steven then became her primary caregiver and, you know, and she’s Yep. After she passed and everything and
Dave Roberts: You know, Stephen, who was a state of my wife, and then my thirteen year old son, Matt, who was also involved. And that was his introduction to puberty having a terminally ill sister. And so thatwas I know he was difficult for him, but he just whenever my wife had to go to work, dad would take over. And when Steve came home, that was, you know, he would he would do the primary care duties. And he did it. I would say, nobley is probably an understatement, but he just did what he had to do because he he loved her unconditionally.
Victoria Volk: And to be nineteen too and to take that on as well and to not run away from it and face it and do what he had to do. That’s commendable as well.
Dave Roberts: And my daughter gave him an out. She goes, look, you don’t have to do this. And he looked at her. He says, where am I going? Because I got going anywhere.
And she tried to give him an out because I think she knew what was down the road for her. A body said, no. And I was a a testament to his love for her. And so it was kinda like if you look at it was kinda like a kind of our version of Romeo and Juliet.
Victoria Volk: What was the best piece of advice that you received while you were deep and grief? And I imagine maybe it was from your friends that you co authored the book with, but maybe not. Howard Bauchner:
Dave Roberts: There are two pieces of advice. I’m gonna break this down first in about probably early phase of grief, which is for me about two and a half to three years, and then nine years later, which I would consider to be kind of the beginning of later grief for me. Okay. I had mentioned earlier in our discussion that I was a member of a grievance support group. And it was sponsored by local funeral home. Their support group was facilitated by Franciscan nuns by the name of Sister Rose Trot. And she did a really, really great job. I mean, you could you could come into that group and say that you’re angry with God, angry with the universe she was she just would was not very nonjudge about it because she understood that. Mhmm. There was a time two and a half years two years into this where I said, I’m tired of being a bereaved parent. I don’t wanna do this anymore. So I stopped going to my support group. I caught myself up for meaningful support. I ended up being more miserable than ever. But I just didn’t wanna do it anymore. I wanted my wife back the way it was. I wanted my daughter back I said, I’m tired of going through this crap. And then it finally got to the point where I said, I need to talk to somebody. So I talked to Sister Rose. And I told her, I said, sister Rose, I am angry. That God. She looked at me. She goes, well, what if you put your shoe on the other foot. And it’s thought that maybe God is just as upset as you are because of what’s happened. And when I she she twisted that around a bit in which she looked at us. So, wait a minute. And I started thinking about I remember in the beginning, I told you I didn’t really I didn’t believe in science. I didn’t really But there are some really weird things that were happening to me shortly after Janine transitioned, I would have had a butterfly follow me around when I was walking my granddaughter I heard a song on the radio when I was thinking of Janine that we both had enjoyed. And I started thinking, see, something unusual is going on, but I couldn’t make sense. I couldn’t make sense of how to integrate it. But then one of the things I looked at, I said, well, Maybe if he’s just as upset as me, maybe that’s why he’s been kind of god’s been throwing out these signals that maybe she’s still around. So I was I was starting to think that maybe maybe those signals that it put the butterfly in everything were gonna be the start of something new. A new perspective. But at the time, I wasn’t ready to to see how that fit. But it it plan to save for that. So that shift in perspective. And then when I was talking with Patty about nine years couple years after I met her, the thing with cancer diagnosis is that. You I used to I remember I will remember the dates that she was diagnosed, the dates that she stopped treatment I’ll remember the date that she went into the act of phase of dying. I’ll remember the day that she took her last breath because I was there to witness that. She transitioned on March first of twelve thirty. I held her hand. I she took two swift breaths, and then she stopped breathing. And it always then always haunted me around when I came up to, like, the data for death every year that haunted me. So I told Patty that I said, you know, I can’t help but think that I was the last person to see my daughter alive, and that haunts me that I was there to witness her last prop. And Patty looked looked at me where she was around the function because what if you’re looking as you being the first person to usher into her new existence?
Is you were the person to transition her into eternal life. That was the message. And I said, wow. I never looked at it that way. And By then, I had begun to integrate the whole stuff with after deaf communication. I began to believe in the survival of consciousness. So that helped me shift my perspective and integrate spiritual practices and spiritual beliefs with science. And all of a sudden, well, I made thinking I am the last person to I sure earned to eternal life. That’s shifted to feelings that I had about her last moments of her physical existence at her. So those two or probably the best pieces of advice I gather the best suggestions or comments or seed seed planters that I that I got. Those that just planted seeds allowed me to think about things differently.
