Michelle Marsh | Flipping the Script on Loss During Covid
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
In the grief recovery programs, one way we describe grief is that it is the loss of hopes, dreams, and expectations. This description of grief, in this way, has not been better understood by society as a whole more than it has since 2020 with the onset of the Covid-19 pandemic.
As society begins to emerge from the darkness Covid brought to so many lives, we start to see ourselves and others in a new light. We have started to see the impact of the past two years on the psyche of millions, its global economic impact, and deeply feel the ripples in our individual lives.
In this week’s episode, my guest, Michelle Marsh of Western Australia and @aromanosis, shares the ripples Covid-19 created in her life. Burying a loved one is never easy. Burying a loved one during a pandemic, well, it can be downright traumatic, elevating the emotions of everyone involved and leaving a lasting imprint.
Additionally, and not often talked about, are the secondary losses during Covid-19 due to government mandates, which Michelle also experienced in regard to hopes and dreams she had before the pandemic.
Michelle shares a few lessons she’s learned from her Covid-19 experience. And, how she’s managed to get to the other side of the darkness that was Covid-19 (and still is creating ripples in some ways).
For a long time, I have shared the expression “Covid Ruins Everything.” Well, one thing I believe it hasn’t ruined and perhaps has maybe strengthened, is the human spirit in the lives of millions.
May we all carry the lessons we’ve individually learned from Covid-19 into our future selves and be better for it.
RESOURCES:
- YouMap™️
- Ep 6 about S.T.E.R.B.S. (short-term energy relieving behaviors)
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CONNECT WITH VICTORIA:
Victoria Volk 0:00
Hi this is Victoria of theunleashedheart.com and you’re listening to grieving voices, a podcast for hurting hearts who desire to be heard. Or anyone who wants to learn how to better support loved ones experiencing loss. As a 30 plus year griever in advanced Grief Recovery methods specialist, I know how badly the conversation around grief needs to change. Through this podcast, I aim to educate grievers and non grievers like spread hope and inspire compassion towards those hurting. Lastly, by providing my heart with yours in this platform, grievers had the opportunity to share their wisdom and stories of loss and resiliency. How about we talk about grief, like we talked about the weather? Let’s get started. Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices. I am your host Victoria Volk of The Unleashed Heart and today my guest is Michelle Marsh. She studied Reiki one and two as a teenager which began her journey into wellness. And after leaving school, she went into Registered Nursing where she learned the pros and cons of western medicine. After getting frustrated with the system, she left and began down a path of learning and natural health and hypnotherapy soon moving into coaching. Recently, Michelle has studied creative therapies and this year is delving deeper into alcohol herbalism and your Aveda. Now a mom of three and wife to a wonderful tolerant husband, Michelle describes herself as a highly sensitive person who loves to experience life to the fullest. In a nutshell, Michelle works with nature and creativity to help others grow and create change. Thank you so much for being my guest today. Michelle.
Michelle Marsh 1:52
Hello, thank you for having me.
Victoria Volk 1:55
We know each other to your friends for like two years. And this is the first time we’re actually recording. And I’ve been trying to pin you down for quite some time. But I think it’s perfect timing just given all of the change and transformation that I know you’ve gone through in the past two years. But more importantly, how that change has transpired probably in light in a lot of ways because of COVID. And so excited to see where this conversation goes today. But can you share a little bit about the Michelle before COVID and the impact that has had on your life in the Michelle after COVID? And just to clarify, she lives in Western Australia?
