Ep 197 Denise Dielwart | Living a Reinvented Widow Life

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

In the quiet after-hours of our bustling lives, we often overlook the profound journeys that shape us. For today’s episode, I had the honor of speaking with Denise Dielwart on Grieving Voices—a woman who turned her deepest sorrow into a beacon of hope for thousands.

After the sudden death of her husband left her in despair, Denise discovered that traditional methods of dealing with grief weren’t effective. This realization led to the development of the Flow Grief Release Method – an innovative approach designed to expedite healing from years to months.

Denise’s method challenges conventional wisdom about grieving and recovery timeframes. Instead of following prescribed stages or waiting on time to heal wounds, she advocates for proactive steps towards reclaiming one’s life after loss. Her focus is not just coping but transforming lives and finding joy again.

During our conversation, Denise shares candidly about:

  • The shock and turmoil following unexpected bereavement.
  • The inadequacy she felt while engaging in talk therapy.
  • How questioning “Who am I?” post-loss was pivotal in redefining herself beyond being a wife or mother.
  • Why widowhood is often misunderstood as a form of grief – it involves adjusting to numerous small changes that significantly impact daily life.
  • Practical advice on navigating finances and legal matters after losing a spouse.
  • Feeling emotions deeply rather than suppressing them as part of the healing journey is essential.

Denise emphasizes taking action over merely talking through pain and introduces us to her FLOW acronym: Feel your emotions fully; let go of what holds you back; overcome obstacles by addressing underlying issues; become whole by embracing your new identity post-grief.

RESOURCES:


CONNECT:

_______

NEED HELP?

  • National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
  • Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor

If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.

CONNECT WITH VICTORIA: 

Healing from Grief: Denise Dealwart Shares Her Transformative Journey

In today’s episode of Grieving Voices, we had the privilege of hearing from Denise Dealwart about her heart-wrenching experience with loss and her powerful path to recovery. After losing her husband unexpectedly, Denise embarked on a journey that led her to create the Flow Grief Release Method – an approach designed to help individuals heal from grief more rapidly and holistically.

Denise shares candidly about the limitations she encountered with traditional therapy and how it propelled her towards self-healing and redefining herself post-loss. She dives into the complexities faced by those who are widowed, including managing finances, legal issues, and emotional revelations after losing a spouse.

The Flow Method is centered around feeling emotions deeply but also letting go of pain while retaining love for the person lost. It’s about taking action towards healing rather than staying stuck in coping mechanisms. This method has revolutionized how people move through grief by addressing underlying trauma and unresolved feelings.

Denise emphasizes that everyone’s grief is unique; there is no one-size-fits-all solution. The conversation challenges conventional models like Elizabeth Kübler-Ross’s five stages of grief, highlighting its original context for terminal illness patients rather than bereaved individuals.

Through personal transformation stories, Denise illustrates how loss can lead to profound self-discovery as individuals navigate their new identities separate from their roles tied to loved ones passed away. Change may be daunting but embracing it can pave the way toward growth and rediscovery.

Episode Transcription:

Victoria Volk: Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices. Today, I’m happy to bring to you Denise DealWart. She has experienced a profound loss firsthand after the sudden passing of her husband. After trying many methods that were not working, Denise sought a path to healing that led to the creation of the flow grief release method, a transformative approach to moving through grief with grace and ease. Denise’s journey from the depths of despair to rediscovering joy inspired her to help others. With over fifteen years of experience, she has guided thousands to reclaim their lives from grief using her unique flow method that dramatically shortens the healing process from years to months. Denise’s groundbreaking approach challenges the traditional stages of grief, the waiting of for time, offering a lifeline for those to those who feel stuck and hopeless. Her flow method isn’t just about coping. It’s about transforming your life and rediscovering joy in a way that’s both profound and lasting. We are on the same mission, my friends. So thank you for being here.

Denise Dielwart: Thank you so much for inviting me onto your your podcast. It’s an absolute honor to be here today and to be able to share how we do move forward from grief.

Victoria Volk: Because it is possible, like we were talking just before we hit record. Yeah. But we will get to that topic. Where I wanna start though is really where this all started fifteen years ago?

Denise Dielwart: Well, fifteen years ago, as you know, I’m in I’m in Australia. So fifteen years ago, my husband basically went to work and didn’t come home. He yeah. I was fifty one. He was fifty five. We had just we were just settling him down into our new life because we got married young and the kids, the door moved out and they we were on eight acres that was out after ever home that we built, eight acres. So he had a motorbike track out the back for the boys because I had I’ve got nine grandsons. And yeah. And then he woke up one morning, said goodbye. It was Monday morning, goodbye to you, and he never came home. He died of a blood clot. So there was no there was no good bias. There was nothing. It was there was no time. It was he was healthy. And obviously, that sent me into a complete, as I said, la la land, complete sprint. And but what I found was is that after I sort of came around and you sort of come out of that fog and you start moving forward, I was I was seeing a therapist, I was seeing a psychologist who was just talking to me, just talking, tell me about it, tell me about it, tell me about it. And I wasn’t getting any better. I wasn’t feeling as I was moving forward. And I knew that he wouldn’t want to see me crying for the rest of my life. You know, sitting there going, oh my god, look what happened to me. I’m so sad. As I wouldn’t want it have wanted it for him either. And that’s when I sort of went okay. What do I do? What do I do? What do I do? And I kept asking that question. What do I do? How do I heal? Now bear in mind, this was fifteen years ago before Facebook and everything in the group’s, you know, was there. There wasn’t that support. And I knew though instinctively as well that I needed to heal me and I needed to heal. And that’s when my journey started. And I I I started looking within. I started healing myself. And, you know, the profound change with me changing my focus from not been at the moment that he died, but to who am I? Who am I now? That was my biggest question as a widow, you know. For women, we we so talk to do everything for everybody else. But when it comes to ourselves, We don’t we lose ourselves in our marriage or our partnership. We lose our identity. I got married at nineteen twenty. Turning twenty, had the kids young. I was a mother. I was a I was a wife that fell into that role. And then, of course, when that role gets taken away, it was like, well, who am I? I remember breaking down one night, and I’ve had breaking down with a with a this wine. I’m I will admit it. I had one one, and I had another one, and I had one one. And I sat there crying, and I felt Denise, who are you at fifty one? You don’t even know who you are.

Victoria Volk: I think a lot of people listening feel that way.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah. A lot

Victoria Volk: of people just don’t know who they are.

Denise Dielwart: And I

Victoria Volk: think in it often, this happens when our lives are flipped upside down and we start asking ourselves, we just don’t ask ourselves those deeper questions.

Denise Dielwart: No. We don’t. We don’t.

Victoria Volk: So we’re forced to usually. Yeah. Because

Denise Dielwart: when when when when life is is happening and, you know, I mean, no marriage, and I say this to all the women’s that I’ve worked with. And I mainly work with women’s. I work with everybody, but my my My passion is with us because as as a widow, regardless of age, we We don’t, we’re the most misunderstood, deaf out there. People don’t understand what it’s like to lose a husband. They’re very special. It’s a different loss. Each loss is different. So if you lose a child, it’s a different loss to losing asthma. Or a life partner. Losing a life partner is you lose you lose not just that person, but you lose your whole life. You have to start over. You have to start reimagining your new life because that’s what it is. It’s a new life. Your life doesn’t just carry on. You don’t just go, okay. Well, I’ve got you know, so many people say, well, think that you oh, you just get over it. You’d never get over it. You never get over it. You know, that’s such a cliche. Aren’t you over it yet? Over what?

Victoria Volk: Did your kids tell you that or say that to you?

Denise Dielwart: My kids never told me that, but a lot of friends would say to me, you know, gosh, Denise, it’s been so It’s been six months, aren’t you over a kid?

Victoria Volk: How long did how long were you going to therapy and how long from the time when you started to you were going to therapy to when you realized, okay, this isn’t working for me. I need to figure this out, obviously, on my own. How much time it passed?

Denise Dielwart: It was about six months. About six months.

Victoria Volk: That’s still pretty fresh and new.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah. Yeah. I was so determined for for Martin’s sake, not for my sake. But for Martin’s sake, my husband’s sake, to continue living. Because I knew that he wouldn’t want me to to die with him. So that was my drive is that I wanted to heal as quickly as possible. Heel myself. Not forget about him or forget about the life we had together, but to heal me. You know, plus I had to come out my adult kids and I had the grandchildren and and, you know, we wanna be strong. We wanna put on face, but I didn’t I wanted to genuinely find joy again. And I’ve just pretend and put the mask on, you know, that I’ve called my the happy mask you know, the army k mask. How are you? Oh, okay. You know, so it was when I actually I was sitting as my therapist, my my Psychologist. And then I said to her, I said, how long am I gonna be? Fillingknockers? And she looked at me shocked, and she sent me to niece. She said, you’ve lost your husband. It’s only been six months. You’re gonna be like this for the next five to seven years.

Victoria Volk: Not good advice. And I’m not very hopeful, but listen.

Denise Dielwart: It was in that moment, but it was credited to us not really thinking back now because it was in that moment on the way home. I used some choice four letter words to my steering wheel. About, I’m not gonna stay like this. There’s no way that I’m gonna stay like this. Who the hell does she think she is? Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, pleated pleated It didn’t insert, insert, insert. But that was my turning point when it was like, okay. She’s not gonna help me. Because what therapy is is talk therapy. And we can’t talk our way out of grief. We have to take action. Amen. Amen.

Victoria Volk: I facilitate. It’s a program called the grief recovery method, and it is all action. Action.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Action. Yeah.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: So I do wanna mention one thing that you said, and then I will come back to the action piece but you had touched on it a little bit about the, you know, the grief of losing a child, which I cannot imagine. I I was narrowly close to losing my son. I mean, it was not that he almost died, but if the stars would have blind differently. He very well could have. Yeah. So I was faced with that, but and that’s not even to compare people who have lost a child. I just cannot imagine. But when you said about how different it is to losing a spouse, I’ve been married now. I’ve been with my husband for over twenty years and the differences with the child and the spouse is like you it’s the children grow up and they leave. Right? Like, you’re there you’re their caretaker for eighteen years, generally speaking, like most children leave go to college and want to get out of the house they don’t wanna listen to Monz Nagin anymore. Right? So but your spouse is very much still an integral part of your life on the daily once the kids are gone. Right? I just interviewed someone a gentleman who lost his wife of fifty one years.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: It’s sith. When you’re so you know, the two become one. Right? Well, you’ve just become so ingrained in each other’s daily lives. It’s almost like what do you do when that person’s no longer there? When if you took walks together, if you had morning coffee together, you know, so many of our behaviors are adjusted around who we’re with, who we’re spending our time with.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah. Yeah. And and it’s so it’s so spot on. And that’s why I specialized in widows, and so many people say to me, why not men? Well, I’m not a man.
I know what I I know what I went through. Men grieve differently. Yes, I can help you, but you know, it’s not it’s I have helped men. I have helped people that have lost a child. But for a widow, that’s my journey. So I can help you. I know what I went through and I know what it takes. And like you said, you know, you you said it’s the little things. It’s like, Martin used to bring me a cup of coffee in bed every morning. He’d get up, he’d make coffee. And suddenly, it wasn’t there. And you’re lying in bed and you’re going, oh, well, suppose I have to make my own coffee.

Victoria Volk: What I wouldn’t give for a cup of coffee.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah. Yeah. So it’s it’s not It’s not the big things, and this is why I say it’s the most misunderstood grief. It’s losing a spasm. Because it’s not the big things.
It’s the little things. I remember I was outside with the pool and I had to bend down and I had to get into the the basket to clean it all out. Now, that was the job. That was the pool was his job. I didn’t worry about that. And, of course, the basket got stuck and I couldn’t get it out. And I remember just yelling up at the sky and saying, I wonder if you die. Why did you do this to me? Now I’ve got to do what you did. And it’s not an anger that you’re angry with them. It’s frustration. You know, the the fast stages of grief you go through anger. No. You’re going through frustrated. You’re just to get I’ve got to do this now myself. So you gotta learn new skills. You gotta take on the mowing and stuff that that he used to do. Even taking out the garbage, looking things like it.

Victoria Volk: So many of the widows that I’ve spoken with too, didn’t weren’t involved with the finances. That’s huge. So when their spouse left, they had or passed away, or they had no clue. Yeah. And that’s very overwhelming, I imagine.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah. That is huge. A lot of my clients are always lucky in that I was in my previous life. I was a bookkeeper tax agent. Mhmm. So Martin and I had our own business for years and years and years and then he started working from home and I started working from home. So we were just, you know, floating along, getting on And the gift in that is that when he died, I just carried on with the finances because I handled all the finance

Victoria Volk: That’s a huge stressor that you yeah. That’s a huge stressor. But even still, you still have all the other the significant others or spouses accounts and retirement and social media and any advice for those types of things, like those logistical type things? Like, I mean, I just I mean, I don’t know. You just gotta do it, but

Denise Dielwart: First thing is to not get overwhelmed. You said, you know, when when when your spouse dies, Suddenly, the bank is on new. Okay. Well, we wanna freeze this and we wanna do this and you can’t do this and you can’t do that because they’re not there and and my husband Martin didn’t have a will because we were we were in the process of setting all of that up, so he died without a will. So for me, I took the path of least resistance. I told the least people possible until I moved friends and moved money and did stuff. Because I knew that the men and us that as that the bank got wind of it. They would have just freeze clothes and everything. You know, even even to his frequent flyer points, he’s on on his credit card, I knew that they would be taken away. So I started transferring them over to me. So it’s really thinking outside of the box when it’s not crumbling and it’s not getting overwhelmed. Because it’s just it’s just fun. And then I guess with my bookkeeping background, I knew how to think practically, okay, and logically, okay, what do I have to do here? What do I have to do there? A lot of my clients are help, a lot of my clients walk through that maze because it is a maze. And if you’ve never had to worry about finances before, if you’ve never had to or about paying up an electricity bill, for example, because that was all taken care of and to be suddenly thrust into this whole world of finances. It’s overwhelming. And that’s where a lot of willows get stuck.

Victoria Volk: It sounds like to me, like, there’s an opportunity there for you to create some sort of course for within your community. Yeah. You know? Maybe to put on your website or something to help people kind of, you know, you can’t the saying has been, like, on the forefront of my mind lately just because of a big project I’ve been working on, but you can’t eat an elephant in one bite. Right? Like, you just throw it little by little. And so I think you know Yeah. To have someone guiding you through. Okay? Just focus on just these two things today. Just get these two things done. Tomorrow’s another day, you know. Yeah.

Denise Dielwart: And then even if you can’t do those, it’s okay. Mhmm. It doesn’t have to be done today. Every often, you know, financial advisers, services, lawyers, they’re all trying to pressure us because they’re on their timeline. Mhmm. It creates your own timeline. Just if you can’t handle it because remember too, you’ve you’ve got widow’s folk. I didn’t know there was such a thing as widow’s folk. Was that, you know, until I actually went through it myself. My kids thought, yeah, I was I think my daughter said to me, mom, you’ve told us that already. You’ve said that. And I said when? She said about five minutes ago, she said she said to me, I think you’re getting Alzheimer’s. You’re losing your mind. I lost my car keys for about three months. Three months. I lost I was using my spare keys. I was still bookkeeping it. I was just after Martin passed away and I had to go and see a client and I would all dressed up and had my laptop and everything and now look to me It’s in our booth. We had a parrot, a pink and gray parrot, and I was like, oh, it’s gonna be a hot hot day in the ninety degree day today. I better leave some water for him. So I filled up his water bill, checked his food, second bite to him, and Well, my keys. You didn’t find my keys. My sunglasses and my keys. And I looked and I looked and I was getting later and later and later and I can’t find my keys. So I mentioned I’ve grabbed the spiky and I was like, I have to take the spiky and go. See this client? Okay, Becca. I wonder what happened to my kids. Anyway, I got this back. He didn’t think about it. In about three months later, I was watching the TV. And on top of the TV were my kids and my sunglasses.

Victoria Volk: And that’s what happens when But it’s normal.

Denise Dielwart: It is normal. It is normal. So for people to go, what? I’m losing my mind. No.
You’re not. It’s just your your body’s way of protecting you. And that’s why in the initial stages, there’s so much paperwork to be done especially in a widows case. There’s so much paperwork to be done. There’s the there’s the there’s the there will you know, there’s the kids that might be fighting about. Why didn’t this one leave me that? And that one leave me that. And and in blender, you know, I’ve had ladies and that I’ve got a blended family. So it could be the second marriage. So the kids from the first marriage don’t want her to have anything. I’ve had Widows and the client Widows clients that that that the kids have kicked her out of the house that she’s been in for twenty years. Wow. And that’s another brief and another layer in itself. Yeah. Then there’s the other the other scenarios where and it’s it’s I didn’t realize how common it was. Until I started this work, is that the the woman finds out after her husband dies, that he’s been having a face. So it’s the betrayal that they’ve got to deal with, but they’ve got nobody to yell and scream at and argue with about it because he’s gone.

Victoria Volk: What do you do with all of those emotions and feelings and Mhmm.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah? Yeah. So it it’s that’s that’s why I go back to it. It’s the most misunderstood because there’s a lot of a lot very often, there’s a lot of skeletons in in the cupboard because Nobody really wants to mention them. They find all the stuff out about their husband when he dies. They might find that that that he you know, it might not be an affair, but when they’re doing the the estate and winding everything up, all of a sudden, he’s got a loan here and he’s got a loan there and especially if they haven’t been involved in the finances. So it’s messy. It’s really messy. And if they don’t have the right support, and they’re just going to see a talk therapist, and they’re gonna just talk about how you’re feeling, Nothing’s gonna change. Howard

Victoria Volk: Bauchner: And that’s what I’ve found too in a lot of support groups, you know, women you know widows or parents who lost children or doesn’t matter the the context of the support group, but that’s what you’re doing. You’re going to the circle of people. Yes, you’re connecting with other people with similar losses, which is great. But at the same time, you’re going to listen to other people’s story again and again and again and you’re gonna be telling your story again and again and again and there’s no action taken and you leave feeling maybe a little better for an hour, but, you know, those people, you say goodbye and a couple days later, you’re back to where you were. Until the next meeting, you know? It’s it’s like the it’s a pacifier, really. It is tough to make an action.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah. Yeah. I’ve got a beautiful part of mine. Went to griefshare five times. And because she’s such a good client of mine, I eventually sit to her and says, what didn’t you understand the first time? And she laughed. She said to me, you know, looking back now. I thought that maybe, if I go this time, it could be different. I maybe I missed something. I said, you went five times because it doesn’t work.

Victoria Volk: Well, and think about your your state of mind when you’re going.

Denise Dielwart: You think you’re going crazy. Yeah.

Victoria Volk: And so maybe there’s a little bit of comfort that you’re feeling in being in circle with other people who also feel like they’re going a little crazy yet

Denise Dielwart: at the same time,

Victoria Volk: nobody’s progressing forward.

Denise Dielwart: No.

Victoria Volk: Not an environment conducive of healing, to me, in my opinion.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah. Then me too. In my opinion too, and that’s why, you know, I I became a life coach after Martin died. Now, I became a life coach because remember I was in the bookkeeping world. So I thought, well, I become a life coach to heal myself. I’ll get all the tools, and then I can become a business coach. That was my that was my dream, that was my path forward. Never in my water streams that I think I would be be working with Widows and Grief. That just was not a moderator until it was. It was like, okay. So many people says, you’ve gotta work with buddhist. And as you heal so quickly, you’ve gotta, you know, you’ve gotta you’ve gotta share. You’ve gotta do this work. And I I really rejected it. No. No. No. No. No. No. Until I eventually said, you know what? If I meant to work with Muuto, universe God, show me the way. And it all unfolded. And that’s that’s where I’m where I am today.

Victoria Volk: So what did that action look like for

Denise Dielwart: you? So the first thing I did was open up. There was a Facebook group. And just open up. Because, you know, I’m sitting here in Australia, and I’m thinking, I wanna work around the world. I don’t wanna just be working in one on one come to my office, and I’ll I’ll help you. And I remember sitting there at the front of my computer and I was early on before before any Facebook groups were what they are now. I thought, okay. I started Facebook group and it was me and another friend of mine in South Africa. It was two of us. She had just lost her who who husband, who was a school friend of my husband. So there was quite a tight knit bond there. And I was just heard me. In script and I thought, okay. So I just started posting in the group and the group started growing. And that’s how I started. I started my program. I re reversed engineered how I healed myself, and that’s in the flow method. And I created the flow method. And the flow method is an acronym for feel, let go, overcome, and become whole. Because we have to feel our emotions. And that was the the what what the coaching learning to become a a a coach, a life coach was was I learned how to feel. Those in deeper thin. And they added bonuses that I had I had people practicing on me and I was practicing on other people.

Victoria Volk: So what does that look like?

Denise Dielwart: So we used to have our triads. We used to have, you know, to share stories, but it was always that your story. Now let’s get to the what what’s beneath that? And that’s the key to to grief because grief is not I remember my my teacher or my instructor, Sharon, saying at the time, you cannot coach grief. And I I said, why don’t you coach grief? And now I have coaching grief for all these years. And now teaching it because I’ve got my academy as well, the academy of transformational grief coaching. Grief is a different way did you approach people to life coaching? As a life coach, people come to you or you see a life coach because you wanna improve your life. You’re really on that on that path. However, When somebody comes to you with in grief, all they wanna do is get better. They’re unaware nine times out of ten, not always, but nine times out of ten. The unaware of the patterns and the the programming and the beliefs on a subconscious level that’s actually keeping them stuck and keeping them from moving forward. So it’s only when we go beneath the surface. So it’s in layers. It’s like an onion. You’ve got to peel those those layers. Of what he’s keeping you stuck.

Victoria Volk: Well, I would actually challenge the idea too of life coaching because people who go to life coaching, right, they they think that the issue is, well, I’m not good with money or do I get better with money? Or Like, they they think the issue is more superficial. Yeah. And really, their issue is probably grief. On all these emotional communications that have had nowhere to go because we all crave something.
And

Denise Dielwart: Oh, wow.

Victoria Volk: Is cumulative and it’s cumulatively negative. And if you were a child and you had to move a lot, you didn’t have a lot of friends or your parents divorced when you were young, pets that died, trauma that happened, like, so much of the things that people are going to see a life coach for, they should probably actually be seen someone like you or me for. To be honest, spot on.

Denise Dielwart: Spot on. Because, you know, even a boyfriend break up,

Victoria Volk: Yes. It all stacks up.

Denise Dielwart: You know, this unresolved trauma beneath the surface and That’s why we’ve got to feel. We’ve got to feel. But humanity is we don’t want to feel because it’s too painful to feel. So we put on a mask. I’m okay. I’m okay. I’m okay. I’m fine. How was your day? And then people said, oh, you’re so strong? How are you coping? Because then we can let Ghana. I’ve had so many so many of my clients said, but I don’t wanna let go. I don’t wanna let go of of of anything. I wanna just hold on. But it’s not what we’re letting go of. We didn’t go of the pain. You didn’t go of those emotions. You’re not letting go of the person. You’re not letting go of the of of the love that you shared.
You didn’t go of that pain in the heartache.

Victoria Volk: So in your method, is it like a somatic? Experience or what does that look like?

Denise Dielwart: So to let go is where we start digging digging deeply. So the feeling part is this if you’re feeling your emotions. And it’s always You can’t We can’t feel those emotions on our own. The minute we start feeling any emotion, like I mentioned earlier, we shut down. We don’t want to go there. So coaching and digging deep and going beneath the surface, I’m feeling that is the feeling. What are you feeling? Really feeling. It’s not just crying. It’s not just sadness. But where is that emotion? What what’s coming up for you? Then the letting go is okay. Let’s start now, going deep. Let’s let go of what you’re feeling. But before we can let go is we I need to we need to go, where is that emotion? What is that? And can you mobilize because very often we can’t verbalize these emotions. As an example, they might say a client might say, Well, I’m feeling really lonely and isolated. And that’s normal. That is totally normal. Okay. But we don’t you know, as I said, well, that’s that’s normal. Do you feel it it’s a personal it’s okay. Where are you feeling lonely and isolated? And why and we start digging and going deep down. Until they can visualize that emotion and they can feel that emotion and they can say, this is what I’m now letting go. And that’s a process that we go through. So and then you can overcome because now you know what you’re letting go of. And that’s when you become whole. So that’s the whole. I mean, it sounds so simple and easy to do, but it’s not.

