Elizabeth Catignani | My Shattered Heart: Experiencing Stillbirth & Being a Widow at 27

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

As a mother, carrying and growing another human in the womb for nine months, it is expected that a healthy child will be born. However, for Elizabeth, that is not what happened. Her world was shattered when she realized that she wouldn’t be a new mom overflowing with joy. Rather, she would become a mother with grieving empty arms.

After her firstborn died, Elizabeth and her husband were fortunate to have a healthy daughter. Yet again, her joy was cut short when their daughter was only about 5 months old when her husband was deployed in the Special Forces in the Army.

Her husband owed the military one last deployment and within six weeks of that deployment to Afghanistan,  Elizabeth received a call that no military spouse ever wants to receive.  Her husband was in Germany with injuries sustained while on deployment. She flew to Germany to be with him, which would turn out to be for his final breaths.

All of that loss within an 18-month period would be the catalyst for her to look for and ultimately create a space for herself and other grieving young widows.

Through a lot of ongoing healing and inner work, Elizabeth did find love again and has a family with so much love to give to. But, it wasn’t a quick, bounce-right-back process either, and being a young widow, who was also still grieving a son, would pose its own challenges, too.

There’s truly no way to skirt around grief. You have to feel it.

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Victoria Volk 0:08
This is Victoria of Theunleashedheart.com and you’re listening to grieving voices, a podcast for hurting hearts who desire to be heard. Or anyone who wants to learn how to better support loved ones experiencing loss. As a 30-plus year graver and advanced Grief Recovery methods specialist. I know how badly the conversation around grief needs to change. Through this podcast, I aim to educate gravers and non grievers alike, spread hope and inspire compassion toward those hurting. Lastly, by providing my heart with ears and this platform, Grievers had the opportunity to share their wisdom and stories of loss and resiliency. How about we talk about grief like we talk about the weather? Let’s get started.

Victoria Volk 0:56
Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices today is another fantastic conversation with my guest, Elizabeth Catan, Yanni, and she is a certified creative grief coach, health coach and author of creative grieving a hip chicks path from lost hope. After several unexpected losses at the age of 27. She has passionately dedicated her life to helping others experience healing, joy and purpose after loss. She established her creative wellness, a blog and online platform as a supportive space for women to become empowered on their journey and healing and wellness from grief to hope. She believes in the transformative power of the human journey. In her sacred stories. They’re sharing her own story, she hopes to light the way for others seeking a healthy, heart centered and fulfilling life. Thank you for being here. And I’m on that train with you. Thank you so much for having me today. It’s great to be here. Absolutely. First of all, people often find themselves doing work that they didn’t project themselves doing, like ever, like you never, you can plan your life, five years, 10 years ahead, or you have goals in mind. But life always throws wrenches and surprises and sometimes even gives you things and gifts and experiences that are beyond your expectation or wildest dreams. But sometimes we have experiences that really shape and change us and bring us to a new path. And that’s where you have found yourself. And so let’s start with what your goals in life were before these losses that you bring you to grieving voices. What was your life like before

Elizabeth Catignani 2:40
I had been a teacher prior to my losses. And I was actually, in the process of getting my Master’s in Counseling I had known I’d always wanted to work particularly with women just around mental health issues. And so it’s interesting how I was already a little bit torn on this path of wanting to help others and work with women through life transitions and healing. And so I find it interesting that it’s happened shortly, I was just finishing up my first year of my masters with this program. And all of a sudden, shortly after that is when my losses happen and which completely turned my life upside down. Prior to that, I’d had a pretty typical, go through school, meet my husband get married. And so up until I was about 25. I hadn’t really understood or known real trauma in my life.

Victoria Volk 3:45
What changed for?

Elizabeth Catignani 3:46
When I was having my firstborn, I had gone through a very normal, healthy nine-month pregnancy. And I was 2526. And on my son’s due date, after about a 14-hour labor. He died from a court accident and that was absolutely life-shattering. And it was just the biggest shock upheaval in my life. And my husband and I really had to find a way together to grieve that loss. And we were working through that process a little bit. I had started going to support groups and counseling. And he had his own way of breathing, which he was in the military. He had a little different take on feelings and talking about them a lot. And so I found my own outlets to cope with my grief. And thankfully we were fortunate to have a healthy daughter after we lost her son. However, when she was only about five months old, he was deployed. He was in the Special Forces in the army and he owed the military one last deployment andonly about six weeks in, he was serving in Afghanistan, I got a call that he had been injured. And shortly after that I was flown over to Germany. It was something he couldn’t recover from. He had been killed on a mission. And I was there with him for his last moments, but I had to leave our baby girl back in the States with my family. And I couldn’t believe yet again. I was just like, What are the odds? What is wrong with me? Why me within an 18 month period, losing both a son and then my husband who had been my rock, through grieving our son, we had that shared grief, and then to lose that person who could understand that loss better than anyone. I was like how to like read both of these together, it was impossible. That was about I was 27. So that’s almost about 13 years ago now. And it’s so sensitive, I’ve just been on this crazy, difficult, beautiful, intense, amazing journey that only grief can show you really. And shortly after his death, I moved to Charlotte, North Carolina, and I decided that I wanted to really work with other women who were grieving, and meet other women who are grieving because I felt so alone, different than everyone else around me. And I didn’t know how to move forward, I did, the first thing I could was to think I need to connect with other people who can understand I sought out some support groups had a hard time finding one that I really connected with. So I actually started my own on meetup.com, when I think it was starting to become popular around then. And I was called Soul widows, particularly for young widows, because a lot of groups out there were not really geared towards younger people. So I began meeting amazing women, I just was like, wow, there are other young women out there like me that have actually lost their spouse or their partner. And I formed new friendships and relationships that way. And it was really a stepping stone to starting to live again a little bit and pick myself up off the ground, just trying to get through that first year, while also trying to raise our daughter on my own. Thankfully, I had family to help. But it was just very daunting, very overwhelming. And it’s been teaching me a lot throughout my life. Those experiences.