Victoria Volk: And I think it comes back to being open to be open to seeing things differently. In a nutshell. Right?
Dave Roberts: Yeah. Yeah. And and that whole experience with Patty and Long Island had helped me up. And plus, I had asked for that experience back and, you know, after the conference, I wanted to be where they are. My my intent, my prayer was answered.
And I believed everything that happened that weekend and we outlined it, you know, very, you know, very, very detailed in the book. I believed in everything that happened. I didn’t question it because I asked for.
Victoria Volk: What does your grief taught you?
Dave Roberts: Wow. Well, my grief taught me a lot of things. It taught me that life isn’t fair. That waiting a good life isn’t gonna push in you from tragedy, that the quality of our life is determined by not so much the fairness of life but it’s determined how well we transcend those challenges that are presented to us. And we can define Victoria tragedy in any way, shape, or form. But it’s how we transcend tragedy and what we do as a result of that. How do we find purpose? How do we find meaning? How can we serve others that are walking the same path? And how can we make sure that the and I think I’m paraphrase of an old Lakota saying how do we make sure that the tracks we we behind are going to to be impactful. And again, that’s a real that’s really paraphrasing that. But I think what the Dakota is saying is we will be forever known by the tracks we leave behind. And so let’s make sure the traps we leave are going to last long after we physically leave and serve.
Victoria Volk: That’s beautiful. What do you say to maybe men who are listening? Who like many men struggle talking about their emotions and their feelings. And more commonly, struggle with addiction, maybe even perhaps after devastating loss, who might say, I don’t need to rehash the past.
Dave Roberts: Well, yeah, I think one of the things I learned is that with any type of tragedy, the pass is gonna come back and look you right in the face. What I had to do. And I think Eric Ericsson had talked about integrity at the end of life where we take a look at the end of our life. We will take a do a life review and say, did we did we live a meaningful life? Well, that process started for me at age forty seven. Where I’d I mean, you you basically we have to look at the past. It’s required when I we’re taking a look at rebuilding our assumptions world. We have to take a look at those past beliefs that contributed to our understanding of the present prior to tragedy. So we have to look at the past. What I tell everybody is the past isn’t meant to be stared at. It isn’t meant to be judged. It is meant to be learned from. There is pro medicine saying in the Jamie Sam’s book medicine cards with Crow, matter the past as your teacher, out of the present, as your creation, and out of the future is your inspiration. We take a look at our past. We understand the decisions that we made in the present. We also can take a look at at and look at the tragedy we’ve experienced and say, okay. How can we learn through the past? How can and and what can we now do develop the president of our creation in the future of our inspiration based on what’s happened, what tools and what resources that we can use. So for first of all, I tell people you the pass is something that is if you don’t look at it, it’s gonna bite you right in the behind. Because you’re gonna it’s gonna come up and you need to look at it so that you can you can orchestrate the present and future of your own desires. It’s part of cocreating our own new reality with the universe after tragedy. The other thing with men and they get a bad rap for this is that, well, oh, men don’t talk about their feelings. If I had a nickel for every woman who came up to me and said, my guy doesn’t talk about his feelings. That’d be a rich man because men are equipped to emote directly. Mehta, we’re taught it early as you suck it up. You take care of those that you love. Feelings are are both make you vulnerable and make you weak. So essentially, with feelings, we learned to distract ourselves from our feelings by doing stuff. Okay? Do men feel just as intensely as women? Absolutely. We just deal with it differently. Women are more comfortable with sharing their feelings, with the molding, with with tears, where men, if they cry, they’re when they cry, they’re gonna cry privately. If they’re feeling out of sorts, they’re gonna go build something, they’re gonna go to try to solve a problem. And so I would tell men be gentle with yourself. If you wanna find out how a guy is failing, ask them what they’re thinking because we’re in our heads a lot. If you ask, Guy, what are you thinking? And this guy’s this guy says, boy, this really stinks. Well, how does that make you feel? Well, I