Victoria Volk: So how long does that process that you take people through?

Denise Dielwart: As long as it takes. Because sometimes because sometimes sometimes this delayed grief, sometimes there’s some very deep traumatic childhood memories that come up. Because that all plays into the letting go and and the moving forward. Because that sits on a subconscious level. That’s on a subconscious level that we’re not even aware of. And it’s only when we do that deep inner work, but we have somebody walking with us to do that. Because we can only let go of what we know what to let go of and we only know what we know. More than that, we don’t know. So when you work with somebody and what how I help my clients is let’s I take a helicopter view. And I see the blind spots that they don’t see.
And walk them through that.

Victoria Volk: So how would you describe yourself before May fourth two thousand nine. How you would describe yourself today?

Denise Dielwart: Before Martin passed away, I was I wanted to say a good little wife. That’s everywhere I can put it. I Martin and I had a business together, but it was his business. I worked in a and feel free because he was my husband, you know, after all, you’ve got a bill there for your husband. Never got paid for a bill. She used to lie lie about that because You’re my wife. Why would I pay you? You know, that that’s sort of that sort of bantha that we used to have. And I accepted that because it was our it was our business, but It wasn’t. It was his business that I worked in. I was a people pleaser. I wanted to keep the peace. I put myself last. I often often say, you know, for a lot of my my my my woodwork clients that have now become woodwork friends, over the years that we’ve worked together. There’s one lady in particular, and she said to me one day. She said, if Martin had to come through the door, what would you do? I said he’d run away. You wouldn’t wanna be with with the Denise issues now because I wouldn’t put up with the stuff that I put up with in my marriage. And I’m not saying that my marriage was bad. I was a different person than to what I am now. And so of so many of my clients as well because they’re reimagining their life. They’re reimagining who they are. They see the potential. They’re finding themselves. And that’s the key is we can’t stay that married with our. Because that’s a label. Mhmm. I’m a widow. And do you

Victoria Volk: do you feel too that a lot of women fine. They want to stay in that box because of the unknown of of changing. And then what’ll what’ll happen if I do reinvent myself

Denise Dielwart: Yes.

Victoria Volk: Or just change. Right? Like, we are so accustomed to avoiding change. We hate change. We avoid it like the plague because there’s so many unknowns that come with it. And so do you feel like in a lot of the work that you do with people, like women in particular widows? That they’re afraid to rock the boat of their lives. Like, because I have seen so many that once they decide to choose that from themselves and just surrender to whatever it is, that is wanting to come out of them as a result of loss they lose friendships, they lose connections with people, and that’s more loss.

Denise Dielwart: That’s right. And that’s why you need help. You need a process. You need something. Because the minute you start, on your own inner journey and you start rediscovering who you are. Your old life dies. It really does. And there’s the fear. Gotta let go of that imagined life that you were going to have. And in that life is all your friends. It’s all the friends that you had together. You’re together friends. And guess what happens? Is they disappear? They run away. I don’t know where they are, where they go, and they just disappear. And that’s the hardest thing for a widow to accept is the fact that What happened to Mary and John? We used to play Bridgette every Friday night and suddenly they’re not there anymore.

Victoria Volk: Or they’re not you know, the widow isn’t invited.

Denise Dielwart: I’m not invited. Oh, look, they’re all awake. They’re all awake to they’re all awake camping. And I wasn’t invited to go along. But we were just to go camping together.
Why wasn’t I invited? And that’s hurtful. But it’s normal. We have to have the tools to be able to deal with that. And that is that is mindset. That’s a different way of thinking, a different way of being. It’s reimagining. It’s reinventing. It really is reinventing a lot, and that takes work. It takes courage. Not everybody has the courage to do that,

Victoria Volk: but everybody can find it.

Denise Dielwart: Exactly exactly the visit of Oz. I mean, let’s let’s use the visit of Oz as an example. You know, you had the lion. I don’t know if Carrie, yes, she do. You’ve just got to say yes to yourself. You’ve just got to say yes, I can do this. I’m gonna reach out for help. I can do this. And and along the way, and so many of, you know, of my clients over the years have gone, oh, as soon as I’ve fallen down, I’ve fallen backwards. And, yes, you do because it’s never just a straight line up. So you start at the bottom and you start going up and then you might fall down a little bit, but you’re falling down not to the level that you were at. You’re falling down at a higher level, so it’s like waves. You’re going up and going up and going up and you never arrive there. You always grow as having a growth mindset being able to grow and go to the next level, in your own personal growth, your own personal development. Because the grief and your story is just that. It’s what brought you to this point in your life. Weighing you gonna what are you gonna do about that? What are you gonna do about it? Because we’ve got choices. We can stay where we are and we can feed the victim and I hate using the word victim, but it is. I was a victim for a while. Me, told me, my husband died. And so I’ll put my big girl panties on and said Denise, hang on. You got a whole life ahead of you. Do I miss him? I still miss him. It’s fifteen years later. I just get angry with him. I still get angry with him, and I have to do things. I was like, oh my God, you know? So much easier when you were here. But that’s not my life anymore.

Victoria Volk: I think the one of the things that community are being in community of people who are on the same mission, right, of growing. And evolving and reinventing themselves. One of the things that I think comes out of that too is you’re in community with other people who have different problems than you. And so it’s like, you know, if we think about our problems, it’s like and then we hear somebody else’s, it’s like, And I I’ve reminded myself of this so many times, and it’s helpful. At the end of the day, I would sure take my problems home before I want theirs. Because there’s always somebody who doesn’t it’s not to say they have it worse than you. But it’s like if you can think of yourself, put yourself in their shoes. Yeah. You’re healthy? Yes, you’re a widow. But if you’re healthy, and this other person now has a chronic illness. Maybe they even had cancer themselves and their spouse died. I bet you you would take your problems home with you instead of theirs.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Even financials, some of those are left with with nothing. Some of those are left with nothing. And it’s so hard. I have to I find it really hard. To to say to these ladies that it’s okay. It’s just money. You can regardless of your age, you can do something. You can create an income for yourself. So it really breaks my heart and I see this woman with so much potential. So much potential, and they just fold and say, well, I can’t do anything. I’m I’m gonna live on benefits for the rest of my life, and I and I and I’m living with my son in his basement. I’ve got a client that that started she was living in the basement of her daughter’s boyfriend. So her daughter was living as a boyfriend. She was living in the basement when she’s been when we started working together. And she’s now bought her own house. Because she put a big old panties on we worked together and and we worked through, What was keeping her stuck in the basement? And to not focus on the basement, but focus on getting a job, what can she do? We would employ her. And as it turns out, she loves crafts. She loves sewing. She loves all that. So she’s working at the local casino. In the uniform department and she laughs it. She’s doing all the sign repairs and the thought that she laughs it. But that enabled her to buy her own house, which she never saw living in a basement.

Victoria Volk: And on the flip side of that, you could have all the money in the world. Mhmm. And you could have four, five children, three children, or however many children, or b, have a blended family, and everybody’s fighting, and you have all of that stress and hurting. Yeah. And then your kids hate you because you didn’t give them what they wanted. They aren’t speaking to you anymore. I mean, this is a thing when I’m talking about other people’s problems. It’s like we would always take our own for the most part.

Denise Dielwart: Always always always Yeah. Always. And, you know, our story is unique to us. Your story, your grief journey is unique to you. There’s no cookie cutter way of doing it. You can’t say, well, just do this and, you know, you know, like the five stages of grief, goodness me. Go through the stage then and say, now you’re over here. No, grief is messy. It’s it’s it’s all over the place. You can’t just say, well, oh, okay.
You’re in the anger stage now?

Victoria Volk: There actually are no stages of grief. I know. I know.

Denise Dielwart: There are no stages of grief. That’s what I’m saying. Miss

Victoria Volk: I actually had Elizabeth Keebler Ross. Ross’ son, Ken Ross, on my podcast.

Denise Dielwart: Oh, really? Yes.

Victoria Volk: And we talked about that. And, you know, her work was about people who have been diagnosed with a terminal illness.

Denise Dielwart: Like, sure.

Victoria Volk: It was, you know, but it is in Paul culture, like

Denise Dielwart: It’s the golden I’m here. I am in Australia, and everybody it’s the golden standard for grievance. She wrote her dad book on on deaf and dying in the sixties. And everybody goes, oh, you bet, you know, it’s the five stages of treatment. I’ve even heard people refer to going through COVID. It’s like the five stages of grief. And I just oh my goodness. Oh, I I was on a podcast or something and somebody said, yeah, you know, briefly screaming in in in in in COVID and, you know, the blah blah blah. I forget what it was, but all I remember them saying is, It’s like we’re going through the five stages of Greece. You know, we’re getting angry and we’re getting Wow. Have misunderstood. That is because they’re you keep the they are no fast. They’re honest edges. I mean, if you Google the fast stages of grief. She can even come up with a seven stages of grief.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. If Like I said, it’s I think it’s it’s something that has really propelled her work, which is wonderful because her work was so much more than just the research that

Denise Dielwart: she has. Like,

Victoria Volk: her life, she led an incredible life, and I’m not discounting anything that she did and remarkable. I mean, I the stories of working with you know, in the child the work that she did with children, cancer patients. And she was a trendsetter. She was a trailblazer. And I think that’s what it is. I think she kinda blazes the trail of the deep emotional impact of big change

Denise Dielwart: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Loss of health, cancer diagnosis. Right? Like and, yes, you’re gonna feel those things, but Yeah. And I think, you know, society, I think, is really just like, it gave them something to latch on to and run with, and I think that’s kind of what happened. And and they have trademarked it because, of course, it’s their business too.
Right? Like

Denise Dielwart: Yeah. It’s

Victoria Volk: she has an empire of her own and and a legacy that is kind of been built with the five stages of grief. I’ll actually link to Ken Ross’s episode in your

Denise Dielwart: Oh, that’d be great. Yeah. It’d be great. Because, you know, When she when she wrote the fast edges of grief, it was for people that were diagnosed with an illness. Mhmm. And, yes, you do go through all of that. The disbelief, the anger that eventually get to acceptance. But when you actually die when you when you’ve lost somebody, I don’t think you ever acceptance is a very strong word. You never accept the fact that they’re gone or that they’ve died. Don’t even learn to live with such. You heal yourself. You grow yourself. And you you have them been walking next to you all the time. They’re always there.

Victoria Volk: I think your point of perspective of it and your point of view and how you look at it changes. Totally. And that’s when you know that you’ve done some healing. When you can look at it differently.

Denise Dielwart: And you’re not crying when you think about them. You’re not crying when at birthdays. You’re not crying at the anniversaries. You’re actually laughing. You know that you’ve helped.
Mhmm. And you’re looking back with love and not with pain.

Victoria Volk: And it’s possible. Talking about before. We serve

Denise Dielwart: Absolutely. Possible. Yes. It is so possible.

Victoria Volk: It’s not like a cut, you know, that you just cover with a band aid and, you know, and it’s gonna it’s eventually, it’s gonna start oozing again, which it could. Right? Like, it’s a you know, that wound can be opened again. And again, because life is gonna continue to life.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: You’re always gonna have another heartache. Always. What’s your rebound? What’s your bounce back?

Denise Dielwart: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: No. It’s that’s what improves when you work on yourself.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah. It’s in a work. It is self it’s working on yourself. It’s it’s having and having a a growth mindset. And you know, oh, you got a growth mindset.
But a growth mindset, there’s two months that you can either have a fixed mindset or a growth mindset. When you’ve got a growth mindset, and I would say both you and I have got a growth mindset because it’s it’s not we don’t just go but that’s who I am and that’s what I do. That’s having a fixed mindset. It’s just what it is. I’m a widow.
I’ve lost my child, whatever whatever and and having that stuck identity. Now here’s the thing. When we identify as let’s take a widow, for example, I’m a widow. You’ve just boxed yourself into that into that identity. And why is it so easy to do after we lose our husbands is because we lose our identity. We’re not our wife anymore. Oh, but that’s right. I’m a widow now, so we put the widow head on. And with that comes a lot of I I call it the puppy dog look. When people go, oh, I’m so sorry and they get this puppy dog look. Oh, I didn’t realize you were, were you? I’m still getting it fifteen years later. Yeah. I’ve had a a I’ve built a house recently and I had a pool put in and all the rest of them. All the trades people, the tradesman, came. Yeah. The guys that came. We’d say, oh, you know, did you wanna run it by your husband first or, you know, I No. No. I don’t have a husband. Oh, you do most. No. My mother. Oh, I’m so sorry. Oh, I didn’t know. Well, of course, you didn’t know. You don’t you don’t know who I am. Mhmm. But even now, you get that because the word a widow has got these darker energies and connotations around it that you’re a widow and that you need to grieve for the rest of your life. It wasn’t long ago when women were wearing black. They had to wear black for, like, twelve months or something. Because they were in mourning. There’s only a widow. So it wasn’t the it was like what maybe a hundred years ago? Seventy five or a hundred years ago? If you lost your husband, you dressed in black. Black. Stockings are black. You were just in black as she wore in morning.

Victoria Volk: Who would love to go back in time and just see how because I I do think that the ancestors of the past knew how to grieve better than typically we do.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah. Yeah. They gave themselves permission to feel. They’re up to down as society and felt that they could have fought to do that. In today’s world, we can’t do that.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. To put the suit right back on after two weeks, get it there.

Denise Dielwart: March Older adults. Older adults. Older adults.

Victoria Volk: And you might get ten days of bereavement time? You just might.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah. If you’re lucky. If you’re lucky. And then it’s like, oh, why aren’t you coming into work today? Or because I’m No. No. Well, you’re we’re even times over. Mhmm. No. I’ve had I’ve had wood outside of head warnings after the ten days of bereavement time that they’re going to lose their job. And that’s it’s why a lot of them do the work because they know that they have to keep their work. They have to keep the income coming in. And that’s the main reason why why they they they wanna move forward. And then they realize that when we start really get and they get to all the other stuff that’s beneath that. And suddenly suddenly, they’re starting businesses and they’re doing other things that they never thought all grand. Doing? Yeah. We can

Victoria Volk: see what’s possible for ourselves when we are just continue to wear the veil of grief over our faces.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah. We can’t. We can’t. And it’s okay to wear that veil for a while. But don’t unpack and lovely. When we unpack and lift it, that we that we we take that identity on, we identify as that person.

Victoria Volk: So what is your grief taught you? It’s told me that this is

Denise Dielwart: a gift in grief, an absolute gift. And what is that gift? The gift is ourselves. It’s our own personal healing. It’s our own finding and rediscovering who we are. It’s also told me to be as a widow, talking as a widow, it’s taught me to be independent, but not that independent that I don’t ask for help. That is such a hard thing for for us woman to do is to ask somebody to help us because we say you say our husband’s doing stuff. That we didn’t have to ask for. So it’s taught me to actually put my hand up and say I need help. Or pay somebody to do it for you. Don’t try and do it on your own. So it’s taught me to not be that strong person that just salches on. And that was something that in my own healing journey, I It was a limiting belief that I didn’t even know that I had. It was a deep seated belief. I’m an only child, so I’ve got no siblings. I did ballet’s child and my mother and my father boss used to say, you know, practice makes perfect. So just keep practicing practice packs perfect. And then, of course, if I didn’t get it quite right or, you know, I did in a step foot or something and I didn’t get what I wanted to do, I then would set your soldier on. It’s okay. Remember practice max post perfect just soldier on? It sounds innocent, doesn’t it this mom encouraging me. But it was only when I went in deep within myself. Then I mean, why do I push myself so much? Why does everything have to be just right? And then I was like, my arm moment goes, oh my god. I’m still that little girl practicing to be perfect and soldiering on. That’s the deep inner work. And that’s what keeps us stuck in our grief. It keeps us stuck in our life because it’s not just the grief. The grief is grief is grief is grief is packed on on, you know, I lost my father.
I lost my mother. But those griefs, I didn’t even allow myself to grief. There’s losses. I was out

Victoria Volk: in the past.

Denise Dielwart: I was my father died a week before my eighteenth birthday. He was forty seven. Wow. He had a he had a massive stroke. So, grieved him a bit. Everybody was saying, oh, he’s so young and I’m going, what? He’s forty seven. He’s old. It’s sort of a bad one. I’m like, wow. He was so young. But so I lost lost my my father and then I lost my mother young as well. But I still had my family intact. I had Mark and I had the kids. Yes.
I miss them. Yes. They were my parents. But somehow, I just didn’t feel it until mark and god, and then that was the god. Wow. Because it’s a different loss.

Victoria Volk: Well, and that’s what happens with a a deep loss is that it brings up everything before it.

Denise Dielwart: I know. It’s I I always say it’s grief is like a magnifying glass. Just boom. This is your life. And if we don’t address what’s coming up for us, we manifest disease disease. We manifest illness. I had a beautiful client who found out after her husband passed away that that he had an affair, that he was having an affair. And that all the money that she thought she had, he had spent on this other woman. She had four thousand dollars and that was she was a school teacher she had four thousand dollars and that was from her salary. That was it. But her her drive to heal and to do it quickly, was that she had breast cancer that was in remission. And she knew that if she went down that rabbit hole of stress and the grief and everything that that that comes with it is a chance that your breast cancer will come back. Plus, she was so angry with him. She wanted to kill him, although he was already dead. I remember his name to me. He wasn’t dead. I would have killed him. I mean, laugh about that man, but you know, it it it’s it’s against that the betrayal and not being able to address that. She was, what, three months into her grief January when we started working. Now, four weeks, four weeks when we started working together. And that’s early. That’s really early.

Victoria Volk: But it’s never too soon and it’s

Denise Dielwart: It’s never too soon. And this is what, you know, I have some people to isn’t too soon? Never too soon. Never too soon

Victoria Volk: or too late. No. Yeah.

Denise Dielwart: On the other spectrum, I’ve got a head of beautiful lady. Those fifteen years. She had seen I think she had about four or five therapists, she even had a psychiatrist, She was getting sicker and sicker and sicker. And within the first week of us working together, she went, oh my goodness. I’m not crying anymore. She was still crying after fifteen years. And that’s because we get stuck into a kitten. We have to break those patterns and we can’t break those patterns on our own if we don’t know how. Because they said,

Victoria Volk: you did that through your life coaching certification, like, as you were going through life coaching, Erin, that’s what you would. Okay.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah. So I’m an NLP practitioner as well. So is there a lot of NLP which is neuro linguistic programming? So a lot of NLP work that I do, mhmm, is my clients as well because we’ve got a Brexit. We’ve got a we’ve got a get them to think differently.
Help to help these ladies to actually see themselves in a different way. We need to break the neural pathways. We’ve just scratched the record because it’s been me start going back and going back and going back over the same old thing. Oh, and that’s our talk therapy doesn’t work. Because when we repeat and repeat and repeat, we are building that neural pathway stronger and stronger and stronger and stronger. We have to break that neural pathway. Let’s let’s say electrical pathway in our brains. We have to bracket and we have to grow and start another one.

Victoria Volk: And it’s possible.

Denise Dielwart: It’s possible. It is new knowledge. Yeah. Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Nobody else. New app.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s just doing some it’s, you know, everybody that’s listening today, that’s here, and I know for you and for me, it’s one decision. We are ever only one decision away of a new life. Not a hundred decisions, not overwhelming decisions. It’s one decision.

Victoria Volk: Lay in decay or get up and reinvent yourself.

Denise Dielwart: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Those are the choices.

Denise Dielwart: Yes? Yep. And it’s it’s a choice. You know, we have choices we choose. We choose what what Am I gonna get out of bed today? Am I gonna stay in bed? And if that’s your if that’s your one choice you do, what are you gonna choose?

Victoria Volk: And what’s the cost? What is it costing you not? Yep. So put yourself first in this way.

Denise Dielwart: Yep.

Victoria Volk: Better questions. We have to ask yourselves better questions.

Denise Dielwart: Better questions and and and what is it? You know, when I say to to when I start working, this this this is my latest assignment, What is it costing you? And I’m so glad you brought up the cost because that’s something that nobody thinks of. We only think of cost in a monetary sense, dollar sense, but there’s such a massive cost to your health, to your relationships, to your whole life, everything. If we’re not if you’re not functioning properly, what is the cost? What is the costing you? In your in in your relationship with your with your family, your friends and family. What’s the cost?

Victoria Volk: Next. Absolutely. We’re on the same mission, my friend.

Denise Dielwart: Yes. It’s so good. You see you all?

Victoria Volk: Yes. Where can people find you if they’d love to connect with you and learn more?

Denise Dielwart: So I have my website, which I think is the best place. It’s flow grief academy dot com. And that’s where, you know, they can book a call with me. There’s a link there if they wanna have a check to book a call with me. I offer a free Sometimes it’s sixty minutes, sometimes it’s forty five minutes, sometimes it’s five minutes depending all the way. But just a free breaks recall, grief breaks recall. Just to talk about where where you are in your journey right now. What’s what’s keeping you stuck? Yeah. And if I can help you, I can help you if I can’t. We spent a good forty five minutes and an hour together. And you’ll walk away with tools, on on in in an awareness of of where you are in your journey.

Victoria Volk: And you have the podcast?

Denise Dielwart: And I have my podcast. Brief Unlocked. Yes. I have my podcast. And, yeah, I’ve also got my group. I’ve got a a Facebook group as well. All the links are on my website. That’s why I said my website is about the best to sort of to land there and have a look and to have a feel around there and click and and and so on. And of course, there’s also the academy. So for those that that feel that they want to learn how to become a grief coach, I’ve now got the academy of transformational brief coaching. So that’s where you learn all the NLP techniques, you learn how to talk, you learn how, you learn the flow method.

Victoria Volk: Wonderful. And I will put a link to your website in the show notes and to the Can Ross episode that I mentioned. And to Facebook group too, I’ll put that in the show notes as well.

Denise Dielwart: That will be great. Yeah. Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Alright. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story, Denise, and for being my guest today. And for this wonderful conversation, I I’m always happy to have people on who are on the same mission as myself. To bring awareness to grief. And that’s not just about death, but all these other things that we experience in our lives too that, you know, through the different client examples that you shared. So thank you so much for your time today. Howard Bauchner:

Denise Dielwart: Yeah, you’re so welcome. And it’s it’s such a point that you said, it’s not about grief. It’s

Victoria Volk: about life.

Denise Dielwart: Life is going to life. And we’re still alive. So it’s about life. It’s about living

Victoria Volk: and learning tools to make it the best that we can speak and then in the time that we are given.

Denise Dielwart: Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. So thank you so much for having me on. It’s been absolutely kind of like to for the for the podcast to come out and and share it with my group as well. So because like you said, it’s the awareness of of We can heal and you can heal and move forward.

Victoria Volk: Absolutely. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.

Ep 196 Angie Hanson | Chapters of Loss and a Resilient Heart

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

 

 

 

Embracing Grief with Grace: Angie Hanson’s Journey from Loss to Entrepreneurship

Grief is an unwelcome visitor that arrives at the doorsteps of our lives, often unannounced and always undesired. For some, like Angie Hanson, grief has knocked not once but multiple times, bringing along profound loss and heartache. Yet in the face of such adversity, Angie has managed to forge a path that not only honors her lost loved ones but also provides solace to others navigating their own journeys through mourning.

Angie’s story is one of remarkable resilience—a testament to the human spirit’s ability to endure and transform suffering into something meaningful. Her experiences have led her down a road less traveled: from working in banking and a taffy store learning about online business ventures, she now runs Butterflies and Halos—a greeting card company designed for those who are grieving—and co-hosts “From Loss to Light,” a podcast dedicated to sharing stories of hope after loss.

The Birth of Butterflies and Halos

The concept behind Butterflies and Halos was born from Angie’s realization that typical sympathy cards didn’t quite capture the ongoing support needed by those in mourning. After experiencing personal losses—the deaths of her toddler son, husband, brother Seth (who succumbed to a brain tumor), sister-in-law Brooke (who passed away due to alcoholism)—Angie recognized how vital it is for people in grief not just be acknowledged initially but supported throughout their entire grieving process.

Her greeting card venture offers messages that resonate more genuinely with what it means truly mourn—sometimes heartfelt; other times humorous because laughter can indeed be medicine even amidst sorrow. It challenges industry norms by advocating for acknowledgment beyond traditional timelines set by society.

From Banking To Empathy

Before tragedy reshaped her life trajectory, Angie had built a career within the banking sector—an industry known more for transactions than emotional connections. However, when faced with devastating losses consecutively—each leaving its unique scar on her heart—she pivoted towards endeavors imbued with deeper meaning centered around family values especially inspired by her daughter Gracie’s strength during tough times.