Victoria Volk 7:36
Have you fell in love again?

Elizabeth Catignani 7:38
I have incredible love. Yes, I’ve been happily married for about six and a half years now we’re married, we have a beautiful five year old daughter as well, my oldest is now 13. I never would have imagined over a decade ago having the life I do now having been able to find love and create the family that I always dreamed about. So at one point, it seemed literally like it would never be possible. Or I could never risk getting hurt again, or opening my heart again. So I’m definitely in a place that I am extremely grateful for. But it was a lot of hard work to get here. It was a lot of facing the pain and the heartache and the realities and just digging deep because there’s truly no way to

Elizabeth Catignani 8:27
Skirt around grief, you have to feel it, you have to live it. And it’s something that I know like with our society, particularly, it’s not a comfortable thing. And it’s not easy for people to know what to say or how to support your how to talk about it with other people. And so I think it’s so important in those early years to really find those that you can trust, find a community find someone that you can really just pour your heart out to. And knowing that they’ll trust it, even treat it with honor, respect, and because life is certainly not all fun and joy. And as much as we love that. So I think it’s good to have these conversations, because I feel like so many people deserve them and deserve to know that they’re not alone. And that there is support and that there are other people that have suffered and found their way out. We need those stories, because otherwise, it feels very hopeless. So I’ve tried to through the work that I’ve done share like this is this was my experience. This was my hardship. And there is another side that you keep going and at one point shortly after I started my support group I had co founded it was called the respite. It was a Center for Grief and hope, a local nonprofit with a couple of other women. And that was also just such a profound experience for me. And we ran that for about four years. And we helped tons of women that came through our doors. We provided counseling services and support groups and it was just such an uplifting experience to feel like I could do

Elizabeth Catignani 10:00
Take my story and turn it into something beautiful by giving to others like being of service was such a huge piece to just finding purpose again, and feeling value and feeling like worthy just even if it was helping one or two people, here and there, it just filled up my heart and I felt, okay, I can still create some beauty and some life and reconnect with myself. Because it takes a while to recover parts of yourself after a loss, you might feel like you’ve lost yourself completely sometimes. And so being able to just reach out and connect with other people and help helped me with my kind of get some identity back as well.

Victoria Volk 10:43
What do you think you discovered about yourself? Through those years of healing that you didn’t maybe believe about yourself before.

Elizabeth Catignani 10:54
I think I certainly realize that how capable I was of just allowing vulnerability, and letting that be my strength. And I would always kind of before my losses really looked to others to help me through certain things. And I was the youngest child in my family. So I always felt had other people to let that die in the way and show me the way. And as I went through this process and learned more about myself, I realized I have a lot more strength and wisdom than I think I gave myself credit for just listening to my heart and trusting that I would get the support I need. If I reached out for it, I became a little more assertive a little more less afraid in certain ways, realizing how short life is and how precious every moment that we have it goes so quickly, it just flies by so fast. And I think I wouldn’t have had the guts before to go after certain things. I don’t think I would have had the guts to go after a nonprofit or to meet to start a group for women. I hadn’t really seen myself in a leadership role before. And so suddenly, I just had this fire in me of I think it was just all the built up feelings and emotions. What’s the grief, you have all of it, it’s no particular order, you have the anger and the sadness. And it’s just such a roller coaster. And I think I just had so much bottled up, I just needed to do something creative with it. And so I really just follow that creative energy. And I was like I need to build, I need to do something with this. Otherwise, I’m just gonna implode, being able to channel that and just something that could hopefully empower other people on their path. That just became such a light for me. And it just filled me with a lot of hope. And it brought me a lot of peace and joy, especially through those earlier years. And it brings me a lot of deep peace today to still be able to help in any way I can.

Victoria Volk 12:55
What do you think is different from you or in other Grievers that you’ve met along the way? Because I think to myself, like how can there be some people, some Grievers who experience really incredible, deeply painful losses, and they end up in this really dark hole for decades. And then you have this other person who seems to from the outside, like bounce back and not bounce back? Because I hate that and he referring it to that way. But like you said, there’s like a shift. There’s like the light switch goes on in your brain, and you just choose differently for yourself. And so what do you think was it for you, that shifted in your mindset? Because really, it is a mindset to go from probably not being able to get out of bed most days to getting out of bed?