Michelle Marsh 2:42
Yes, it is. Although I think you’re the one with a funny accent. Okay, so Michelle. Oh, so that’s a doozy. Deezy Deezy question. Michelle, post COVID is much more accepting of the grayness of the future. So I think that’s probably the biggest change than the uncertainty of everything that’s kind of gone on here, has given me in the sense that before COVID, I really like to plan before COVID, I would always have a future vision of how everything is going to be. And with so many changes, and so much potential for change occurring. And there were you know, there’s been quite a few things in my life that I would I was doing that has been well felt like it was ripped beneath my feet. And all of a sudden, the trajectory I was on and my husband was on, career wise, family wise, all sorts of things disappeared. And in the past, when I’ve come across those kind of uncertain moments or you know, when big changes come into life as it does one of my biggest strategies for dealing with that would be to sit down and and replan and re visualize something into the future because knowing where you are going gives you a sense of purpose and hope. And so the last two years, particularly this this past year, it’s like, we don’t know what’s going to happen next and how well there’s a lot of freedom has been changed here, where I live and and so it’s like it was about six months ago, I had had a moment of going been so frustrated because I kept planning and it kept kind of falling apart. Just one little announcement and it would just crumble down again and this frustration and then wanting to plan but being afraid to Take the next step in a plan as well because of that, and I was sitting there and I was in a meditation and it was like, there was just this gray fog. And it’s like, well, I can’t just keep standing here where I’m at. Because you can’t do that for life. Like that’s, that’s the path we’re staying still to, to misery, right, we have to move forward. That’s where the growth is. But the fear of stepping into sight is the great unknown. So it’s, it’s not that I don’t dream and plan now. I do. But it’s with the knowledge that it can be. It can disappear at any moment. And I think now in hindsight, I look back. And I think how funny because it’s not like that was ever different. Life could always change on a dime, yet, your plans could always change. But I had a false sense of security, pre 2020. Whereas now, it’s like my eyes have been opened as to the true changeable nature of life. And, you know, it was terrifying at first. And in some days, it still is, and some days, I really feel the loss of that that certainty. On the other hand, what a gift because it’s kind of exciting, as well like to go the potential, you know, instead of knowing where you’re going, knowing the end of the story, it’s like a great book, where anything can happen. Like, yeah, hope that answers.
Victoria Volk 6:34
And I want to, I want to touch on that a little bit and go a little deeper on what you said, when you talked about the possibility because there I think there’s so many people that could think, like the negative, right, like, this isn’t going to work out. It’s like the worst possibility rates, so many people have that knee jerk reaction to think of the worst case scenario. Yeah. So what have you learned through the grief that this has brought you to? Because it is grief changing pattern patterns of behavior and your life and plans that gets swept from under you? What have you learned in how have you been able to reframe your positive goal of possibility instead of fear? Really?
Michelle Marsh 7:19
Yeah, that’s definitely been been grave. So saying that I’ve had in my head since I was a kid, I don’t know where it came from, is there’s always a way you just have to find it. And I’ve, I’ve always believed that, except for when I haven’t. Sometimes you forget, right. But it’s always kind of been there in the back of my mind. So one of the things that happened towards the end of last year in, in studying creative therapies at uni, is that I had a trajectory from going from this postgraduate diploma that I’m doing into the Masters, which would then take me into the system have been registered and been able to mingle with, you know, in the, in the medical world and things kind of in the system, I suppose. Because I, I fell in love with it. And I’m good at it. You know, they try to say that in the most non egotistical way, but you know, when you just go, oh, yeah, like, it all makes so much sense to me. And I find that quiet, it’s a lot of work but quite easy at the same time to understand. And so it was like, having this baby kind of gifted to me, and I was, I was just in love, and I was committed to it. And, and it was just such a beautiful gift. Because I had originally said, I’m going to do this, and I’m going to integrate it into like, my coaching and consulting that I do, what I learn, and, and then I had this whole new vision and pathway that I was going to go on. And then there was announcements at the end of last year that said that you have to be vaccinated to practice as as that kind of registered practitioner and we had chosen as a family not to go down that road health wise. And it was just dream shattered in a moment. And that really, it and I know I spoke to a lot about this at the time, you know, talk about a loss of hopes, dreams and expectations. I had such a strong vision of once I had that masters what I was going to do with it and it it felt so real. It felt so aligned and even talking about it now I can feel that emotion kind of coming up. And it was like, oh, what now and I did just throw my hands up and kind of say if you world and I don’t understand. And this felt so right, I felt so aligned, like, you know, my, the spiritual side of me was really well, the side of me trying to understand the spiritual side of me was very confused. Because I live my life like that I follow my intuition. That loss made me feel very lost in myself. And it made me question everything in the sense of, you know, I follow these, this path of of, like, following the whispers I call it the, you know, that intuitive following what feels good following what feels aligned, and here are here it was, I felt like the universe was just slapping me across the face and going, haha, just jokes, you know, give me the Give me Give me that beautiful baby back, take it away from night just took it straight back. And all the work that I’ve done and the sacrifices that I’ve made, you know, financially timewise to do that study, because, you know, it’s been a couple of years that I’ve been in, it really hurt, really, really hurt.
