Takeaways & Reflections | Out from the Shadows of Suicide & Mental Illness

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

This episode digs more deeply into the grief of those left behind when a loved one dies by suicide. I also share three unhelpful words for grievers related to grief due to sudden and traumatic loss, particularly suicide.

In this episode are some personal takeaways or a-ha’s that have stuck with me. This episode is all about that and more from my interviews with David Woods Bartley and Bob Krulish.

David shared his personal story of attempted suicide and his life with clinical depression. And, Bob shared his life-long battle with Bipolar Disorder, which took 35 years to receive an official diagnosis. In the meantime, he lost everything and everyone he loved. Essentially, both stories are stories of tremendous loss (i.e., grief).

You can listen to David’s 2-Part Interview in episodes 21  HERE and 22 HERE. Catch Bob’s episode 24 HERE.

Connect with David Woods Bartley:

Connect with Bob Krulish:

This is Episode 24 takeaways and reflections from the interviews with David Woods Bartley and Bob Kulish. If you have not listened to those episodes, which would be Episode 21, 22, and 23, then that’s what this episode is all about. David’s episode was split into two parts, because it was just an amazing conversation, as was the one with Bob.

And so today, I just want to dig a little deeper into the topics that we covered. David came on the podcast to share his story of suicidal ideation, attempted suicide, and just clinical depression and how his life’s work of working with animals and an animal sanctuary has kind of shaped the work that he does today, which is public speaking. And he’s a trainer for QPR, which is question, persuade, refer, which is suicide prevention technique, please listen to those episodes with David, very, very practical advice, and so much wisdom in his episodes, as well as the one with Bob.

Suicide from the Grief Standpoint

When we talk about suicide, which is a very abrupt kind of loss, such as murder is and any other tragic, you know, circumstances. And also to like, let’s say someone passes away of AIDS, you know, there’s like this almost like a stigma, like you’re almost afraid to even say how your loved one passed away. Because in a lot of cultures, a lot of beliefs, it’s unacceptable. And that doesn’t change the fact of how the person died. But it very well can impact the griever. And how they share their grief. If they do it, all right? When we focus on the reason for the loss, it tends to increase the isolation. And grief is emotional, regardless of the cause of death of a loved one. And there are two larger truths to this. Would you have missed your loved one any less had he or she died another way? Absolutely not. So the fact that your loved one passed from suicide doesn’t change the fact that you’re still missing that loved one. And the other truth is what is emotionally unfinished for you, as a result of the death. And there’s this other thing, too, that we talk about in grief  recovery, and address, but society itself? You know, we always look for closure, right? We want some ending to our suffering. And in the case of like murder, we’re always wanting that closure, right? We, especially for instances like murder, where you are looking for justice, where you are looking for, it’s unhelpful, and it’s inaccurate, the word itself closure, because if is there closure to those whose loved ones were murdered, and never received justice? Or if you did receive justice, is there still closure? No, because there’s still unresolved grief. So what can happen though, too, is that people can make a life cause out of the circumstances that took their loved one. So in the case of suicide, for example, and it’s amazing to bring awareness and to create change.

But how many people remain incomplete with the loved one who died despite all of the effort and the proactive change those are that they’re trying to bring about in society. Again, whether it’s, you know, suicide awareness, or it’s, you know, because they lost someone to suicide or murder or you know, wanting to change laws or anything like that, right? It takes a lot of energy to remain distracted from our own unresolved grief. And that can be one way people do that. Another word that seems to come up a lot when people talk about loss due to suicide is guilt. A lot of veterans can feel this way as well. The definition in the dictionary implies it’s an intent to do harm. And if you apply this to the death of a loved one by suicide, I would ask you this question. Did you intend to harm them? And the answer would be absolutely not. This language only adds more suffering and distorts your feelings. Actually, the more accurate thing to consider is what would have been different, better or more in the relationship? What do you wish would have been different, better or more in the relationship? Another word I see a lot on social media and otherwise are here to is about is the word survivor. And it’s another inaccurate word just like guilt, just like closure, and it implies that you outlived someone else. And in grief recovery, we found that the word survivor acts as both a definition and a diagnosis. And it actually keeps people stuck in a painful rut. You don’t survive someone else’s suicide. You may however, survive if someone tries to murder you, but not when they attempt or complete suicide. So survivor defines the griever and it causes him or her to revisit the circumstances of the loss and then becomes an identity.