Elizabeth Catignani 13:54
Yeah, I did. I will say I did spend at least the first six weeks after my husband died in that it was painful to wake up. I just wanted to be sleeping all the time to escape the feelings. And it was a very gradual process. So it’s not like I just bounced up in a few months. It was like, Oh, I’m gonna go do all this stuff. And I’ve got all this energy. It was absolutely nothing like that. It started out slow. I remember I found a meeting group online for young widows. It was like a safe within my own little space. And I was able to still connect with others online and see what their experiences were their feelings. And that was my way of inching back into the world a little bit. And I took my daughter I wouldn’t be like seven months old. I would take her out on a walk at least a few times a week. That was my getting out into the world and I would be relieved if I didn’t run into a single person. As I went on these walks, and I just wanted to be in nature. I wanted to be around just the trees and the animals. Doesn’t feel like I could just exist and not have to worry about any sort of judgment, or what anyone else might think of me, I didn’t want to even see other families being happy, I felt like I really needed to protect myself. And so it was a very gradual process. I’ve slowly started after that doing one on one therapy. And I probably went through another six months of that before I felt any sort of energy toward even creating something myself with the support group. But I really think it’s such an individual process. And I think that for me, at least, the personal the one on one therapy, I think, was really what helped me the most initially, to not just want to close off from the world and shut myself away, and retreat into the darkness, because I did have someone challenging me to stay living to stay in the life helping me feel and remind me that I have purpose, and that I’m still a whole person, despite my losses. And I needed to have that being a constant reminder. Because if you don’t have someone rooting for you, or allowing you to process, I think it’s a lot harder to get out of that state of just complete defeat. And just feeling like allowing the last almost does fully encompass you and to not see the other side to get into that darkness. I think finding that support early. I remember my sister found me and my therapist because I wasn’t looking, I was in bed. And she found her for me, she said, I think you should go try to see this woman and see what happens. And I was like, Okay, you can drive me because I was so overwhelmed. I couldn’t even drive myself, like says at the beginning. So I literally had my sister take me to my counseling appointments to start with. So having that push was very helpful, necessary early on. And eventually, that evolved into the support groups and meeting other people that I’ve met women in the support groups I ran, there were some widows that would come in, and they would say my husband died five years ago. And I’m just now ready to talk about it. I’m just now ready to share my story. And they hadn’t felt that they had a safe space to do that before that. So it’s really a such an individual process. I know they all say the first year is foggy. And then second year is this, but it’s very personal. It depends on a lot of circumstances and what kind of support you have around you. And I was so grateful that the women had showed up that had waited a long time because they found a lot of healing. After just having all this stuff bottled up for so long. There’s no right or wrong way to grieve. There’s no handbook, that can say this is where you should be on this date, or this is how you should feel at this point. And I think it’s just so important to give ourselves grace, for that, at some point, reach out for help, especially if you do feel like you’re getting into too much into the darkness. There are amazing resources out there.

Victoria Volk 18:04
To piggyback on what you said, because I took me over 30 years. So that’s my personal experience, but anybody that I’ve ever worked with, man, I wish I would have done this sooner. Because if you really think about it’s never too late, and it’s never too soon to like work through your grief. And now although I completely 100% agree there is no timeline, and time just passes. It’s what you do in that time. What I think about is, the opportunities, the life that you miss, when you spend your days in fear of what going to that place will be like, and I think that’s what keeps people stuck is the fear of what that’s going to feel like, what’s gonna happen after that. Okay, I work through all this stuff. And then what do I think that’s really what keeps people stuck in their grief?

Elizabeth Catignani 18:42
I totally agree with that. I absolutely agree with that. And I still certainly struggle with anxiety to this day, I always have fears that something will happen to my loved ones to my children, it’s very easy to go to those places in my mind. And so it’s really been a lot of personal work with a lot of almost when I find myself going, they’re going to tools that I’ve learned whether it’s an affirmation or breathing, or maybe I have to make a phone call, I still have a life coach to this day that I absolutely adore. And I speak to her once a week. And just getting back to a place that feels safe and grounded. My affirmation for this year was I am safe, and especially with this pandemic we’ve had going on that, of course adds another layer to it and there’s been so much loss over the past few years there are so much suffering right now. And it’s easy to get caught up in that energy and to feel overwhelmed. And on top of that, so many of us have been isolated. I’ve been basically a stay at home mom, the last couple years during this whole thing with my kids and not seeing many people, there was a time, I wasn’t seeing much family. And that can really just heighten that anxiety and that fear. And so being a space around me that I feel comfortable in having books that I can turn to, that are soothing, having podcasts that I can listen to, to support me getting out and taking a long walk, or getting some form of movement and moving the body. There’s just so many incredible ways we can channel that fear and channel that anxiety so that it doesn’t overwhelm and take over. So that’s something that I have certainly spent years working through after my losses, and it still pops up very frequently. And I’m always looking at new ways to manage it. And there’s nothing wrong with that you all have to find stay creative with our resources, and maybe something will work for a little while. And then you’ll find Okay, doesn’t work for me anymore. So I need to try something else. And so just being open to trying different ways, because yeah, especially after having the worst happen, it’s very easy to just assume like, that’s always going to be the situation to go there. So it’s a lot of self care, a lot of checking in pretty much daily with yourself and saying, What do I need right now? What can I do right now for myself?