feel angry. I feel disillusioned. I feel confused. You’ve gotten to your feelings through to his feelings through your thoughts. But if you’re asking him how he’s feeling directly, he may not go there with it. Because of how he’s been conditioned to deal with feelings. The other thing is that, I’m sure you’ve heard this word on you’ve heard probably other people telling you, well, my boyfriend gets upset when I cry over a tragedy. My husband gets upset when I cry after a tragedy. Here’s the other thing. Men of I believe have also been conditioned to take care of those that they love. And for me, when I saw my wife cry, when I saw my my boys in in emotional pain, it reminded me that I did not do my job as a father to protect my family from home. Mhmm. For two and a half years, I beat myself up because I thought I should have seen the signs of my daughter’s cancer sooner I thought I should have persuaded her to do one more clinical trial. I’ve my inadequacies as a father and a protector always brought up when my wife was crying because this reminded me of what I couldn’t do. And I realized now that I did the best that I could’ve given the situation I was dealt with, So, you know, it’s just this was just there was all of that. And I just tell you know, which I it gets we do feel. It’s just the the the the if a woman in our lives is crying, it’s not because of That’s not because of no cries because of what their peers represent. They represent a failure of us to provide our do our job as a protector for our family. And that’s and that’s why. If we can understand that, my wife has a totally different grading style than me. Once we began to understood how we agreed, we could begin to support ourselves with and give ourselves space with it and begin to understand it. And I think if I were doing couples counseling with a with a couple who was newly bereaved, I would tell them understand how each other’s grief for each other’s grief respect it and try to figure out how you can support each other within it without trying to change it without trying to change it.
Victoria Volk: Or or expecting the other person to carry the entire weight. Yes. Yep. Experience. Yeah.
Dave Roberts: Yeah. And that’s sad. You know, if you look at we’re talking about how to an orbit of relation shifts with the male and female. You know, seventy five percent of men are going to fit that type of gender ex role expectation of expressing emotions. I mean, twenty five percent won’t. So there may be some situations where you’ll see a woman who will suppress her emotions in a man who is gonna be more intuitive and can don’t come who’s a thing Thanatos well known Thanatos. Just talked about intuitive versus instrumental males. The instrumental males were the males that had through traditional male oriented expectations of expressing grief. The intuitive male were those that were more feelings oriented and were more automotive. It says understanding how do you grieve.
Just because you don’t cry doesn’t mean you’re not grieving.
Victoria Volk: Bingo.
Dave Roberts: You know, and that service everybody measures grieve by the amount of tears that they’re a pig when everybody cries. Brief is manifested very differently, and we need to understand that. When you are sad, When you’ve had previous tragedies, how has your grief come out? It may not be tears. It may be anger. It may be withdrawal. It may be being distracted. It may be your ability for a lot of individuals who suppress emotions. As you mentioned, addiction can be a real big issue. Especially for those individuals that don’t don’t have an outlet to suppress her feelings. And particularly if there’s been a family history, thatcoping mechanism of self medicating can be can be something that has gone to pretty ruddling. If there are no other alternatives for call from strategies presented.
Victoria Volk: And they don’t allow themselves to bring the support in.
Dave Roberts: That’s right. That’s right. And we have to the other thing is we have to believe that we are worthy of being nurtured. And a lot of times we may not accept help because there’s a stigma in terms of asking for help and accepting help, but we need to believe that when we can’t do it on our own, and we need to believe that we are worthy, we are lovable enough to accept that we we can be loved by others, and we can be taken care of by others. I think a teaching from the afterlife abilities finger saying, why do you believe you need to earn the right to be loved when you’ve been bored with that already? We’ve been born with that. Why should we believe that we’re not deemed worthy of being helped?
Victoria Volk: And how has this transformed your relationship with your with your wife? Like, did this bring you closer together? For a time, I imagine maybe it was very challenging like you alluded to earlier.
