Ruthie Bowles | Fight, Flight, & Freeze: Sexual Assault in the Military

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

Ruthie Bowles shares her story of being raped not once but twice during her time serving in the U.S. Army full-time. The first assault occurred at the hands of her then-boyfriend. The second time she was assaulted was the very day she came back from deployment.

Surviving a deployment, only to come home and be assaulted in her own private space, along with the previous assault, set Ruthie up for a long road of healing.

Between her first case never being resolved, leaving her to feel defeated and made to feel like a victim all over again, she never gave it a second thought to not report the second assault. Besides, she was higher ranking and, she had already learned, from her first experience, that the process of reporting was painful and yielded zero justice.

Ruthie shares how these experiences impacted her decisions moving forward, how she nearly lost the love of her life, and how her experiences influence how she parents her children.

There is something to learn for everyone in this episode. We discuss:

  • Fight, Flight, & Freeze; you never know what you’ll do in a situation until you find yourself in it.
  • Shame and sexual assault.
  • The revictimization sexual assault victims are often subjected to after reporting – and even by well-meaning friends. 
  • Red flags in relationships.
  • The mind-mess that happens when consent isn’t given. 
  • Her transition from military to civilian life after these experiences. 
  • Tips for how she began to heal. 
  • Things to look out for in friends who may have something they’re afraid to share, specifically a sexual assault.
  • Military sexual assault stats.
  • Why the phrase “boys are easier to raise than girls” drives her nuts and the one thing many parents of boys are probably missing when it comes to the “sex talk.”

Resources Mentioned/Worth Mentioning:

Need help?
Call 800.656.HOPE (4673) to be connected with a trained staff member from a sexual assault service provider in your area.

Connect with Ruthie:


Victoria Volk  
00:00
Thank you for joining me on another episode of grieving voices. Today, my guest is Ruthie Bowles. Welcome, Ruthie, thank you for being here.

Ruthie Bowles  00:11
Thank you, Victoria. I’m really happy to be here.

Victoria Volk  00:15
This is going to be a much-needed conversation around the military. And we’re both, we’re both service members, please share with us a little bit of your background and we’ll go from there.

Ruthie Bowles  00:33
Okay, awesome. Awesome. Awesome. So, yes, I am a veteran, I joined the US Army when I was 18. right out of high school, I traded a scholarship before I traded a scholarship for boot camp, basically, oh. And they got me because they didn’t get me but I was planning on going to school for cultural studies. I hadn’t picked my geographic region or culture of specialty ad just at that moment. But they told me like, hey, if learning languages and stuff is what you’re interested in, we have jobs for that. And I was like, Oh, really? That’s interesting. And they’re like, yeah, and you can get to go to the California language school Defense Language Institute in California, Monterey, beautiful Monterey, and you know, you get paid, you know, and that’s your work for the whole time that you’re there. And I was like, that sounds legit. And I don’t have to waste a bunch of time on useless classes, like more calculus, useless to me. I have yet to use high school calculus. And so yeah, so I joined right out of high school. And so I consider myself a very fortunate, I don’t want to say lucky, because that was my choice to join. But I’m very fortunate millennial in that I do not have any student loans, because I opted to join the military instead, you know, I went to California, I was in school for tech, or I was in Texas for school, and did some training Arizona, some training in Washington, DC, which was fantastic. And then I deployed to Afghanistan. I met my husband in Afghanistan, and we had a long-distance relationship for a while because he came back before I did, and my first duty station was Fort Campbell, Kentucky, and that was where I deployed from came back. I was stationed in Georgia, after that, and then stationed in Texas and ended up getting out because just a week before my husband was actually going to relocate to Maryland for a while for work. And then we were you know, I was planning on requesting a change of station and going there. Since I was coming from a training duty station, they typically give you your next assignment, and I hadn’t been assigned to Maryland yet. A week before he left I found out I was pregnant with our third child. And so I did the math. And I was like, ooh, so I already have two toddlers and then then I have the baby. And then I’d be here for more time by myself. Yeah, no, I’m not. I can’t do that. Like not especially not on a training base in Texas, right? No, neither of us has any family, no support, no nothing. So, um, I was like, Yeah, I can do that. So I separated and I became a stay at home mom for a while, then we decided to stay in Maryland. And we wanted to buy a house. So I went back to work as a federal contractor. The way we were set up in the company, because we were set up by language, I had no options for promotion or anything, really. And so that was incredibly disheartening as like the high achieving person that I am. So then I started to explore alternatives. And I started consulting on the side and marketing of all things, no experience there. But you know, that’s what the military taught me is, hey, you don’t know it. You can learn it. So that’s good. Yeah, yeah. Right. And so so that’s what I did. I learned it. And you know, as I got more results for clients, I got more clients. And then I was pregnant with my fourth child, and I use my maternity leave to quit my job and grow my business, you know, to a full time capacity in that three months, and that was in 2018. And here we are still going strong, full time. You know, things look a little different with Coronavirus and everything. But one of the driving parts in terms of what we’re talking about today, and when you look at that timeline is that when I got out of boot camp, basic training, and I was in California, I experienced my first sexual assault while I was in California on that training base, and it was somebody I was dating, but it was an incredibly unhealthy relationship. And he was very emotionally and mentally manipulative. Really good at gas lighting and you know, all of those things. And then the right after I got home from deployment, so I was a sergeant and At the time, and it was I experienced my second sexual assault, it was the day I got back that night, in my barracks room. And you know, it was completely like I didn’t, I barely knew this person is completely different scenarios, completely different situation. And so those two things, those two occurrences really had a serious impact on me, of course, as I built up to the, you know, going through the ranks and getting promoted, and then even like, on a personal level, my relationships, and then even some of the PTSD, I suffer now, which means some things happened while I was still serving in terms of like the PTSD symptoms that I experienced. But there were some that cropped up later, after I became a civilian, working in on a base where there were a lot of military members. So I know we’ll get into a lot of that stuff. But that is a big overview. I’m married. We live in Maryland, as I said, I’ve got three goats, 12, chickens, 10, ducks, and I have four children, three boys, and my youngest is a girl. So, we just, we’ve got a lot going on over here.

Victoria Volk  06:19
That’s awesome. Let’s go back then in time, to that first experience, because what many people may not think about a sexual assault within a relationship? Is that yes, you can be sexually assaulted in in a relationship? And because no, is no. And so, take us back to that time, and how that changed things for you moving forward.