Victoria Volk 21:34
I think with grief, it’s really about getting back to the basics. Just get that in people. When I mentioned meditation, sometimes it’s some guy. There’s another one that says meditation.

Victoria Volk 21:46
But just the basic back when, before the internet before, all the stuff that we have in our lives, people would garden, and they would garden for hours, or they would be out in the fields or they would be laboring, and then they would come they worked hard. And then they rested. And we just have lost the basics of balance in our lives. And I’ve really had to learn that myself. But yeah, just what does balance look like for me today? Looking at your calendar and looking at those special days coming up? Or the anniversaries? And how can I balance what I know is coming emotionally? How can I balance that with self care,

Elizabeth Catignani 21:52
I think doesn’t have to be a big complicated situation. I think especially people that are grieving, I feel like we put so much pressure on ourselves to do things perfectly and like to honor an anniversary perfectly, or it can be very simple. It can be so simple. Like every year for me anyway, when you mentioned anniversaries, I was thinking about how every year is so very different in the way that I experience it and the feelings that come up. And there are some years where I don’t feel like I need to make a big announcement about it. I don’t need to go on social media and say, this big monologue about my memories or my feelings. And there’s some times when I just really want to, to honor it personally and not feel like I have to go blasting it out there. And I feel like some of the women I’ve met, they feel like they have to honor them a certain way. Or some people love that some people want to do the balloon release, or they go to the memorial site, or they write poetry and their honor, it’s whatever serves you, it’s whatever you need to help you through that day. And you can honor your loved one in a way that feels right for you. And I used to feel so much pressure and the anticipation would just overwhelm me. And I realized, why am I doing this, I don’t need to prove anything to anyone, I don’t need to put on the show for anybody. And so this past year, some of the anniversaries I passed through, they were just very private for me. And that just felt energetically the best for me, I would go on a walk or I’d just talk to them and say a few words and feel their energy. And that was what felt right at that time. So I do think that we can easily overcomplicate grief and what we think we need to do, or oh, this meditation is supposed to that so I have to go do that meditation or it just doesn’t feel right or you’re feeling like you’re forcing it, then it’s probably not what you need, then maybe you just need a relaxing bath or you need a nap. Because you’re exhausted grieving is exhausting. So I think we all need to give ourselves a little grace with, like you said, just going back to some basics. You have a green thumb spending some time in your yard and it doesn’t have to be this fancy thing

Victoria Volk 24:47
For some people gardening like flowers, or having a flower garden nurturing something to full bloom. That can be very meditative. It can be a meditative experience for someone to So meditation is now don’t just sit up. It doesn’t have to be so structured. Like, there’s so many different ways to do it. And there’s no right or wrong way either. And yeah, if you have trouble turning off the monkey brain, it’s a practice. It’s not going to happen the first time and then you think you’re doing it wrong. And then you’re judging yourself Self shaming yourself, and then you don’t do it. Again. It’s a practice, just like everything is a practice, self care is a practice committing to it as a practice.

Elizabeth Catignani 25:27
Yes, I love what you’re saying, though, one of my favorite sayings. It’s a grief course that I took, one of the instructors said, it’s a practice, not a perfect. And always repeat that to myself, when I feel like I’m not doing something correctly, or I’m not treating this, I’m just like, okay, just chill. It’s a practice, not, nothing’s perfect.

Victoria Volk 25:48
I think, here’s a thought that came to me it was listening to you is that it sounds like to me that you had some really clear boundaries for yourself. And what came to my mind as well as being a young widow, I would imagine that pressure that you felt, whether externally or internally, that you felt being a young widow, I can imagine that you would have to feel like you have to have this extravagant show being young, it was a young loss and honoring that, and he’s was the father of your child. And if somehow, like just that self judgment that we feel whether it’s true or not, you still might feel that and I just wanted to highlight the fact that you had very clear boundaries. And so what would you suggest to those who may be really struggling with that? And how to maybe implement those boundaries with others? Because that can be really tricky.

Elizabeth Catignani 26:43
Yeah. In the beginning, it definitely took me a while to learn how to establish those boundaries, because especially with being that he had been in the military, and the military is just one big community. And there was an online Facebook page set up in his honor. And just a lot of people wanted to grieve together, honor him together. And while that was beautiful, it could also be very overwhelming for me, because I felt like I had a lot of eyes on me, how is she handling this? What is she doing next? Like? How do we continue to honor and it was just very much on some levels too much for me, because I was just like, I really need time to process this on my own. Instead of handling and hearing about everyone else’s grief. On top of just trying to deal with my own Did you feel like you were expected to show up for that stuff? Yeah, there were ceremonies to attend. And every year, there’s ceremonies that are offered for us to attend. And in the very early stages, I showed up to these and I was just going to complete days, I was just out of body experience, going to some memorial services. And it was just almost like attending funeral after funeral in my mind. And I was just like, I can’t keep reliving this over and over again, it was just almost debilitating to a degree that at some point decided I needed to take a little bit of a step back and not push myself that I have to show up at all these events. And while I’m grateful that they are happening, and that he continues to be remembered and honored, I also have to remember to respect where I’m at too. And know that because I can tell at this point, like in my grief, how I’m going to handle something. And so sometimes needing to put up boundaries where you’re like, Okay, I appreciate the invite, I need time for my own reflection right now and my own self care. So not always feeling like you have to be present at everything, which of course that comes with a dose of guilt easily. But it also just comes down to your own sanity, and just having to give yourself grace to grieve in the way you need to because no one else can fully understand your position and what you’re going through. And what’s your feeling when my late husband died, we had a private funeral service here locally for him. And it was another separate service in his home state. And I was so weak because I had traveled to Germany to be with him. And I had just gotten back. And I still had my six month old daughter waiting for me to take care of her and I was sick and weak. And I remember having to make that decision that I cannot travel to the other state to do both services. So I asked them to have one for me here so that I could have a proper memorial for him here. And because I just was in no state to keep going and just having to make those decisions was very hard. I worried about what people would think very much and down the road. There were times when I had to speak up and tell people be more vocal about what my boundaries were, which was not comfortable. I like to be a mediator. I like to keep people and I have a history of people pleasing. And so having to step out of that people pleasing role and and say I’m not comfortable with this or that or they’re would