Gracie herself stands as an example of overcoming adversity; graduating college pursuing kinesiology aiming help others regain physical abilities reflects both mother-daughter duo’s dedication helping heal pain whether emotional or physical form.

Podcasting Through Pain

Together with Michelle another widow friend they started “From Loss Light” podcast explore rediscovery light after different kinds loss death divorce addiction among others becoming inspirational platform listeners find camaraderie shared experiences resilience against odds journey back towards hopefulness again book titled Chapters Resilient Heart encapsulates this narrative perfectly scheduled release May 2024 already available pre-order showcasing power storytelling healing process itself inspiration drawn trip Costa Rica current husband where realized strength lies opening up new chapters despite past closures inflicted upon us fate itself sometimes cruelly so yet never defining entirety our existence if we choose otherwise which exactly did choosing honor memories actions rather than succumbing despair alone powerful choice indeed one many could learn emulate difficult circumstances face daily basis across globe irrespective culture creed color socio-economic status universal language understood all – love remembrance perseverance face adversities life throws way time again without fail relentless pursuit happiness joy may seem elusive moments darkness eventually finds way back hearts willing open them wide enough let light shine through cracks created wounds old healed completely maybe never will entirely point isn’t forget move forward remember carry legacy forward too part ourselves forever changed encounter mortality close quarters intimately familiar contours shape absence leaves behind tangible void filled nothing else same measure value once held dear still holds true today tomorrow eternity long lasts memory alive us keeps going matter what comes next chapter waiting written pen hand ready ink flow freely page blank canvas awaits masterpiece creation patiently biding time until muse strikes chord resonates soul deeply felt core being essence captured words spoken aloud silence contemplation alike either case message clear loud unleash heart unleashing life itself fullest potential reached embraced grace given opportunity do so every single day blessed breathe air earth under feet sun sky above reminder precious gift given cherish treasure always end days come sooner later expected unexpected alike preparedness key unlocking doors future possibilities endless horizon stretches vast expanse imagination limit setting sail unknown adventures await discovery newfound purpose passion ignited flame rekindled ashes past experiences fuel fire burning bright beacon guiding ships night safe harbor refuge stormy seas tumultuous world live thrive survive testify beauty remains midst chaos confusion reign supreme ultimate victory claimed name lived well loved hard laughed often cried tears sadness turned drops wisdom gained perspective shifted priorities realigned accordance true calling found voice heard afar near touched souls kindred spirits bonded together common cause celebrate triumph over tragedy song sung chorus angels watching overhead smiling approvingly deeds done good earth reward heaven promised land dreams reality merge seamless tapestry woven threads golden silver intertwined perfection achieved mastery craft honed skill refined artistry displayed proudly gallery open viewing public private collectors aficionados connoisseurs taste discerning eye detail appreciate finer things offered sale purchase price tag attached worth measured monetary terms sentimental value priceless gem rare exquisite nature behold wonder awe inspire generations come leave lasting impression indelible mark history books annals recorded posterity sake remembering forgotten lest repeat mistakes learned lessons teach children grandchildren importance empathy compassion humanity whole greater sum parts individual contributions collective effort combined synergy effect multiplied exponentially reach far wide deep impact felt ripple waves emanating epicenter event occurred sending shockwaves reverberate echo chambers minds hearts souls awaken dormant senses alert presence moment mindful passage fleeting grasp tightly slip fingers sand hourglass counting seconds minutes hours days weeks months years decades centuries millennia eons epochs span lifetime blink cosmic scale grand scheme universe infinite expanding contracting breathing living entity conscious aware self identity separate distinct interconnected web interwoven strands fabric cosmos stitched seamlessly invisible thread binds together unity harmony balance order chaos juxtaposed side contrast highlight differences similarities paradoxical relationship exists duality dualistic approach understanding complex simplicity elegant design creator creation creature creatures inhabit dwell abide reside home planet third rock sun solar system galaxy Milky Way local group cluster supercluster Laniakea great attractor destination journey ends begins anew cycle rebirth renewal regeneration resurrection phoenix rises ashes anew stronger wiser enlightened illuminated truth knowledge wisdom imparted gifts bestowed upon worthy recipients chosen destiny fulfill prophecy foretold ancient texts scriptures holy sacred profane mundane everyday ordinary extraordinary simultaneously existing parallel dimensions alternate realities quantum mechanics physics laws govern observed phenomena natural supernatural spiritual metaphysical realms exploration curiosity leads discovery invention innovation progress advancement civilization humankind species evolve adapt overcome obstacles challenges trials tribulations tests faith courage determination resolve steadfastness tenacity grit endurance stamina persistence perseverance keep pushing boundaries limits expand horizons broaden perspectives shift paradigms break molds stereotypes labels boxes categorize define restrict confine imprison free liberate emancipate empower enable equip arm tools necessary succeed excel achieve greatness glory honor respect admiration acclaim accolades awards recognition fame fortune wealth material possessions secondary tertiary quaternary priority list topmost concern welfare wellbeing fellow man woman child animal plant mineral element periodic table elements basic building blocks constitute comprise make up everything anything possible impossible dream imagine conceive believe achieve manifest destiny stars align perfect alignment convergence synchronicity serendipity happenstance coincidence luck chance probability statistics odds favor favorable outcome result success victory win triumph conquest achievement accomplishment goal objective aim target bullseye hit mark spot on dead center middle exact precise accuracy precision sharp shooter marksman expert professional amateur novice beginner learner student teacher mentor guide leader follower team player individualist conformist nonconformist rebel revolutionary visionary prophet sage seer oracle mystic shaman healer witch doctor priest priestess cleric monk nun friar brother sister mother father uncle aunt cousin nephew niece grandfather grandmother ancestor descendant lineage heritage inheritance birthright claim stake piece pie share slice cake bread butter meat potatoes substance sustenance nourishment food thought mind body spirit soul triune trinity threefold cord strand rope chain link connection connector joint hinge pivot axis rotation revolution spin turn twist bend curve arch bridge tunnel passageway doorway entrance exit gateway portal dimension realm kingdom domain empire state nation country continent world globe Earth Gaia Terra Mother Nature Father Time Old Man Winter Spring Summer Fall Autumn Seasons Change Constant Variable Fixed Mobile Stationary Moving Dynamic Static Stagnant Fresh New Renewed Revived Restored Healed Whole Complete Integral Essential Fundamental Basic Primary Secondary Tertiary Quaternary Quintessential Ultimate Supreme Paramount Chief Principal Head Leader Captain Commander General Admiral President King Queen Monarch Sovereign Ruler Dictator Tyrant Oppressor Liberator Freedom Fighter Warrior Knight Paladin Champion Defender Protector Guardian Custodian Keeper Watcher Observer Spectator Audience Participant Actor Actress Player Performer Entertainer Artist Artisan Craftsman Craftswoman Tradesman Tradeswoman Worker Laborer Employee Employer Boss Manager Supervisor Director Executive Officer Official Representative Delegate Ambassador Emissary Envoy Agent Broker Dealer Trader Merchant Vendor Supplier Distributor Wholesaler Retailer Customer Client Patron Guest Host Hostess Innkeeper Landlord Landlady Proprietor Owner Possessor Holder Bearer Carrier Transporter Conveyancer Driver Pilot Navigator Guide Scout Pathfinder Trailblazer Pioneer Settler Colonizer Founder Creator Inventor Innovator Designer Architect Engineer Builder Constructor Fabricator Maker Manufacturer Producer Creator Originator Initiator Instigator Agitator Provocateur Troublemaker Peacemaker Mediator Arbitrator Judge Jury Executioner Punisher Avenger Redeemer Savior Messiah Prophet Seer Oracle Mystic Shaman Witch Doctor Priest Priestess Cleric Monk Nun Friar Brother Sister Mother Father Uncle Aunt Cousin Nephew Niece Grandfather Grandmother Ancestor Descendant Lineage Heritage Inheritance Birthright Claim Stake Piece Pie Share Slice Cake Bread Butter Meat Potatoes Substance Sustenance Nourishment Food Thought Mind Body Spirit Soul Triune Trinity Threefold Cord Strand Rope Chain Link Connection Connector Joint Hinge Pivot Axis Rotation Revolution Spin Turn Twist Bend Curve Arch Bridge Tunnel Passageway Doorway Entrance Exit Gateway Portal Dimension Realm Kingdom Domain Empire State Nation Country Continent World Globe Earth Gaia Terra Mother Nature Father Time Old Man Winter Spring Summer Fall Autumn Seasons Change Constant Variable Fixed Mobile Stationary Moving Dynamic Static Stagnant Fresh New Renewed Revived Restored Healed Whole Complete Integral Essential Fundamental Basic Primary Secondary Tertiary Quaternary Quintessential Ultimate Supreme Paramount Chief Principal Head Leader Captain Commander General Admiral President King Queen Monarch Sovereign Ruler Dictator Tyrant Oppressor Liberator Freedom Fighter Warrior Knight Paladin Champion Defender Protector Guardian Custodian Keeper Watcher Observer Spectator Audience Participant Actor Actress Player Performer Entertainer Artist Artisan Craftsman Craftswoman Tradesman Tradeswoman Worker Laborer Employee Employer Boss Manager Supervisor Director Executive Officer Official Representative Delegate Ambassador Emissary Envoy Agent Broker Dealer Trader Merchant Vendor Supplier Distributor Wholesaler Retailerm

Episode Transcription:

Victoria Volk: Thank you for tuning in to this week’s episode of grieving voices. Today my guest is Angie Hanson, and she shares her story of immense loss. Journey marked by the deaths of her one year old son, Garrett, her husband Jack, her brother, Seth, and her sister-in-law brook. In her own profound grief, Angie, Phones, and a mission to change the narrative around grief, to bring light into the darkest moments, and to offer genuine support to those walking the path of loss. She founded butterflies and halos in twenty twenty two a greeting card company that seeks to bridge the gap between sympathy and understanding, between condolence and companionship. Angie is also publishing her first book chapters of a resilient heart that will be published in May twenty twenty four, so it’s actually on preorder and coming out very soon as we’re recording this. And she also co hosts a podcast from Lost to Light touching on all aspects of losses and how people have found their light. Thank you so much for being here. And I love the podcast app title, and I love the book title as well. How did those come to be?

Angie Hanson: Well, honestly, for the podcast, I co-host it with a fellow widow friend of mine, Michelle, and When we started talking about doing the podcast together, we were just like, we wanted to focus on how people have found their light, you know, and through any losses because we know that losses are not just death. And we know that there’s losses from divorces, you know, drug addiction, abuse, anything, job losses, pet losses, And so we really wanted to touch on all those because and we wanted people to figure out and let us know and let our listeners know how did they find their light and it’s been so inspirational listening to how people have journeyed through their losses and they found their light and especially the people that have come through like the recovery of any drug addiction. Those are the ones that really just grab at my heart and I’m so amazed by them. So their resilience is amazing and so that kind of steps into my book title, chapters of a resilient heart. I kind of always love the name chapters. I’ve always wanted to own a bookstore named chapters. I’ve just loved that. And so I kinda had chapters of this, chapters of that. And nothing was just really settling with me. And then we actually were on a trip in Costa Rica, and we were sitting there talking about the title of the book and my husband that I’m married to now, the word resilient came up. And we were just like, well, that’s kind of everything that I embody is, you know, the resilience of my losses and what I’ve kinda you know, and what I’ve encompassed by doing what I’m doing now out there in the grief world is I’m leaning into that resilience of everybody. So there we are. My new book, chapters of a resilient heart.

Victoria Volk: I love it. What were you doing before?

Angie Hanson: Well, I actually was working in a Taffy store like saltwater Taffy. Okay. So there’s a little local store here. She’s actually an antique store and I kinda worked for her just part time doing some things, and she actually started this Taffy saltwater online Taffy company where she ships out monthly subscription boxes to people and you get Taffy, surprises every month. So I kinda learned a little bit of the online industry through her and through helping her and working for her. So that kind of just put me in motion to, you know, understand going forward with my, you know, with my business and all that. So Yeah. And then, you know, I just before my deaths, I actually worked in the banking industry. So I worked doing everything in a small bank here. So but then death happened and knocked at my front door, and I never turned back to that job.

Victoria Volk: As a way of doing that, doesn’t it?

Angie Hanson: It just Yes.

Victoria Volk: Then everything. And what were some of the questions, like, big questions you were asking yourself as you were I mean, because you’ve had a lot of loss and we’ll get to those. But, you know, what was coming up for you as you were going through this? And first of all, like, how did you even get out of bed?

Angie Hanson: You know, every day in the beginning after my I was working at the bank when my son had died. And The biggest obstacle for me was how, you know, moving forward in life and how do does that look like? And what does that look like? And it was it was very very hard, but my daughter was four at the time. And, you know, I just really leaned into wanting her to have a good life. And the life that she deserved and honoring her and, you know, just wanting her to be able to have happy fun times. And I had to figure out how that looked like and what that looked like. And so I just basically, every single day, it was, okay, you can get up today and today if you shower, perfect. Today if you just, you know, if you get to go outside and sit perfect. So the questions that I asked myself surrounding that, like, what what matters most now? Does does it working a nine to five in the banking world matter? Absolutely not. It didn’t matter to me anymore. You know, I didn’t I didn’t care. And my only kids were my family at the time.

Victoria Volk: Would you say in in some ways? I just in the conversations I’ve had over the last four years plus years of having my podcast too, it’s like, when you have other children that you have to get up for. They’re almost like you’re saving grace in a way I imagine. Is that Did you find that true for you too? Like, she was really your reason to get Yes.

Angie Hanson: Yes. And her name is Gracie. So she was she was my saving grace. And with, you know, I, you know, my husband and I, Jack, we definitely grieved differently. So he was more of a go out. We lived on an acreage. So he was more of a, let’s go outside and work work work, you know. Keep my mind occupied. Do that do that. And for me, I was just so lost. You know, I just I couldn’t think of how I could move forward. And but every morning when Gracie would come to me and I would see her, you know, I’m just like, this this is not fair for her. You know, she deserves to have this beautiful life, and so she she did. She saved me from going into a rabbit hole.

Victoria Volk: Was your son for those that, I mean, don’t know you or have never heard you speak or be on podcasts and things your son was one, Garrett was one. Was he sick? Much of that year, first year?

Angie Hanson: No. Garrett was the epitomy of health. He had just turned one, and he died six days after his first birthday. And he had just had his one year checkup on that Friday and he died on a Tuesday and he had a heart defect that went undetected. And it’s a very undetectable heart defect as well. It’s It’s got a really long name. It’s like ectopic origin of the right coronary artery. So basically his right coronary artery was kinked, And so you a person suffers sudden cardiac death in extreme arrest or extreme activity. And, you know, you’ve heard similar stories, maybe of athletes dying on a court or a football field, and that is similar to what Garrett had, and he was resting. He was sleeping. He was taking his afternoon nap when he died. And there really are no signs or symptoms, you know, because that was one of the things I had really asked our pediatrician was did I miss something? As a mom, I was just holding guilt. Did I miss something and nothing? I mean, he was He ate well. He was happy. I mean, joyful. I mean, his coloring. Everything was perfect. I mean, even the doctor was like, I don’t know how I could have missed that, you know. And we did talk to some lead cardiologists at our local children’s hospital when they said that there was nothing really that we could have we could have seen or noticed that would have show us that he was he had that.

Victoria Volk: You mentioned your your husband had he had also passed away. And so how far out was that was the loss of your husband from when you both lost your son.

Angie Hanson: Garrett died in June of two thousand six, and then about a year and a few months later in two thousand seven, my husband Jack was diagnosed with cancer. So he had melanoma when he was twenty one years old, and so he had a molt removed, you know, some invasive surgery on his arm, but it was nothing that had spread. And then, you know, we’re fifteen years later when our sun dies. And I honestly believe the stress of our sun dying, you know, ignited those cancer cells on his body again. You know? And he was trying to be the strongest for all of us and that’s who Jack was. So he was diagnosed, let’s see, fall of two thousand seven, so just a little over a year after her son had passed. And then Jack, he was diagnosed with ocular melanoma, so he had a large tumor in his eye. And it had spread through his to his liver and his brain and a spleen. So you know, at that moment, we were told, you know, Jack was diagnosed terminal. And, you know, we didn’t know how long he would have with us, but we weren’t going to not fight. So we fought and fought and fought. He did chemo radiation, all the things. And Jack battled for about sixteen months before losing his life to the cancer. So he died in February two thousand and nine, so just two and a half years after our son had died.

Victoria Volk: And your brother, Seth, and your sister-in-law like this. I know. I don’t even like, it’s not like it’s not nervous laughter, but it’s just like it’s it you can’t even wrap your head around it.

Angie Hanson: Yeah. Yeah. It’s unbelievable sometimes when, you know, own people here it for the first time it is it’s unbelievable. My brother Seth had actually been battling a brain tumor for about five years. And him and his wife, they lived on our acreage with us. So we had like a big house and a little house My brother Seth and Joey, his wife, they lived in the small house. And when Seth was first diagnosed with his brain tumor, five years prior, he I was kind of his caretaker a lot because he lived there and, you know, right there and my parents were divorced. And so, you know, they had both remarried and kinda had some younger families, but I had no problems doing that. And then once he re once he married to his wife, you know, she was able to take care of him a lot, but it was about a month after Jack had died. So in March of two thousand nine, my brother just started having some issues, some headaches, and things like that. So he had his third brain surgery on March thirteenth of two thousand and nine. And he had always bounced back from all his surgeries because he was extremely healthy. You know, he was an exercise guy and, you know, he didn’t drink nothing. And it just came back this third time with a vengeance. And two months after my husband died, my brother died, he died on April seventh two thousand nine. So, you know, just he just they removed that brain tumor that third time and they were going to end up doing some chemo and radiation once he healed from the surgery, but the tumor just came back with a vengeance. And he he just died. And it was, you know, I at that moment in my time, point in my life, I was just like, what in the hell is happening? And I was so lost because and I didn’t know who I was grieving. You know, I didn’t know if I was grieving my son or my husband or my brother. And it took a lot of hard work for me to, you know, decipher who I was grieving for and, you know, separating those griefs and you know, still raising my daughter, Gracie, and just doing all the things that I could to survive.

Victoria Volk: And how old was she at this point?

Angie Hanson: Gracie turned so she was six in February when her daddy died, and then she turned seven and March. So yeah. So, you know, in between all that, you know, she has this wonderful birthday, but Yeah. It was just I, you know, I just really, really just wanted her to have this happy life, you know. I didn’t want her to be the victim of all these deaths, you know. And I didn’t want it to define how we survived and lived our life. So I had to really work on figuring out how to maneuver that.

Victoria Volk: And what did that look like? Because for people listening, like, growing up, we had a lot of loss early in I had a lot of loss early in my life. My dad, my mom had lost her mom within the year. And so there was just it was a lot too in my growing up. But as a kid, you know, there wasn’t a lot of talk you know, and this was back, you know, late eighties, early, you know, late eighties. So what did that look like for Yeah. What did that look like with Gracie? And, like, how did you talk about it?

Angie Hanson: Yeah. You know, we I’ve always been the one to just talk about it. Let’s say their names constantly, you know, talk about them, who they were, you know, listen to stories if people would tell us just so she could know who these people were, and what kind of people they were and if we could mirror how they lived life and that would help us and it has and we we live big for these people in our lives that have died and you know, I we went to some group therapy, and it was a lot of it was four kids, her age, we went to a local organization here in Nebraska and it was called grief’s journey or Teddy Bear Hollow at the time. I guess they’ve changed her name, but And that was really helpful for Gracie because I really taught the kids how what death looked like, what what it all look like. I mean, from just the artwork that they would do to teaching them. So that was helpful. And then she did see a therapist a couple times. You know, and every time I go, the therapist honestly thought she was doing really well. And we just had a strong support system around us. And, you know, our family was hard with our family because everybody was had lost the same people.
Right? But and we are all grieving differently. And we are all grieving, you know, different people. But we were able to come together and honor all these people just the same way that we could greet them. So everybody really wrapped their arms around Gracie.
And, you know, I journaled a ton and that was my therapeutic way of dealing with some of it was journaling. And, you know, I just like I said, still every day I’d get up and I’d make sure, you know what? Gracie’s going to have a good day today. How does that look? And, you know, it’s it’s not easy. I don’t have a magic answer for people because I know people want that magic fix because but we know that grief cannot be fixed whatsoever. And It’s just, you know, time does help whether people believe it or not. Time does help. It’ll never make it go away, but it changes and it evolves. And But that’s not going to be the first year or the second year or the third year. And when you’re having compounded grief like we had, it’s, you know, it’s hard.

Victoria Volk: When did you feel like you could breathe again? Although, you did end up having another loss in the mix?

Angie Hanson: Yes. Yes. You know, I feel like after about a year, after my husband and my brother had died was when I kinda started feeling better. I was feeling more hope And I had more faith in me because I had lost a lot of my faith. And but I was I was feeling that. And I was I was seeing glimmers of light and, you know, there were things just within my life that was just feeling good, you know, and size like, okay. Okay. We’re we’re gonna be okay. This isn’t gonna be easy still, but and yeah. So that leads to my, you know, my sister-in-law, my first husband’s sister, Jack, Brooke, she died in two thousand eighteen, so nine years after her brother had died. And she died from alcoholism. You know, and so that’s our choices that we have. You know, and I talk about the choices a lot. And My sister-in-law broke was an amazing human. She loved life. She was smart. She was beautiful. She had amazing drive, but she couldn’t deal with the deaths. And she didn’t live in Nebraska. She lived in Colorado. So she was away from all of us when we were all grieving, and she was dealing with it by herself in Colorado. And she had lost her job And she turned alcohol because when she would drink, that’s when she felt the safest, and that’s when she felt the best. And, yeah, she ended up, you know, her choice was to drink. And She ended up dying from alcoholism in June of two thousand eighteen. So, you know, that that left her parents without any living children. You know? And so it’s heartbreaking. And but that’s I talk a lot about you know, my daughter, Gracie, you know, we have choices. You know, I chose to live and I chose to honor our people and brook didn’t know how to do that, you know. And it’s it’s not any shame to her. She thought she was doing what felt right because the alcohol made her feel right. She just got she just got stuck into that trap and, you know, it’s sad and unfortunate, but it doesn’t define who she was as a person at all. Because if she could have just known, she would have she would have gotten past it.

Victoria Volk: You know, if and if she would have been grieving maybe with the family and had that support system around her to to witness other people and who could hold her to Exactly. To support her.

Angie Hanson: Exactly. It’s yeah. It’s it’s it’s really really sad. And so it’s like I said, it’s it’s all our choices that we have, and we really honestly just have to decide every day, how we’re going to move forward each and every day, putting one foot in front of the other, and it’s not going to be easy. We’re gonna falter. You know, we’re gonna turned to maybe stuff that makes us feel better and but we have to continue to journey forward healthy and positive.

Victoria Volk: And how is a gracie how is gracie adjusted into young adulthood now?

Angie Hanson: Yes. She actually just graduated college. So, Gracie’s now twenty two, and she just graduated college. And she’s doing amazing and I feel like with her she honestly has such a good head on her shoulders. And, you know, I think she’s just learned by watching. You know, that’s You know, I just always kinda tell her, you know, you can you can do whatever you want. You you know, we can be whoever we want. We can strive to do amazing things, be good. And I think she’s really just kind of taken those and really just become an amazing young lady. And she’s she’s we still honor and we still talk about our people, you know, we we giggle, and we laugh, and we tell stories, you know, now all the time about them and we support everything that our family members met to us and what they brought to the table for us, you know, the all our our grief has turned into this big gigantic bubble of, I don’t know, purpose and love, I feel like

Victoria Volk: What did your daughter choose to go into?

Angie Hanson: She is she got her degree in Kinesiology. So it’s sports medicine, basically. And so she wants to do, like, medical device sales. She wants to give people abilities to walk again, you know, use their arms again, things like that, whatever that looks like,

Victoria Volk: to take action in their lives. Right?

Angie Hanson: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, to move. So, yeah, she’s so she’s home with us.
It’s been a blessing because, you know, she was gone for four years. And now and she went out of state and she was fourteen hours away from us when she went. So she graduated high school in twenty twenty era, so she really didn’t have a normal graduation. And then she graduated just now four years later So now she’s back home and it’s so fun to have in our home.

Victoria Volk: So when did this greeting card company spark come up?