Ruthie Bowles  06:46
Reflecting on it, I like at the time, like and anytime something horrible, like that happens you, you of course, like wish that it hadn’t, you know, because it’s horrible. But at the same time, as I mentioned, like the relationship was incredibly manipulative. He was my first relationship since I joined the military, I had a long distance like boyfriend from back home, and that didn’t you know, that didn’t pan out, imagine that. And, you know, coming right out of high school and being so young, and he kind of swooped in on the coattails of that emotionally, and was able to take advantage of me. And that that was like there was no alcohol involved. There was it was just I did not want to at that moment. And he did. And people talk about you know, and this and this stuff comes up all the time. And for anybody who’s listening, keep an eye on how you respond in on like Facebook and social media and stuff, because you are showing survivors who maybe are not comfortable sharing their story yet that they definitely can’t be comfortable with you. Because people always say things like, well, why didn’t you fight him? Why didn’t you ask for help? Why didn’t you scream, you said you were in the barracks? And the thing was, is that and thinking back, my brain could not comprehend what was happening to me. Because especially at that age, I think like you’re just so very much wrapped up in bad things happen to other people, and they don’t happen to me. And so, you know, there’s fight and there’s flight, but there’s also freeze. And that’s what happened to me. I just could not process what was happening to me while it was happening. And I just couldn’t believe it. And even while it was happening, there’s just so much shame fighting or running away would mean that other people would know and I definitely I definitely didn’t want that. And so, the big thing about that though, is that if that hadn’t happened, I might not have been able to break up with him when I did. And even right after like, just to give you an idea of how emotionally twisted this relationship was even right after he was acting upset and apologizing and I was comforting him while also trying to simultaneously get him out of my room. But once he was gone It was kind of like this magic spell at least that that part of it kind of evaporated and disappeared and I was like okay, yeah, I can’t I can’t be with him anymore. And he stalked me for months. After that, you know, I’m assuming just like kind of trying to like wait me out. And I hadn’t reported it. I hadn’t told anybody. Because again, it was just there was a lot of shame around it. But my best friend and roommate, we went out to see the Dark Knight movie in theaters while we were in California. And when I got back, we are just Hey, I remember I remember like so clearly are certain parts I remember so clearly. Like I barely remember the movie, but I remember getting back to my barracks room and taking off my purse and hanging it on my chair and my roommate and I talking about how good the movie was. I picked up my phone and it vibrated, and I remember looking at it flipping it because it was one of those slidy phones, I was very fancy slidy phone and looking at it, and seeing how was the movie. And it was from him. And I’m not talking to him at this point, like we’re not communicating. And so either one of his friends told him I was there, or he followed me there or something else like it was, it was just it caused me to freeze and chills and and so that was the I was like, Okay, I’m going to report it because he’s obviously not going to stop and this is getting even more dangerous and more scary. And so yeah, so the next day I reported it to a sergeant at my language school and you know, per the rules because I told and I that was the thing is like, I want this to be an unrestricted report because he shouldn’t be allowed to do this to me. So I made sure to tell somebody who was obligated to run it up as an unrestricted report versus telling somebody who was obligated to keep it restricted. And so I ran through the whole process that day I might have chosen to tell him that Sergeant earlier in the day if I had known that like it was going to kick everything off the way that it did. But you know, I got you know, ended up we have in the military, we’ve got a Sexual Assault Response coordinator, at least that’s what they were called at the time sark’s. And then I was also taken with that person, that woman, I was taken to the Criminal Investigative division, their office, the CIT office. And so he’s taking my statement, this officer, and you know, it’s been months now. And he’s like, okay, we don’t really have any evidence. I was like, Well, what if he confessed? And he’s like, would he do that? And I was like, if I call him right now, I think he would. He was like, well, we can record that. And yeah, and then we would use that. He was like, do you think you can do that? And I was like, he Yeah, yeah, cuz he’s been stalking me. And I don’t want to live like this anymore. And so, I’ve got the SARC person on one side, she was on my left side, on the long side of the table, and then the CIT officer was sitting on the short side of the table. And I put my phone on speakerphone, lay it on the table. He’s got a tape recorder right next to it, because we weren’t super fancy yet. And so, he had a tape recorder right next to it, and he’s on speakerphone. And so, I call him and you know, as like, Hey, I got your text message. And so he was just like, Yeah, I just really wanted to talk to you never respond. And so, I just thought that that would get you to respond. And you know, I’m just really sorry, and I just want to get back together. And I was like, but what you did was horrible. And he was like, I know, and I was He’s like, I know, and I should never have done it. I was like, so you admit it then? I was like, so you admit that you raped me that that day? And he was like, Yeah, he’s like I did. And I’m so sorry. And you know, I got off the phone with him. I wasn’t even really listening anymore after he said, after he confessed, and they went and picked him up. And so it seemed like it was in the bag in terms of closure and being over, you know, this part. And the SARC coordinator, she dropped me off back in my barracks room was telling me about all like, the, you know, they’ve got group therapy options, and, you know, I could do individual therapy. And you know, she would schedule me for medical testing, and all these things. And so she said, she would call me and she had some paperwork for me and everything. I was like, okay, and they and like, and then the CD had gone to pick them up. So they Okay, finally, this is over. And it was not, it was not over. I never heard from the SART coordinator ever again, like she disappeared in terms of how I understood things to be, there was never any group therapy or individual therapy or medical testing, which it turned out that I needed because he had given me chlamydia, which I didn’t find out until months later was picked up by ci D. But then, you know, he was released, like, you know, pending the investigation. And it was a few months later when I was getting ready to do my language testing and things so I could leave the language school. I mean, he did have a restraining order, which is hard on a small base. So yeah, so there was a restraining order, but he was pretty good at being present without breaking it. So I was typically the person who left any place where I saw him.

Victoria Volk  14:14
So he was still stalking you at the time?