Dave Roberts: Oh, it was because we didn’t have the energy to deal with Chuck with with our own grief much less each others. And we were pretty much, I guess, were drawn from each other for a while. I think that was one of the net the natural consequences of grieving. But one of the things is gradually as we, you know, we we became coming together. We talked. We carved out some time for ourselves to listen to each other. And our relationship now is stronger as ever been. We’ve been married for forty two years. We have You know, I’ve got two great two great sons Dan and Matt. They’ve got four grandchildren and one great grandchild and another one on the way. So, you know, given everything that has happened, Victoria, to I feel like I’m a blessed man. And I couldn’t have said that twenty years ago. I could if I if I couldn’t envision myself saying that to you now. But one of the things that grief has taught me is is is another thing is to be grateful for what you have in your life. As opposed to what you don’t have in your life or what you can’t have in your life. There are days that I said I wish my daughter could be back here. I wish that I could have found another type of tragedy to to to find meaning from, and I have my family intact. But I learned whenever I started earring for that, I said, well, you know, I can’t continue to earring for something that I can’t have. So I immediately go back to the Okay. What am I grateful for today? And that gets me regrouted again. It gets me back to where I need to pay.
Victoria Volk: And then when you see those double rainbows
Dave Roberts: Oh, yeah?
Victoria Volk: That really crowns you.
Dave Roberts: Yeah. It does. It does. And and anytime I see a three one or here her name mentioned or I run it to somebody thatone time I made a call and I was going to a conference in Saint Savannah, Georgia. And I called to book a hotel reservation. Hey, you know, usually when you go through a Switchboard, it’s gonna be randomly get. So well, the operator picks up the phone and says, hello, this is Janine. Can I help you? Said, oh, this is gonna be an interesting conversation. And so I’d book the reservation. And all of a sudden, I got this nudge and saying, ask her how she spells her name because my daughter had a very unusual spelling for her name. It was j e a n n I n e. So I’ve stuck at a Janine, the operator on the phone. I said, Janine, I know it’s gonna sound like a weird question, but can you tell me how you spell your name? Guess how she spelled her name? Same way. So I’m thinking about, you can’t make this stuff up. So it’s that event. And the other thing that grief has taught me is there are no coincidences only serendipity. And the people that have come come into my life have come into my life at the times that they were supposed to come into my life.
Victoria Volk: I’d interviewed a minister not that long ago. Actually, David Chaka, it was one of my previous episodes, recent episodes, and he calls them divine appointments. Mhmm. And every day he asks for a divine appointment.
Dave Roberts: Well, I’ve had I’ve had I’ve had many of those in twenty one the twenty one years since my daughter is transitioned. So
Victoria Volk: You keep track of them?
Dave Roberts: Actually, I do. I don’t write them down as much as I used to anymore, but I know exactly when they’ve happened and I’ve got pictures of signs that I’ve gotten from her. I also have done I also have a slide presentation that I do in my death hunting breed and class. Right? Once this is section called Dewey survived death, and we get into after death communication. So I’ll give them some examples of signs that I’ve gotten signs that other students have shared with me. And so we have that discussion. And the whole theme of that discussion is the illusion of death. It’s death and illusion. Do we really die? Or do we just go on at a different form? And so we talk about that as well as the mainstream and the basics overview of death dying improvement. When we get into the spiritual aspects of it, with reincreditation studies, with near death experiences, with fast life regression, fast life experiences, everything. We get we get into all of it. And I tell them, Don’t confuse my passion for telling you, this is how you want to believe. This is how you need to believe. I’m giving you all this information because You may run into this with the clients on that. I wanna make sure you’re I’d rather have you over prepared than under prepared.
Victoria Volk: Or for yourself?
Dave Roberts: Or for yourself. And it’s amazing how it’s
Victoria Volk: guaranteed, probably.
Dave Roberts: Oh, oh, absolutely. I’ve had students afterwards literally. They’ve emailed me a You wouldn’t believe that they’ll they’ll email me with the sign that they got or something that they signed before we talked about class, and it gives them permission to open up about that.
Victoria Volk: Are you familiar with the work of Chris Kirk?
Dave Roberts: I’ve heard of Chris, but I’m not familiar with any of his does it a hearer shape? He he, I’m not familiar with that. I’m familiar with the name, but that does work. Howard Bauchner:
Victoria Volk: I don’t know if it’s still on Netflix, but there was a docu series called surviving death.
Dave Roberts: Yeah. Okay. Yes. That I that I am familiar with because I saw I didn’t realize Chris Curr was the mastermind behind it, but I saw that I saw the documentary. And I recommend that to my students a great overview of the non ordinary phenomenon that are part of the whole discussion of the field of fan oncology.
I think it’s it’s great.
Victoria Volk: He was on my podcast.
Dave Roberts: Really?