Elizabeth Catignani 30:00
Even some friends that I lost along the way, because they didn’t really know how to be there, and they felt awkward and uncomfortable. And somehow those relationships just fizzled out. And normally, I wouldn’t have probably let that happen. But I just knew I’m like, I just need the right people around me right now. And so that might mean losing some people. So that was an interesting experience to just having to accept that not everyone’s going to be able to stand by you. But those that can. They’re incredible. And I have amazing friendships that I made. After those losses. There’s the people that can stand with you and that are gold.

Victoria Volk 30:37
Yeah, they say you’re a son of the five people, you surround yourself with happening with grief, it’s especially important to really refine your circle around, you don’t feel better. After you leave the presence of those people. Maybe they’re not right for you at this time. Maybe they will be later and people fade in and fade out. And that’s okay. One aspect too, I hadn’t really given much thought to until our conversation. I’m a veteran too. But I wouldn’t have imagined I never gave much thought to the fact that if you lose a spouse in the military, you have your family, your spouse’s family, but yeah, then you do have this extended military family and it is a Brotherhood or sisterhood. And yeah, I just never really thought much about that. And how that could influence maybe be more added stress of what you just described. Thank you for your sacrifices as a spouse, to someone in the military. I know the family sacrifices, too. But there’s so much goodness in what you just shared. You’ve shared the challenges, you’ve shared a lot of the things that helped you in the boundaries and things that helped you shift your perspective gave a lot of tips, was there any advice that you personally received from someone that I think you even said that to there was that quote, you mentioned practice, not a perfect.

Elizabeth Catignani 31:26
Yeah. And then also early on, I was really fortunate to meet this. She was my first friend that was also widow, she had lost her husband, probably, I think it was just a few months before mine had died. So we were, we were around the same time period as far as that, but she just really gave me permission to be where I was, with what I was feeling, she reminded me to, if I just needed someone there with me, and they didn’t have to say anything, if I just needed a presence that she would do that for me, I can remember her showing up to my door one day with a big chocolate milkshake. And no plans, I am just here, just letting you know. And she would sit with me and just if I needed to talk, she would just let me talk. And it was just such a nice companionship to have because it was just reminding me that where I was okay. And to have just that feeling of support, even if that person didn’t have to say anything being there. Because you know, after that first influx of people calling or cards or just that initial reaction to the loss, it can feel like all of a sudden people just have moved on with their lives and forgotten. And so just having someone there for after that period of time was just incredibly therapeutic to know that even though maybe the rest of everyone else is moving forward, I’m still dealing with this. And it’s okay. And I’m allowed to be in that space still. And so just giving ourselves permission to do our journey, it’s going to be messy. It’s going to be interesting, it’s going to be up and down. But it’s each our own journey, and it should be honored.

Victoria Volk 33:42
And we all agree that 100% There’s no half. And I’m curious, what was the difference or similarities too between the grief that you felt after the loss of your son versus the loss of your husband?

Elizabeth Catignani 33:56
I don’t think there was a huge difference other than it just felt like an additional emptiness. Because when that person leaves that just the whole world feels empty.

Elizabeth Catignani 34:05
And I can just recall that sense of just complete loneliness and emptiness because having had that shared grief with my spouse, and then suddenly not even having him to talk to about the death of our son anymore to have that one person that could really connect with you on that intimate level of shared grief. That was just like another just complete stab to the heart. I don’t think there was a lot different other than just feeling that additional, all those extra losses because the main loss, you just lose so much else. There’s just so many layers of loss that goes along with it that you wouldn’t have even considered that yeah, just that emptiness. Like because I remember my arms just feeling empty, empty after my son died empty after Brian died and I just felt very lost and in both situations, and one is not worse than the other. They’re both awful in their own way.

Elizabeth Catignani 35:00
And so it was just okay, starting over again. Like how many chapters? How many books am I going to have, I never would have imagined that I would have had so many by the sage, but it’s just, we can’t control. We can only control how we react and how we heal and how we respond. And just that was one of the huge wake up calls for me it was how little control I had over life in general, just wow, things just happen. It doesn’t matter. If you’re good or a bad person, they just happen and you just can’t drive the ship. But you can choose how you manage the aftermath.