Ruthie Bowles  14:18
On the way Yeah, yeah, just you know, kind of staying out of the bounds and things like that. And then when I get closer, it’s time for me to leave the jag. That’s our you know, our military judicial officer system. They came back and had my chain of command call me in and I was like, Oh, great. Somebody is about to tell me the results of the case. Great. No, that’s not what’s happening. They call me back in because ci D had stored my recording, which was basically my only piece of evidence as compelling as it was it was the only piece next to some sort of a track unit or air conditioning unit or whatever, that malfunctioned and destroyed. I tape as well as some other people’s thing. And so jag said they had to take my statement and get in all of its detail. And so I gave it again, not thinking and then, you know, it was just kind of, Okay, I took it. And then I just I just wanted to forget about it again, because I needed to go take this language test so I could graduate and it was actually around that time, because you’re doing processing to get off the base. So part of that is medical. So I did do testing and that was around the time as well that I found out that I had chlamydia. Thankfully, it wasn’t anything, you know, permanent. And I was able to, you know, get rid of it. It wasn’t until I moved on to my next duty station, where the jag office was headquartered for the two bases. It was at the next duty station. I walked past it every day, wondering like, Man, what happened, what happened? And then a few months, I had been in there and I started seeing some of his classmates show up. And I was like, what if I walk past him here? Like, nobody has told me what happened, like with my case. So, one day, I go to the jag office, go up to the appropriate floor, I sign in, and I end up in front of one of the same jag officers who took my second statement after my evidence was destroyed. And she was incredibly uncomfortable. And she was like, so nobody told you what happened with your case. Like somebody was supposed to tell you like, didn’t you get contacted by Sark? I’m like, no, I never heard from her ever again. The day after, like the day I reported that was last time I saw her so can you please just tell me and so she said she was incredibly uncomfortable. And so, she told me that because my evidence was destroyed. And all they had was my statement, the Air Force had opted to give him a letter of reprimand. So that was the other part where it was confusing was that it was a Joint Service incident. And so the Air Force was in charge of determining what his punishment was to be not the army. And so the Air Force decided probably based on the merits of the fact that he was such a great airman. Because he was, at least on the surface, right, he got a letter of reprimand. And so, I left the office feeling just like completely let down like I had wished that I had just let him continue to stalk me until we left because that whole process like because it was a unrestricted report, even while I was still at the language school, like there were people talking about me and all this other stuff. And because he was such a good airman on the outside, and he was very charismatic, had a ton of friends, like so then now all of his friends hate me. It was really bad. And I regretted reporting, for sure. So, when it happened the second time, like I was just like, no, y’all are not doing this to me again. And I’m a sergeant now. And I was assaulted by somebody who was one rank lower than me alcohol involved. And it was the day we got back from deployment, like I was in more danger in my own barracks room, then I was over there, they shot at us. That’s true. But the most damage that happened to me was right when I got back home. And so I definitely didn’t report that I was planning, you know, I was I just re enlisted, I was changing duty stations in a few months again, and I didn’t want to be held up there for this guy who had a lot, a lot of things in common in terms of him as a person, because he looked like a great soldier on the surface, he was engaged to somebody who lived across the hall from me, he was, you know, getting ready for promotion, you know, he looked the part of a good soldier. And I was like, yeah, I’m not going up against that again. So I did not report it. The second time, because of that, like that first experience taught me that nobody was going to help me, and that it was just going to be horrible for me.

Victoria Volk  18:27
Thank you for sharing, first of all, your story on that. And I’m curious too, and maybe the listeners were there warning signs for the first time?

Ruthie Bowles  18:42
I mean, just the whole relationship was bad, like, like he was really good at guilting me into things, and making it seem like any emotional hang ups that I had, were like hurting him. And I’m, I’m an incredibly empathetic person, I qualify as a highly sensitive person. And so I’m just I’m very sensitive to the emotions and what I perceive is the needs of other people. And especially at that age, I was very good at subjugating my own needs in favor of taking care of, you know, whoever I considered my people. Now this is fine. In reciprocal relationships where the other person is willing to do as much for you as you are for them. Whether it’s a romantic relationship or a relationship, like a friend relationship, like my best friend at the time, we’re still best friends, because we had that type of relationship where I would do anything for her, but she would also do anything for me. And that was fine. But when you’re that type of person where you will do anything for someone else and an empathetically, you’re so good at just reading body language and my facial expressions and, and things like that, like you pick up and try to take care of and satisfy whatever even if they haven’t said it, and they can hurt you almost as much as if they had, you know, actually struck a blow with a facial expression, or a shift in body language because you’re so in tune with the people around you. And so the whole relationship was a warning sign because he was that type of person to take advantage. The whole relationship was bad. But the thing is, is it looked great on the surface, like many things, it looked great on surf, you know, we looked like a good couple, we did all the right things, we went to the movies together, and we studied together, we went to go eat, and we like to dance like on the surface, things looked good. And so the only person who would have been privy to the warning signs probably would have been me, but I just I wasn’t aware. And because of the the huge culture shock to joining. And basic training, like you volunteer in the United States, you volunteer, but you’re still ripped away from everything, right? Like all the people, as long as you have a healthy home environment, all of the people who love you and your friends and everything that’s familiar, you’re ripped away and thrown into this thing. And and when I went through basic training, they still screamed in your face. Right, like, I remember crying the first day because like, like I could have been in college, and here I am getting dirty and dusty, and there’s dirt in my eyes, and I’m just crying into the dirt because I can’t do all these pushups that they want me to do, like, the culture shock was still happening even at the language school, it doesn’t wear off because you’re still adjusting. And then of course, having the relationship with the boyfriend back home go bad, coupled with all of those other things, I was just like, a quivering pile of vulnerability in a set of AC use the army combat uniform, at like just waiting for somebody to walk by and take advantage. You know, maybe that’s something that should be more readily considered, at least in terms of training soldiers, you know, probably very much like college students. But with a bit more extreme ness, you know, when compared with the college experience in terms of how you’re, you know, you’re you’re pulled in and how you’re broken down and built back up. I obviously was not built back up in some of the right places. You know, basic training is not necessarily meant to give you you know, emotional resilience and understanding, you know, how those types of things can happen to you in relationships. They don’t put those up on the quarterly slideshows.

Victoria Volk  22:35
Well, one thing too, the military doesn’t take into consideration. And I’ve spoken about this before on in other podcasts and things like that, but that they never really do a screening of what’s happened to you, what have you gone through in your life? What are your aces, you know, in, you know, your adverse childhood experiences? Because the more aces you have, the more susceptible you are, to having addiction issues, you’re more vulnerable to somebody to take advantage of you. When you haven’t processed any childhood trauma or anything like that. That’s one thing I wish that they would do for people who want to enlist in the military. So, thank you for bringing that point up. I think it’s very important. And for parents who are listening, and their kid wants to join the military take into consideration it isn’t for everybody. Would you agree? Like it’s not for everybody.

Ruthie Bowles  23:35
It’s not and then even just on the surface, when you look at the number of people who you know, would fail out, or what we would say whether they would recycle, they’d have to do it again, those are all those are all indicators. And just to be clear, I loved being a soldier. I loved it. And part of what I felt like my mission as a soldier was was to improve things so those types of things, at least happened less or stopped happening all together, I had decided that I was gonna I was going to retire I was going to be like that crunchy old Sergeant that people just didn’t understand why this person doesn’t just get out. I wanted to be that person because I wanted to be in long enough to incite real change and to help people and to try and affect some culture change. So for people who want to join or parents who have children who want to join I like I had the person I am right now I would not be without my experience. And my military experience overall was positive. It was like I like I said, if I if I hadn’t felt like I had to get out when I was pregnant with my third child, I would still be in but maybe instead I would be okay now. You know, Ruby’s Master Sergeant. bowls are something you know, I wanted to be a Command Sergeant Major. And I wanted to make serious changes within what we call the sexual harassment, Assault Response Program sharp, I wanted to be involved in making serious changes there. So just just to be clear, I do love the person that I am right now. And I again looking back like I can’t. Now I can’t say I wish those things hadn’t happened, because I’ve learned that I was strong enough to bear it. And now I’m in a position where I can talk with people like you openly about it, and hopefully, give some encouragement and energy and hope to people who aren’t yet at a point where they feel comfortable sharing when something like this happens, you feel incredibly alone, and there’s so much shame that you bear that is not your own. And that is the position I’m in now is that I can share. At a minimum, I can share and hope that somebody will hear it, who needs to hear it and gives them something, whatever they need whatever they can extract from my story, I hope that they extract it, and they can take what they need from it. And so that is the position I’m in now. And I’m just grateful that I was a strong enough person to be able to bear it and then move forward,