Pray and Take Action and The Value of Sharing your Story

There are many groups that are actually to born out of the self identification. Grievers are already isolated in our society. So segregating Grievers by the type of loss only adds to the isolation. And yet it can be of some comfort, though too so you may seek out a group of other survivors of suicide, right? Again, that’s an unhelpful definition or an unhelpful term. But if it’s a group of Grievers taking action towards healing the pain rather than sharing the same story, week after week, for months, or even years, that’s where it can be unhelpful. And so again, it comes back to the self identification and segregating yourself from other types of losses. And, you know, in society does that already. And it can be held unhelpful. And so I just wanted to bring to light. That paradox that, yes, I can feel good for a time. It can bring you comfort for a time. But if there is no action, you might find yourself going to that group for months or even years. And that is unhelpful. There’s an African proverb that David mentioned in his episode, and it was pray and move your feet. And it actually came up in another episode recently, that I just recorded, and that one won’t air until February. But it goes back to the idea of, you know, we can pray and pray and pray and pray and pray. But if we’re not moving our feet, what good is it? Right? It can make us feel better for a time. It can give us this moment of reprieve but it’s the action that we take with the prayer.  You know, that really makes the difference. Aside from praying and moving your feet, along the way, there is value in sharing your story. Life is full of teachers and some have feathers and tails and power, claws, as was the case for David. And he’s made the story of his life and lost his message. That’s both humanizing to suicidal ideation, depression, and making it relatable. And not to mention allowing the rest of us in society as observers, to see others suffering with more compassion.

A Battle with Bipolar Disorder

Another hope Bringer to the world doing this is Bob Kulish. In Episode 23, he shared his 35 year battle with undiagnosed bipolar disorder, can you imagine as a parent, only seeing your kids for 72 hours out of 365 days, which is 8760 hours. I can’t. And I also can’t imagine the emotional toll it takes on the kids as well. And especially around bipolar, which is widely misunderstood. Which is why I love the work that Bob brings to the world. It’s impactful because his story is impactful. He’s a high functioning adult that is not only living with bipolar, but he is an example of someone who is thriving. And that is miraculous. In my eyes, considering the house stacked the odds had been against him his whole life, one of the biggest takeaways I took from Bob’s episode was something worth repeating. And it’s the idea that when you are feeling depressed, and you go to your practitioner, you know, medical doctor, and you talk about your depressed feelings, and they want to prescribe an anti-depressant. And that’s good, they want to help you, right? However, many practitioners are not trained, specifically in mental illness. So what happens then, if you are actually suffering from bipolar, and you go to the doctor in a depressive state, because with bipolar, they’re never going to see you when you’re manic. That is one thing that Bob taught me. And on the podcast, you’re not going to go to the doctor, when you’re manic, you are going to go when you’re depressed. And they’ll give you an anti-depressant, most likely, but it’s the screening that often misses, or lack thereof, that misses the fact that it’s actually bipolar disorder.

And so when you are provided an antidepressant, without a mood stabilizer that sends you into a manic state, if you have bipolar. And I had asked Bob, like, how long can this, how long does this? How long do you stay manic then? And he said, as long as you are on the anti-depressant without a mood stabilizer. And I just don’t find it so shocking, that well intentioned and well meaning practitioners are allowed to prescribe these psychotic medications, these drugs without really understanding the screening process are really having screening in place to detect something like bipolar disorder. And I think it comes back too like Bob said in the episode, like, how much loss have you had? And that’s one thing that medical doctors never, I mean, do they ever ask how many losses have you had in your life? How much loss Have you had in your life, and Bob says bipolar disorder is the illness of loss. So I’m on his mission bus in changing how practitioners handle the screening process, or maybe perhaps even changing that the fact that they can even prescribe anti-depressants, you know, it’s like, when you have a heart problem, you go to a cardiologist, you don’t go to a dermatologist, right? So why do we leave mental illness to general practitioners, nurse practitioners, physician’s assistants, right? Why do we put that responsibility those people? And that is a big responsibility on their part, right? So anyway, I just agree with Bob that so much news needs to change there.

And again, if you have not listened to that episode, please, please do. It was an eye opener for me. I learned so much from Bob, I learned so so much from David. And I’m just really proud of both of these interviews and feel so blessed that they were able to share their knowledge and their wisdom, and their insights and their so many golden nuggets with myself and with you. The listener. Mental Illness takes a toll on so many lives. It costs our economy like grief, which is into the billions with a B as in Bob. I remember one of my mentors saying once that grief is a public health crisis. Imagine if society approached grief as that, like obesity or smoking were addressed throughout the years. awareness and education is what it comes down to and I’m here for it. People like David and Bob, and any other griever, who comes on this podcast to share their story is contributing to the bigger vision I hold for society that we stop ignoring it. Like it’s just a part of life, that it’s best ignored, stuffed down and pushed aside, and instead brought out from the shadows of our hearts where we can bring some light to the isolated darkness and talk about grief. Like we talked about the weather. That’s today’s episode.

much love, victoria

P.S. If you find this episode helpful and informative please share it to someone you know who need this information because sharing is caring. For this episode you can find it here. Don’t forget when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life much love. 

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