Michelle Marsh 11:14
And then at the same time been so aware of so many people in the world suffering so much more, you know, that there are there are bigger losses out there. And it could be so much worse, but then it felt like my heart was being tested that it’s such a funny thing, when you have a have a loss like that, because it’s what I was grieving was was never actually a reality in the first place. So going back to that, that same, there’s always a way, you just have to find that, you know, that was still in the back of my head. And gradually, I realized that what I have learned so far is still mine, I have not lost the last two years of study, it’s still in my mind that still integrated into how I work with people in the capacity that I work with people now. And then I found another way, then I said, I don’t need the approval of that organization over there, to to still study and learn what I love and to integrate it into what I offer into the world, nobody can stop me from offering my skills, I’m just not allowed to use certain words, you know, and it’s, there’s, there’s always a way, there’s always a way. And and it can be really hard and frustrating when you don’t have the support that you thought you were going to have on that journey. But then there’s, you know, six months on from that, so many gifts in that as well that have kind of come from that big shake up of that expectation. Now what I’m doing is so much more expansive, that it would never fit in that tiny little box of where I thought I was going. So I guess moving through it one foot in front of the other. With that mantra going through my mind, there’s always a way, I just need to keep moving forward, until I find that way, knowing that I’ll probably go this way and then that way and up and down and around in circles quite a few times before I feel like I’m sort of tracking forward maybe and that’s okay. That’s the other mantra in my mind. It’s okay. It’s all okay. Every emotion every, every wrong turn every, every every right. It’s all okay, it’s all perfect. So I suppose I have a much deeper trust and faith these days than I used to. Because I can’t plan.
Victoria Volk 13:59
Well, and again, like we’ve like so many of us get reminded it’s you can plan until you’re blue in the face, but not at all there’s an expression God will laugh at your plans anyway or something like yeah, as the last laugh. I just filled out a survey not that long ago or not a survey a questionnaire to be on a podcast and the question was something to the effect of when was a time in your life that you had failed? And you know, what, what did you learn from it? And like the old me, before I really started my journey of personal development, especially the last probably, like pre grade recovery me would have would have looked at that and and answered probably in the way of really looking down on myself. Right and really, I could have probably thought of things left and right to put in there. But my perspective of failure now. I don’t know if you I know from what I know of you I’m thinking you share the same thinking is that there is no failure. It’s all learning the perspective of how I look at failure like there, there is no failure. And I used to, you know, we are our worst critics, our own worst critics. And that used to be a really one of the things that brought me down the most, and my self confidence and, and my worth, and all of that. So I think it’s really important that we look at failure, and really dig deep into it. Of what how we want to reframe that. So how do you? What is your stick on failure these days?
Michelle Marsh 15:45
It’s a really good question, because it’s not something I really think about anymore. Because it’s kind of like you, I used to think about how many failures I’ve had. And just as you’re talking there, I’m like, Well, I guess what’s happened is I don’t see them as failures anymore. They seem as launchpads I see them as my biggest moments of, of growth. Because I’ve, I’ve had plenty of things which people could label us as failures if they wanted to. But if those things hadn’t occurred, I would not be the person I am right now. I would not feel the expansiveness and love and everything that I have hearing my heart so solidly these days, I wouldn’t have any of that. Because I wouldn’t have learned how to come come through. And so I suppose in the in the sense of how I saw things as failures in the past. Whereas now I don’t, I see them as growth opportunities now, which means I move through things a lot quicker. I think if like that example that I gave with my study, if that had happened, say three years ago, it probably would have taken me maybe a year, two years to get over it, you know, not over it, too. We don’t get over things, we integrate them. And we grow from them with without any kind of trauma or grief, or occurrence. And so I think it’s a reframe into a growth opportunity, instead of it being a failure. And the best thing we can do is to fail again, and again, and again and again. And I used to read books saying that, and I would think, yeah, because then you learn how to do it right, and you don’t fail anymore. You know, those Harar kind of books, like, you know, learn how to do it wrong. So then you know how to do it, right? It’s such a load of crap, get comfortable with it, and know that it’s an opportunity. And yes, it’s an opportunity that hurts like hell, and I can’t ever see myself seeking that out and saying, Oh, I hope this is one of those moments of
Victoria Volk 17:55
Great, right, we don’t ask for it.