Victoria Volk  26:15
I would agree to like it, if it wouldn’t have been for my military experience, I wouldn’t be the person I am today, it was a very positive experience for me as well. I’m just saying for someone who’s gone through, you know, sexual trauma or things like that broken homes, for a lot of people, it’s a way out to join the military, because it’s a way out there escaping something. And so in those instances, and then you go on, you deploy and some people deploy time after time after time, and that’s where the mental health crisis within the military is what it is today. So all of it plays a factor and things that need to change and be addressed. And I think they’re, I think there’s strides being taken and doing so far. There was actually an episode of ABC 2020. I just watched this last weekend. I DVR it, DVR a lot of crime shows anyway, but it was about Vanessa again. And she was a I believe a private first class for a promotion, who had been being sexually harassed by a fellow soldier who was higher ranking than her I think a sergeant at the time and ended up being ultimately murdered by him because she was going to report it. And towards the end of the episode representative Jackie’s spire spear, I’m not sure how you say it. She’s the US House of Representatives in California, she had said, and I want to share the statistic because I think it’s important. She said that 20,000 service members are sexually assaulted every year, only 5000 of them will report it. And of the 5000 only 500 will go to a court martial. And only 250 of those 500 will actually be convicted. And she said what does that tell anyone who has been sexually assaulted? don’t report because you will not receive justice. And I think this is very similar. I mean, this story. And this was at Fort Hood, which has this story really opened a can of worms on it is happening at Fort Hood. There’s a huge internal and external investigation going on right now. But I think though that story is one of millions. And it’s not just the military, it’s just in general, I think in sexual assault, you don’t report because you’re scared because you’re intimidated by your offender or feel shame.

Ruthie Bowles  28:40
And her numbers in terms of who it’s happening to, like I would even question those, right? Because you can’t like we in the military, we’ve got the restricted and unrestricted reports. Right. But then you also have people who don’t report at all, right? Like my second, my second one was not counted. Why? Because I did not report it at all. And I lived in a military barracks, our floor was male and female, half the floor was female. So he just walked down the hallway, you know, um, and that’s just it is it is, what it is, at least in terms of how things were set up, and how vulnerable you know, a position we were in, but you can’t count people who don’t report, not necessarily so even that 20,000 like that’s an estimate. That’s an error, for sure. And I’m willing to bet that it’s worse because, you know, alcohol, you know, abuse and such runs rampant, especially when you look at the bases who deployed time and time again, that the base that I was on, where I deployed from they they were like 12 months on 12 months off. So they deployed pretty much every other year, and then they just plugged you back in. They’re like yeah, okay, you’re back now. Don’t crash your car, or that new motorcycle you just bought, which happens all the time.

Victoria Volk  29:52
Well, and you’re so young, right? Like you said, 18 like you don’t know yourself when you’re 18 I think some people we don’t I like, I don’t even think I really knew myself until oh, gosh, 35?

Ruthie Bowles  30:04
Yeah, I’m learning new things about me. It’s wonderful.

Victoria Volk  30:10
Yeah, so I think it’s just like, how can you possibly, it is there’s so much responsibility. First of all, I think that we have when we’re in the military when you wear the uniform, and there’s a different culture there for sure. Yeah. Um, how has this impacted you? Do you feel as a parent?

Ruthie Bowles  30:34
So, this, uh, my experiences, to be honest, any time and I mean, it’s not that anybody has a way of knowing that anytime somebody says that it’s easier to raise boys than it is to raise girls. Anytime somebody says that. I like whether I see it on Facebook, somebody says it out loud. I always reflect on my experiences. I don’t want to say that it’s like a trigger. Exactly. Because I don’t, at least not anymore. emotionally. I don’t like spiral necessarily. But I do. I am bit more vocal about it now. But I was a girl, right young woman who was sexually assaulted twice, I was sexually assaulted by two young men. I have three boys. And it was like, oh, you finally got your girl, you’re gonna have to watch out for her. And it’s like, that’s true. Like, you know, people talk about girls, you know, getting pregnant, but they get pregnant because they have sex with boys. You know? And it’s like, oh, if your girl goes out like what if something happens to her. More than likely if something happens to her and it’s of a sexual nature, it’s going to be by a boy. Boys are not easier to raise than girls. As much as I don’t want my daughter to go out and have something bad happened to her, I do not want my son’s to go out and be the bad thing that happens to somebody else’s daughter and so that is something that I always think about any time that comes up like Oh your boy mom, or at least when I was just just a boy mom, it was so easy. I always think of that and anybody who has sons like I think that should be a concern. You have to have those conversations with your children no matter their gender, or what they identify as because if it’s not openly stated, then they’re not going to know their options. Right? Like if something happens at a high school party or college or something and nothing was ever openly stated like hey, if this happens to you, this is what we’re going to go do and you know, we’ll talk about options after that but we at least want to make sure you go to the doctor and you know here are some warning signs that maybe somebody is following you or or anything like or talk to like so in my case it would be talking to for sure to my son’s and make sure like, Hey, don’t let peer pressure allow you to take advantage of somebody like that’s not okay, in fact, I better see you keep your friends from trying to take advantage of that person as well. Like it’s talking about the entire scenario, not just as if they have the potential for being a victim but also if they have the potential for being a perpetrator and what that looks like because as a culture, you know a dude and I’m you know, I’m using this as a stereotypical setup, because anybody can be sexually assaulted. But especially in the military, a dude, you know, hooking up with a girl who’s had too much to drink. That’s a high five moment, right?

Victoria Volk  33:20
College too, especially, right?