Angie Hanson: You know what, it was probably the end of twenty twenty one I am remarried now to my husband’s chance. And, you know, I would sit there and talk to him and just tell him, you know, the greeting cards you know, greeting cards are simple. They’re an inexpensive, simple gesture to support a friend. And I was just tired of seeing all the with deepest sympathy. I’m so sorry for your loss greeting cards. As well as intended as they are, they don’t hold any value in my in my eyes, you know. It’s it’s it’s an easy out for people. So I’m just like, why can’t we say something like this? So the very first card I had come up with was I don’t know what to say. Let’s go eat one of those damn casseroles. You know, so that’s what I would give to my friend who maybe had just lost her spouse. You know, I’m not going to give her with deepest sympathy card. And I just really wanted to figure out how we could change the narrative around grief and change the stigma that grief shows up in cards and, you know, at the stores, at the, you know, all the hallmarks. And I’m not bashing hallmark whatsoever. They have some wonderful cards, but they don’t have people that understand what griefers feel like. And so I came up with a list. I have about well, I have a hundred and sixty cards. And right now, and they are mostly all grief related. I do not call my cards sympathy cards because I feel like sympathy is something we give. The first few weeks after someone dies. And, you know, that’s the sympathy and understanding. And then moving forward, are we going to show up for our friends, weeks, months, years later, if we could send a card to our friend once a month. You know, just acknowledging their grief still and, you know, telling them that they are supported, I mean, That is what I wish I had. Would have had one I was going through the depths of the grief. If I was having a really crappy day, I’d walk out to my mailbox and if I had a card that just said, I’m thinking of you or some of the funny ones that I have, you know, I just wish that I would’ve had that. But I mean, that’s gonna change the whole day for your friend because they’re gonna be like, wow. Angie’s thinking of me again, and that means the world to me that I’m not alone in my grief, that people still are acknowledging this. And that’s my whole vision with this, you know. And like I said, it’s simple. It’s not going to fix them. Because like I said before, we can’t fix grief. It’s going to just support them and acknowledge it. And that’s all we want. We want to to still even years later. I still love hearing stories about my people. You know, if people will tell me in with writing this book, I’ve had people reach out to me that used to work with my late husband, Jack, and they’ve bought the book, and they’re just like, Angie, we are so proud of you, and they’ll tell me funny stories about Jack. And, you know, that’s fifty Jack’s spent on fifteen years, and I just think that’s absolutely amazing that people are doing that. And that’s what I want with my cards even.

Victoria Volk: Did you not feel supported?

Angie Hanson: I felt supported, yes, but I just think even back in two thousand six, when Garrett had died? People still didn’t talk about grief a lot. You know, I just feel like the whole movement of changing the narrative around grief has happened within the past couple years. Cool. Yeah. I you know, and I’m seeing this, you know, this brief community that, you know, where I even met you on, you know, on this socials, I just feel like, It’s evolving. And, you know, we are changing it. And I think, no, people I had support from my friends. Yes. But I just don’t think people knew. And they didn’t know if it was acceptable to still a month later or two months later or three months later, to send me a card. You know? I don’t think that they knew that or if it was acceptable.

Victoria Volk: And Or even to share the like, the dark humor

Angie Hanson: Exactly. Out

Victoria Volk: of, like, the visceral thing. Right? Yeah.

Angie Hanson: Yeah. And, you know, and then it It’s just and it’s okay, you know, and it’s I just want people to know that it’s okay to do that. But I just feel like even like you said, you know, when you had had your losses, you know, even back in the eighties, I mean, it was really taboo to really talk about stuff like that. You weren’t supposed to bring that up. You know, we honored and we kinda started our own after our son had died honoring him. But then, you know, here we are. Like I said, I think with the social media world that we’re living in, finding these grief communities where we are at and starting to change the narratives is so important. And I’ll give you an example of like, the sympathy versus the empathy, there’s a greeting card, and I this is nothing against anybody. I’ve kinda talked to them about it, but there’s a The Greeting Card Association, and they hold what is called the Louie Awards. And the Louis Awards is like the Oscars for greeting cards. So you submit, you pay per card to submit your cards. Well, so they only have they have so many different categories, but they have a sympathy category. And they don’t have an empathy category, but I submitted to the sympathy category. And so then I didn’t none of my cards won, which is fine. But then we received the feedback from the cards. And one of the comments that I received was very disturbing to me because they said, the cards are okay, but they make me feel uncomfortable.

Victoria Volk: So Then you’re uncomfortable with your grief, my friend? Yes.

Angie Hanson: And so that’s and then all of a sudden, I was just like, oh my gosh. You know what I so I actually made a real about it, like a funny real on Instagram. And that is my biggest it didn’t go viral, viral, but it went pretty close to being viral because people were astounded that this made this person feel uncomfortable, and it’s in a sympathy category. And that is why we need to change the narrative around this grief industry. You know, people need to know. This is why we can’t have people in a hallmark that have never had a loss writing or greeting cards, you know, and it’s it’s it starts. It starts right here, you know, and that’s that’s what I want to do.

Victoria Volk: You know you’re onto something special when you’re poking the bear and you’re giving a response like Right. Promise. Yeah. I actually designed a couple cards. And years ago, like, gosh, five years ago, and I put him on redbubble and, like, just randomly one day, I was like, where is this money from? So I bought the card. I was like, Yay.

Angie Hanson: That’s awesome.

Victoria Volk: I’m gonna be out there and I was, like, whatever, I’ll put it out there. Yeah. I’ve just been dabbling, but I’ve understood that too for years that people just don’t get it. And to bring some sarcasm in humor, into something that’s just so heavy. Everyone has that friend that will get it. Yes. You know what I mean? Like that it’s bringing some lightness to something that’s so heavy and you can’t even wrap your head around sometimes. Right?

Angie Hanson: Exactly. Yeah. Well, yeah. Because, like, one of them I have, you know, it’s the next person that tells me everything’s gonna happen for a reason. I’ll throw, punch him. You know, just I mean, you know, never would I do any physical harm to anybody, but you know what? My friend would she would appreciate that card, and she would, you know, she would understand it. So that’s definitely yeah. I I’m enjoying it. I enjoy the greeting cards.

Victoria Volk: Well, let me ask you this. So, I mean, you’ve shared a lot of, you know, backstory and how you were feeling and on supporting Gracie and all of that. But what overall has your grief taught you?

Angie Hanson: Really, you know, it goes it goes to resilience. It’s taught me that you know, we can have join happiness together that, you know, the grief and happiness can coexist. And honestly, I just it’s taught me to be obviously more empathetic. And I think through everything that I have been through, I am so amazed by the human body in our mind and what we can tell ourselves to journey through the grief, so that’s where the resilience comes in. And I don’t think somebody can be resilient if they keep on telling themselves that this is crappy. You know, it’s no fair. You know, why didn’t my person have to die? You know, if we tell ourselves negative feelings and thoughts, it’s going to be a negative journey. And you’re going to be stuck and fifteen years later, you’re still going to be stuck. But if we can tell ourselves that, you know, what we can be happy. You know, we deserve to be happy. You know, we have to have that faith and trust. And, you know what, that’s going to evolve throughout the years. And so then one year fifteen years and almost eighteen years out for my son dying, I can live an extremely happy life because that’s what I’m doing right now. And so I just think our resilience in our bodies and our mind is so powerful, powerful, and we just have to tell ourselves that we can.

Victoria Volk: When it comes to kids, when people say kids are resilient, when they’ve had losses, that’s always I’ll tell you this. It’s always rubbed me the wrong way because as kids, they don’t have a choice.

Angie Hanson: Exactly.

Victoria Volk: You know, it just I hate when people say that, oh, your kids are so resilient. They’ll bounce back.

Angie Hanson: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: And I can speak from my own experience, but you know, just knowing the grief that I’ve experienced. It has a child growing up as a grieber. It just changes over time and it’s it’s gonna show its face again and again and again and especially with loss in the future because we are human and you love and you lose. Right? And we’re taught how to acquire people and things, but not what to do when we lose them. And so you mentioned and you touched on your parents’ divorce, your son wasn’t your first loss. So you had other losses, I imagine, growing up and pet loss and probably maybe friends and moving and all of these other things. Can you speak to that a little bit and what you learned about grief growing up and maybe in hindsight what you took from those early experiences in your life.

Angie Hanson: Well, I did experience probably that my first traumatic loss was probably when I was about seven. My uncle was killed in an accident. And so I just remember that that feeling of wow, you know, and I would say, again, like, back in the day, we just didn’t talk about that. And so it was kind of hush-hush and different things. I mean, it was It was a very public accident. He was on the volunteer fire department and the rescue squad got hit by a train. And so three of the members had died and two had lived. And so it was a very public, you know, accident, but You know, we didn’t talk a lot about it. And then, you know, my grandparents died when I was younger, you know, and then my parents divorced when I the year after I graduated high school, And so through all that, I guess, I would say that I just really learned how to I guess, separate some of those losses and grief and just, like I said, I journal a lot and I read a lot and so I think separating grief and losses into what they are. So, you know, it’s okay. This is a bad accident. You know, I we can’t put blame on, you know, like, losses. I don’t like that. Like, people are like, well, why would God let this happened to your son. Why would god let this happen to your husband? Why would god let your uncle get hit by a train? You know, things like that, but God doesn’t allow that, you know. And I just he’s there for us when we when we go through these hardest things. And I guess, I just probably stuffed a lot of it sometimes when I was younger just because we were taught to do that. And so then as I grew and then as I come upon my first loss of my major loss that catapulted me into a losses that I never would ever, you know, turn back and be the same from. That’s when I really learned about what death was and how to journey through it. And I’ve learned now more so that talking about all those losses are probably the biggest thing that really helped, you know. And I just wish that we could have back in the day talked about those losses because I think it really could have changed because I’m certain that my parents divorce probably stemmed from a lot of the losses that they had endured. You know? My dad’s brother was the one that had died, so my dad didn’t deal with it. You know, they just didn’t talk about it. And so then, you know, my dad drank and then my parents got divorced and then, you know, it’s just it’s a cycle. And so how can we move forward in these losses in a healthy manner. And I guess that’s what I’ve learned to do is just do it with all our people in mind and keeping their memories alive.

Victoria Volk: Well, my next question is, one tip you would give other hurting hearts, and I would say that that’s a pretty good tip?

Angie Hanson: Yes. Yes. I would. Yeah. And I just I’ve always believed in the, you know, the choices. You know, the choices that we make. And If you’re if you’re hard if you’re really really hardening, you know, don’t don’t expect don’t expect change immediately. And I always, you know, say, you know, give grace because you’re going to have a great day one day. And then and the next day, you’re going to take a couple steps back and it’s going to take time for your heart to feel love again and normal again. And, you know, you can have it there. You know, I had love for my daughter the whole time, but I didn’t really care about the outside world as much. I didn’t care about the outside noise. And but it’s the choices that we have. So how do we choose to love and honor our people?

Victoria Volk: You had touched on a little bit about having lost your faith a little bit. And so the role of faith and spirituality through your grieving process. I know that was a huge aspect of my grief story. Can you share a little bit about what that looked like and how that changed over time?

Angie Hanson: Yeah. I talked it was really after my brother had died that I had lost all faith, you know. And I couldn’t understand how this was happening, why this was happening again and again, and you know, and you always hear the saying, why do all the good ones go? You you know? And I kind of just slowly journaled about it. I went to a group that was a Christian led group, and that is really what changed a lot for me. Is because I learned about death and how it is in the bible and God. And then I started putting my faith back into him. And I learned, like I said earlier, that you know, we are all built a certain way, you know. And so for my son to be born with a heart defect, you know, that was that’s just something that happened. And, you know, my husband and my brother are both with cancer. You know, they it’s just their genetic disposition. You know, they environmental things. We don’t know, but what I know is what I’ve where I’m at today is not because I am the strongest human in the world. It’s because I’ve been carried and something bigger than me is holding me through all this and they’re guiding me and I have to believe that and I have to believe that all my people are safe But for me, I just really leaned into reading a lot about it and just trying to understand what faith and death and god all meant.

Victoria Volk: What was the toll of grief on your health? Over the years. Do you recognize you did you have physical symptoms? Like, how did the grief manifest for you? Because in grief recovery, which is program I adore and love and change my life, but we talk about nerves, short term energy relieving behavior. So you were talking about alcohol and just how people use these outside things to cope. And so how did neither grateful manifest in physical symptoms or will turn to these things to help us to feel better for a short period of time. So what how did the grief manifest for you?

Angie Hanson: I would say that, you know, I you know, I after our son’s death, I really lost a lot of weight, you know. That was my kind of my health thing I just didn’t wanna eat, I didn’t care. After my husband had died and my brother died, you know, I just I didn’t really I didn’t turn to anything, you know, I didn’t drink a a lot more than I had normally. You know, I had drinks But my health wise, I just I just honestly like I said, I guess I just didn’t eat a lot, so I lost weight that way. But I was really just I think my mind was the biggest recovery thing that I needed to figure out how to be present, you know. And I had to be whole for Gracie. And I honestly didn’t turn to anything negative for myself. And I didn’t find I don’t have an addictive personality, so I don’t turn to, you know, that. But mine was mostly all my mind work. And how could I stay healthy? And the healthiest way I could be would be to work on my mind? And that was journaling and reading and, you know, I mean, traveling. Gracie and I traveled quite a bit. You know, we would go visit friends and just be in present. So, yeah, for me, I didn’t really turned to anything that hindered me from my process.

Victoria Volk: Well, even exercise can be a stirb. So it can be good things too.

Angie Hanson: Yes. Exactly. All of a sudden. Yeah. And, you know, I did not I did not turn to work. That was one thing I slacked on. You know, it’s just but yeah. Just I don’t know. Yeah. There’s not I don’t have anything. That’s that’s one of the things that I’ve kind of always been wondered about. You know, maybe I need a deep dive into that a little bit more, you know, to go back into those corners of my mind and really see about what I did. That’d probably be a good exercise for me.

Victoria Volk: Because there’s these myths of grief. Right? It’s keep busy, grief alone. You know, don’t feel bad. You know, there’s so many time heals all wounds, which you touched on time, but it’s not it’s not the time itself. It’s the action that you take within the time. You know, that Exactly. Matters. And it sounds like you were, you know, surviving but yet also doing what you knew to get more control or what have you of your thoughts and your thought process and it’s so easy to downward spiral, to allow your thoughts to downward spiral and Yeah. Take it You know, I just

Angie Hanson: I always you know, I had a friend of mine. She had lost her husband two years prior to me losing my first husband, Jack, and, you know, she was a she was a good resource for me, but when I would have bad days, you know, we would and we would do this with each other, we would just be like, okay. You’re allowed to have this one bad day. But tomorrow, you’re going to get up and you’re going to, you know, you’re going to change your thought process. And you’re gonna change, you know, your mind and everything. And, you know, just giving ourselves that permission to be because I feel like people, honestly, like, they want to do something to fix it. Even even ourselves as grievers, we want to we want to feel how we felt before. We want to feel the same way and, you know, we just can’t. But if we can allow ourselves that time to grieve or just to be or just to not do a single thing. Like I said, if if you wanna lay in bed all day for a day, lay in bed all day, there’s nothing wrong with that. And I feel that that is part of the whole healing aspect of grief is doing that. But you know what, then she’d say, she would check on me the next day. Okay, Angie. How are you today? Are you going to get up and shower and go? And yes, I would. And, you know, I, you know, just and also just yet, like you said, exercising and being outside with nature, but I just think giving ourselves permission to be and not rush. And don’t rush the grief process either. You know, you we it takes time. And I feel like a lot of people rush it.

Victoria Volk: Well, we are a you know, let’s just take a shot, let’s take a pill, let’s,

Angie Hanson: you know, let’s call Amazon, you know.

Victoria Volk: Herb side, like, we are such an impatient society. It is redontulous. Yes.

Angie Hanson: Yes. I agree a hundred percent.

Victoria Volk: How would you describe the ANGI before loss versus the ANGI after loss?

Angie Hanson: Well, that’s a good question. I would say that I was way more outgoing. I was way more friendly. And I and don’t get me wrong. I’m a very outgoing friendly person now, but it’s evolved and changed. I would it was easier for me to be friend. You know, now I feel like I don’t be be friend people easily and I think they don’t because I think I have this aura around me and people get scared of grief. So if they know about my story or any loss that I’ve had. They kinda run or turn their head or they just don’t wanna dive deep because I think they think it’s contagious, but it’s not but I’ve had a lot of strange situations with that. But I was I was very just more very laid back, more more easy going, and like I said, more friendly. And now I just I get a little bit more anxious. I, you know, I really deep dive in who’s going to be my friend and who’s going to be in my life. And that’s maybe something like of a protectant part of me, like, I don’t wanna lose anymore people. So if I if I don’t bring all these people in my life, maybe I won’t lose them. So, yeah, I would I would say I have a lot I have a lot more anxiety in that aspect and Yeah. I wish I had some of my oh, my my free thoughts that I used to have, you know, because now I don’t have those free thoughts as much. And I’ve just kind of adapted all my like I said, I’m I still have all those feelings. I’m still a nice person because I am, but they’ve all adapted differently than what I was before

Victoria Volk: I resonate with that a lot. I don’t know if it’s my resting bitch face or my aura, but probably my aura too, but I tend to I tend to poke the bear when I’m, you know, meeting people. And it’s it’s because It’s like you don’t have time for bullshit. Like, let’s cut the bullshit. Let’s cut the surface level talk. Like, tell me your deepest desires and your dreams. Like, what do you want what do you wanna do with your life? Like, like, those are the kind of the questions that I wanna talk about, and it’s like, it’s really hard to find those people, like the deep thinkers and the, you know, the thought provoking questions and the insightful you know, people, you know. And I think because we get so caught up in this, the mundane daily life, you know, the hamster wheel. We don’t even stop to think about the things that ignited us when we were kids. Right? Like, just actually one day just over Mother’s Day weekend. There was three little girls, and the semi truck just chewed its horn, and the girl’s just so kitty and just yeah, just like this. And it was so funny because I never shared that with anybody. And as I was sitting there, I was thinking, gosh. I was taken back. I was having some ice cream with my girls or seventeen and a half and six you know, fifteen already. Yeah. And I just was taking back in time in that instant to See, I saw them, like, you know, in doing that, my daughter does this still to this day when she gets excited. And Yeah. So it just took me back in time, but I don’t know where I was going with that.

Angie Hanson: Yeah. I just think it’s like, you know, the society the way society has grown and changed and evolved that, you know, we we are losing, like, you know, you the deep conversation with people. You know, it is hard to find those people that we can match up with and have those, you know, just sit there and talk about and walk away feeling just refreshed. You know, I leave a lot of conversations feeling icky. You know? And I don’t I haven’t pinpointed exactly why, but like I said, I just when people when I first kind of meet them in a situation and they ask me, oh, what do you do? And I’m like, well, I you know, I have this greeting card business. Oh, that’s awesome, you know, and they’re like, what kind of cart and I, you know, I tell them and they’re I’m like, well, they’re mostly grief cards and they’re would you do that? You know? And then I’m like, well, do you have a while? No. But, you know, so then I kinda explain And then I can see their whole demeanor change. And so then I just like and then I get sad sometimes because I’m like, There’s nothing wrong with me. I’m still I’m the same person but different, but I still want to have the deep cover stations, and it doesn’t have to evolve all around me. I wanna hear all about you, you know, and so that’s yeah. So I just I feel like in society and it’s it’s kinda like the fast and go of the world that we were talking about that people people don’t wanna take the time to learn and have those deep conversations anymore. And I feel like we have to get back to that.

Victoria Volk: Well, and I think they’re afraid. I think it’s fear. Imagine what people say to me. I work with Grievers. Like, I work with Grievers, and I do energy healing, and and all this weird stuff, you know. And she might, like, do some voodoo on me or she might, like, you know, get me to, like, confess and verb verb vomit, all of my grief. You know what I mean? Like,

Angie Hanson: explain my real feelings. Right? I mean, people they’re they’re scared of their real feelings.

Victoria Volk: I had someone actually just just word vomit just let it all out in a very public place. And I felt so you know, obviously empathy for this person. Right? But I was, like, a little bit, like, What’s the word? What is the best word to describe that feeling I had?
It was refreshing. It was refreshing. That’s probably

Angie Hanson: felt the same feeling. Probably.

Victoria Volk: It’s like it there is something about giving it a voice. And, you know, I think so many of us I’m gonna get into, like, some voodoo top voodoo voodoo talk. Like a throat wound. Right? I think many people have a throat wound, you know, especially if, you know, as females particularly or young girls that grew up and, you know, be seen and not heard and don’t use your voice and or or you’re too loud or you’re too much or you’re too much of this or too much of that. And so we just kinda minimize our voice and we don’t use it. And I guess that’s been the greatest gift for me and having my podcast. And maybe you can relate is that it’s helped me find my voice in what I experienced and in sharing stories with people and meeting people like you said just sharing in community with other other grievers

Angie Hanson: Yeah. A hundred percent. I yeah. I do. I feel like when I hear stories after people talk about their stories during the podcast and, you know, and then when I listen relistened to him and I, you know, I just I take back I take away so much.
You know, I take away from that initial conversation. And then when I re listen to it, I take away more and I hear more and I hear more of what they were saying because then I can listen to more tone. Their tone of their voice and different things like that. And then I have a whole different perspective of what they are feeling and going through. And it’s absolutely amazing. I mean, that’s why I just you know, we these platforms that we’re able to utilize such as the podcasts and, you know, writing our books, you know, and even our socials, it’s sharing our stories is so huge for everybody because it is bringing out so much for so many others that they’re maybe just sitting on the sidelines and they hear the podcast and then they they read about or if we’re talking about our books, they’re like, Well, I could maybe do that, you know, so it’s sparking stuff in people. And we are, like I said earlier, we’re changing this narrative, and I feel the evolution of this really taking place. And I’m really excited for what it’s gonna do for future grievers. Because I just feel like sharing our stories however that looks, you know, even if I’ve told people before, even if you write a full book and you never publish it, that’s okay because you shared your story. You know, you shared it and that’s you shared it within yourself and that’s okay too. You don’t have to publish a book to be great. You don’t have to have a podcast to, you know, you can just sit there, but you’re you’re growing by hearing stories.

Victoria Volk: And that is a form of giving it a voice too. Yeah. And journaling. You know, I journaled I journaled since I was fourteen.

Angie Hanson: That’s awesome.

Victoria Volk: I mean, quit, you know. It’s it was my outlet very early on too. So

Angie Hanson: Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s it’s so methodic for people to be able to write down things. And I, you know, I just people are like, sometimes I’ve heard people say, well, I could never write a book. Well, no. You could write a book. Write it all out. I don’t care. Type it all out. However you want, but you don’t have to publish it. No. It’s you’re still doing the same thing I’m doing. I just excited to publish mine, and you didn’t. But we, at the end, we did the exact same thing.

Victoria Volk: That’s exactly true. Yeah. Like I said before when we started recording, it’s like, I think they people think to write a book, it’s this huge And it is a big project. Right?

Angie Hanson: And I’m

Victoria Volk: not gonna deny that or minimize that. It’s a project, but it’s not as scary as some people make it out to be. You don’t have to have a publisher, you can self publish, which there’s there’s so much free information out there I mean, actually, my tagline is Google that shit because I mean, I’ve learned so much by Googling and and I guess I’ve never been one that’s been afraid to, like, dive head first and let the rabbit hole, you know, swallow me all, but You know? I mean, that’s the fun of it. Right? Like, that’s and that reminds me of what I was telling with the story, with the little girls

Angie Hanson: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: A friend of mine I didn’t tell her about that, but she had the exact same story exact same story across two thousand miles away where she saw these two little girls and she saw them get so excited and hers she we’re in a in a box or group together and Yeah. We’ve known each other online now for, like, four plus years. But she’s one of those people, right, where we talk about stuff, like, we’re talking here, like, have deep conversations that she was, like, just never it was a reminder to me and she said to never lose that spark. Never lose that joy that you had as a little kid just seen, you know, having someone toot their horn and give you you know, and I told her my story, and it’s like, it’s like mind blowing, like, the synchronicity of that. It’s it was just a reminder again to me, you know, what brought you joy as a kid? How can you bring some more of that into your life as a grieber? In your adult life, you know. Yeah. It’s Yeah. I love that. Messages there for you. Yeah.

Angie Hanson: Yeah. I do. I absolutely love that because that’s the joy as a child is absolutely beautiful. And, yeah, we we need more of that in our adult life.