Michelle Marsh 17:58
Every endeavor every step of the way, I’m hoping that things go smoothly and well, and that it feels so flow when you know all the rest of it, that when ultimately the pain does come along, it’s that knowledge in the back of your mind that that you can get through it. And it’s the previous failures or growth opportunities. And having come through those and then being able to see those in hindsight. That gives you the courage to know that no matter what happens into the future, and I suppose this is where getting comfortable with that greatness in front of in front of me has come from no matter what’s thrown at me, I will find a way through it, I’ll find a way to integrate that I’ll find a way to find meaning in it, which I think is is a big part of, you know, coming through trauma coming through grief is, is having some sort of meaning attached to it, not to dispel the pain. Because it’s so important, I think to to honor that and integrate it, but that the meaning gives us a sense of purpose and understanding of why we experience it in the first place, which to me is then that Launchpad into the growth in our future and into better experience.
Victoria Volk 19:22
I know because we’re friends that you experienced a loss during that transition of trying to understand that what you wanted to the stream that you were hoping to build and launch wasn’t going to happen, at least for the time being, but you did have a loss of someone you loved during that time as well. And
Michelle Marsh 19:42
Yeah, so that was my my grandfather and it happened quite quickly and suddenly, I mean, he was gosh, I should know this. I think he was 96 but he was still living alone and looking after himself. And you know, I’ve completed sound mind and he had a fall and within weeks he he had died. And in that time, we thought he was going home as well, because he, he was healing and then all of a sudden he crashed the night before of the funeral. There was there was an announcement we had really strict borders in, in Western Australia. And we hadn’t had COVID in in our state. And so they, there was one case that that came through. And so they locked everything down based on one case who was in isolation, and they’d identified everybody that had been in contact, which was nothing to do with me or my family or anything near near us. But they locked down everything and said that, so like lots of rules changed. One of them been at funerals, that you can only have 10 people attend, and mums, one to five children. So with partners, you know, she could attend with her her brothers, but none of us cousins and you know, there’s a there’s a big bunch of us cousins, and we’re a very, very close family. It was a grieving of not just the loss of my grandfather, but but from the head of the family. We lost my Nan, you know, 20 odd years ago. So it was this this fear then of is our family still going to come together? Or is it like all of it changed every dynamic of what had been a really solid foundation for all of us in, in that family. I remember, I was already grieving all of that. And then to have here this announcement that I can’t go to the funeral, yet the football was still going ahead was so discombobulated like the grief then that came up from that, and so that night, like and they said, Oh, you know, we’ll live stream and like, okay, okay. But it was kind of like a bit. But it was so hard to really comprehend the feelings that that were going on inside. And I don’t think I’ve ever really thought about how important funerals were. And so in the end, we made a decision, I think I was lying in bed awake at it, I couldn’t sleep, and just so much fire so much anger towards this politician made this decision that made no sense to me, no sense, you know, the rest of the world by then was kind of getting on with things and, and will freaking out a by one case, you know, and yeah, I just hit me, I’m like, No, I’m getting up and getting dressed. Because all of that process of getting dressed to go to the funeral, there’s like ritual in it. And and, and the kids are having the day of school, and they are getting dressed too. And so is my husband, and I’m taking my laptop. And we’re going to drive wasn’t strictly allowed, but we did it. We’re going to drive, we’re going to sit outside on the road in our car, of where I know, they are. So I can see the hearse drive in. So I can I can watch it on on the computer and as close as I can to that.
MIchelle Marsh 23:35
And it ended up being this beautiful on one hand, and then still so much anger and grief on the other side to have not been in the chapel because we turned up there. And I’ve spoken to my three siblings, and they decided they would do the same. So we were turning up but none of us has spoken to our cousins, because we’re a little like, you know, bit worried about what each other would think about breaking the rules to that extent, but we’re like, we’re safe. We’re in our cars where you know, because we weren’t supposed to say anyways, we get there. And the majority of my cousins had decided to do the same thing. And it was so incredible. Watching all of these cars line up on the side of the road with the same idea. They’d all had the same inspiration when I spoke to them later, you know, they’d had the same kind of thing where they’d stayed up all night I couldn’t sleep and angry and then you know, they got this idea to come and I so feel like my granddad went to each of us and gave us that inspiration. And so that was really beautiful. And it was a real kind of connecting moment. But then on the other hand, yeah, it was that there was so much anger because I felt like I’d been told I can’t grieve how I want to grieve and and I realized how important it is. is, you know, after a funeral, when a family comes together for the weight and the telling of those stories and the hugs and the the weird feeling of it all that you don’t have, you know, the grandfather there who’s who’s always been, like, the reason why we get it not the reason but you know that it’s, we get around. And so we didn’t have that. And, and there was a, we were kind of like, Oh yeah, well, once the lockdowns over we’ll, we’ll have awake and all the rest of it. But there was just this fizzling off. And then no one could kind of rally themselves to kind of come together and do that. And I still feel the desire for it. But when I spoke to the rest of my family, they’ve moved past it. So it was so yeah. Yeah, no, I still kind of can’t put a lot of words to it all and explain it because it was, as I was saying to you, before, we jumped on to record this anger on one side, which really made me want to jump into action and be vocal on what was going on over here and all the rest of it. And then the grief, which just felt like, cold, still depression. I can’t move. I give up. What’s the point? You know, and then then what’s the point was tied in with with the grief of what was going on with my grandfather, and then with the grief of everything that I was seeing kind of occurring around me and how much people were getting suppressed? And yeah, it just really made me flake. But then the anger. Good. I’m out in rage every now and then. Such an interesting, interesting process yeah.