Ruthie Bowles  33:23
Yeah, notch on the bedpost, good for you, you got game, you know, ladies, man, that’s what that is. That’s how they see it. That’s how they’re taught to see it, it’s a display of their masculinity, when Instead, it should be viewed as, hey, you’re a perpetrator, you’re taking advantage of this person. That’s how they need to be taught. And so that is what I feel is my responsibility as a parent is to do that for my children not to talk to them, just as if they only have the potential to be victims. We’re human, there’s a duality in us for great good or for great evil and it’s my job. As a parent I feel to prepare my children for either to prepare them for the the fact that they may be in a position one day where no, they weren’t like following, you know, maybe some stranger from a bar or something. Maybe this is somebody that they go to class with or work with. So no, you weren’t like stalking them down the street and hiding in the shadows. But that is not what the vast majority of sexual assault perpetrators look like. They don’t look like somebody creeping in the shadows, they look like someone you know. Now we have to be more open and talking about that, especially as individuals in terms we have the power to either, you know, be somebody who’s standing steps up for people who are in a vulnerable position, or somebody who takes advantage of people in those vulnerable positions. So as a parent, it’s something I think about a lot, especially as I look at my kids and my oldest one is nine and my youngest one, she’s two and a half. And it’s something I think about a lot because I want to share my experiences with them not in such a way that it like scars them necessarily, but I often hold myself up as Hey, this could happen. And if you learn something from my story whether you know me or you’re my child and it’s intimate or, or you’re my brother or my sister because I have five siblings, whether whoever you are, if you take something from the story, then great. And that’s why I try so hard to openly share it. So even with my kids, it’s being very open about okay. She said she’d like so Evelyn, that’s my daughter. Sometimes she doesn’t want a hug. And the boys get sad. They’re like, Oh, I’m sad that she was 100 mins like, Okay, well give her a few minutes, you know, maybe you can ask her again. But she said no, right now. So you need to leave it alone. He’s like, Yeah, she gave me a hug a few minutes ago. I was okay, but she doesn’t want to give you a hug right now. So you need to leave her alone. And then like, usually, like 30 seconds later, I was like, Huh, you know, but you can’t force her. And it’s even to the same among the boys. Even when they’re playing. It’s like okay, well, you know, Cameron says he doesn’t want to play anymore right now. You can’t just keep roughhousing with him and he doesn’t want to play anymore. He said not to touch him anymore. But we were just playing. I don’t care. He said he doesn’t want play anymore.

Victoria Volk  36:00
No, is no.

Ruthie Bowles  36:01
No is no.

Victoria Volk  36:02
And if we don’t I absolutely I love that this came up because when you don’t instill that in your child when they’re young that knows no, and when I say no, it deserves to be respected.

Ruthie Bowles  36:15
Yeah.

Victoria Volk  36:16
That someone will stick up for me if someone isn’t listening, right? Well, he might advocate for me How do you ever learn to say no when you’re 16, 24, 35 whatever it is, right?

Ruthie Bowles  36:29
Whatever age, yeah. And that’s the big thing. And yeah, we just we have to make okay getting that consent like that is we need to make getting consent attractive.

Victoria Volk  36:40
Yep. I agree.

Ruthie Bowles  36:41
We’ll like having those types of discussions like and it’s all I think it’s probably a larger conversation, but it’s all shrouded in the general sense of shame we have regarding animals anything of a sexual nature right so if the very act itself even when it’s among consenting adults is shrouded in even a layer of shame. How like anything that comes after that just has additional shame. Like even and even for myself you know being you know in a relationship I’m married my experiences made it really hard to talk about you know, certain things you know, whatever it was that I was you know, interested in things that I like things that I didn’t like it made it hard to, to even even on the emotional side of the relationship to be comfortable with any type of confrontation, any type of confrontation, because if I like then I after the first time I went through this phase where it was like well if I don’t say no, then you can’t take it from me. Right whatever it is. If I don’t say no, you’re not taking it from me. But I mean if I if I give my consent 100% of the time even if I technically don’t want to I mean that that was an internal battle that I had to learn how to fight because I was mostly on my own but yeah, we have to make getting consent and having those types of conversations and incredibly attractive thing and as my kids get older it’ll be something that we talk about because you know just because you know our sexual activities are you know, private. I want to try and be as clear as possible in terms of the fact that it should not have any shame attached to it like we like we all go to the bathroom Yes, we shut the door, but is what you’re doing in there shameful. No, but we shut the door. And I just I want that to be a more clear distinction like just because I’m shutting the door doesn’t mean that it should be I should be embarrassed. And that’s something else I’m hoping to teach my kids as we have you know, those types of conversations around you know, anything related to sex.

Victoria Volk  38:43
I love that analogy. Thank you for sharing that.

Ruthie Bowles  38:45
You’re welcome.

Victoria Volk  38:46
And my son is 15 and then I have a 14 year old and almost 12 year old so yeah, I’m starting to navigate the teen years and I just remember how hard it is you know you just you start to remember and think back to when you’re a teenager and just how difficult those waters are to navigate and and again to like with my son it’s it’s showing him no this is not how you talk about girls. This is not how you refer to other two females or things like that, you know, having that conversation of of just respect. How do you show respect? Like what does respect look like towards the opposite sex and yeah, I think that’s huge too. I mean, it really comes down to respect.

Ruthie Bowles  39:37
Yeah, for sure. And just kind of normalizing it you know, and being very clear so you know, I mean, we’re careful even about like what the kids watch like if we’re not around and stuff like that, because there’s a lot that slid in under the radar. I realized now in terms of you know what I saw on TV or heard on the radio when I was growing up a lot slid under the radar. A lot And you know, so we have to, we have to keep an eye on that. I mean in nothing, no system, no person is perfect. We can’t it’s not this not about trying to keep them in a bubble necessarily, but my biggest thing is that if something happens, I want my kids to feel as if they can come back to me, if they’re in a situation, I want them to have heard me say how important consent is so many times that they can’t help but think about it in any situation that they’re in where it comes up. And, you know, and that’s, that’s, you know, that’s what I feel like I can be for my family, for my friends from my network is just, you know, oh, I don’t know anybody that this has happened to, it’s like, well, no, no, you know, me, you know, me and I can tell you with 1,000% certainty is mathematically improbable or impossible is that is that, you know, people, they’re just not comfortable sharing with you, but you know, them, and they are probably way closer than you think they are. They are probably way closer than you think they are. They could be your aunts; they could be your mom. It could be your dad or your grandparents your uncle’s like, it could be anybody. But because of that shame, they haven’t shared with you. And, and symptoms of what we go through pop up so far after. That was something I did want to say because I was so surprised when it came up. But when I became a federal contractor, I started experiencing anxiety any time I was alone with a service member, who was a man or identified as a man, who was, you know, had a man appearance, and they were in uniform, I started experiencing severe anxiety, if I ended up alone with them. And you’re thinking like, well, how would you end up alone with them, the place I used to work has a ton of elevators. And you might be surprised or not at the number of times, you would end up in an elevator with just two people, especially when you know traffic isn’t high. And if it wasn’t if it wasn’t just me and one other person who was me and like, you know, if it was like two soldiers or Airmen in the sailor or something, and they were in the elevator, I would have to get off the elevator. I could not stay in the elevator with them. Now it was fine for service members that I’d gotten to know that were maybe like that I worked with every day, I did not experience that anxiety with them. But I still felt a low-grade anxiety, you know, in terms of like being alone with them. But I think it happened because I no longer had what I considered my shield, which was my uniform with my name and rank on it. Because I was a staff sergeant when I got out, and I had cultivated this persona that was pretty rough shot and you know, would completely like snap on you before asking questions like don’t mess with her, she will kick in your teeth type of personality. And I cultivated on purpose because you don’t mess with the person who you think is gonna kick you in the face. No, wait, I cultivated that personality on purpose and my uniform. And I didn’t realize how much how much I had used my uniform as a shield. But I did. And so when I went back to working in an environment with servicemembers, and I was in civilian clothes, I felt like and I often feel this way about my civilian clothes, particularly if I’m on when when we went to events if I was on my way home from an evening event, and I was in the dark when I was at work and you know, ended up in those situations. My civilian clothes felt like a trap. They felt like some sort of flag that said I was prey. And that’s something I’ve had to wrestle with, especially now as an entrepreneur and I would attend events in the evening, I would ask, you know, people to walk me to my car, because I was like I’m wearing a dress right now, which seemed like a really good idea. But now it just feels like it’s like hey, come get me. Here I am. And it saddens me to hear that but that is a new development as my life has changed. And my experience color my experiences color my perception of of, you know, my day to day, because I never used to feel that way when I was dressed in civilian clothes when I was a service member. But now that I civilian clothes, or what I wear all the time, that is something that I you know, I started going through and so being an entrepreneur now I don’t really have to worry about running into service members. But that is something I reflect on as in my time as a federal contractor like I being in an elevator with a service member was something I could not tolerate if I did not know them. And there were two parts of me one side of my brain is like that’s pretty horrible, that there’s a part of you that just assumes that this person could attack you. There’s like That’s true, but I also didn’t think the two people who actually did attack me would know, so I just get off the elevator. And I, I’m not sure how else things will pop up. But, you know, I’m actually going through the process right now of filing a VA claim. So, we will see in terms of how they’re able to evaluate my PTSD and anxiety and things, what will come from that. And because this is a newer experience for me, I’ve never gone through the VA claims process before. I am not as positive like I’m not experiencing as much positive energy regarding it. Because with this specific occurrence, and the subsequent things that have happened, since I’ve been taught over and over that the system is not to be relied on the system is not to be trusted. And so while I want this to work out, I want the VA to look at me. And I guess that’s the problem is I want the VA to look at me and acknowledge you went through these things. And they were horrible, and you’re suffering as a result of these things. And so we will be able to, you know, give you these benefits, whatever they are. The fear, of course, is that it’ll be just like, what happened to 19 year old me? And it will be, yeah, no, that’s not bad enough.