Victoria Volk: To play.

Angie Hanson: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Instead of just these schedules and these these deadlines and just the anxiety that life brings everybody if we could just let it go. And just be, that would be amazing.

Victoria Volk: So what would a day of play look like for you? Well,

Angie Hanson: you know, I’m actually gonna do it later on here. My daughter, since she’s back, we’re gonna go golfing. And so she wants to go she wants to pick up and learn golfing. And she wants us to learn how to play pick a ball. So it’s like, so, you know, it’s a beautiful day in Nebraska, finally today.I was like, you know what? Yeah. We’re gonna make time and we’re gonna go golf this afternoon. And so that’s what we’re gonna do. So today, and we’re just gonna have fun. And we’ll probably giggle because she will probably be I golf. So I do golf already, and I’m on a ladies league, but she doesn’t giggle. So we’ll probably giggle at the way she hits the ball and all that, and it’ll just be, you know, easy going. And like I said, having her home has brought so much life kind of back into our house that was missing, you know, not you know, my husband and I it’s just been the two of us and which has been great. And, you know, we’ve had an amazing four years, but having her here just brings a only different element of joy back into our house and laughter. And because she’s just you know, she’s a silly twenty two year old girl.

Victoria Volk: And the energy. Right? It’s a different energy

Angie Hanson: and Yes. Yes. And we’ve been taking she’s, you know, walks every day. So we’ve been going for walks every day and you know, it’s just it’s just been so amazing. And, you know, that’s just I’m learning to, I guess, slow down in a sense to, like, I don’t have to sit in front of my computer and do do do, you know, I guess I’ve built I’m going to build my career around my life, you know, and the way I want it to look like. So I’m able to do that right now, so that’s what we’re gonna do. And I’m celebrating that for you. Thank you.

Victoria Volk: You know? Yes. Is there anything else that you would like to share?

Angie Hanson: I really just want people to know that, you know, if you are if you are a griever and you’ve lost someone, you know, just really, just give yourself the grace that you that you deserve and do not rush your grief and your grief journey because it’s just it’s it’s yours. And you get to do it your way and you need to move through it and journey through it. So I just I really want people to honor those feelings that they’re doing as they’re grieving. And then if you’re not the griever, if you’re on the outside and you have your best buddy or anybody going through something tough. You know, meet them where they’re at and don’t try to rush ahead of them, you know, speak their people’s names, you know, just acknowledge them. Don’t try to fix them. And, you know, you will be the best support system that they need. And just always continue to reach out to them even if they tell you no twenty five times. You know, the twenty sixth time they’ll say, Thank you for reaching out to me. I needed to hear you today.

Victoria Volk: And just by twenty six of Angie’s cards and then Yeah. And then I’m like,

Angie Hanson: That will get you through two years.

Victoria Volk: Twenty six. Yeah. Yes. Definitely. So where can people find your cards and connect with you?

Angie Hanson: On socials, Facebook and Instagram. I’m at butterflies and halos, and then my website is butterflies and halos dot com. All my cards are there. I’m also if you’re an Etsy person and prefer that, I’m on Etsy as well, butterflies and halos. And you can order my cards there. I have some other stationery products as some stickers and notebooks. And my book will be on there for sale here probably within the next week or so. And, yeah, Everything’s butterflies and halos.

Victoria Volk: How does that mean?

Angie Hanson: Oh, the well, butterflies are assigned my sign that I’ve had since my son died. And so and then the butterfly is just the the symbolism of a butterfly and the trans formation that they make and the spiritual transformation that they make is something that I hold really dear. And then the halos are for all my people. So that have diets. And so I just I kinda meshed them together for butterflies and halos. Yeah. I love it. And then for anybody that is on here, if you use the code podcast fifteen, you can get fifteen percent off your first order.

Victoria Volk: Is it all caps, lower caps?

Angie Hanson: All caps podcast fifteen. Yep. And then that can be that’s accessible on Etsy or my website.

Victoria Volk: And I will add that to the show notes as well. Yeah. Yeah. How long is that good for?

Angie Hanson: It’s it’s never ending.

Victoria Volk: Okay.

Angie Hanson: Yep. Yep. So they can they can use it whenever.

Victoria Volk: Right. Thank you so much, Angie. For sure. You. For having this deep dive conversation with me for the work that you’re doing in this movement that you and I are both part of, I think, is is moving the needle.
Yeah. Moving the needle by little.

Angie Hanson: Yeah. Yeah. We’ll get there. But I appreciate everything you’re doing as well, and I appreciate being on here and sharing and just the beautiful conversation. And then, hopefully, we can have you on our podcast here in the next few months, and that would be amazing.

Victoria Volk: I would love that. Yeah. Thank you. Invitation. Yeah.
So thank you again for being

Angie Hanson: my guest. Yes. Thank you.

Victoria Volk: And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.

 

 

Ep 193 Scott Forrester | Coping with Widowhood: A Story of 50+ Years of Love, Loss, and Learning

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY: 

In the quiet aftermath of a personal storm, Scott Forrester found solace and strength in the Feldenkrais method. His journey is not just about physical recovery; it’s a poignant narrative of resilience amid life’s harshest trials – loss, grief, and reinvention.

Forrester’s story began with an accident that challenged conventional healing methods. Physical therapy couldn’t mend what was broken within him. Then he realized that our struggles often lie deeper than muscle or bone—nestle in the intricate dance between mind and body.

Through Feldenkrais, Forrester teaches us to listen—to really listen—to our bodies whispers before they become screams. This method isn’t confined to those seeking physical relief; it extends its embrace to anyone yearning for emotional liberation from grief’s heavy chains.

His tale weaves through his own tapestry of loss—of loved ones who have passed on but whose presence still guide him like unseen stars guiding sailors home. He speaks candidly about embracing life as a way to honor those we’ve lost rather than being anchored by their absence.

But this isn’t just a story about coping with sorrow—it’s also one of profound love. Over 50 years married, Forrester learned that marriage thrives on more than promises—it blossoms through unspoken understandings, shared growth, and enduring friendship.

Scott Forrester stands as a testament to living fully—not despite losses—but because of them, transforming pain into purposeful strides forward…into awareness…into hope.

RESOURCES:
Book | 
The Aware Athlete
The Faldenkrais Method

CONNECT:
Website
Facebook
Instagram

_______

NEED HELP?

  • National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
  • Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor

If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.

CONNECT WITH VICTORIA: 

Unlocking the Healing Power of Movement: The Feldenkrais Method with Scott Forrester

In today’s fast-paced world, we often overlook the deep connection between our physical bodies and emotional health. But what if there was a way to harness this connection to heal both body and soul? Enter the Feldenkrais method—a transformative approach to somatic education that has helped countless individuals improve bodily function and awareness without strain.

A Personal Journey Through Injury to Insight

Our guest at Grieving Voices, Scott Forrester, didn’t just stumble upon the Feldenkrais method; it found him in a time of need. After falling off a roof and facing an unsatisfactory recovery through traditional physical therapy, he embarked on a quest for healing that led him straight to discovering how muscular issues are often deeply intertwined with our nervous system.

Forrester’s revelation—that changing movement patterns could vastly improve overall function—didn’t just apply to his injury recovery. It became clear that these principles were universal, extending their reach into managing grief and emotional trauma as well.

Beyond Physical Therapy: Embracing Life Through Movement

The beauty of the Feldenkrais method lies in its accessibility. It doesn’t matter if you’re an athlete striving for peak performance or someone grappling with neurological challenges—the practice is designed for all who wish to explore their potential through gentle movements and heightened self-awareness.

Scott Forrester’s own journey through grief after losing his mother, beloved dog Stealth, and wife Leanne serves as a poignant testament to these practices’ power. He shares how accepting death isn’t about giving up but rather embracing life more fully—a profound way of honoring those we have lost while continuing our paths forward.

Somatic Wisdom: Listening To Your Body’s Story

When practicing Feldenkrais exercises—whether in group Awareness Through Movement sessions or one-on-one Functional Integration—you embark on an intimate dialogue with your body. This conversation can reveal much about your habitual patterns not only physically but emotionally too.

As Forrester delves into his personal experiences—from adventurous hikes with Stealth to navigating life as a widower—he uncovers lessons learned from love itself. His insights touch upon marriage longevity rooted in communication, understanding, empathy—and most importantly mutual growth beyond individual interests.

From Loss Comes Learning: Writing As Reflection And Connection

Filling days teaching Feldenkrais classes or writing provides structure amid loss for many like Scott Forrester. However, it also opens avenues for new connections—friendships that blossom from shared experiences of grief or simply seeking companionship after significant changes in one’s life narrative.

Marriage requires nurturing akin to tending a garden—it thrives on attention paid not only when convenient but consistently over time. Reflecting on over 50 years together with Lee offers invaluable perspectives on partnership dynamics where unresolved issues might be accepted rather than conquered—an echo of John Gottman’s teachings emphasizing collaboration over conflict resolution alone.

Choosing someone who will walk beside you—in sickness and health—is no trivial decision; values such as family history play roles larger than anticipated initially yet resonate throughout shared lives together.

Aging With Agency: The Philanthropic Method In Action

Discussing philanthropy usually conjures images of generosity toward others—but what about self-care? Actively caring for oneself ensures we remain capable supporters within our communities—as demonstrated by engaging activities like hiking regardless of age milestones looming ahead.

If intrigued by Scott Forrester’s journey or interested in exploring how the Feldenkrais method may enrich your own path towards wellness (both physically & emotionally), consider visiting awareathlete.com where resources abound including access points towards works like “The Aware Athlete.”

Remember—if movement is medicine then let us learn its language fluently so we may converse heartily with every step taken toward healing ourselves wholly!

Episode Transcription:

Victoria Volk: Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, whatever time it is you’re listening. Welcome to grieving voices. Today, my guest is Scott Forrester. He is an author, a Felden Price practitioner. Yep. Podcaster, when licensed physical therapist assistant, and I can’t believe if I pronounced that correctly. Is that right?

Scott Forrester: That’s correct. Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Is there anything let’s start there. What is a filled in Christ practitioner?

Scott Forrester: Alright. So a filled in Christ practitioner. That’s a form whenever you have a method that gets named after someone, you have to put up with the name. So that is a method of somatic ed education. Pulmonic education, soma refers to the living body. So it’s a form of learning with or through the body. Okay? It’s so I’m actually teaching a class a couple classes a week. It’s taught in two different modes. Awareness removal and is their group class name. And functional integration is the name for the one on one work. It’s the same work, but just done either verbally or verbally and with a hand.

Victoria Volk: Okay. Can you just explain a little bit, like, what it looks like?

Scott Forrester: What it looks like?

Victoria Volk: Yeah. Okay.

Scott Forrester: So in the classes, these particular classes I’ve been doing since January and almost none of the movement lessons have been the same. There is really only one lesson that’s how you move your attention around and within yourself. But so the last the last lesson, we do them on Wednesdays and Fridays. So on Wednesday, we did a lesson. And the the class is really good. The people I had Friday, I knew know how to take care of themselves. So we did a lesson that that involved one person at the end of the lesson, being able to put surprise themselves, being able to put their foot on their head. And we did that with no straining, no stretching. And then so we did that on the on the right side. Then on the left side, we did hardly any movements, and that was even better because we we used a lot of visualization after you know how to do it on one side, then you also know how to visualize it. And then Some of the lessons have involved no movement at all. If you are watching them, we’ve done lessons where you just cover the eyes. And improve your vision because the eyes are doing things while they’re covered. And so there’s a tremendous variety. A lot of the lessons focus on most of most of the ones we’ve been doing are awareness for movement, focusing on awareness. But they have a heavy emphasis on function also. So you end up with a lot of movement surprises.

Victoria Volk: So people unless you’re watching this, you can’t see my face. And so I am, like, A little bit and, you know, kinda turning my head to the side because it’s fascinating to me. I find it fascinating and interesting. And I can tell you, like, because I’m an energy worker. I Uh-huh. Bio field tuning with Jeff or raki master and and all that. And I can tell you just living where I live heavily, like, old German country. Right? Like, I’m, like, the unicorn around here. Like so at least I feel like it. Although Yeah. I know that there’s probably people that are interested in the Wu’s stuff like that. And are kind of in the closet of it too. Right? Like, they’re interested in these things that you can’t really explain

Scott Forrester: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: But you have to just experience. And that’s what I’m gathering from you is that this is just something that you have to experience and that before you can really wrap your head around it. Is that

Scott Forrester: it is? It is well, it is. Philadelphia wrote a number of books and so you can’t because he was a scientist, you can, if you understand the book, books, you can absorb his contextual framework. So you could kind of understand it that way. His book, body, and material behavior, he wrote in the forties. And so it has archaic language in it. And if you read the introduction to that and pay attention to that, then you might be able to understand what he’s talking about. Baby.

Victoria Volk: How did you land into this practice?

Scott Forrester: Okay. So this This has made a huge difference in my life. I fell off a roof once. And I only fell seven feet, but it was far enough to break it ankle. Your body weight is seven feet, if you’re not dull lines, man, quite quite right, is still some force. And I eventually had that surgically repaired that was successful. But in the meantime, I had developed a movement pattern with my knee that wouldn’t allow me to run very well any any more. That was about twenty five years ago. So I went to physical therapy and they made it worse. Yeah. I knew they made it worse, so I didn’t go back. And very sincere, nice people. Then I went to another physical therapist who was an ultra runner. He’s about my age, actually. And he had won his age group in the Lenville one hundred more than once. And he was familiar withothelin Christ, but he wasn’t a practitioner, didn’t understand everything about it, but he did apply some some of it. And I had been very interested in the in the method. I I tried to research his online at that course, the in twenty five years, what you can do online is increase dramatically. But So I became very interested in it, and I sensed that, for instance, the first person who made me worse, physical therapy, And I I am a physical therapist assistant. So and I’ve worked in a quite a bit, so I understand it. And and if you wanna get very generalized, every physical therapist is different. But if you wanna really generalize it, strengthen stretch. So if you have a problem, you just have to strengthen the muscles around the area. Well, I already had been relatively at the same time. This is not astounding, but I I was able to deadlift four hundred pounds. So obviously, I was strong enough to run. But the problem was all your movement patterns are not in the muscles. Talk about muscle memory. We understand that, but the memory is not in muscles. It’s in the nervous system. And in the central nervous system, in the brain, that’s where you have your your your movement patterns. That’s where they reside. And you may have even had the experience of forgetting how to do something But as soon as you pick up your hands to do it, you can remember how to do it. Anyway, So that was the first thing. But the real problem was just change your movement pattern a little bit. Now you could do it. I could go into detail about that, but The way we do things, this is profound because it doesn’t just apply to to your body, but the way we do things, the quality of the way we do them. The details of how we do of how we do what we do our makeup profile differs. So this is something that you would have to experience. However, it does have a huge conceptual framework, and you could understand that. The the difficulty with doing it just from the books is you don’t understand the person at first. So you don’t quite understand I could say a sentence. And if you don’t understand the context of what I’d say, words are always always limited. So you always not so you get very little out of it and unless you understand what the person is saying. And he writes in sentences that are paragraph long. So Yes. You could do it either way, but but you do essentially have to experience it. And even in the training, I was myself and others were getting about halfway through it, and we were saying, what if what is this? Eventually, you understand. But it is, you have to experience it. So it became something that with somatic education is making big inroads into therapy too. Felding Christ, didn’t want to. His method is so large as to become unwieldy in in some ways. So you’ve heard the somatic experiencing maybe Peter Levine and there are so many so many techniques and methods that use that. But and so if ethics and ethics can be applied exactly to that. To therapy. The beauty of what he did is that it’s it has great therapeutic yeah, advantages. But some of the some of the the results that you obtain are partly because you don’t focus on the problems, that you don’t focus on therapy. If you have a problem, if you focus on the problem, you have a problem for the rest of your life.

Victoria Volk: Welcome to politics. Right?

Scott Forrester: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Focus on all the problems all the time. And Yeah. Everybody’s always talking about the problems, but there’s Where are we talking about?

Scott Forrester: It applies to everything. So I Yeah. Made a profound difference in in my life and even how I respond to. Everything. In my class, I I’ve had the greatest compliment lately because people are beginning to say, you know, my whole this is influencing and changing my whole life because I approached life in a different way. You could either I don’t know. I often say you could either do what you always do and do what I what I tell you to. Or you could do what’s right for you and and learn how to take care of yourself and how to move from that place.

Victoria Volk: So who who who is this for? Who is a good candidate for?

Scott Forrester: Okay. So if you if you want to advertise it, as you know, you need to well, you probably know the difficulty of advertising what you’re doing in your location. You suggested that Yeah. But if if so if you want to advertise it, you kind of have to appeal to someone. Some particular group because the problem with it is that it can help anybody that you’re familiar with basketball?

Victoria Volk: Mhmm.

Scott Forrester: So everybody knows Michael Jordan. But just before him was doctor Jay. Julius Irving.

Victoria Volk: Okay.

Scott Forrester: Fellow Christ worked with him. Oh, he he worked with ballet dancers. He worked with children with cerebral palsy because you’re working with the nervous system. And So it it really applies to it would apply So a lot of people that think they’re doing fine and are moving through life. Maybe they’re in in the maybe they’re fairly young, thirties and forties, they probably wouldn’t be interested because they think they’re doing fine. They could improve them tremendously. But if you had cerebral palsy, or if you have neurological difficulties or if you were an artist or an athlete and you have some reason that you really want to improve your skill level, the skill level that resides in your nervous system. Then it’s for you. So the problem is it could help anybody.

Victoria Volk: Well, and what I know about emotions and grief and trauma is that these emotions like that these heavy emotions that we our bodies remember. Right? Our bodies hold on to

Scott Forrester: That’s exactly

Victoria Volk: He’s in the nervous system.

Scott Forrester: Right. Right. So you know if you’re doing energy work. Mhmm. There’s nothing. Fell in Christ to him. There was not a mind body connection. They’re exactly the same thing.

Victoria Volk: Oh.

Scott Forrester: So if if you have a that’s a huge difference between saying a healthy mind and a healthy body. So if what you were saying, everything that happens to us is hell in the body. Well, that’s because it’s Also, all held in the emotions and in the mind. It is held it tells everywhere in the person. Mhmm. So Franklin Christ did feel that working with the with movement was the fastest way to access the entire person. Yeah.

Victoria Volk: There’s a question that’s kinda noodling at me. And so I’m gonna ask, is this, like, similar to like, Thai chis, like chigong, like those types of practices?

Scott Forrester: Yes and no.

Victoria Volk: Okay.

Scott Forrester: It was very similar in in that it, you know, it it emphasizes the mind mindfulness the same way.

Victoria Volk: Okay.

Scott Forrester: It’s very dissimilar in that in Chaiti, you learn a formula and you can improve and improve and improve and improve and prove in that form. Falcon Christ had hundreds. There’s even literally thousands of blessings. Over a thousand. So you come into the class. If you understand that you’re doing the same lesson every time, but it has a different flavor, would you like to improve your eyesight? Would you like to improve your balance, whatever? It was it’s heavily it’s unique and that it’s heavily oriented towards function, but also in that every time you come in, you’ll be doing something non habitual.

Victoria Volk: I have a question. Have you seen people with conditions? Maybe even rare that have seen improvements in their condition using this method.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. Yes, you have. I’ve worked with people who had late stage cerebral palsy and and so on. So yes.

Victoria Volk: Or near blindedness.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. So I think it’s David Webber that develops filled in Christ knew everything in his side. He knew all the all the scientists, and he was a black belt at Juno, so he understood martial arts, and he even understood them to the extent that he wrote a book on the Physics of Juno. So okay. So I lost my check. What was the question again?

Victoria Volk: Vision. Near blind.

Scott Forrester: Vision. Yeah. So that means he knew a number of things about vision. I think it was stated whether that’s developed a lot of exercises there. And they’re I can’t remember the source, but there’s a case study on a person who was legally blind. And he decided to do these eye exercises. And he was prescribed, you know, you should you should do them an hour, maybe even two hours a day. He did him thirteen hours a day. And he went from legally blind to perfectly acceptable vision.

Victoria Volk: I just got goosebumps.

Scott Forrester: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: I am just fascinated with this falling Christ’s guy. So

Scott Forrester: He had completely destroyed knees. And he was born in nineteen o four, lived till nineteen eighty four. So back when he did that as a twenty year old, they didn’t have the knee surgery we do now. But he figured out how to rehabilitate the function of the knees enough that he could practice you. Which Mhmm. With with no meniscus and no legacies. Pretty astoundingly.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. You would go to a physician, maybe, like, that’s impossible. Don’t do that. You’ll just hurt yourself further, you know?

Scott Forrester: Yeah. He was he was cognitively and physically in the body, very aware of what he couldn’t couldn’t and couldn’t do. You know what? He could move fine if he moved in certain ways, which we can, and not fine if he moved in other ways. He had to he had to move within the stability of what he could do, but he understood that and felt that.

Victoria Volk: It’s almost like connecting with the energy within the body to understand it and manipulate it where it can be manipulated, but then almost surrender to it where it can’t be.

Scott Forrester: Yes.

Victoria Volk: That’s a good question.

Scott Forrester: That’s very understandable. That’s very profound. If I I’ll probably butcher the quote, but Find your greatest weakness and surrender to it. Mhmm. He said most people spend all their life either covering up their weaknesses or trying to improve them. Sent those that surrendered to their weaknesses are rare. And he said they actually lead every generation. So obviously, you can understand why he would say that. He has no knees. No functional knees. But in surrendering to that, he found what he could do. He found his whole person. So that applies really to everything.

Victoria Volk: Well, I’m gonna have to look into this guy. He sounds like a true trailblazer in Renegade for his time And

Scott Forrester: He was a pioneer in neuroplasticity when that term wasn’t even used. And there was a brain researcher, Aileen Bakirida, I think, came to some of his classes. Her husband, Paul, Aker Reed Award, won a Nobel Prize in the I believe he won a Nobel Prize in Nobel Prize in Nobel Plastic Research. I think he was the man who took a blind man and hooked sensors to his tongue and hooked that up to a camera. And the man could see. Yeah. He’s done that with us. He he proves a lot of things, sensory substitution that way. You’ve done it done it with a person with a very poor vestibular system. And and he put a helmet on the head so that he could I don’t think he may have used the camera there too. I’m not sure. But then then the in fact, in that case, the person eventually didn’t need the device. Because the brain had been trained to be able to stand in. So

Victoria Volk: Well, listen.

Scott Forrester: So anyway, when when his wife came to the classes, she said, you are able to do more here practically. And our research is allowing us to do in the lab.

Victoria Volk: Well, this is fascinating. And I do want to get to your grief story

Scott Forrester: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: But so I’m sorry I kind of derailed the conversation in my curiosity. But I think it really is a good context into how it changed your life because you’ve got a lot of grief experiences and a lot of loss

Scott Forrester: Oh, in one year. Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. You were already practicing this, I imagine, for years. Yes.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. Yeah. It made made a big difference to my wife and I. I was finishing PTA school, and I ran by a laundromat where my wife was doing the clothes. And we I had thought about doing this, but it was very expensive In terms of you have to not work for seven weeks a year, you have to find a place to live in another city for that long. Then you have to come up with a tuition and and it takes four years, so it’s quite a commitment. And but there was no training offered near us. So I kinda shut down.

Victoria Volk: You’re talking about the folding price?

Scott Forrester: Yes. And so I I stopped in to see my wife, and she pulls out an ad paper. In the line of math there. And there wasn’t there was a train that’s gonna start up within a reasonable distance. And she said, you have to do this. And as difficult as it was, her that was her attitude clear through the training. So it did make a difference with this.

Victoria Volk: So tell us about your what followed?

Scott Forrester: So I I Our training started in twenty ten, finished in twenty fourteen, so it was much later in In twenty twenty two, in August, we celebrated our fiftieth anniversary. And we came back. So in September, it was, you know, it’s almost twenty twenty three. And two weeks or so after we got back. Yeah. I she had I worked in physical therapy and she had a very tight calf. And I said, you need to go to the doctor right now. So she did and she had a blood clot, but and and it was removed. A lot forty five centimeters. And in the meantime, at at the same time that they, you know, did a scan for the blood clot, they did scan at the aggregate and the physician came back and said, you have stage forecast for her. And So early in twenty twenty three, she began chemotherapy.