Victoria Volk 27:04
Very much a roller coaster. And feeling the weight to have what you see. Right happening with people, you know, and love. It’s not just what’s happening with you. But, you know, friends who maybe lost their jobs because of their points of view, or yeah, you know, situations like that of losing loved ones. Due to but maybe not even getting to see them. Yeah, for they passed away.
Michelle Marsh 27:35
Yeah. Yeah. Dad’s not been able to be with their wives while they’re giving birth. Again, because of a Health Choice. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that’s a carry on at the moment, which is just ludicrous. Yeah, so there’s a lot of pain and grief that you hold for other people with that with. And I think when there’s a when you feel because again, this comes down to personal point of view. But when you feel like people are experiencing grief or additional grief, for no reason, or it seems pointless, because there’s a rule. It’s, it’s really hard to kind of integrate that. You know, it’s different when someone gets hit by a car, and you go through that grieving process and everything, but it’s, it’s almost like the cars been driven purposely or that person has been told to stand on the road or something. And it’s just like, it’s so frustrating. There’s this desire to scream, but you’ve got to let go of it all. Because you have no choice but to yourself, or the world, or your, your own family. And I think after holding that frustration, and for other people, for myself, for the world as a whole, I was crunching in on myself and I am a hermit anyways, but not in a good way. I lost all motivation to to share any any of the messages that I have. And I was I was really struggling with that. And, and I was snapping at my children and my husband and I even though we’re on the same page, we’re starting to get narky at each other. And it’s because it’s the frustration of what’s happening out here that is out of your control, and you’re seeing all these people in pain and you know, I’m that person that my friends call to tell me when they know Yeah, my husband’s just lost their job or and I’ve got a friend and they’ve got an amazing electrical business that and I know how hard her husband’s worked to build that up and employees and things like that. And then these are these crazy rules come in that don’t make sense. And and and then like, how do we navigate this and you know, that feeling that terror of your heart. And it’s, what ends up happening is that your suffering, and your children are suffering because of it, because you’re taking it all in. And it’s because the lack of feeling of control. So at some point, it was like, How do I not dissociate from this? Because that’s not healthy? How do I keep my eyes open and aware to the truth and be okay.
Victoria Volk 30:32
And as a highly sensitive person, and that’s kind of what I’m getting at to conversation, being a highly sensitive person. So what would you suggest to people who may be feeling that way, whether they’re identify as a highly sensitive person or not
Unknown Speaker 30:49
Think this is where your self care behaviors are so important. So as you know, I have been practicing Kundalini, religiously, every every day Kundalini yoga, for over a year now. So those kinds of practices and journaling and meditation, reading a book, all of those things, well, I suppose let me categorize it. So there’s some self care behaviors, like yoga, meditation, that are like muscle strengthening, emotional resilience strengthening, so they do help you to release and let go and integrate different things. But one of the really big things about them is that they are, they are building a strength a core like inside like this. And, and it’s so that when everything is swirling around in a storm around you, you can you can feel your center, still, instead of just been swept around in the storm. So those things, I think it’s really important to have a practice. And that’s hard to do, especially when you’re not feeling great. But that’s where self discipline comes in. And that’s having self integrity, and thinking you’re worth that time and that effort. And children and your family. Yeah. Sorry.