Victoria Volk: Yeah. So there’s an episode where he’s on my podcast. Yeah. And then Siri Burnson is psychic medium, and she’s also featured on that. And she was on my podcast as well.
So yeah. Interesting conversations. And and honestly too, like, my spirituality was greatly challenged for many years. And I think that that’s a component or a piece of healing that a lot of people maybe take the longest maybe to get to.
Dave Roberts: Yep.
Victoria Volk: In in terms of feeling like you’re finally moving forward. Because I think you with that shift in perspective and seeing things differently, seeing the death differently, I think that’s really one of the things that helped me personally?
Dave Roberts: Well, I think having placing an importance on spirituality is protective against so many different things, protective against mental illness. And I think it can improve physical and mental health care outcomes as well too. It can improve physical health. It can because that spirituality is there’s thatsense of greater awareness, that sense of connection to something greater than ourselves, and all of that, I think, can contribute to increased mental and physical health as well too? There’s no doubt in my mind.
Victoria Volk: Well, if we think about how we can even transcend our own consciousness through meditation or
Dave Roberts: Yoga.
Victoria Volk: Yoga. Adaptigens people using adaptogens to elevate their consciousness or Yep. Keep you an aspect of their consciousness that they wouldn’t see otherwise. We don’t need adaptogens to get there. We can meditate. Right? It can become a really strong meditator, but I think it’s then it’s fair to to reason that Well, who’s to say thatcan’t continue? That that consciousness? Like, what is what is the soul? You know, we are more than just our meat suits, you know?
Dave Roberts: That’s worse
Victoria Volk: than that.
Dave Roberts: Yeah. I mean, there’s another set of teaching the afterlife abilities fingers is that if we could look look into each other’s soul, it’d be one big will manifest. You know, we would look beyond the the implementation. We would look beyond the human contracts and conflicts that have kept people apart. If we could just look at each other’s souls, how we would see his love. And the world would be like one big love fest. But the human experience doesn’t allow for that to happen, and it’s not supposed to. Because any growth that occurs in any lifetime is for the greater revolution and the growth of our salt. And so we have to experience the pain and tragedies I think of the human experience in order for our souls to continue to evolve and grow.
Victoria Volk: We gotta go through the storms to see the rainbows.
Dave Roberts: Absolutely. You got it.
Victoria Volk: Anything else you would like to share that you don’t feel you got to?
Dave Roberts: Jeez, I think we we cover just about everything. I think I think we I think we covered a whole I think we covered a lot of ground.
Victoria Volk: I think so too. And where can people reach you and find you if they like to connect with you further?
Dave Roberts: Well, they could find me. They could go through my personal website. It’s david robertson s w dot com. They could go to myauthor website, which is psychology professor administrator dot com. If they’re interested in purchasing me and Patty’s book, It’s a one psychology method professor is on Kendall and paper back on Amazon. I’m also a podcaster. If they wanna take a look at the the the podcast, it’s a teaching journeys podcast, It’s on a a apple and Spotify. And they’ve they’ve had a lot of interest in guest, and Obviously, I went off I’ve talked about off camera and waiting you to be a guest out of podcast, so hopefully we can make that happen. And I’m just trying to those are, you know, email this booty and angel at gmail dot com if they wanna email me. And I’m all over the place on social media, I’m on Facebook, I’m on LinkedIn, I’m on Instagram, my son calls me the world’s oldest millennial, because I’m I’m not I’m not social media, so you could pretty much find me anywhere. And I’ll have a conversation with anybody that is grieving loss of a child, any any type of loss. I also believe in meeting people where their worst losses, their worst loss my worst loss doesn’t necessarily have to be their worst loss. I can tap into the pain of my own worst loss, know what that’s like, and meet somebody at their worst loss.
Victoria Volk: And so the David Roberts, LSW, does that have links to everything that you mentioned?
Dave Roberts: M s w dot dave roberts, m s w dot com. Does it have links to everything that I’ve but the other ones that I mentioned are separate.
Victoria Volk: Okay. And what was that again? The other website?
Dave Roberts: The other website, psychology professor and minister dot com. And then if if they reach us in purchasing the book, they can find out purchasing information through the author website or they can go directly on Amazon to find it.
Victoria Volk: Alright. I will put the link to those websites, your podcast, in the book, in the show notes
Dave Roberts: Mhmm.