Victoria Volk  46:19
Like a victimization again?

Ruthie Bowles  46:21
Right. Like or did that even happen? Like did it happen the way that you remember it. Because this this here? This doesn’t sound very bad at all.

Victoria Volk  46:29
Well, look how much time has passed?

Ruthie Bowles  46:32
Yeah, yeah, like I got out in 2015. So it’s like, well, why didn’t you file then? Even though there’s no statute of limitations on when you can file your VA claim? FYI. So yeah, so it’s just so we’ll see what happens. But my my fear now is that of course, the the process will dig deep into my case, my reported case, at least, and come up with nothing, right? Like, I never saw the SARC person again, I never heard from CIT. There was a letter of reprimand, which probably got lost somewhere, I am afraid that they will have nothing to find.

Victoria Volk  47:05
I thought of a question. And I actually thought of it too, as I watched that ABC special but being in the military, I don’t even know the answer to this. Maybe you do. But what would have stopped you from reporting him as like on the civilian side? Like, could you it not have been? Like, is there something to it that the military is almost like its own institution in that way, when it comes to criminal acts? Like why is it that you couldn’t have reported the first incident to your local police department versus going through the military chain?

Ruthie Bowles  47:43
I think the military ends up with jurisdiction, I think, at least that’s the way it’s kind of always that I’ve always understood it. And that could be accidental or purposeful, misunderstanding that was, you know, cultivated during my time in, but it’s my understanding, because we have our own, technically, we have our own, you know, law type structure, that unless you go out and do something like, like a soldier who’s out there, you know, drinking and driving, yeah, they’re getting arrested. They’re getting arrested. And I mean, it’s incredibly likely, though, that if a chain of command is like, hey, police department, we’re actually going to give them to the MPs. And I know that most civilians feel like our military, police, and structure and our law and stuff is actually more harsh than there. So, they probably happily hand them over. But you know, if you’re out on the town, and you’re speeding, you will get a regular person ticket, you know, but if you’re on base, you will get a ticket from the police on base. So I think that if what I had gone through had been perpetrated by civilians that probably would have exclusive like that would have immediately been under the civilian police, because yes, I’m a soldier, but the perpetrator, right is, and then vice versa, if the perpetrator is military, and the victim, the survivor is civilian, then that again, that again, probably becomes a question of jurisdiction. But the civilian police would certainly be involved, whether they work things out, you know, with the military side or not, but we were both service members. Now again, I could be wrong. But one of the things I teach you though, is like that faith in the military, that faith in the system, filing some type of complaint or report to the local PD, never even crossed my mind. And once everything, you know, it was over, I just, I was tired. I was tired, and I was let down and I wanted to forget it as much as was possible. But it’s not it’s not possible. There are days I go without thinking about it. That’s true now, but I’m never going to forget it. It’s never not going to happen. impact on me, the one thing I can say is that as time goes on, I’ve been changing the type of impact that it has on me. So, it does not damage me to talk about it with you. It is not damaged me to talk about it with anybody, I may feel a little withdrawn later. So, I may curl up with like a book or something, just to kind of emotionally unplug a little bit. But when I was still serving, and we had our quarterly sexual harassment and assault training, like the programs that they would put us through in terms of like the the training, I would be emotionally upset for like a day or two, I would, I would, I would warn my husband ahead of time, I’d be like, hey, we’re doing sharp training today. And he’s like, okay, okay, and he would know, I would come home, like I just I would need to eat, I would not want to talk because I would just get so angry. I get so angry at those on every slide that went by, they would do this. And I’m like, yeah, so nobody can help us Screw you, too, you know. So it just made me so mad sitting through those trainings. Like I just, I can’t like I can’t believe you guys made me sit through this, because you’re just lying. Like, I would just get so mad. And I was very angry about it and hurt. And that doesn’t happen anymore. And I think it’s because I’ve started to, I started to view my experience not as something, I don’t view it as something that happened to me anymore. So much as I view it as something that I can use to help other people just in the telling of it. And once I started viewing it that way, and it’s now a teaching tool, as horrible as it was. It’s a teaching tool now. And so it hurts me, it doesn’t hurt me at all, to share it. And then I just need some time to kind of like emotionally recharge.

Victoria Volk  51:42
What is one thing that you found most unhelpful to you, as you’re going through, as it as it really kind of came to a head in your life? Both of those experiences?

Ruthie Bowles  51:56
The thing that was definitely the most unhelpful was trying to figure out what I could have done differently. I’m a big believer in, you know, taking ownership and responsibility for things. And so, I was raised that way, but I was applying it wrong. I was trying to figure out how I could have changed what happened to me not including, in my analysis, that I had absolutely no control over their choices. I had no control over them, what they thought what they felt what they decided to do, I had no control over that. And I kept plaguing myself with that question. The same question that other people well, what were you wearing? And all these things, right? Like, what could you have done to keep yourself from being assaulted? Like, what could I have done? Especially the second time because it was like, I just I just let an F bomb go. I was about to drop one. But it was like, What the heck, like a second time Really? Like, what are you doing? What are you doing that it would happen to you a second time those types of questions were incredibly unhelpful, they did a lot of damage as well, because it just mentally turns and turns and turns? I had no control over them. And what they chose to do, I only had control over me. So as a result, like those experiences definitely influenced choices I made after, right. But those are the only things that I could control. And then you know, I had to be a little careful of going too far to the left in terms of reacting too far left or right in terms of reacting as a result of that. And that was you know, that was another struggle that I had as I grew older and was able to view those experiences in a different light.