Michelle Marsh 31:07
Can I ask you a follow up question to that? Before I forget, because I think it’s really important, I actually want your thoughts on this. So just it’s come up recently in conversation. So like you can be you can have a yoga practice, let’s say you have a daily yoga practice, and Kundalini, whatever it is, and it’s a practice of being with your body, like being present with your body in your body, feeling safe and supported in your body, right? But what if it’s not, you’re not really with your feelings? Because there’s a difference in with your body. But if you’re not in or with your feelings, is it in a way, a form of spiritual, spiritual bypassing? Or could you be thinking that you’re addressing your grief or your emotions with this practice, but yet, it almost becomes a STERB. Like in grief, we call it a Short-term Energy Relieving Rehaviors.
Unknown Speaker 33:20
It can be a step. Yeah. Yes, this language through so you know what? Yeah. But that Yeah. Yeah.
Victoria Volk 33:28
What do you say to that? Like, yeah, you can have a yoga practice, but it’d be within your body, but how do you sit, be in with your feelings at the same time?
Michelle Marsh 33:39
So I would say that if you’re truly with your body, you can’t not be with your feelings. At the same time, I would say, when it say a sturb. So, you know, people often use that a physical movement as in that way to bypass things and to use it as a healthier band aid than alcohol, but it’s still a band aid, right? And yes, it’s it’s spiritual bypassing, but you’re not when you’re fully embodied. The mind and body are one, your feelings and emotions. It’s all it’s all one thing. So if you’re truly, actually been embodied, and if you’re truly doing the practice of yoga, you will feel it. And I mean, this is this is why, you know, so often, like if I’m consulting with somebody, and they’re having difficulty getting in touch with their emotions and feelings, just just from talk, because it really works well that way. It’s okay, let’s move your body because there’s usually somewhere I can see in them that they’re holding on I’m like, Okay, let’s see what’s there. And once they start to move it, the emotion starts to come up. And so this is what’s supposed to be occurring within within yoga or any of these movement. practices. But there are ways like you say, where you can move your body, and even use the breath and use the mind to completely compartmentalize. And and you know, that’s it’s an incredibly clever thing to do. But humans are clever and and I’d say most people have the skill to actually do this. It’s almost like it gets boxed up and put somewhere, right. But if you’re actually doing the practice properly, and I think this is where intention comes into it, and you are to the best of your ability, because, you know, when we meditate, we all go off and think about dinner and all the rest of it, but you just keep bringing yourself back, you keep bringing yourself back, you keep saying, If I feel something, I will feel it. I give myself permission I although these things are really important, there is no use going through some yoga said, or, or even meditation, you know, in kundalini, we do a lot of chanting and things like that, you can get lost in them. And there is a certain sense of peace and goodness to that as well. But the attention should always be in the present moment. It’s not about escaping, it’s about coming in and feeling and saying, I will feel I will feel this pain, I will feel the light, you know that that means a physical pain and an emotional pain. So I think it comes down to intention as to the difference between both because yeah, know what you mean. And I know, we’ve had conversations about it before in the spiritual bypassing, and I’ve been extremely frustrated in the past, because some of the most what I would have in the past called the most spiritual people I know, like highly psychic people, and mediums and things like that, that I I have known personally, have screwed up what I would personally call personal life and relationships. And I’m like, How does this occur? And it’s because they’re actually not embodied. It’s because they are trying to live in this spiritual world, as an escape, just like drinking can be just like, exercise can be just like, six can be eating anything. It’s an escape from actually feeling and dealing with what’s occurring. So yeah, I think it really does come down to that the mindset and the intention.
Victoria Volk 37:42
What sparked that was I had a podcast guest who had grown up with Yogi parents, but he had never learned how to grieve. He had never had that emulated for him, or, you know, to really be with your emotions, and how to let them move through you and work through them. It was all just, it’s almost as if well, yoga was just this, you’re just going through the motions, right?
Michelle Marsh 38:08
Well, I think a lot of yoga is these days. Isn’t that let’s say it’s a stretching practice. I think the spiritual teachings, which is the spiritual side of of yoga, as a practice is about connection. Actually, I was just reading last night in because as you know, I’ve just started the the teacher training for Kundalini. And and it says in there, I wish I had my manual here, so I could read it out exactly. But it says Yoga is not all of these things that we’re kind of saying right now. It is a relationship. It’s about relationship, relationship to spirit relationship to self relationship to others, which means if you’re in true relationship, you cannot not experience great right, amongst every other emotion as well. So like, without knowing this, this person and his upbringing and what is your your parents are like, I mean, it’s quite possible that they actually never never spoke about that type of thing. Kundalini is quite different from other yoga practices, from what I can see it is all about being embodied, which embodied means experiencing the physical, emotional, and the etheric together as one. But yeah, it happens. And I do it too. I think we all do it.