Victoria Volk: And I thank you so much for sharing your time with me and helping us getting to know Janine and the remarkable young woman that she was in the short life that she was given and the story of your own transformation and of your grief and the work that you that it led you to do today. So thank you so much for your contribution.
Dave Roberts: My pleasure, Victoria. Thank you so much for having me on your podcast. I enjoyed our conversation tremendously today.
Victoria Volk: I did too. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life, much love.
Grief Tips, Grieving Voices Podcast, Growth, Healing, Mental Health, Mind/Body Wellness, solo episode |
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Today’s episode is about navigating significant dates and other reminders after a loss. Anniversaries, birthdays, holidays—these milestones can be poignant reminders that reopen the chapters of our grief, not to mention the special places that flood the heart with memories, and then the waves of emotion follow.
But here’s what I’ve learned: While it may seem like these days are there to test our resolve, they also offer us an opportunity for reflection and honoring memories. Consider this—what if you could transform your pain on these dates into acts of remembrance? Lighting a candle or playing their favorite song isn’t just about ritual; it’s about keeping a part of them alive within us.
Key Points Discussed:
- Acknowledging the Weight of Memories
- Permitting Yourself to Feel
- Creating New Traditions
- The Silence Around Grief
- Finding Support That Moves You Forward
- Planning Ahead for Tough Days
- Self-Care & Communication During Grief
When my father passed away, my family chose silence as our coping mechanism—a choice that left little room for healing. It taught me an invaluable lesson: acknowledgment is not only necessary but vital, especially when young eyes are looking up at us to learn how to navigate their own emotional landscapes.
The power of community in times like these cannot be overstated. Surrounding yourself with people who understand your journey is more than comforting; it’s healing. But remember—finding spaces where growth is nurtured over stagnation is crucial. As you approach those tough calendar days, plan ahead. Honor your feelings by allowing yourself to say no when needed and yes to self-care and tenderness towards your heartache.
To everyone walking through seasons of grief: know that every step taken is progress made toward healing—even on those dates marked by absence rather than celebration.
RESOURCES:
_______
NEED HELP?
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
- Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor
If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.
CONNECT WITH VICTORIA:
Navigating the Waves of Grief: Honoring Lost Loved Ones on Special Dates
Grief is an unpredictable companion, often intensifying during significant dates that remind us of those we’ve lost. In this episode of *Grieving Voices*, we delve into how these poignant reminders—birthdays, anniversaries, and holidays—can reopen healing wounds and what strategies can help us cope with the renewed sense of loss.
The Ebb and Flow of Memories
Special dates act as powerful triggers for grief. They are stark reminders that life has irrevocably changed. Whether it’s a birthday without the celebrant or a holiday missing one key participant, such days highlight absence with an acute sharpness.
It’s crucial to recognize that feeling overwhelmed by these occasions is not only common but entirely natural. It’s part of the grieving process—one that doesn’t adhere to timelines or expectations. Be gentle with yourself; allow emotions to surface without self-judgment.
Crafting New Traditions in Remembrance
In my own experience following my father’s passing, I learned that ignoring these important dates wasn’t beneficial—for me nor for my siblings who were also grappling with their grief journey. Instead, creating new traditions can be a therapeutic way to honor our loved ones’ memories while acknowledging our ongoing lives.
Lighting a candle might seem simple yet symbolizes so much more—it’s a beacon of remembrance casting light on cherished moments shared together. Playing their favorite music allows melodies to fill the silence left behind—a celebration of their tastes and preferences even in absence.
Cooking a meal they loved serves as an homage through flavors and scents—an intimate connection maintained across different realms. These acts don’t replace presence but rather intertwine memory within current experiences, ensuring our loved ones continue to influence our lives meaningfully.
Seeking Supportive Communities
The importance of finding understanding individuals or groups cannot be overstated when navigating grief’s complexities on special dates. Sharing stories about your loved one can provide immense comfort—not just in expressing your feelings but also in hearing others’ accounts which may echo your own experiences or offer fresh perspectives.
Seek out environments where you feel genuinely heard—a space where progress towards healing is encouraged over stagnation in sorrowful reflection alone.
Preparing for Tough Times
Planning ahead for challenging days involves recognizing personal needs amidst societal expectations surrounding social gatherings and festivities—the right to grieve authentically should always take precedence over conforming to norms if they do not serve your well-being at heart.