Victoria Volk 35:31
Comes back to how we first started this podcast and how we can plan our lives and rarely do our lives turn out how we plan on grief is cumulative. And it’s cumulatively negative. It’s what we say in Grief Recovery. And that’s why your losses stack up like luggage in your body or box, if you have a backpack or rocks, we carry that stuff forward with us those losses, all the losses, you need to like move that out somehow. And you said implode, that’s what we say in Grief Recovery, too. It’s either you implode or you explode. Let’s say I gave you a mic and you just have the floor of the world. What would you like to scream to the world and wish people knew?

Elizabeth Catignani 36:20
Oh, there’s so much I could say, I guess one of the things that first comes to mind is just life is just so short. And if we spend more time in just the space of love and gratitude, and you never know what tomorrow is gonna bring. You never know what’s around the corner. And just really holding on to the small moments, that’s really where I find a lot of my joy these days is just those little moments, whether it’s my daughter giving me a hug, or saying I love you, or it’s not about what you do, or who your title or whatever projects you’re working on life is now. And and it’s just who you are that really matters and what energy you give to the world that truly matters. Because we’re all in this I feel like we get so caught up and do with have to do things a certain way.

Elizabeth Catignani 37:14
Or we’re always comparing, or we get so wrapped up in social media and comparisons and other people’s lives, how they compare it, it’s just such a waste of time, it’s just being in the now such a challenge these days. But I think it’s just so important to find those moments throughout the day, to ground yourself to remember where you are and who you are, and creating those connections with the people you love the most. And that mean the most to you just getting into the heart of life, I feel just being aware of those moments, because it’s just when I look back, I think the most random, small moments are what I hold the good hold on to like just memories, I never would have thought would be a big deal. But nothing grandiose is just sort of just remembering to have some gratitude for just getting to wake up each day. And even if things don’t go great, having gratitude for the small moments of things that are going well and your health, just those things just are something that I really tried to focus on so much in my life now are just those small moments. And like, oh, the sun coming in through the window right now is beautiful. And I can feel the warmth and just having a moment with that. Because that’s like happening right there.

Victoria Volk 38:28
I think to what you ended up doing for yourself, was you connected to yourself first, which then enabled you to fully connect with others, and maybe even to receive love again, because I recognize that there was a timeframe in there after your husband passed and before you have remarried. Did you make that conscious choice, an intention to give yourself the time and space before you decided to be open to receiving love in that way again,

Elizabeth Catignani 39:06
I did definitely focus on trying to figure that out. He did date a bit afterwards, of course, I went through several relationships that were not the healthiest feeling situations. And I realized afterwards that I had needed more time for myself to heal and reconnect because I had been reaching for something outside of myself to fill that void. And I always have told other widows there’s no timeline of like when you can start dating again or looking for searching and you need human connection you want to feel in partnership. There’s nothing wrong with that. But it’s also harder to find a healthy version of that if you are not healthy within yourself. And so I did experience a lot of let downs and find myself in situations where I was just because I was just trying to rush I think and so it took some some lessons they’re for me to realize, okay, I need to step back and reflect on where I’m at in my grief and my healing, and give myself this a little more space before, I’m able to invite that in. Because I wasn’t giving out the right energy, I wasn’t receiving the energy I needed and deserved, that’s when the right guy came along, for me, the right partner. And that’s also another area where I think we don’t need to not be too hard on ourselves, because you’re trying to grieve and trying to find a new relationship and trying to navigate relationships are complicated in general. So add on the loss of your spouse before that, and it’s just like, very overwhelmed parenting and finding the right person that’s going to be a good co parent with you match that style. There’s so many layers and levels. So it can be very complicated. And it is about really having to connect with yourself first, and remember who find yourself and who you are. Because that’s what’s going to attract the right person to you. And so that’s something it took me a while to figure out. So that was like a whole other several chapters of my life, figuring that out with a man Oh, my gosh, I have to go back into this dating world. Again, nobody wants to have to do I just remember dreading it. But yeah, after I gave myself a little more space and paid attention to what I needed, I was able to find a healthy relationship again.

Victoria Volk 41:21
So you intuitively knew because you were dreading it, right? And we don’t listen to those calls in our bodies, like your voice in your head was saying, no, not No, not yet. You’re dreading it, you’re not ready. And so we just try to push that voice down that intuition? And how do you get in touch with your intuition? Is you connect to yourself? Yeah. And so definitely the word that comes up for me when I heard you say, where I heard you talking about that as patients. It’s just Yeah, patience with yourself. Yeah, the process.

Elizabeth Catignani 41:54
Yes. And patience, I’ve always had a struggle with patience.

Victoria Volk 41:58
But just do many of us do, and especially in grief, and especially with losses so close to each other. And really, the loss of a child. I just had a conversation yesterday with a woman I was crying the whole time, I can’t even imagine I have three kids I cannot imagine, and nobody else to and that’s why it can be so uncomfortable for so many people to put themselves in those shoes.

Elizabeth Catignani 42:24
Yeah,

Victoria Volk 42:25
And I think that’s why so many relationships, or friendships do fall away, because it’s like a mirror to them.