Victoria Volk 39:33
Especially when life feels like a shitshow. Right? You’ve touched on this now, so let’s go there. Okay, because obviously, you must have some hopes, dreams and expectations or for the future with now Kundalini, but like you said, it’s whatever you go through in life, it’s education. It’s not failure, and no one can take it away from you whether it is a training program or it is a perceived failure perceived by others. So what gives you hope for the future.
Michelle Marsh 40:09
Is failing inside of me. It sounds so whoo and so I exam low, ugly, shy I have honestly come to a point in my own growth and development where I feel like I said, it’s, it’s that so I’ve done so much work on strengthening this inner core and being of myself that there is such a pleasant feeling there. It doesn’t mean I don’t get angry or scared, you know, just this morning, you know, I was, I was saying to my husband, you know, I had had a lot of anxiety coming up around, you know, finances and things because everything’s quite changeable still. But it all seems to work out in the end. And, and I think what gives me hope is that no one can take away this feeling I have inside, the only way it disappears is when I let it disappear, like I did for a moment this morning. So say, Everything’s gonna be okay. It’s all okay. And, and there’s always another opportunity. There’s always another. I’m constantly surprised and delighted life can can offer and deliver. So even if what I’m not envisaging in my mind doesn’t come to fruition. While I was still grief that because like you say, you know, I’ve got another vision in my mind now. Wow, I know, I would grieve that. I also know that whatever comes here has got opportunity for for delight and joy that I can’t even envision right now. And so whichever way it goes, it’s okay. And I think that’s where the hope lies. Now. It’s, which is a funny way to put it, but it’s, it’s, I guess, in the past hope has been in relation to wanting something so that I could be happy. That will make me happier once I have that. Whereas now it’s like there’s there’s a sense of, of joy and connect and contentedness. That’s a word in the now and but a hope for the sparks and joy that I kind of know are going to come anyways, I just don’t know what form along with the, the grief and the pain that I know will be in there as well. And it’s like, okay, let’s do it. Welcome to Life, welcome to Life, which then brings me back to like that Kundalini morning practice. That’s what that feels like, right? And it doesn’t have to be Kundalini Yoga, there’s so many different practices out there that you can get this from. It’s a mixture of this, it’s like your life, because it’s a mixture of intense pain when you have your arms out here for seven minutes. And it really hurts. But then it’s like, why would you do that to yourself. But then at the same time, there’s, like, this box of just moments where everything syncs together, or you get this higher state of awareness after a bit of breath work or meditation or, or, or at achievement, when the first time that you actually managed to keep your arms up there without flaking out. And, and that that willpower, I feel like I need to let my arm down, and then your mind is going, No, I’m gonna stay on that path. No, you’re not putting your arm down, and you just stay there and you stay there and you stay there. That’s the training, but it’s also the experience of so then when it happens in your like day to day life. It’s like, oh, no, I’ve come through that. How many times have I failed? Was my arms falling down? And then I got it. Right. You know, so it’s like, it’s giving you life experience. And I think that’s, again, like I said, those types of practices, training. And, man, I always think Imagine if we all grew up with that kind of training, like understanding not just the physical side of it, like, my teachers speaks wholly in a lot about what’s actually even occurring internally, you know, it’s like, sometimes I’ll be like, there and I’ll be sobbing and so angry. She won’t let me put my hands down Yeah, yeah.
Victoria Volk 44:45
Life training,
Michelle Marsh 44:47
Live training. Yeah, yeah. And there’s lots of ways to do it.
Victoria Volk 44:50
So if people want to learn your way, or want to connect with you, where can they find you?
Michelle Marsh 44:56
Aromalysis which is my business And that is a Romanisis.com.au. And, yeah, there’s a there’s a couple of different offerings in there. One which can be offered to anybody around the world is my wellbeing readings where I use my intuition as well as my knowledge in herbalism, and Western medicine and psychology and everything else that I’ve studied. And basically given an overview of, of your wellness is along with some different suggestions in your lifestyle diet. And really, when it comes down to it, a lot of the time it’s what people are experiencing physically comes down to the grief they are holding within the unprocessed unintegrated emotions. I give some some tips and kind of next steps around that. And then yeah, I also consult with people face to face as well when the opportunity arises.