Declining invitations needn’t be seen as rudeness but rather an assertion of self-care; prioritize activities conducive to your healing journey whether it means solitude or seeking company depending on what feels right at any given moment.
Healing from loss isn’t passive—it requires openness towards moving forward despite pain lingering beneath surfaces readying itself especially during significant times like anniversaries and holidays.
Taking small steps each day towards acceptance can gradually build resilience against grief’s harsher waves when they come crashing down unexpectedly around these sensitive periods.
As we conclude today’s *Grieving Voices* discussion remember: care deeply for yourselves because through unleashing hearts comes freedom—and ultimately life itself becomes unleashed anew albeit differently shaped by love enduring beyond physical presence alone.
Until next time cherish every heartbeat knowing each throb honors those gone before us guiding lights forevermore along paths trodden under starlit skies filled with memories everlasting… Much love always 💖
Episode Transcription:
Victoria Volk: Welcome dear listeners to another episode of our journey together through grief and healing on this episode, one ninety, holy cow of grieving voices. So thank you so much for being here.
Victoria Volk: Today, I’m addressing a topic that touches the heart deeply, navigating special dates and reminders after the loss of a loved one. Whether it’s the anniversary of their passing, their birthday, or the first holiday season without them. These moments can reopen wounds and challenger peace, quite frankly. Let’s start by acknowledging that these dates and reminders like the empty chair at the holiday table or the quiet of a bedroom once filled with laughter. Carry a weight of memories and emotions. And it’s entirely okay to feel a surge of grief, and it’s okay to seek ways to honor and remember those we’ve lost while nurturing our hearts. Firstly, I want to tell you, give yourself permission to feel. I didn’t for over thirty years. And that’s a form of suffering. That’s a form of self suffering. Grief doesn’t follow a schedule and emotions may come in waves. It’s important to allow yourself to experience these feelings without judgment. I can tell you, I wish I would have allowed myself to feel much sooner and earlier in my life.
Victoria Volk: Creating a new tradition can be a meaningful way to honor your loved one. Light a candle for them. Play their favorite music, or prepare a meal they loved. This act of remembrance can be a comforting way to keep their memory alive. I remember when my dad passed away and on the anniversaries, there was no talk of remembrance or honoring quite frankly, it was not even really acknowledged. It was something that we held closely to the vest individually. And that’s really sad to me. And I don’t wish that for anybody, especially children who grow up learning that that’s the air quote, right way to grieve. There is no right or wrong way to grieve. There’s your way, but there are healthier, more proactive ways. That move you forward, but don’t keep you stuck. That’s what I’m all about. And so in order to do that, Oftentimes we need to reach out to for support. Surrounding yourself with understanding, friends, or family, or even joining a support group. Be careful though. Support groups can be a place that make you feel more miserable after you leave.
Victoria Volk: So it’s important to find a support group that you feel comfortable with, that everyone’s voice feels heard and honored, and quite frankly, that maybe has some action that moves you forward, not keeping repeating the same story week after week. But it can be a great place to connect with other people who have experienced a similar loss as you. And even if they haven’t experienced a similar loss as you, we can all learn something from each other. But spaces like these and people that we trust can often provide us comfort It enables us to share stories and memories which can be powerful way to feel connected to your loved one and to others who understand your pain. Again, this wasn’t something that was demonstrated for me growing up as a child. And I don’t think that is the case for many children, even today, I don’t think much has changed in in the ways that we grieve. Which is why my mission to share what grief is and my understanding, my new understanding, my new knowledge, what I’ve learned about it, has become an important mission of mine.
Victoria Volk: So thank you for joining me in this episode, and I hope that you share it. And share any other episode that you feel could be insightful or helpful to someone else you know or love. Coming back to the episode and what we’re talking about today, it’s important to plan ahead for those tough days. Knowing that a difficult date is approaching, consider planning a day that balances remembrance with self care. It might be a day for quiet reflection or doing something that brings you joy or peace. I recently had the deversary of my father. And quite frankly, I spent the day doing what I love. And that’s putting together and working on a pet loss program. And working on my mission, that was a way that I could honor my loss. In the memory of my father. And so whatever that means for you, that is a form of self care.