Victoria Volk: And

Scott Forrester: she after about three treatments, she had a clean scan. So we were We were happy about that, but it was in the lymph system that it came roaring back. And after three treatments has sensitive as she was to that. She they couldn’t give her anymore because her white blood cell count was way too low. And eventually, they she tried radiation and another form of chemo that was probably not as effective. But, anyway, so my dog whom was not only a family member, I almost got a telepathic relationship with him. The only dog I’d ever had, I got over at sixty. You know what I mean? And he was very important to both my wife and myself. I won’t go into downward, but he died in August. And we’re both here for his last last day. Well, I didn’t say that my mother died January. She was ninety nine, so it was expected. She was very highly functional until the last couple months of life. So my mother died in January, my dog. My wife and I both sat there for his last day, and he was kind of a pioneer for us because he lived his he lived his life every day. And he had wait. He’d had a couple surgeries and they couldn’t do any more for him. And their mask came back on his mouth and other places. And I was building my son’s house down in Chris’ Valley, and it was hot out there. And so I left him with my wife for a few days. And I came back. And she said, yeah. You’ve gotta take him with you. He’s more of us here. So as high as it was, is uncomfortable for for him as it was. He wanted to be out there with me. And, anyway, in in August, he could no longer he he reached the day where his fever came back and and he couldn’t get up. He could barely walk, and he just wanted to sit and look. And he couldn’t get in the car anymore. And he never liked me to pick him up unless he was really weak. And but he was afraid to get in the car because he tried it a couple of times and couldn’t couldn’t make the jump anymore. So I picked him up. He was finishing and he scratched me. Yeah. But once he was in the car, it was fine. And then when he got out of the when we reached the vet, he likes vet because they’ve always helped him. So he hopped down the car and walked in on his own. And then they took him into the bathroom and put it IV in his in his, like, and he was fine with that. He he done it before and then and he and then Dave would do something, you know, do a surgery. He’d come back and be fine. So he was fine with that. He walked in on his own, walked to the waiting room where my wife and I sat with him. And laid down because that’s all I could do. Energy was gone. And then they gave the the shot that you know, slug him down, and they gave him another shot that stopped his heart, but it is extremely peaceful. And so that was a role model for my wife and I. She actually she actually lived a year after the diagnosis. She she made it through September of twenty twenty three. And and passed in in the very first hours of October first. My wife had gone through quite a bit of trauma. And my mom died when she was nine, dad’s bad enough, but her dad was an alcoholic. And so he married another alcoholic. And so her stepmother hated her and and hated her father because she was a terrific alcoholic and didn’t know how to love anybody. Yeah. So she grew up with first the loss of her mother and then people saying, you know, you you gotta be strong for your father. Right? Yeah. That’s backwards. That’s so and through your early teenage years and and later teenage years, you hope. In a family that’s not your family. So she grew up highly sensitive doing due to needing to know every night. Her father was a stable alcoholic. He held a job. But you need to know what Moody’s coming home in every every night. Mhmm. And so she actually suffered from depression quite a bit. And then that last year, she was never depressed. We were both really accepting of death, which is a good place to be because in our culture, we just kinda put it off into a corner. I’ll deal with that in fifteen years. Mhmm. It really could enhance life. To understand it. Anyway, so she would she never had time for that and was never depressed. And she lived every single day Even when she was getting weaker, she got up and did something that was life every day. And that was true for her last day. My son visited and he brought pictures from the grandkids, and she held a nice video call with them. She was fully into that call. And, no, ma’am. I didn’t know. She didn’t know. That was her last day. She was magnificent. And she’s my hero. She did not want to spend one minute in a facility, and she didn’t And and the timing was the whole thing was amazing because I spent a little bit of extra money to have some help. To finish to finish John’s house. And I couldn’t be in two places at once, but when I got it finished, that’s when she really needed vehicle. So it’s a huge it’s it’s a bigger thing than you think. But, you know, in the first week, when you lose somebody that closely, you’re holding their hands when they take their last breath, which was beautiful. But when you do that, a presence tends to be really strong, especially for the first week or two. And I got up one morning, he’s walking down the hall, and I It’s a knowing. I related to hearing your voice. She said, I will always be with you, Scott. Not too much later. I was sitting down at the breakfast table and I said, how was it with you? What are you arguing? She said, Sky is so beautiful. So wonderful. Wonderful. Actually, the word, whether anybody thinks that’s a voice or not, some people understand some it’s a great truth because it says that life is sacred. The right way to grieve is to remember someone as your hero and embrace life. You know, you could think and it’s reasonable to think that the right way to agree with us to be unhappy. But counter intuitively, it’s not the the loss is bigger than you think. Because if you’re orientated correctly and you live day by day, you think you can deal with it. But you find there’s more layers to it because she wanted to be a lie a wife that was actually her goal. It’s not everybody’s goal. Wife, a mother, and a grandmother. And she did that her entire life. I matter when she was maybe eighteen. We spent a lot of time together when she was nineteen. She was married when we were twenty. So her entire lifer, she did that. And that’s all I did or don’t either. You live day by day or do it fine. And then you find out the the loss in the hole is bigger and you thought and you find yourself, you know, searching for something to fill that. So I recently hadn’t aware of this. That you have to relate to the past in a certain way. If you relate to the past as the beautiful blessings that you had, the fun times you had, or as the things that weren’t right but what you learned from them. You’re on you’re on a good path. As soon as you say, as soon as you begin to grasp and say, I wish I had that back. It brings you down, like, falling off a building. So never go there. The first time I had that realization, it was kinda like oh, that’s a good realization. I understand that. I see that. The second time I was, like, I’m never going there again. Then I understand. It was beautiful, but I I still am in touch with her. But after seven months, you have to be very quiet and just I could still ask for questions and feel and answer, but So I felt in Christ this thing about that was the beginning of really developing some awareness within yourself. You can use a method to improve your function, or as you were talking about, you can move that use that method to actually notice exactly how you are functioning. There are places that you can go to as a method that improve your your sense of yourself, your standing, your connection with the ground, just how you feel it in in an overall way. You talk about posture. There’s there’s some ideas about posture and the method. But there’s a certain way of standing in which you’re totally comfortable. And I couldn’t quite go there. I thought that we had experienced a whole year of both joy and grief together, and I realized that there was even another level that we could have experience. So you can tell that in your body, you’re not quite ready to go to that place. After you’ve experienced it and know what it is. And then later you are. Yeah. The whole idea of self and self awareness has been expanding. You know, throughout these entire last ten years.

Victoria Volk: What’s your wife’s name?

Scott Forrester: Namely. But her name was always Leanne and was her Italy.

Victoria Volk: And your dog?

Scott Forrester: Stealth.

Victoria Volk: What time was he hold? Was he?

Scott Forrester: He was a lab shepherd mix, and he didn’t quite make thirteen years. He if I had a dog now, I would have known their limits, but he’s a very strong, strong dog. So I felt like he could do anything I could do. So when he was about five, I took him on a hike through the desert from Walker Pass to Kennedy Meadows. Mhmm. I was lost one day too. So we were probably out there by sixty miles. And, yeah, he was totally exhausted when we got done. He couldn’t even walk very far. I mean, we’d really get through it out there. And my wife picked him up and, you know, picked us up. Actually, Actually, she I was a kennady medalist store, and she was up to the campground. I didn’t know that. And I I couldn’t get in touch with her cell phones for her working. And eventually, I had somebody I could have walked up there. But still is good. So I’m gonna leave him with the campground. I I was gonna leave him with the campground manager, but it said he took us up there. That’s how tired stealth was as strong and tough as he was carrying his backpack and and always leading the way. And I’ve taken him on hikes through the wind river range in Wyoming. And Well, one one day we did from Snora Pass to Echo Pass or whatever it was in the Sierra. And we did thirty one miles in one day. The last part of it, it was actually getting dark. So you’re walking up the steepest part of it to ten thousand five hundred feet. The rock is part of it. And you can’t see the trail. So every time you go to a rocky spot, you can’t find the trail. Because now you have to negotiate out of this Rocky area. Which way did it go? My GPS did that for us. But it took a minute to find the trail each time we were crossing streams at night twenty hours and he was right up right here. I had no estimate for a vehicle. Yeah. Yeah. So Yeah. We did some big adventures together. And then finally, he got to the place where I wouldn’t do that with him anymore. It it didn’t have quite the stamina for it. It was too dangerous for him.

Victoria Volk: So growing up, had you had any loss experiences? And and how did how did what did you learn about grief growing up?

Scott Forrester: Okay. So basically, no. I mean, we’re We’re it was pretty isolated from everything. But I both of my grandmothers did die. We weren’t there for it. You know, further passing or anything. We they both had funerals. And then that was way back in my childhood. The first one, my my dad’s mother. The second one was was actually actually after I got married, and she was way up in her nineties. And she passed the way she wanted to. So those are significant. But then my father died when I was I think I was young, but I was forty three. So it’s not a childhood loss. But that one was in such great contrast to to my wife later thirty years later because that one I couldn’t accept it.
And I couldn’t even say that my father had died. I couldn’t use that word. He was so strong. And you know, to a kid he seemed invulnerable and then he had Parkinson’s disease in every a piece at a time what he could do. Went away. I couldn’t even say Parkinson’s for years. And, you know, five years later, I could I had trouble accepting it. And for thirty years, he’s always been there. With me. That was a completely different experience.

Victoria Volk: I noticed you didn’t even mention that in what as one of your losses.

Scott Forrester: No. I I was pretty much focusing on on what happened within the space of the year as pretty dramatic. And I think my wife knew she knew how much she meant to me. Even more than I knew how much I meant to her. She knew what what it would be like. And I think she guided me through a lot of it. But, yeah, there’s a thirty year difference between those two and in the intensity of you losing three, actually four. In one year because I I’m by myself, so I adopted another dog. And my son said, that he would help with it. But in reality, it turned out he couldn’t. And so I found that I couldn’t really take care of but I kept him long enough. He was potty trained, and I kept him long enough that we found a really good home for it.

Victoria Volk: Why do you think you couldn’t take care of him?

Scott Forrester: Because I did what I usually what I wanted to do was get a dog who is full of energy. And so he was like a border collie, and he was only about seven months old. I could take care of him. But if I did, that if I were retired and didn’t have anything to do, I could take care of because it took the entire day. I had to take him for a life.
If I took him to run for two hours, he’d go quite okay kind of for one day. But I couldn’t do that every day. So I had to take him for, like, five walks a day. And and I had to keep an e eagle eye on him to make sure that the project training was holding, and I had to do all kinds of things like that. So I could have taken care of, but I wouldn’t have any relationship with people outside the home. You know, drive to bed there. So it was either the dog and you and you stay in the house with a dog for the rest of your life or, you know, you can you can work with other people.

Victoria Volk: Is there a part of you that feels it was maybe just too soon?

Scott Forrester: To seem to get the dog? No. I just I just couldn’t. I don’t I don’t have a fancy yard. And I don’t have anybody having your wife at home that can watch them while you go to work and while you do something.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. That’s yeah.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. I couldn’t I just didn’t have the ability to do it.

Victoria Volk: So earlier you mentioned you just kind of made a statement about trying to fill the void. I that those weren’t your words, but to that effect, trying to fill the space and time and

Scott Forrester: Not not so much the time. I’ve been pretty busy with with the space.

Victoria Volk: I’m actually trying to keep busy. I suppose is maybe the good a good way to say it. Like, you’ve been trying to keep busy. Is

Scott Forrester: that No. No. I’m just no. It’s easy for me to keep busy. I I have things that I wanna write a book. I’ve read written a couple of books. I wanna write a book. About this. I think there’s some useful things in it. And at least there’s some at least your story needs to be told.

Victoria Volk: What were some of the things though that you found that you have found yourself doing since your wife passed away that Oh. Are out of character lead.

Scott Forrester: Well, she loved to cook, and I had no interest in it. So I I don’t know how to cook. So now you have to take that up, and she gave me some hits before she passed, and I’ve been feeding myself quite well. But so now you have to do that. And you find out that it took a lot more time to do some of the things that you thought. So now I’m it’s only me here, so it’s not a big deal, but I’m cleaning the house. I’m teaching my classes. I am I want to write that book. Trying to find time for that. Eventually switching over the cell phone, you wouldn’t believe how much trouble that was. I keep sending you the bills for the person who’s not there anymore in front of the plan and switching insurance and say doing all the paperwork and she paid the bills, so I had to figure out what she was doing there. And then my son needs help. I have two sons. One’s an engineer in Arizona. The other one is not this ability. And he needs some help. Although, I’m proud of him. He’s needing a little bit less as things go. But so I had to figure out his finances and that was and we have to make trips down to Social Security, and then that does get you know, you have too bad. I was totally busy with that stuff for a long time. So during the during these classes, I put quite a bit of work into you’re doing two a week and I’ve I’ve actually kept them so I don’t do the same class every week every twice a week. I could. But so I put quite a bit. Excuse me. I didn’t. I can’t think. I’ve been doing so many things. I can’t I can’t really

Victoria Volk: do you feel like now, like, the dust is settled a little bit? You’ve gotten a lot of that administrative stuff that, obviously, when some when your spouse passes, there’s so much paperwork and you’d kinda hit on that a little bit. Do you feel like now is when you you finally maybe have time to, like, sit with how you’re feeling and sit with your grief and kind of maybe just now being able to do that? Yeah.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. It’s getting a little bit more like that. So something that’s, excuse me, have been crying. I mean, crying a little bit.

Victoria Volk: Okay.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. I wanna get back to the right. See, I still my time will be filled. I I if I have enough time, I would like to get back into painting. But something that takes a good chunk out of my day every day is that, you know, I have to get outside I have to do.
I have a friend that finished a hundred mile race not too long ago, and it was one with a big cut off. And so I get together with her and we’ll do eight, ten, twelve miles. And, you know, you know, we’ll go up we We did Smith rock the loop around that the other day for about eight miles, and it has something in it. They called Missy Ridge, which is just a big steep climb. And then we can jog back down a lot. But every day, so I want to spend if I’m really busy, I only get outside for half an hour. But I I like to spend an hour or two every day and, you know, to start the day doing something that’s movement or exercise. And I do a lot of movement preparing for the lessons. But see there’s that is so important to me that I make time for it. So there’s an if you if you go outside and do heart rate training for two hours, it takes more than that. You had to make sure you had to do whatever things are necessary to prepare for it. Then you’re a little bit more tired, sometimes even requiring a nap. So that’s a foundation to my day. Because if I do live to ninety or ninety five or my like my mother about a hundred, I wanna be fully functional at that age. So

Victoria Volk: Don’t we all?

Scott Forrester: I don’t have any trouble being being busy. But, yes, the other day, I was able to sit down in the sun, and there’s been a I mean, seven days a week, I’m busy. I’ll go out and see my son Christmas valley here. But I have had a couple times where it’s been very wonderful to sit outside and just reflect. In terms of filling the void, it’s a it’s a little embarrassing. But I found myself. So I I didn’t want to just put myself in a closet, turn the light out. So I found myself reaching out in a lot of different ways and making trying to make new connections, which I have. And that’s good. I found myself making new friends on Facebook and trying to find people that live in the area. And it was not obvious to me. Believe it or not that I was searching for somebody to fill that gap. And because it’s not what I was doing, but it was. It’s not what I was doing, but it was in there. It’s all I’ve ever known. So you’re I talked about a habit that’s in the body and an entire person. Yeah. I I went to the store the other day. This has been a little while ago. All of a sudden, that became kind of clear that happened in that in that looking error. And I actually kinda cried because isn’t that obvious that you would do that? Right? It wasn’t completely obvious. It became obvious. So I’ve I I think I’ve kind of indicated that all my friends are twenty years younger. Not all my friends, but but my close friends, Laura is twenty years younger, but a friend that may visit that I used to run with in Cheyenne. He’s twenty years younger. My friend Carlos, and his and his partner, Monica, are twenty years younger. Somebody I did go to visit some people at at the senior center the other day on invitation. And I like the people great. But I couldn’t go there again.

Victoria Volk: Well, I think what I mean, just based on how physically active you are, Yeah. And your background knowledge and stuff, is it accurate to say that you are a bit of a unicorn in the population of your peers?

Scott Forrester: I guess so. I mean

Victoria Volk: And that I

Scott Forrester: don’t think there are

Victoria Volk: other people are is not where you are.

Scott Forrester: They don’t do that some of these things that I do.

Victoria Volk: Exactly. And

Scott Forrester: so I love to talk to.

Victoria Volk: It’s how do we improve our lives, how do we better ourselves, it’s by surrounding ourselves with people who are doing what we who are where we want to be. Right? Yeah.

Scott Forrester: Right.

Victoria Volk: Where we’re at? Does was your wife very active with you as well?

Scott Forrester: No. She was always physically weaker than I was on it. She on her honeymoon, we hike eight miles in and eight miles back to the old mill the crystal mill in Colorado. And on the way out, I care I used to carry her backpack. She was only twenty, but she supported me.

Victoria Volk: And that’s what I was gonna say too is, but she never took that she allowed you to be you fully you?

Scott Forrester: She did. She supported me so much. In fact, there was a time when I I get lost all the time. She was a navigator. But I do have some sense about where I am when I’m when I’m outside.
Mhmm. And but I had no experience to do this, and I was backing very light. And by the time I just lost a couple days.

Victoria Volk: A couple days?

Scott Forrester: Anyway, I I just lost a lot out there. And Let’s see. So it was between fifteen and twenty years ago that I decided I was going to be in the wind river range and go from Green River lakes campground to Big Sandy, which has totally changed now. And they were keeping it kind of wilderness, so they weren’t a lot of sides out there. So you can imagine that was, you know, maybe seventy eight miles or something.
It turned out to be more than that for me. I didn’t know if I didn’t receive it again because what happened was An hour in, I dropped my GPS at the stream, and it was supposed to be waterproof, but it dropped it to a deep part of the stream. And It took me a lot of fishing out there. It worked. It was full of water. It worked well enough for me to find the trail one time. And then it never worked yet. So I’m out there with no GPS. I did have good maps in a compass. And I thought maybe I should go back. And then I thought, well, I might never have the opportunity to do this again, so I’ll go a little farther.

Victoria Volk: Man, you got gumption.

Scott Forrester: So I I know she would be at the campground for a better hour or so, I mean, probably that day. So I could have gone back, but I didn’t. And five days later, I walked out and I’d lost so much weight that she didn’t recognize me. I made a statement.

Victoria Volk: You ran you ran out of food, I take it.

Scott Forrester: I still had two or three hundred calories left, but I had

Victoria Volk: Futch hell from her when you finally met up with her.

Scott Forrester: Well, when I yeah. When I approached enough to talk, you know, but because I was walking towards her, I’m wearing the same clothes, but she didn’t recognize me. And I’m I’m but anyway, that night before the seasons were changing in the melons. I had a one pound sleeping bag. And It was getting too cold. I tried to get out of the wind because I didn’t have a tent. I brought my rain poncho that I strung up over myself, which actually protected me from the rain, but not the wind. And last night, I tried to hike the ice boulders there. My bag wasn’t doing it. I was I was shivering through the night. My my shoes were icy and frosty. In the next morning when I put them on. So I I wasn’t I was thinking, you know, if it gets more be more than shivery, I’m gonna have to get up and start doing jumping checks or something. Anyway, we made it through the night. But that night, I was I was sitting up and I felt her beside me. And I said, she’s here. No. She’s not here. I kept going back and forth before I she’s not here, but she is. And when I the next day, It took me four hours to find the trail. It went through a rocky area, and Anyway, so when I got out, she told me that she had taken, and this is not something she did all the time. She had taken my wallet and held it held it closer to her to her heart and projected herself out. Out beside me. She knew she knew that it was getting it was getting cold where she was. So she knew. So she wasn’t very active, but she she supported me in so many ways.

Victoria Volk: So you could have died. Were you not were you not fearful? Were you not? Like, what was going through your mind?

Scott Forrester: Their last day, I had let myself get dehydrated or and and the lack of food, which you know, you can go coin ways without food. I I knew that, but I didn’t know it in my body yet. In five days, it’s enough to get hungry if you’re not used to what you’re doing, not prepared. Right?

Victoria Volk: Well, when you start hallucinating?

Scott Forrester: I wasn’t to that point, but I was to the point where I didn’t have any extra energy to think to to think about worrying. Mhmm. So I was I was just pretty pretty steady to just kinda do what you go back, come back. I make it or I, you know, I find it or I don’t. You do get to the place where you’re at where you say, oh, somebody help me.
But, yeah, I found the trail. And once I did, I was up to three or four miles an hour again.

Victoria Volk: What I’m hearing in this story is it is a a metaphor for grief. Right?

Scott Forrester: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: We’re you can feel so lost. Like, can you see the parallels of getting lost?

Scott Forrester: Oh, yeah.

Victoria Volk: Not knowing where the trail is, not like losing your path, losing your self identity?

Scott Forrester: I did lose my identity. I’ve been a husband all my wife, life. And she was my everything, and she said to me before she passed. She said she said, yeah. We both wanted her to go first because I wanted to take care of her. That’s always been the case. She was weaker physically. And Yeah. She said you you were in my rock. So you you lose that identity. It’s gone. She no longer needs my help. You’re right. And then it’s every day at a one day at a time, and so you learn and you learn new things. It is a metaphor for them. I could.

Victoria Volk: I see a book along those lines.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. I I really would like to say some things that I think will help other people because I’d like to tell her story. So you know that all my friends are twenty years younger. And I’m not I wasn’t looking for anybody. But I found somebody who I knew I could I knew it was worth with, but I’m I’m not gonna tell you the whole story.
It’s just too funny. But I so this person was actually twenty nine years younger.

Victoria Volk: Okay. So

Scott Forrester: I went way out of him and and asked her to marry me knowing that. Very likely he was gonna say no. So she did say no. So anyway, I wasn’t looking for it then, and I’m really not today either. But that that all is there. It’s a good thing because it’s what I’ve really needed. I recently talked about the difference between being alone and being lonely. Mhmm. If you’re if you’ve never done it before and you’re forced to be alone, you have to learn some things you’ve never learned before. And it’s exactly what you need.
So that’s my story. For the pilot.

Victoria Volk: Thank you for sharing.

Scott Forrester: Thank you. Thank you for being a great host.

Victoria Volk: I would ask you what your grief has taught you, but I feel like you’ve fully answered that question. Do you feel like you’ve answered that question?

Scott Forrester: I have. But in looking over her wonderful marriage, and it was. I saw I saw in retrospect, I saw areas where I really wish I’d been more for and then I got carried away with that to the point where, you know, boy. You could look back and and and say, I was so selfish in in some marriage. When you’re you’re twenty years old and you get married, you don’t know We just had dumb kid. So you asked everything you learned in life. Everything we learned, we learned together. And so you you can get you can kinda get out of focus on that. Yes. I do wish I’d done some things even more for, but you can’t say, I wish I’d known fifty years ago what I know now because it’s impossible.
It’s so it’s always a very beautiful thing and then I I for a while, I got so carried away with. Which I I do acknowledge and I do want to bring into life and other people’s lives. What I learned there how much how much freedom is encouragement that you want to give the woman your a r I two? So that’s there. And I’m working with that. But for a while, it overshadowed what was something that was really beautiful even though it was very imperfect because it could not have been anything else. So, yeah, that’s another lesson.

Victoria Volk: So what his love taught you?

Scott Forrester: What his love taught me? Yeah. I understand the commitment. I understand what it takes it takes a whole lifetime to build that kind of a relationship. The amount of comfort that we had with each other, the we really were one person.
And she has she has guided me through all of this. And love love has taught me, you know, look look at the love, don’t and look at whatever lessons you can learn, but But don’t forget that there was something there that was beyond anything that was done. It’s you can’t encapsulate it all in one mistake or one love is something that goes beyond. It’s more than the sum of the parts. The whole of the whole relationship if it works in the marriage is more than the sum of parts. It works better than it should. It can work better than it should.

Victoria Volk: And what do you think is the key to it working? For fifty years?