Victoria Volk  53:50
And help that shame fade away with more empowerment, right?

Ruthie Bowles  53:55
Yes, yes.

Victoria Volk  53:56
What is one tip that you would give someone listening today who has been sexually assaulted in military or otherwise?

Ruthie Bowles  54:05
So, I know that it’s not necessarily for everybody in terms of the way that I’ve shared my story. But I did not start out sharing my story in interviews and things like that. I started out, sharing just the one sentence with a friend, my best friend who was with me the day that I went and saw that movie. And I told her, I was like, you know, that person? She’s like, yeah, so he raped me. And that was all I shared. At first, it was just the one sentence of course, the other thing that you can control in that instance, is that you want to be careful about who you share it with. Because what you want is somebody who is open to listen and receive your story and not somebody who’s immediately going to interview and quiz you. Like I think after I shared it with you the first time, we just had a cup of tea you know, because that’s just the way We were, but they’re even like I said, like it’s not it’s not about getting on and interviews and things like that like that is the way that I’ve chosen to use my story. But if you can share it with somebody and receive maybe some of the compassion that you haven’t been able to extend to yourself. That was something that helped me a lot initially, because I felt like I was able to tell somebody, and unlike the army, and unlike that guy’s friends and stuff, that was somebody who completely validated what I had experienced. And I felt safe and comfortable. And that like being able to do that is probably a huge reason why I’m able to be vulnerable at all, versus, you know, completely shutting down and not being able to even have healthy relationships.

Victoria Volk  55:54
Grief recovery, we call those special people in our lives a heart with ears.

Ruthie Bowles  55:58
Oh, that’s amazing.

Victoria Volk  55:59
Yeah, someone who won’t criticize, analyze, or judge and can just sit with you. Yeah, I love that, that you said that you just had a cup of tea. I love that, that she was there for you, for you in that time. So, ways that others supported you that you found most helpful. You just kind of mentioned, you know, your friend that just sat with you. What are other things that you can think of to share that might be helpful? You know, I? How about your husband, your husband supported you and your immediate family? How about that?

Ruthie Bowles  56:34
So, in terms of my husband, that is actually that was a close one. Because after the second time, the second assault, you know, I was home, and he asked me to marry him. We were just dating at the time. And he asked me to marry him. And I said, yes. But that second time was so new, and there was a lot just kind of shrouded in mystery. And I hadn’t told him because I was afraid. Because being in the culture, I felt like it was very easy for him to either see it my way, or be like, no, you cheated on me. Like there’s alcohol involved and whatever. And he demonstrated the power that somebody else could have if they have enough knowledge to help you. Because we, we almost broke up. Like after he asked me to marry him. We almost broke up because of the way that I was behaving and stuff. He was positive. He was like, you’re not, you’re not on board with this the way that I’m on board with this. Something’s going on. There’s something you’re not telling me. And I’m like, no, of course, I’m lying. Like, no, you There’s nothing I’m keeping from you. It’s fine. And he’s like, why are you acting like this? And I’m like, it’s fine. That was not fine. And I think he was probably like, a hair’s breadth away from being like, look, we’re not, we’re not getting married. We’re not together, like, I don’t know what you’re doing. But I can’t do this anymore. And we were in a hotel room, because we were in Virginia visiting with my grandparents, we were sitting in bed, he had gone through my phone and found something I can’t remember. And he’s like, what is going on? And I sat there, and I just knew I was like, if I say that nothing’s happening, and everything’s fine. One more time, he’s gonna leave am I okay with him leaving. And I just I was not okay with that. And so, I just I it was a short synopsis. Very short, just told him you know, the day that we got back from Afghanistan, one of the soldiers in the barracks he came into my room after I’d had a couple of wine coolers that I weigh overestimated my tolerance for being just freshly back from Afghanistan and he raped me and then I got up without another word and went into the shower because my skin was crawling and I came out and he was still just sitting on the bed looking devastated and then we just laid there for a while. And it was it was still hard after that right because I still had a lot of things you know to work through. And I mean, he’s four years older than me so I mean I was young and he was a little bit older but not that much older and I don’t think it really matters what age you are when somebody tells you something like that it’s still very shocking, but we were able to move on after that, you know, and he knew like what I didn’t like I didn’t give them the nitty gritty details or anything at that time because I wasn’t capable of sharing that yet but over time, I was able to just you know, kind of reveal everything and share it with him and and just explain everything that happened you know, he you know, because one of the things that happened was I got new friends, right as soon as we got back and we were long distance, he’s like, Who are these people? You know, and they were people I felt safe with this what it was and so that was part of it. And so yeah, so it’s just it was he was incredibly supportive and and you know, in terms of like our relationship he got really good at looking for when I was hiding my wants and needs. And he would push me and be like, no, come on, what do you really want here? Like what what he’s really like I can tell there’s something bothering you just go ahead and tell me like don’t he’s like I’ll if you want to leave it alone for right now we can leave it alone, and we’ll talk about it later. But we do you need to talk about it, you know, so you got good at seeing when I was hiding, because I got good at that. And that was just really important for our relationship and for our family. Because the depth of our relationship now is completely different and just deeper than it was, you know, in the beginning. And I think that that is something that I needed, right? Like I have one person in the whole world that I can be that deep with. And I could be that vulnerable with to share every detail and everything. And that was something that I needed, that I think unconsciously, I didn’t even realize it but I thought that I was never going to be able to have.

Victoria Volk  1:01:02
So, my question to now is when you weren’t talking about it? What were some of the characteristics? So let’s say you’re in a friendship, let’s say I have a friend or my friend group or whatever. And what are some characteristics of someone who has been assaulted? Like what are some characteristics that you would think someone would exhibit who has been sexually assaulted that someone like, you know, if you’re not feeling like talking about it, sometimes you just want someone to ask you what’s wrong, or you know what’s going on or?