Victoria Volk: Moving on for those reminders that come unexpectedly, like an invite to an event your loved one will never experience. Like a wedding, graduation, baby shower. It’s okay to give yourself grace. It’s okay to decline invitations if you’re not ready. And it’s okay to take moments for yourself when memories flood in unexpectedly. Perhaps you wish to attend these events, and create an exit strategy for yourself if it becomes too much and emotionally overwhelming. One more thing on that note, if it’s been several years. Now again, grief doesn’t follow a timeline. If moving forward and being able to go to events like a wedding or a baby shower or graduation is something you want to do without feeling this pull to the pain of the past? That is an indicator for you, that it’s time to take action, that it’s time to address what is emotionally incomplete for you.
Victoria Volk: And I’ve shared it in other podcast episodes, and I’ll share it today. I do have a program that’s one on one working with Grievers. Twelve sessions. It’s called do grief differently. It’s just you and me. It’s not talk therapy. It’s an evidence based program that is specific to you and your life experience and your specific grief. And that’s why it works. It may appear to be like this cookie cutter thing. And I know a lot of people might think, well, it worked for you who you know, it’s not gonna work for me. How do you know unless you try? And if you tried everything else, what do you have to lose? But more years of a joy filled life. That’s my challenge for you today as you’re listening to this, to consider that. Moving on to my final recommendation for Grievers listening to this. Is consider creating a memory box or a dedicated space in your home where you can display photos, momentos, or anything else that reminds you of your loved one.
Victoria Volk: Visiting the space can offer a sense of closeness and a personal sanctuary for your grief and love. There is a caveat to this though. Sometimes we can enshrine people. We can create an enshrinement in our homes. Of the person we we lost. And these enshrinements where we view the person as never having any humanness to them, like never having any faults, never doing anything bad and we just we we think only the positive about this person. But if you really dig deep, You have to ask yourself, how true is that? Because even the closest people we we love who have passed away, hurt us in some way, caused us suffering or pain, or stress or frustration, maybe we were estranged. We need to get to the emotional truth of the relationship and if we entrying people. And never become emotionally complete with those those hertz that we’re holding on to. But we’re over shrouding and over simplifying and probably even minimizing or not even addressing the other things that hurt us. This is where we remain emotionally incomplete. And remain stuck in our pain.
Victoria Volk: So it’s important to consider that when you’re creating this space in your home for someone who is passed away. On the flip side of that, we also call the opposite, be devilment, where you only think of the negative about somebody or only hold on to the negative aspects of the relationship. And you have to ask yourself that as well. Like, is that completely true? Is that one hundred percent true of the relationship? Relationships are dynamic and complicated and complex and layered and and we have to address all of the emotional stuff on the positive and the negative side to become emotionally and we can’t do that if we’d be devolving someone or if we’re enshrining the relationship. And maybe that’s the first time you’ve heard any of that.
Victoria Volk: And Maybe you’re asking yourself, oh, do I have an enshrinement? It might be devilish someone in a relationship, and only you can answer that. But take some time with this episode and reflect on the things that I’ve shared so far. Listen to it again if you have to. But remember, dear listeners grief is a journey that is uniquely yours. And there’s no right or wrong way to navigate these moments when they hit. But I wanted to share this episode as a way to support and bring some lightness to the dark, and to let you know that it’s okay to have days where you don’t feel okay. And being able to communicate that to those around you saying, you know what, I need space today. Thank you so much for the invitation, but I’m going to have to decline. That’s all you need to say. You don’t need to go into the long story, an explanation. You don’t owe an explanation. Just I need to tend to my heart today. That’s it.
Victoria Volk: And so what’s most important is that you do what feels right for you allowing yourself to heal. Again, allowing yourself to heal. You have to be open to receiving that healing. And I also think you need to be ready to want to heal. And remember in your own time and in your own way that will happen. Might not be today, but hold the hope that it could be tomorrow or even two months from now. If you take little baby steps every day, I promise you you’ll get there, but Time is not gonna wait for you to figure it out. Didn’t wait for me. Over thirty years, it did not wait for me. Trust me on that. It takes action to move your life forward in the direction that you want it to go. Thank you for sharing this time with me today. May you find comfort and strength and healing in the days ahead?
Victoria Volk: Until next time, take care of your hearts. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