Scott Forrester: So I don’t wanna be too tried, but we we were careful to be committed to that idea at the start. I’ve been kind of astounded if I look back, I see. I guess, you know, there were places where it could not have worked. And then I’ve been kind of astounded when I’m getting a better view of what marriage is for people overall. And and there are a lot of divorces. Yeah. So I’ve been kind of astounded by that. It’s so logical that it wouldn’t work. So I I really have gained no understanding of that. From a perspective of what? You know? Because okay. So a couple of other things that I know even when in my wife’s journal that she said I could read shows up is that commitment’s not enough. If you don’t know how to make the relationship work, commitment is not enough because you’re committed to something that doesn’t work. So then the thing of communication is really essential. And you should develop the skill of nonviolent communication. Of being able to communicate without blaming. But even but we always communicated but we didn’t even know that skill sometimes. The person that can hurt you most in the world is your spouse. And if you have not shed a lot of your ego, everybody wants to be hurt and everybody wants to be loved. And if you have a very strong egoistic way of doing things, which we all do, then somebody gets hurt, and then they say, but you did this, that as a matter of self defense. There’s various ways that can happen. I just listened yeah. You’ve been very patient. I just just listened to an interview with I think his name is John Cotton. And he was saying that after all the studies he’s done, you could predict whether a couple would stay together in as little as fifteen minutes with eighty five or ninety percent accuracy. Because we talked about the fellow Christ method that it’s the quality of what you do dictates what you learn, not the quantity. So you can do a lot of quantity and you end up with neck pain or or hurt because you’re doing the same thing the same way and you and you increase the intensity, but you’re using the same habit. So because of the quality of couples interaction, they can tell just a short period of interaction would typify the quality of what you’re doing. So do you do you still enroll? You don’t even listen and they know you’re not listening. So they upped the volume. I mean, do you do that or or do you even when you hurt one another, are you really seeking for something really knowing It’s not even compromise. There’s some truth somewhere. And are you really pursuing this? Which we did as a friendship? Or are you trying to be right? And those those little things and you can eventually to be learn to communicate much better. But then So that brings you to the other thing and you can’t up your what’s the quality of your communication in the first place? Are you trying to be right or and that comes you know, you have to learn that because that comes through. But but the friend aspect of it, you know, is that the most important thing? And like I say, in beyond compromise, are you looking for something together? I we weren’t great at it. Just I mean, and and and listening with a high degree of awareness. If you bring complete awareness, complete observation to that in a non bias, non passionate way, then you are you are observing your own self in my con. You are observing your wife’s body language. You are observing her words. You are observing hell around. She holds your head, and and you are seeing the meaning behind it. And if you don’t, you ask that’s a high level of communication. And we didn’t always have that, but we we did have this basic belief in. What we were doing. So you need that communication and then you need that continued growth. That self growth. If you don’t have that, that’s a well, that’s a hard place too. But but if you have that friendship aspect, if that’s really what you’re what you’re after, you you can keep going. I mean, you you’ll probably make it. What what was very interesting? And John Gottman’s speech I was listening to was he said, most married problems don’t they don’t ever get accepted or changed. Resolved, but they get accepted. So the friendship, the aesthetics really what determines it all. If you want to go farther, you can. And and you show that it might be dangerous not to.

Victoria Volk: Well, that’s the foundation. Right?

Scott Forrester: Yeah. But that’s the foundation. Mhmm. You can learn better communication skills and you can learn learn not to to put that ego first and you can learn to do that. And then something that you should have learned that is it’s becoming more a possibility in a in a country you can learn. We throw the word partner around. It’s a good work. But it loses some of its meaning if you throw it around too much. Like so to add to that, you can say, you collaborate with your wife or your colleagues or and then you can go back to use the word partner with a different meaning. As equals.

Victoria Volk: I had a conversation yesterday with a minister. Mhmm. He said the most important decision you will ever make in your life is the person you choose to spend your life with.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. Liam was eternally kind. That was so important. So Yeah. You’re you’re right.
That is and so you should be a little nervous about it. And take your time. I actually I asked, actually, after before he got married, we were a kid. I said, what makes you think you can stay better?

Victoria Volk: What’d she say?

Scott Forrester: She told me, you know, she’d never experienced. Divorce in her family. Her mother was always there. Even her father was there. Even though her father invited to a horrible marriage, he never left his wife. And then I thought that was a pretty good answer.

Victoria Volk: What is it that you would like to scream to the world? You were on a long hike and you were out in the mountains and you’re at the top of the mountain, what would you scream?

Scott Forrester: Well, in a book, I would like to scream, scream, her her story. It’s amazing. Overall, I would I would just I would just like people to know how how great marriage could be even though it’s it’s a process to see through. It’s not great every day. It can become great every day, but that’s a that’s a long story. I would like them to see how wonderful it could be. I would like to I would like them to see two things. One, the beauty of how how much my wife or a woman can give, and then I would like them to see the wonder of what the husband how he can lay himself aside. That I’m I’m not talking about wear yourself doing a wear yourself out doing everything for for your old wife, but you give your entire heart to to her elevation. Those two aspects. I mean, what she gave is astounding. And it’s hard to put it into words. But I would like I would like so I would like overall people to know, you know, what what marriage could be. How you could get there. What a wife really? What a gift a wife could be? And And I think there needs to be more a lot more knowledge of of how a husband needs to function in terms of putting his eagle down and and any leadership comes from my my entire heart is in elevating my partner. I yeah. So the the beauty of the whole thing, I can I cannot overappreciate the gift that she gave? Her entire life.

Victoria Volk: That’s beautiful. Is there anything else that you would like to share that you didn’t get to?

Scott Forrester: No. I just appreciate the opportunity to talk about even. I I guess Yeah. The fact that I can still I can still ask her questions and I feel a response just in the smile or It is it’s never it’s not really a loss. I only lost the physical things.
Anyway, I I thank you very much for the chance to share all that even some of the most embarrassing things.

Victoria Volk: It was my pleasure to have this conversation with you, and thank you for describing this new Well, it’s not new, but this the method.

Scott Forrester: Oh, the the film price method if you

Victoria Volk: Yeah.

Scott Forrester: If you didn’t any help understanding that get in touch with me.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. So thank you for bringing that to my awareness, to my audience who Yeah. I mean, there’s so many neurological issues out there. And as we talked about grief and emotions and how they get held in the body and I see that it’s something that could be very beneficial for everyone just as you shared and It’s obviously been helpful for you in navigating your grief and bringing a sense of awareness to your body and being within the body and Okay. Has allowed you to live an exceptional physical life.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. Without that, I wouldn’t be doing some of the things I’m doing right now.

Victoria Volk: And isn’t that the whole goal of I think all of us, you know, I’m forty five. I’m thinking, oh my gosh, I’m gonna be fifty. And you’re thinking, oh my gosh, I wish I could be fifty. Maybe, you know. But that’s the goal. Right? To get to as we get older, it’s not to view it as a death sentence or slow progression of debilitation and weakness and all of these things. And so I try and take care of myself so that truthfully. I can probably take care of my husband because I feel like I’m the stronger of us too, you know.

Scott Forrester: Really? Yeah. Yeah. I can still lift my wife. It’s That’s incredible.
Absolutely. That’s we wanna live our best life and we we don’t wanna accept unnecessary rehabilitation.

Victoria Volk: And that’s the key unnecessary. Right?

Scott Forrester: And so when you get out of the Pacific, unnecessary, exactly. And if we have the necessary, then we want to incorporate that into our life the best we to be the best that we are. And if you get on the Pacific Crest Trail, you find, you know, you hike all day. Entire day, you take your breath, breaks, so you make sure you eat and drink enough. But that’s all you’re doing. The entire day from when you get up in the morning to when you when you need to allow enough time to set up your tent. But there’s old people out there. And they’re in shape you wouldn’t believe. There’s, you know, there’s a lot of twenty, thirty, forty, fifty year olds out there, but there’s older people out there.

Victoria Volk: Well, in thirty, forty year olds that can’t do what you can do, wouldn’t even dare do what you’ve done?

Scott Forrester: Yeah. I throughout my life, I have shunned any job that involved eight hours a day of sitting.

Victoria Volk: Oh, Yeah. Sitting if they face sitting as the new smoking.

Scott Forrester: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. No. That was the same.

Victoria Volk: Well, thank you so much for your time today and sharing about Lee and stealth and your father and your and your mother and all the wisdom that you brought to our conversation, I I thank you for your time.

Scott Forrester: Thank you. You are an an excellent host to enjoy talking to you. Get in touch with me if you wanna learn more about the fellow price benefits.

Victoria Volk: And where can people find you if they would like to get in touch with you?

Scott Forrester: I’m actually reworking my website, but you can get all my contact information off of the aware athlete dot com.

Victoria Volk: K. I will put

Scott Forrester: a link. Not the aware athlete. Aware athlete dot com.

Victoria Volk: Aware athlete dot com. And I will put a link to that in the show notes as well.

Scott Forrester: I’m actually yeah. I’m I’m I’m actually working on a website that’s not really live yet, the aware human.

Victoria Volk: Okay. I like that.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. And you can find my books. You wear athlete book. Your warehouse to find that you should put in the warehouse, the entire title I won’t give you the subtitled now. But the awareness, like, by Scott Forrester, you can find that on Amazon.

Victoria Volk: And I’ll put a link to that in the show notes as well. Yeah.

Scott Forrester: Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Victoria Volk: Thank you. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Watch your growth.

Ep 174 Debbie R. Weiss | Finding Strength in Struggle: Weight Loss, Widowhood, & Wisdom

Debbie R. Weiss | Finding Strength in Struggle: Weight Loss, Widowhood, & Wisdom

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY: 

In this episode of Grieving Voices, we welcome the remarkable Debbie Weiss, a life strategist who has spent over five decades helping others while overcoming her own daunting life challenges.

As an author and podcaster, she offers hope and motivation to many through her memoir “On Second Thought, Maybe I Can” and as a contributing author in “Heart Whispers.”

Key Points:
– At age 50, Debbie experienced what she describes as midlife awareness rather than a crisis.
– She reflects on becoming the primary caregiver for her father after his stroke at just 46 years old — a role that lasted thirty years.
– The pivotal moment came during a girls’ trip when she was 50, where she realized how much of herself was lost in caregiving roles.
– Her journey involved tackling weight loss by changing her mindset about food and diets to embrace it as part of a sustainable lifestyle change.
– Secrets have a way of holding us back, as Debbie encountered and later moved through.
– Being a caregiver for most of one’s life and in different roles has taught Debbie the importance of not caring for others except all else, including self-care. As a caregiving daughter, then as a wife to her terminally ill husband, Garrett, and mother of a son who struggles with mental health challenges, she now advocates for those who’ve given their lives to caregiving or otherwise and are ready to empower themselves.

Takeaways:
Debbie underscores the importance of self-care amidst responsibilities. She emphasizes that mindset is key — changing habits and reframing thoughts towards oneself and one’s goals.

Tune into this powerful conversation full of raw emotion, resilience, insights into mental health struggles within families, and navigating grief after losing loved ones.

RESOURCES:

CONNECT:

_______

NEED HELP?

  • National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
  • Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor

If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.

CONNECT WITH VICTORIA: 

Victoria Volk
(00:00:00 – 00:00:21)
Thank you for tuning in to Grieving Voices. If this is your 1st time listening, welcome., And if you’ve listened before, welcome back. Today, my guest is Debbie Weiss. She is a seasoned life strategist with over 5 decades of experience and has faced some of life’s most daunting challenges head-on and emerged as a beacon of hope and inspiration for others.

Victoria Volk
(00:00:22 – 00:00:47)
As the author of the highly sensitive memoir, On Second Thought, Maybe I Can. And a contributing author in the collaborative book, Heart Whispers, Debbie’s words have the power to uplift and motivate. You can also be uplifted and motivated by Debbie through her podcast, Maybe I Can, and pass along some heart joy to others through her shop of sprinkle of hearts. Thank you so much for being here.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:00:47 – 00:00:49)
Oh, thank you so much for having me.

Victoria Volk
(00:00:50 – 00:01:18)
So I read about you a little bit  I scoped the the webs and was reading a little bit about your story. And I really wanna I don’t think this has been talked about ever specifically on the podcast in almost 4 years. So I’m excited for that. But you talk a lot about, like, on your website and in your form and stuff that you filled out. Age 50 was this pinnacle year for you.

Victoria Volk
(00:01:19 – 00:01:43)
And it was almost as if, like, for me personally, I had what I call a midlife unraveling. Mine was in my earlier thirties, but which it can happen for any of anytime during your lifetime. Right? But for you, it was around 50. And would you say that that was a midlife unraveling or midlife crisis or midlife awareness or how would you describe that?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:01:44 – 00:02:19)
I think I would describe it as midlife awareness. At that point, I had been a family caregiver to my father for over 30 years. My oldest son who was diagnosed on the autistic spectrum and at that point, I wasn’t a caregiver to my husband, but just for the 30 years with my dad and then adding my son, took it to a whole new level, and I was stressed. I still had regular responsibilities like we all have.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:02:19 – 00:02:43)
I was working full time, and I was actually self-employed, so I had to worry about my customers and my employees and whatnot and, of course, things at home and my kids at that age were being, at least my younger one, shuffled off to whatever event but life. Right? And it just never seemed to stop. It was just this get-up. Do it again.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:02:43 – 00:03:03)
What do I you know, what fires do I have to put out today? hat do I need to make sure to check off my list? And when I turned 50, my friends insisted that we go away for the weekend on a girl’s trip for my birthday. And I thought, oh my goodness. I’d love to do that, but how am I gonna leave my husband?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:03:03 – 00:03:27)
What you know, with all of these in charge of these things and whatever. And I went. And on that trip, it was the first time in my adult life that I did not have to worry about anybody else but myself. And when they asked me, well, what do you wanna do, or where do you wanna go eat? I’m, like, looking over my shoulder.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:03:27 – 00:03:59)
Like, are they asking me? And through just reconnecting with my friends and really myself, I kinda came to the realization of who am I? Who have I become? Not that I would ever change taking care of any of my family members. But I had done that at the complete exclusion of taking care of myself. And I think at 50, it was also kind of that mortality motivation thing.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:03:59 – 00:04:15)
Like, okay, Is my life more than half over? Am I really making it to a 100?  I hope so. But chances are I’m on the downhill slide, let’s say, and I don’t wanna be that person who gets to the end, looks back, and said, what happened?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:04:15 – 00:04:39)
I just wasted. I don’t wanna say wasted, but I didn’t do what I wanted to do, and I didn’t have anything I wanted to do, by the way. But it just felt like if I didn’t do something and take control in some way at that point. The next 50 years were gonna be gone, and I was gonna be that person looking back. And so that was the moment.

Victoria Volk
(00:04:40 – 00:04:57)
Can we rewind the clock a little bit? I read on your website that it was after like, the day after you graduated high school, your dad had this massive stroke. Yep. Why did the responsibility because people might listen people listening. If I’m curious, they’re probably curious too.

Victoria Volk
(00:04:58 – 00:05:00)
Why did the responsibility fall on you?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:05:03 – 00:05:20)
So my parents, several years before had been separated off and on. And they got back together., And it’s funny. I don’t know why, my mother is still alive. I’m very happy to say, and I don’t know why I really haven’t discussed this with her.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:05:21 – 00:05:48)

But I don’t know how their marriage was at that point. My father was days shy of turning 46 when he had the stroke. My mother was 39 years old. And they were separated because my father had an affair. And I think, for my mom, of course, when I was that age, I didn’t understand. Then as an adult, it has a a different perspective.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:05:49 – 00:06:17)
My mom did what she needed to do for my father. Don’t get me wrong. But it was I always had this daddy’s little girl connection. I have 1 younger brother, so I always grew up feeling like it was kinda 2 teams,  my mother and my brother and my father and I, and he was my hero. He fell from the pedestal with the affair, for sure.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:06:18 – 00:06:43)
But, still, when I saw my mother was doing what she needed to do as far as getting him the doctors and the care and all of that stuff. But she didn’t really have, like, what I felt she should be compassionate. She didn’t have as much, sympathy or and, again, this was according to what my standards were. I did actually go away to college.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:06:43 – 00:07:04)
So my father was in the hospital the whole entire summer, very different. This was 1981, very different than how It would work now. And I left for college, which that alone is traumatic. Right? But to know that you’re leaving behind, my dad, I didn’t know what was gonna happen.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:07:04 – 00:07:37)
I knew, again, he would be safe and taken care of, but not how I felt comfortable. And I went away to school not being invested. And that it’s another whole story. But I wound up leaving school, coming home, attending a local university for a year and a half and taking care of my father at home. So he at the time, he was had a physical therapist and a speech therapist, and I had to do the exercises with him.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:07:37 – 00:08:12)

And I would actually help him get into a bathing suit so that I could put him onto the chair over the bathtub with the handheld shower and give him a shower. I was doing that. He was still living at home. After a year and a half, now I was 2 years into college, and I thought to myself, kind of like at 50, I lost this college experience that my friends are having. And I’m gonna regret it. And I actually did transfer away to a different yet a third school for the last 2 years.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:08:12 – 00:08:33)
That’s where I graduated from. In my senior year, my mother had already made the decision that she wanted a divorce. And so she found him a place to live, which back then, like, assisted living, independent living, not like it is today. So she could only we lived in Long Island. She could only find a place in New Jersey.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:08:33 – 00:09:03)
It was about an hour and a half from where we lived. And there he was at the time, still not even 50, living with 85 year olds. And so once they were divorced, then he was my real responsibility as far as, he didn’t live with me. He did live independently. He was able to do that, but I was the money person because he didn’t have a lot of money, and that changed over the years, and I used I’d had to move him to different places.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:09:03 – 00:09:27)
And then he had other medical problems, and now I’m learning all about, doctors and specialists, and I didn’t even know what all those ologists were at 22 years old. Right? So that’s kind of how it happened. I did hold a lot of anger and resentment towards my mother. I did for a long time.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:09:27 – 00:09:44)
But I have come to terms with it because I know that she certainly, in her own mind, didn’t think, oh, I’m gonna saddle my daughter with this. Mhmm. I think she was thinking, and I’m putting words in her mouth. She did take care of him officially, got him what he needed.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:09:44 – 00:10:04)
If I had a question, it wasn’t like she wasn’t gonna help me. But she wasn’t the person getting the phone calls and having to visit and bring food and whatever. Over the years, I could literally write another book about my 30-year experience with my dad, some funny. So that’s that’s how it happened.

Victoria Volk
(00:10:05 – 00:10:15)
So did you find yourself into a career that like, what what did you go to school for, and did you follow the path that you intended?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:10:15 – 00:10:49)
I never knew what my path was. I was always a numbers girl, a math girl, but not science. So I knew I didn’t want anything like that. And I originally wanted to go to, law school to become an attorney, a sports attorney to deal with, like, athletes’ contracts and stuff. Well, simultaneously, I was also with my high school boyfriend who I was engaged to by or right after I graduated from college, and I decided not to go to law school at the time.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:10:49 – 00:10:56)
And I had graduated with a degree in accounting, so I became a CPA. Okay. It was fine.

Victoria Volk
(00:10:57 – 00:11:00)
Did you end up marrying the man that you were engaged to?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:11:00 – 00:11:35)
Nope. Because he, even though he’ll still deny it, wound up meeting someone else while we were together and left me for her. But in the end, just like so many things like that that are heartbreaking at the time, it was actually, I knew deep in my heart that he was not the right person for me. I just didn’t have a lot of self-confidence or self-esteem, and I felt like I better take whoever’s interested because I’ll probably never meet anyone else. So he did me a favor.

Victoria Volk
(00:11:37 – 00:11:54)
And I think, that can only come in hindsight. Right? And then as we you know, we don’t in the moment, it’s like you think it’s just devastating, and you think your world’s falling apart. And then after you have some time pass and, fall onto a different path. Right?

Victoria Volk
(00:11:54 – 00:12:01)
Because of that, that changes the trajectory of your life. You look back and it’s like, oh, Phew. I dodged a bullet there.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:12:01 – 00:12:03)
Exactly. Completely.

Victoria Volk
(00:12:04 – 00:12:22)
For 30 years, you cared for your dad. So when so you had a lot of time to have conversations and work through a lot of things maybe that with your mom and all of this the dynamics of the family and things. But when did he recently pass?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:12:23 – 00:12:36)
No. He passed away in 2011. Literally, like, 30 years. It was he had the stroke in 1981, and he died in 2011, a month before, like, the anniversary of the stroke.

Victoria Volk
(00:12:36 – 00:12:38)
Oh, wow. It’s so young. So young.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:12:38 – 00:12:52)
So young. Yeah. It was crazy. I mean, we were, of course, I can think of the day it happened. And stroke wasn’t even a term that you would equate to a 45 or 46 year old.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:12:52 – 00:13:01)
It just was so out of the blue and so left field and bizarre, but things happen.

Victoria Volk
(00:13:02 – 00:13:25)
Coincidentally, just in the last month or so. So my son had a heart murmur found when he was in high in he was 12. Sports physical. And it’s due to when you take your 1st breath when you’re born, the flap between the left and right ventricle doesn’t seal and so it can leak a little blood and you can develop blood clots and stroke is a risk of that. Yeah.

Victoria Volk
(00:13:25 – 00:13:39)
But just in the last month, 2 people I’ve heard well, 1 person I know had a stroke because of that. And another I just found out today another person, they were 33 years old when they had a stroke due to the same thing.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:13:40 – 00:13:40)
Wow.

Victoria Volk
(00:13:41 – 00:13:59)
And so when children are found to have a heart murmur when they’re young, it’s really important to investigate why why that is? And I’m glad that my son’s doctor had the due diligence to do that, but I’m thinking he’s 18 now, but I’m thinking, man, he should probably start taking a baby aspirin. You know?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:13:59 – 00:14:01)
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that’s interesting. So my father

Victoria Volk
(00:14:01 – 00:14:02)
that changes your life.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:14:02 – 00:14:07)
My goodness. Oh, yes. My father’s stroke was not from that.

Victoria Volk
(00:14:07 – 00:14:09)
Okay. Because he was so young, that’s why.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:14:09 – 00:14:18)
His carotid arteries were blocked. Come 1 completely blocked. So in your neck here, so the oxygen got cut off to his brain.

Victoria Volk
(00:14:19 – 00:14:30)
So how did that weekend what did your life look like after that girls weekend, which I just wanna say how important it is for people listening, how important girls weekends are.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:14:30 – 00:14:31)
Oh my goodness.

Victoria Volk
(00:14:31 – 00:14:34)
I take a yearly camping trip with girls, my girlfriends.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:14:34 – 00:14:35)
Good for you.

Victoria Volk
(00:14:35 – 00:14:37)
And we have for years, and it’s so important.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:14:38 – 00:15:01)
It’s the best. It’s the best. It’s just so different than anything else and just gives you the time and perspective away to laugh and just relax and enjoy yourself, so I couldn’t agree with you more. It’s always nice to have it on the calendar to whenever we come back from something we just came back from my 60th birthday trip. And so whenever we come back, it’s like, okay.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:15:01 – 00:15:08)
Now what? We’re planning what the next thing is to at least always have that, Mhmm. To look forward to.

Victoria Volk
(00:15:08 – 00:15:10)
Because if it’s not on the calendar, it won’t happen.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:15:10 – 00:15:12)
Happen. Exactly. Exactly.

Victoria Volk
(00:15:13 – 00:15:15)
Because everyone has responsibilities. Right?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:15:16 – 00:15:30)
Absolutely. Yep. You’ve gotta commit to it because it’s easy to say to back out and say, I have too much to do. I can’t go. But unless it’s earth-shattering, life-altering, go.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:15:31 – 00:15:33)
You’ll be happy you did, for sure.