Elizabeth Catignani 42:30
Yeah, nobody wants to have those thoughts or to know that can be a reality, and I can’t really blame them. So yeah, being able to find a partner that could be strong within himself to know my story and to accept because I because afterwards, I was like posh, who’s gonna want me with all my baggage and this story that I have, and all this heartache. And that’s a lot. I was like, as a single mom, it’s a lot for somebody to take on and was like, who’s gonna want this. And I had to learn that those things were not my faults. And it’s just my story. There were things that happened to me, it didn’t mean that was who I was, or that I was a terrible mess or anything, it was just honoring that this had been my journey, and that I was doing the best that I could, and should just be an honor of that. And it’s possible. There’s people out there, the man I’m married to, he’s got a huge heart, and just fully comfortable within himself and can completely honor this was my story, I can talk about my husband and not feel awkward about it. If it comes up, I think it’s important to be in a situation where you feel like your story can live freely and be honored. And to not have to feel like you have to hide it or to tuck it away or feel ashamed. If it’s something that just happened to you. It’s life, we all do the best we can create the best out of our situations that we can. And so I think that’s important to realize, too, is that you’re still worthy, you’re worthy of love, you’re worthy of joy and happiness. No matter what kind of loss you’ve gone through. You still deserve that.

Victoria Volk 44:11
I want to touch on something because I think it’s very important. Your daughter had a loss to despite not knowing him only through what you share with her and through pictures and words and videos and stories and things. What would you like to share about that experience, like parenting a child through that? It’s one thing for a child to know who they’re missing, but then to not know, really different type of grief experience.

Elizabeth Catignani 44:30
It definitely is. And I’ve just had to figure that out as we’ve gone along the way. I’ve always like when she was very little I had a picture of him and her in her room and always open to talking about it or if something comes up that reminded me of something he might have said or done and I’ll say it to her I’ll say oh, your daddy Brian would have thought this or done that, or I would tell her stories of when she was a baby and just little moments of him with her that I can recall. And so it just comes up naturally in conversation on different days. And so I do what I can to keep him alive for her his presence there. And I have a beautiful scrapbook like a memory book that I made to have, like I have from his childhood, all the way up till when he died. And there’s like newspaper clippings and photos. And so it’s something that as she grows older, I think she’ll process the loss in different ways as she ages and reaches different stages of her life. Because I know it’s not as maybe real to her right now, as she’s like this mysterious dream. I feel like in a way, so I’ve just as best I can just made it comfortable for her to bring up whatever, there were some beautiful like pictures and objects made in his honor, like this beautiful carved wooden flag that she could put in her room, or she can grow up and take with her to her own home one day, or like a painting that he bought that I have. And then she’s also read my book that I wrote. So she really does know a lot of the story. And so that’s just always been important to me is that it’s a safe thing to talk about that it doesn’t have to be ever uncomfortable. And that’s just been my approach. And then she does have an older half sister that she’s five years older, she does remember him very well. And so they’ve had a good relationship. And I think she gets a lot of nice stories through her older sister too, which is great. But yeah, I think it’s really about just keeping the subject open, keeping his memory alive. And she asks about him now. And then if she has questions, or it’s evolved throughout the years, but I’ll mentioned today’s anniversary, do you want to talk about anything or you want to honor in some way? But yeah, it’s not the same as if she had known her. We don’t really we can’t have those conversations about oh, remember when this was done, seeing how she grows with it, and evolves with it over the years, and I just tried to keep the conversation open.

Victoria Volk 47:09
She also lost a brother too.

Elizabeth Catignani 47:12
She did yeah. And I do mention him a lot as well. And that’s another thing that I think over time, it’ll become a part of her in a certain way. And she might honor it in her own way as she gets older as well. So yeah, I think it’s important to just to be real about it just as painful and uncomfortable. And sad as it is, this is what happened. This is part of your story, too. And I think it’ll help her figure out understand herself maybe as she gets older.

Victoria Volk 47:41
The experience of a child griever versus first experiencing grief in adulthood, it is very different. I’m a child Griever. So you grow up with that knowledge like it. And it helps you I can look back now, but it helps you to mature really, in ways that you didn’t ask for. But it’s a very different type of feeling of grief. I think it’s an intimate part of who you are. Essentially, what is your son’s name?

Elizabeth Catignani 48:13
His name was Turkey Brian is a nickname for an Australian teammate that Brian had overseas.

Victoria Volk 48:21
We like you name so I actually think that’s really cute. Well, yeah.

Victoria Volk 48:27
I didn’t know how to ask that. I’m gonna bring this up on the podcast, because maybe other people are wondering that too. But I wanted to ask, what was his name? But he’s still in your heart. Right? What is his name? And so that’s why I asked it in that way. So for anyone listening.