Victoria Volk 45:57
And do you have two years you make teas as well? Right?
Michelle Marsh 45:59
I do. I do. Oh, thank you for saying, see there’s so many wonderful things in the world. I do I love I love my my teas and my herbs. My shop is not up yet. But it will be discoverable with through aroma Gnosis, so you can follow me on Instagram, I’m at aroma Gnosis as well. And I will have that shot up soon with all my medicinal goodies which I love to when I put them together, I only ever put my my herbals and medicinals together when I am in alignment in myself. And I also like to do it in alignment with the moon and the energies of the planets. And so all of that that’s where the alchemical herbalism comes in. It all comes in into play. And it’s such a beautiful expansive thing to do is to sit there chanting away as you’re as you’re preparing something or have steam, or whatever state of that.
Victoria Volk 46:59
Lots of love infused I do not doubt so much. And I will put the link in to all of your information in the show notes. And is there anything else you would like to share?
Michelle Marsh 47:11
Just deep gratitude for you, my friend, I have learned so much from you about grief. And the true nature of grief. I think it’s it’s we often label it so many other things. And when it comes down to it, it’s it’s it’s grief. And, and not being afraid of that. And yeah, understanding the nuances around it, and this podcast that you’ve been doing and have the most incredible guests on that I’m just like, so amazed that, that I am on here in in the presence of some pretty incredible people, you’re a true gift to the world. An absolute true gift. So thank you so much.
Victoria Volk 47:58
Thank you, thank you for being my friend. Oh, sister from another mother tidally. This has been so much fun. Thank you so much for sharing. I think the loss of hopes dreams and expectations is a loss that many people can relate to and experiencing loss during COVID as well. And so I appreciate you sharing your story. We didn’t even get into you map which oh, I want to try and weave that in there some way but didn’t didn’t quite fit. So maybe that’s another conversation for another time.
Michelle Marsh 48:28
Next time. Yeah. So much I could say about that that.
Victoria Volk 48:33
Anything like in a nutshell, like what it what it did for you.
Michelle Marsh 48:36
Yeah. So when you did that, now I’m trying to remember the timeline. But that’s when I was feeling kind of squeezed. And it was towards the end of last year. So it was kind of like when all the things were going on. And at the same time, I was like no, I’m gonna find my path. I will find that way, you know, determined and you you offered the umat to me surprised me most about it was really bringing to my attention, what my priorities were, what my values were. And so I made a decision. Actually, I do remember exactly. It was mid last year because it was when my grandfather died. It was at right at that point. And I remember I was trying to make decisions am I gonna do this, I’m never gonna do that. And when I saw my values written in kind of hierarchy, and and I made a decision to I’m going to live by those because it because you kind of realized that Oh, hang on. I’m putting all my attention into my fifth or sixth Valley. But about that top one that changed my behavior and my actions and still does that was a catalyst into this. This this alien of solid joy and knowledge and knowing that I’ve got that that rock hard feeling that chord that I was talking about. That was a catalyst doing that YouMap I couldn’t recommend it higher. Lay enough to people, it’s such a good way to get to know yourself. Especially if you have no idea, I think, yeah, it is true. If you’re feeling lost, actually, it doesn’t even matter how much you know yourself. I mean, I’ve been doing self development for years, I thought I knew I was like, Yeah, I already know where I’m at, there’s always more to discover it, put it in black and white in front of you, and then try and weasel your way into putting your head back in the sand, it’s really hard to do. So it’s a gift to have in front of you.
Victoria Volk 50:31
Yeah, and for people not familiar with it, I’ll link to it in the show notes. But just it’s a holistic picture of who you really are, that combines your strengths and your values and your skills and, and, and how you’re wired to create this, this map of of you, and it can really shape your path forward. And so thank you for sharing that little snippet of your experience with my listeners. So I’ll put the link to that in the show notes. And thank you again, so much, my friend. Thank you. Thank you. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life much love. From my heart to yours. Thank you for listening. If you liked this episode, please share it because sharing is caring. And until next time, give and share compassion by being hurt with yours. And if you’re hurting know that what you’re feeling is normal and natural. Much love my friend.