Ruthie Bowles  1:01:36
So, some people think, like, so one of the big ones, especially when I after the first one, and I was so much younger, you know, it’s 1920 ish 1819 was when it happened. And so, it rippled through my early 20s. And I arguably the second one happened still in my early 20s. So just was not a very good late teens, early 20s. For me, so a lot of people think that if you are sexually assaulted, then you would not want to have sex at all anymore. Right? And that is actually not necessarily true for everyone. For myself, at least after that happened, and there was probably like a refractory period where I was just like, this is all overwhelming. I don’t want to, like everybody get away from me. Once I got to the new duty station. I, I was at that duty station for like six months. And I think I must have had like, I mean, for me, it was a lot. But it was probably like, five guys that I dated in sequential order, not concurrently, but like I dated. And because we were dating, like, as soon as they were like, yeah, you want to go to Home Base. It was I was in that position where I was like, well, if I say yes, then they can’t take it. So, I said Yes, right. I think that was something my roommate picked up on was kind of like, hey, not judging Exactly. But your patterns of behavior are a bit different than they used to be, like, the whole time I was at the language school, which was like a year, I was with my boyfriend long distance, and then that one guy, and then we get to a new base, and I’m running through them, like water. So, it’s very serious change in behavior. And the reason why, like I said was if I if I’m not saying no, then you can’t take it. And then it also kind of having them as like, you know, dating them. And then you know, being boyfriends or whatever, it kind of helped protect me in terms of I could always say, well, I have a boyfriend, I have a boyfriend, instead of saying, actually I just don’t like you, and then having somebody get offended and then you know, attack me or something later changes in behavior, probably a pretty big one. And then to be honest gaslighting, like, if you’re sensing that there’s a change in behavior, or a change in attitude or something with somebody, and they’re insisting that you’re crazy for it. There’s probably something going on, because I was good at that, too. I mean, I had a very horrible, good teacher. But you know, people would be like, Oh, you’re acting really different. Are you okay? And I’m like, I’m fine. You’ve been acting different though. You just completely turn it around, like, or maybe not even gaslighting, but you bring up them and then they ask you about something about you like maybe last week you were complaining about your boyfriend or your girlfriend, and then you ask about them. And they’re like, no, yeah, I’m totally fine. But what was going on with, you know, you and Stacey or you know, you and john, like what happened? And then now all of a sudden, you’re like, oh, yeah, that happened. And you’re completely distracted now. So they become really good at misdirection. And so, if you are worried about somebody, you’re going to have to be gentle, but focused, you’re gonna have to be gentle, but focus, and you’re also going to have to realize that it may take you more than one try, because that’s the other thing like are you just just testing me? Like, are you just trying or like, are you in it to win it? Are you actually in this with me? Are you ready to hear what it is? That I could tell you if I choose to? Now if you’re just like, oh, are you okay? And then you believe me when I say that I’m fine. Okay, well, you obviously weren’t ready to hear it. But I mean, in a way, that’s kind of what happened with my husband when we were engaged, right? Like he kept insisting something was wrong. And I was like, No, you’re not ready for this, you’re not ready for this. And so I just kept insisting, and he kept trying, and he kept trying, and he kept trying, and then it just reached a point where I was not okay with him walking away, because he had tried so many times. And that, you know, it was just that I was afraid of telling him. So, it got to a point where I was positive, he was gonna walk away. Either he was gonna walk away, because I didn’t tell him, or he was gonna walk away, because he didn’t believe man. In such case, I probably shouldn’t be with him, or he was going to hear what I had to say. And he was going to believe me. So, in those three scenarios, two of them, he was walking away anyway. So at that point, I’d reached a point where I just felt like I didn’t really have much left to lose in terms of him and that our relationship, but that’s, that’s the big thing, you want to be gentle, but you want to be focused, because your first attempts at trying to get them to confide in you will probably fail, they will probably fail unless you catch them at just the right moment. But if they’ve had time to kind of fortify and that shame to kind of, you know, weave into their barriers and things, it’s probably going to take you more than one one try. And it’s not a reflection on how much they like you or love you or anything like that. But you are literally wrestling with this monster, and you just can’t do anything else. Like I don’t have, I don’t have the space to trust you right now. Because I am wrestling with this inside of me. And you know, you’re going to have to knock on this door more than once. Because I’m fighting so hard here. And I’m exhausted. And you know, the first few times that you try, I just can’t open that door, I can’t do it. Because how do I know you’re not going to come inside and transform into another monster that I have to deal with? I have to now then I have to wrestle with the assault and your rejection, you know, and you saying that it was my fault, or I could have worn something else or not gone out that late that I have to wrestle with both of those things. So that’s why I think sometimes it takes more than one try. Like you would think if you’ve never gone through anything traumatic like that, that’s so tied up in the shame as well. You would think Well, why don’t you just tell me you tell me everything. It’s like, well, I’ve never had anything like this to tell you before. So, you got to be gentle, you got to be focused, and you just got to be in it for the long haul. Because I’m telling you is definitely not like that might be one of the hardest things that you are able to do initially in terms of getting them to confide in you. But the battle, you know, isn’t over for that person.

Victoria Volk  1:07:49
That’s grief that never goes away. It just changes.

Ruthie Bowles  1:07:51
Yeah.

Victoria Volk  1:07:52
And so and and with Grievers, you know, just this is what we say to like, if you want to be a heart with ears, you just show your support. Let them know you’re there. And when they’re ready. You’ll know they’ll let you know, right?

Ruthie Bowles  1:08:11
Yeah.

Victoria Volk  1:08:12
Thank you so much, Ruthie, is there anything else that you would like to share today?

Ruthie Bowles  1:08:17
I just want to say thank you for, you know, building the platform that you’ve built. The topics that you touch on that you dive deep on here are not topics that people consider for everyday consumption. But but they are topics that some that somebody somewhere is going through every day, you know, and, you know, this is one piece of the story that I’ve shared. But we all go through a variety of different things. And this experience does not define my identity by any stretch of the imagination. But it does help so much to share. And I know that you’re helping a lot of people by addressing these topics that people are like, Oh, that’s not polite conversation, or that’s too heavy. It’s like okay, well this is something that we’re walking around with every day you are surrounded by people who have things that are too heavy every day. So just thank you so much for opening the floor for you know these types of conversations.

Victoria Volk  1:09:25
Thank you for sharing that with me, means a lot. Yeah, my why’s is pretty big for this podcast, so but it’s because of beautiful souls like you who are willing to share your story and I’m just being a heart with ears. and hoping that the messages that the hurting hearts share with others bring hope. There is hope there’s hope to have a beautiful life of a beautiful marriage, children, all the good things that life can give us right?

Ruthie Bowles  1:09:56
Absolutely.

Victoria Volk  1:09:57
Thank you so much again, Ruthie. If people want Want to reach out to you? Where can they find you?

Ruthie Bowles  1:10:01
Looking me up on social media is probably a good place to start Ruthie Bowles, in terms of what I do professionally, defythestatus quo.com if you’re in search of any personal branding and marketing information, but yeah, those are probably the best places to reach me. I am very easily found. A Google search will actually also help you find me very easily.

Victoria Volk  1:10:29
Awesome and I’ll put the information in the show notes as well. Thank you, listeners, for tuning into Ruthie story today. I hope it helps you or someone you love. Until next time, take care much love. And when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life.

Pin It on Pinterest

Share This
Skip to content