Elizabeth Catignani 48:40
I love that. Yes, he’s always they’re always skills president, he’ll always be your Tookie will always be my son. And it’s something that he made me a mom, you as my firstborn. And wherever he is, because it is something that whenever you get asked, Oh, how many kids do you have? Or it depends on the situation. But most of the time, I’ll just acknowledge, oh, I’ve got two daughters. But there’s that party that’s just actually have three kids. I’ve got a son too. And it’s not always the most I’m like, Oh, do I really want to go there and the depending on who I’m talking to do I want to bring this up? Because it’s instantly Oh, you know, like a little bit shocking to whoever you’re saying it to. And so that is a sadness that I carry people see me with my two children, but I really have three. And that will always stick in my heart because yeah, I want him to be acknowledged. And yeah, it’s like if you’re in conversation with somebody out of nowhere, you don’t really know them. It’s something that I’m not always just gonna drop it. Oh, I have a son in heaven or an afterlife and got these two, but I know that’s a pain I’m sure a lot of parents carry that have lost a child.

Victoria Volk 49:57
could say I have two living daughters, and I have one angel son. And don’t feel the need to say anything.

Elizabeth Catignani 50:09
I like that.

Victoria Volk 50:10
Yeah, then you let them off the hook, but yet you’re honoring.

Elizabeth Catignani 50:13
Yes. That’s a good I like that. I like. That sounds very nice. I’ve said that.

Victoria Volk 50:23
Yeah. Good. Is there anything else that you would like to share?

Elizabeth Catignani 50:26
I think so like this has been a really lovely conversation. And I hope that it’s been helpful to those ever listening. But yeah, it’s been an honor to be here with you.

Victoria Volk 50:39
Thank you, it’s been my honor to hear your story. So thank you for being my guest. Where can people find you if they would like to connect.

Elizabeth Catignani 50:47
I have a website. It’s called hercreativewellness.com. And you can also find me on Instagram, at the same handle, and also my book, Freedom breathing, you can find that on my website. And also, it’s available on Amazon. And the audiobook version is going to be available, I believe, near the end of the month. So I’m excited about that.

Victoria Volk 51:15
We didn’t talk about this. But if you can briefly describe what is the difference between a certified creative grief coach and say, someone like me, I wouldn’t say I’m a coach, either. I don’t know what I am grief guy, I don’t know. But what is the distinction you could share.

Elizabeth Catignani 51:32
So what we really focus on is with the creative side of expressing your grief different. And it’s interesting, because I know some people may feel like they’re not creative at all, I have a creative bone in their body. But I truly believe that anybody has creativity within them. And it doesn’t mean you’re an artist, or you have to be focused in any medium or anything, but just finding different ways to process your grief. And it can be through different techniques like whether it’s through a diagram or a drawing or colors, or doing something outside processing through movement, it’s really about trying different tools and seeing what fits for you. There’s just so many ways we can channel our grief. And I’m always looking for new, unique ways that resonate with me. And that might help someone else because it really is a mind body, spiritual experience on so many levels. And so really addressing all those different areas of our being as a whole through this integrative process, I think it’s very important because we really do hold, we can carry it a lot in our bodies, we can feel it or aches and pains, one of the women that used to work at the respite center, she was a grief massage therapist, so she specialized in helping people that had gone through loss. And she had a very specific technique for giving them a massage that was very in tune with certain anxieties they might have, or fear of touch that they might have, or setting the mood a certain way with music or lighting and things like that just approaching it differently. It’s things like that, that I find amazing, and that they’re even available. Cuz there are so many different ways to express yourself through your healing. And like for me, like this past year, I really got into photography. And I took a photography course online, and I just found this amazing piece and capturing flowers and different seasons and just working with color. And it just being able to capture memories in that way. So there’s just so many unique outlets that we might not typically think about when we can process what we’ve been through and also to find joy in the moment. And so yes, I really to emphasize that we’re all creative in some way. And that using our creativity, I think it’s a really important way that we can help ourselves on our healing path.

Victoria Volk 53:58
And it’s a muscle that you have to flex have to lose it in order to like let it come out.

Elizabeth Catignani 54:05
Definitely, yeah,

Victoria Volk 54:07
Actually, there was a traveling project that was going to the different military outpatient clinics. And I had seen it when I had a doctor’s appointment at the VA one time. And what it was veterans would have, like do like a paper mache of their face, like an imprint, and they would paint the face in or as a reflection of what they were feeling. Oh, that’s the face that they presented to others. What does that look like? What am I? How am I showing up with this pain on my face? I just got goosebumps again thinking about it because especially with military service, it’s loss and there’s so much loss. I just thought it was brilliant idea for a project.

Elizabeth Catignani 54:53
Wow, that’s really that’s incredible.

Victoria Volk 54:55
Yeah, I could see that with like trauma victims even just any grief, right? Just any kind of grief I’ll try and find the link. I don’t know what it was a couple of years ago, but it might inspire the work that you’re doing with people. So find the link for you. And if I do find it, I will put it in the show notes too. Because if it Yeah, out there, I think it’d be really see how other people are channeling their creativity in their grief.

Elizabeth Catignani 55:24
Really, I love that.

Victoria Volk 55:26
Anything else you’d like to share?

Elizabeth Catignani 55:27
I don’t think so. I think I tried to share a lot what was on my heart and yeah, it’s been an amazing conversation.

Victoria Volk 55:35
I agree. Thank you so much. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love. From my heart to yours. Thank you for listening. If you liked this episode, please share it because sharing is caring. And until next time, give and share compassion by being a hurt with yours. And if you’re hurting know that what you’re feeling is normal and natural. Much love my friend.

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