Victoria Volk
(00:15:34 – 00:15:36)
So what did that look like when you came back?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:15:36 – 00:15:57)
When I came back, I don’t think then I don’t think that I consciously said, okay. Now I’m gonna start changing my life. But yet, I did decide, to I  guess I should say, you can’t come back and be like, okay. Now I wanna change everything. Right?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:15:57 – 00:16:21)
That’s way too overwhelming. For me, weight I’ve had a weight problem my whole entire life. Just like many people with weight problem, the normal stuff, go on this, especially as a young child. Diets were different then. This extremely restrictive diet, lose a certain amount, after 3 months of basically being able to only eat lettuce, then it’s like, oh my gosh.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:16:21 – 00:16:56)
Give me something else, then you taste it. The next thing, the £25 or whatever is back and more and so on and so forth. And at that point, I was I don’t think I was the heaviest I ever was, but I was a 100 pounds overweight. And of all the diets I have done them all, weight watchers was one that was, like, worked for me. And I said, I’m gonna go back to weight watchers, but I’m gonna be different this time.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:16:56 – 00:17:21)
Because when I went in the past, it’d be like, okay. I need to lose x amount of weight by a certain date or else I’m a failure. And if I don’t eat something on plan, oh, forget it. I might as well just ditch the whole idea. So instead, I said, what I’m gonna do, I’m going to commit to going to the weight watchers meeting one time a week.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:17:21 – 00:17:32)
That’s it. Nothing to do with how much weight I lose, what I’m eating, if I’m recording my food. None of that. I’m not gonna worry about it. I’m just gonna get going to the meeting down.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:17:33 – 00:18:02)
And I did that, and I didn’t lose any weight. I didn’t gain any, but I didn’t lose any. And then once I was comfortable with that and actually enjoying the meeting and meeting people and looking forward to going, then I added another layer. So I’m just gonna pay attention or track my food 50% of the time, and got comfortable with that and decided for the first time in my life, there is no endgame here. There is no on-and-off.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:18:02 – 00:18:16)
This was just when the term lifestyle was being thrown around, but that’s what it was. That’s what I told myself. You’re never gonna be on a diet again. This is a lifestyle.  You’re gonna eat ice cream.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:18:16 – 00:18:31)
You should eat ice cream. Nothing is forbidden. But just because you ate ice cream doesn’t mean you’re gonna eat ice cream 7 days a week, and you’re gonna add other things. It just doesn’t work like this. It’s a balance, and you’re never gonna be off it.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:18:33 – 00:18:52)
And for so long, I looked at other people who didn’t have a weight problem, and I just assumed it was easy for them. I’d see them on a Saturday night eating and drinking whatever they wanted. Maybe I don’t think I made the connection. Hey. They don’t eat and drink like that 21 meals a week.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:18:52 – 00:19:13)
I was so busy feeling sorry for myself, that I didn’t take the time to really be honest with myself. And I think it probably took 2 to 3 years to lose 90 of the £100. I was, as we say, a turtle.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:19:13 – 00:19:53)
Slow and steady wins the race. And just the fact that I had stuck with something for that long, now it had become my new normal. And I actually have not yet hit that 100 pound mark. And since that time that I hit that number, which was probably 2016 or 17, so for me, 3 6 to 6 years, let’s say, of basically maintaining, I’ve gone up £10, but then I’ve been able to lose it too, is a huge victory. So what changed?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:19:54 – 00:20:08)
Weight Watchers didn’t change. Yeah. Every year, they make some little tweaks to their program, but it wasn’t that. It was my mindset. It was all in my approach and how I was thinking about the whole thing.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:20:08 – 00:20:32)
And that was really the start of my understanding howmy  mind, my thoughts has the power to shape my life. I was giving the power to everybody and everything else and taking no responsibility, but yet it was the things I was thinking. I was feeling sorry for myself. Why me? Poor me.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:20:32 – 00:20:41)
Oh, I might as well just eat a cookie. You know? Whereas, when I change those thoughts, I changed my behavior. Well, and when you’re start.

Victoria Volk
(00:20:42 – 00:20:44)
Congratulations, first of all.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:20:44 – 00:20:45)
Thank you.

Victoria Volk
(00:20:45 – 00:21:09)
On maintaining and changing your relationship with food because, essentially, that’s really what you did.  Absolutely. I think too, like, with all this, like, if you’re constantly at that fight or flight stress level in your life where you’re just that hamster on the wheel, it’s far easier to just abandon what you know is healthy for you and just choose what’s easiest.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:21:10 – 00:21:27)
Especially as an emotional stress eater. I would look forward to the end of the day when I could finally sit down, not have anybody ask me for anything. Watch an hour or 2 of TV and eat some snacks. And my husband also had a weight problem.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:21:28 – 00:21:50)
He didn’t care about it like I did. He couldn’t care less. So, you know, a lot of the times, I had, like, a partner in crime, which, in hindsight, I actually prefer that over the partner who looks at you and watches everything that you’re putting in your mouth. At first, I thought, oh my gosh. It’s even harder having him.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:21:50 – 00:22:18)
And then when I listened to my friends and what I hear and people watching you, like, I never had to worry about that. And I, for the most part, felt, yes, I would be upset, about how I looked as I would get heavier. But I never felt that his love was tied to my weight, which was how it should be, but it’s not always the case.

Victoria Volk
(00:22:20 – 00:22:27)
As you were changing and coming into these different new awarenesses, did some of that rub off on your husband?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:22:28 – 00:22:42)
I think so. I don’t think, certainly, he didn’t incorporate my food choices and changes into his life, but he was the, actually, I don’t cook. He did. He loved it. He loved grocery shopping.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:22:42 – 00:23:01)
That was all him. And he without him, I really couldn’t have done it because I would bring him recipes, and he would make things for me and portion them out. And he was my partner in it. And when he stopped cooking, it was very hard for me.

Victoria Volk
(00:23:02 – 00:23:08)
Did he stop cooking? Did he get sick? Because I know your husband that’s what brought you to the podcast today.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:23:08 – 00:23:27)
Yeah. So my husband, funny. I would look back and say, boy, you went through male menopause after you turned 50. Everything seemed to like I noticed when he turned 50, he always had a lot of he was diabetic. He had Crohn’s disease.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:23:29 – 00:24:13)
He had some social anxiety, which I didn’t really understand. And then as my kids were both diagnosed with ADHD, it was clear he had ADHD, but it just seemed like he started getting crankier, which he wasn’t cranky before, it was looking back, it was now I understand more that there was a mental illness component coming into play, but I didn’t understand that then. And so as time went on, it just got worse and worse and worse. And the things that he enjoyed, he was no longer enjoying.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:24:13 – 00:24:38)
He, it seemed like it now he had to see a cardiologist. Now he had to see whatever it was, it just things started popping up, but yet because of his mental illness, he didn’t take care of them as he should. So I would be making doctor’s appointments for him because I was basically ran in his life. I would be making doctor’s appointments for him, and he wouldn’t go.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:24:39 – 00:24:55)
And then I’d have to either call or cancel or and reschedule, and it it was like a cycle. And then I had all of these different appointments. Now, simultaneously, he and I worked together. I have an insurance agency. He worked there with me from the beginning.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:24:55 – 00:25:17)
He was an integral part, I mean, more so than me. He was basically customers loved him. I was more the behind the scenes girl, doing the numbers and keeping the business running. But he was the face that people came to see. And slowly, he would be we would drive separately, and he would drive to work.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:25:17 – 00:25:37)
And he would text me or call me and say, I’m pulled over on the side of the road. I had to pull over because I was gonna get sick. And I thought this didn’t happen just once. This happened more than once. And then he would pull up in front of the office and call and say, I can’t come in.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:25:37 – 00:25:51)
I have to go home. Be like, what? And this went on for years, and I thought that it all had to do with his Crohn’s. But looking back, it wasn’t. It was anxiety.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:25:53 – 00:26:34)
And it just kept getting worse and worse and worse. And I would say that, the last 10 to 12 years of his life, I didn’t really have a husband in the sense that we all think we did not have a physical relationship. We did not, I was just taking care of him, and he and he started doing less and less. Eventually, one day, he just walked out of the office and said, I can never come back. And he left me with I mean, he came back to my house, but he couldn’t go back to the office.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:26:35 – 00:27:10)
And I said, Garrett, can’t can’t I just bring home the stuff then we just go through it and you tell me who do I need to call, what do I need to do? Like, Customer service is a huge thing for me, so just that gave me anxiety thinking that I was going to let the ball drop on so many things because of his procrastination and his illness, he had stacks of papers miles high in his desk. You couldn’t even see, and he never would do it. He could not do it. And so, long term employee of of mine, she and I went through, and we just called people and said, look.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:27:10 – 00:27:31)
He had to leave suddenly, and we wanna make sure. What’s outstanding, and everybody was understanding. But for me, that was super difficult because each step of the way, I think, okay. Now he’s home. He doesn’t have the stress of working, so now he should be able to get back to going to the grocery store and cooking, and his mood should improve.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:27:31 – 00:28:10)
And it didn’t happen. It was just a I think, a very steep decline from that part on, now he wasn’t well, let me just also say simultaneously, our oldest son, at that point, was suffering from depression and anxiety that was pretty intense, and he wound up being hospitalized. And it was traumatic and horrible. And I think that that trauma sealed the deal. And he then, again, I didn’t realize at the time I couldn’t get him out of bed for days.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:28:10 – 00:28:17)
That was the depression. I would be at work. He would have appointment. I’d be calling, calling, calling the house.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:28:17 – 00:28:27)
The phone had been ringing. He’d be sleeping. I then I’d be worried. I’d jump in my car and drive home. It was It was so incredibly stressful.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:28:28 – 00:29:02)
It eventually culminated in May of 2022 with me, somehow and this is a whole mental illness discussion. And it’s very difficult to get somebody hospitalized if they’re not willing, but I was able to get him hospitalized. And in a week, he made an amazing transformation. And he came home from that Hospitalization. He was so happy and upbeat.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:29:02 – 00:29:19)
He had to go to online therapy 5 days a week for 3 at a time, he was, like, the star in the group. It was like, who is this man? And we had all of us, it was like a cloud lifted. And for the 1st time, I did really feel hopeful. Like, okay.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:29:19 – 00:29:35)
He’s gonna come through this. And less than 6 weeks later, he was diagnosed with terminal blood cancer. Just talking about it gets me upset. Sorry, It’s just so crazy how life just throws these twists and turns you’re away.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:29:35 – 00:29:51)
And that was June of 2022, and he died December 30th last year. Sorry. Thanks. And those 6 months were hell.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:29:52 – 00:30:22)
And, honestly, the physical part, yes, but the mental, it got really bad. So, it’s if somebody because I never had any experience with mental illness. And it’s just like anything else until you do, you just can’t understand it. It is just there’s no look. There’s no logic to disease either, right, with cancer and whatnot, but we all know people.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:30:23 – 00:30:34)
And there’s protocols. Right? And we know what the odds are, and sometimes they work, and sometimes they don’t. And, you kind of know what the ultimate sometimes you do.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:30:34 – 00:30:57)
Sometimes you don’t. But with mental illness, It’s like throwing darts at a dartboard. And then when you compound all of these other factors, these physical illnesses. With that, it’s too complex. And, he was, hospitalized for the whole month of November last year in 2 different facilities.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:30:58 – 00:31:34)
And because of the medications and whatever, he actually had a psychotic break and lost touch with reality. And it was awful. It was medication driven, I think, from what the 1st hospital did and how they took him off some meds too suddenly. And once they got him stable, he came back home, but now he hated me, because I had put him through this. And that was literally the beginning of December.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:31:36 – 00:31:49)
And then he was not on hospice. He was not it was not one of those things where we knew he was it was imminent. Nope. It came out of the blue. Out of the blue.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:31:49 – 00:32:07)
And He, in the end, basically made the decision. I don’t know if it was rational, but he was he on Christmas night, he was, I heard him, like, do a little cough. My son had a cold., I’m like, what is that? And he said, oh, no.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:32:07 – 00:32:23)
It’s nothing. And he really wasn’t coughing, but he then he was tired and he’s very sick. So, you don’t really think too much of it. And then by 2 days later, I was like, I wanna do your blood pressure. I wanna take your temperature.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:32:23 – 00:32:25)
Now. Now. Now. Now. Leave me alone.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:32:25 – 00:32:39)
Leave me alone. And I got to do the temperature at least because I could just swipe, and he had a temperature. It wasn’t terrible, but with his situation, that was where I was supposed to call the doctor screaming at me. No. No.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:32:39 – 00:32:53)
No. The next day, the temperature is a 102. I said, that’s it, and he would not. The next morning at 6 o’clock in the morning, he basically he couldn’t move. I had now I was sleeping.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:32:54 – 00:33:12)

So I had, I have a bedroom upstairs. He had he couldn’t go upstairs anymore, so I actually, the room that I’m sitting in now, it’s a little office in my downstairs. I turned this into a bedroom. So he was downstairs. I was sleeping upstairs, but he had a upstairs, but he had a funny feeling.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:33:12 – 00:33:27)
He just didn’t wanna be alone. So I had been sleeping on an air mattress in my family room and so I could hear him to help him. And, basically, he wound up falling. I couldn’t get him up. I tried to get my sons to help.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:33:27 – 00:33:40)
We couldn’t move them, and I at this point, he’s got this fever. I said, I don’t care what you say. I’m calling. They came. They said you have to go to the hospital, and told them all the reasons.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:33:40 – 00:34:00)
And he just dug in and said, I am not going, so stop talking to me. And one of the EMTs said to me, we’ll be back today, and he might not be conscious. And I didn’t have a choice. What do you do?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:34:01 – 00:34:20)
And was he did he know? Was he giving up? Did he was just so sick of hospitals at that point, especially after that traumatic experience. And about noon, his temperature was a 103, and I said, okay.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:34:21 – 00:34:32)
I’m done.  And he was having trouble breathing, and he got scared. And he said, okay. And I called. And now, we’ve had a lot of trips to the hospital.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:34:32 – 00:34:48)
And since he did have some OCD tendencies, so I knew all the things that I had to get for him to make him feel good. And I’m gathering that stuff, and he wants him to get dressed. And I’m, like, yelling not yelling at him, but get dressed. You don’t need to get dressed. You’re going to the hospital.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:34:48 – 00:35:09)
Okay. I helped him get his pants on, and he’s, his breathing is labored, and he says to me, what’s taking them so long? And I looked and I said, are you kidding me right now? Because it’s how we talk to each other. Like, after this morning, now you’re annoyed that they’re taking so long.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:35:09 – 00:35:20)
And he said, are you really saying that to me right now? I said, okay. I guess you’re right. And it was interesting because he said to me, are you coming? And I thought, am I coming?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:35:20 – 00:35:36)
When am I never not come? Of course. I’m gonna be right behind you. Turned out in the hospital, he went into in the on the ambulance, he went into respiratory failure. And they asked him if he wanted to be intubated, which he had said, before that he didn’t.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:35:36 – 00:35:55)
But in the moment, he did. But he died less than 24 hours later. So that was our last conversation, which I don’t have regrets about. I honestly feel it was appropriate. But I often wonder, what was going through his head at the time?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:35:55 – 00:36:06)
Did he hope that that would that this was gonna be over finally, or was he just his usual stubborn self and just did not wanna go to that hospital because he hated it.

Victoria Volk
(00:36:09 – 00:36:29)
And it’s so unfortunate because I’m an end of trained end-of-life doula too in, people with terminal illness and terminal cancer. There is such a there is a way to have a death on your terms, how you want it to be. But people are so afraid to go into hospice.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:36:31 – 00:36:31)
You can be

Victoria Volk
(00:36:31 – 00:36:33)
on hospice for years. You have to be a

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:36:33 – 00:36:34)
candidate for it. But, Yep.

Victoria Volk
(00:36:34 – 00:37:14)
I mean, it’s 6 months, and most people don’t make it because they die in the hospital. But it is possible to if the family is just open to and that’s hard for the family to get to that point to be able to let go and to say to accept that that’s at the phase that that person that is at in their life, but It can be a very beautiful experience and a beautiful and I’m sure people are rolling their eyes as I say that, but I’ve had people on this podcast you have shared with me. I’m my own dad passed away in a nursing home.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:37:14 – 00:37:15)
Mine too.

Victoria Volk
(00:37:16 – 00:37:19)
You know? It’s like, he’s 44 years old.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:37:19 – 00:37:20)
My goodness.

Victoria Volk
(00:37:21 – 00:37:30)
You know? Like, he could have died at home had there been this and this is in late eighties. You know? Had there’s this there’s support., There’s resources in most areas.

Victoria Volk
(00:37:30 – 00:37:55)
I recognize that rural America is like thumbs down in that department because there’s just a lack of resources and sources and support when it comes to end of life. But it’s so possible to have a death with dignity. And there’s actually a nonprofit called Die death with dignity. They’re trying to get legislation passed in across America. And, anyway, I’ll link to that in the show notes.

Victoria Volk
(00:37:55 – 00:38:00)
But, thank you for sharing that story. Yeah. I hope

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:38:00 – 00:38:04)
It wasn’t too much. You know, as I got talking, I realized, oh my goodness. Boy.

Victoria Volk
(00:38:05 – 00:38:14)
It’s a lot. It’s just a lot for 1 person to have on their shoulders. Did you have support during that time?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:38:15 – 00:38:27)
Yeah. I mean, obviously. No, I shouldn’t say obviously. I luckily, I do have a very wonderful group of locse friends that were there.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:38:28 – 00:38:46)
But, honestly, nobody could help me. I mean, they listened to me.  And, you know, it was that guilt between I want them to stop suffering. Right? But you hate to say I want him to die because I don’t.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:38:47 – 00:39:13)
But to watch what happened to him and, again, there was a whole bunch of physical things. He was in a lot of pain. To watch that, I don’t want that. Like, if I’m if he’s never gonna be the other person, then why on the one hand, and he was so stubborn that, it was very hard because I, like, I thought I’ve got to bring someone in here to help me.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:39:13 – 00:39:29)
I was cleaning up all out. It was just a mess. And it was it was it was it was too much. And talking about my oldest son I have 2 sons. My oldest son, and my husband, very similar talk about love hate. So difficult. So I was always trying to play the referee between

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:39:30 – 00:40:05)
They were always the 2 of them, and that’s before he got diagnosed with the cancer. So for several years, when my son’s mental illness, really got pretty bad he had my son’s mental illness, came out in anger in a lot of ways. So it was, not physically towards people, but it was a very volatile environment.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:40:05 – 00:40:28)
My poor younger son, that’s a another whole story. But so how could my friends you know, I felt like I was really living in a nightmare, but I was just trying to make sure everybody was okay. Keep them apart. Well and they were arguing. I would just try and  figure out how to go to your corners and make everybody happy and do what I needed to do for everyone.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:40:29 – 00:40:54)
And here’s the thing is that I am so fortunate that I have a team at my insurance agency who is always there for me. And in those 6 months, I didn’t have to worry about my business. Yes. I had to pay my bills, and I had to pay them, and I had to answer some emails and all of that.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:40:55 – 00:41:22)
But I did not have to be in the office. I did not have to be online. Yes. Again, there were things I had to take care of, but for the most part, that was removed from my life, and I could never have survived if that hadn’t happened. Something woulda had to give because I was able to then take all of my energy and time and devoted to what was going on at home.

Victoria Volk
(00:41:24 – 00:41:43)
And imagine all the people that don’t have that. And so thank you for acknowledging that it is up to us to create that for ourselves, to rally the people around you that fill the roles that are supportive.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:41:45 – 00:42:00)
Yeah. I am still to this day because they’re still doing it for me. I am just so incredibly grateful for these women, and I try and tell them as often as often as I can that it doesn’t sound insincere.

Victoria Volk
(00:42:01 – 00:42:26)
And just and you’re sharing your story, it just I can just feel the heaviness of what the environment was probably like living in between your son and your husband and how much of what your son was going through, how much of it do you think was grief of just witnessing what he was witnessing? I mean, did he look at his father like he that was his hero as you did your father?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:42:28 – 00:42:53)
I think so. I think so until they started having this kind of relationship. My son has problems processing his emotions, or I should say, he processes them to the extreme. So every little thing that happened, he took to the extreme. My husband could’ve said or did something, and my son can’t let anything roll off to his shoulders.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:42:55 – 00:43:32)
Since my husband is gone and my younger son is away at college, There’s a calmness, I often think how different the feel in the house is I think that on the one hand, but on the other hand, my son needs some help that I’ve kinda given this year to letting him grieve because look. As we know, grief is hard for everyone, and we all do it and process it. Different timelines, different terms. It comes. It goes.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:43:32 – 00:43:51)
You don’t know when it’s gonna show up. Even when you think everything is fine, the next thing you know, you’re crying. And for somebody like my son, it is even more difficult. But, he’s a work in progress and he’s still a concern for me?

Victoria Volk
(00:43:53 – 00:43:55)
You know what? We all are. Yes.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:43:55 – 00:43:55)
We all are

Victoria Volk
(00:43:55 – 00:43:56)
a work in progress.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:43:57 – 00:43:58)
Yes. You’re right.

Victoria Volk
(00:43:59 – 00:44:08)
Did they ever make a connection between the blood cancer and because, like, with the blood brain barrier, nothing.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:44:09 – 00:44:16)
Really? I kept saying, isn’t this is this related to this? Is this what nope. No. And it could be.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:44:16 – 00:44:39)
Maybe it’s just something. Why were they gonna take the time to figure out, all the pieces of the puzzle? Because at that point, it was what it was with the, blood cancer. There was nothing that could be done other than he was initially had started chemo. That was only supposed to try and extend his life for a little bit.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:44:39 – 00:44:40)
It was never going to be a cure.

Victoria Volk
(00:44:43 – 00:45:06)
You said something, I think it was on your website that you had this belief that it is what it is. Mhmm.  And Yeah. In grief recovery and what I’ve learned about grief is when people say that it’s generally a way to bypass our emotions. Do you still hold that belief?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:45:07 – 00:45:18)
No. I don’t hold that belief. When I said that, it really wasn’t about grief. It was about my life. It was this is my life.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:45:18 – 00:45:20)
It is what it is. Like,

Victoria Volk
(00:45:20 – 00:45:21)
When things happen about

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:45:21 – 00:45:21)
It. Yes.

Victoria Volk
(00:45:21 – 00:45:23)
Yes. When things happen. Yes.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:45:23 – 00:45:23)
Like, it

Victoria Volk
(00:45:23 – 00:45:24)
is what it is.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:45:24 – 00:45:40)
But Yes. But No control. But, no, I, a 1000% don’t believe it. That’s what I believed for too long, and It’s only been since that belief changed that my life doesn’t even resemble what it used to.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:45:40 – 00:45:48)
And that’s because I took control, and I continue to take control. And it’s an amazing feeling.

Victoria Volk
(00:45:48 – 00:45:59)
You mentioned the weight and shifting your focus and your mindset around that. In what other ways? What has opened up for you in the last 6 years.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:46:01 – 00:46:47)
Probably the next area that I focused on was money. It was a money troubles were a dirty, deep, dark secret for me, especially because I have I am a CPA no longer practicing, but I practice for 10 years, run a business. And for years, for a variety of reasons, and there was a ton of excuses that I will tell you that I was telling myself, which were, when my son was first diagnosed, none of his therapy was covered. I would stop at nothing. I didn’t care if I had to live in a shed, I was going to do whatever I could to help my son.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:46:47 – 00:47:14)
And so that kind of started, the downhill slide where, okay. I’ll take a 2nd mortgage. I’ll do this. I’ll do that. And then, it then morphed from there already being in trouble to, something that happened in the insurance industry in my state that caused me to lose 20% of my income or so right after we had bought our house, and it just kind of, like, continued.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:47:15 – 00:47:48)
And what wound up happening was I knew that we needed to make a change. Anytime that I would like just gently say to my husband, like, maybe you should pay attention to how much you’re spending at the grocery store. He would get depressed and anxious and take it to the extreme, and I couldn’t stand that. So I didn’t say anything. So I would keep it inside, and then things would get worse, and I would see what was happening.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:47:48 – 00:48:15)
And then since I’m self-employed, I have to pay my own income taxes, and I couldn’t make the payments. And then I’d say, okay. I’ll catch up next time. And then next thing it was a whole year, and it was a spiral, and I was too embarrassed to tell any person in my life, even my closest friends and family. I was mortified, and I realized actually, I’ll tell you what.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:48:15 – 00:48:32)
This was another moment. In February of 2020, right before lockdown, my cousin and I went to see Oprah live in Brooklyn. She was I don’t remember what she called it. It was like a transformational tour. It tour was kind of in connection with Weight Watchers, and she went to, like, 10 cities.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:48:32 – 00:48:46)
Each city, it was a whole day thing. And each city, she had a special guest star. And we went to this, and it was wonderful. And at the end of the day you know, I’m in a big arena, 16,000 people. The end of the day, they turned down the lights.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:48:46 – 00:49:23)
It’s just Oprah and the microphone, and she tells some story from her childhood, that was very vulnerable. And she said something like, What secret are you hiding? What is it that you are not addressing that you’re trying to ignore because you know you have it. And I’m gonna tell you, if you don’t take control. It’s going to erupt like a volcano, and you will have no control over what happens.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:49:24 – 00:49:39)
If you own up and take control now. You might not like what you need to do, but I can guarantee it’s gonna be better than that eruption.  And I started crying because I knew exactly what it was. It was the money.

Victoria Volk
(00:49:40 – 00:50:04)
Before we hear more about the secret Debbie knew she was keeping, I have a little shot of magic to share with you, something that has become an essential part of my creative flow, Magic Mind. Now I know life can get hectic, especially now during the holidays, and sometimes we need that extra boost to stay focused, energized, and alert. And, hello, family dynamics. Right? That’s where Magic Mind comes in.

Victoria Volk
(00:50:04 – 00:50:40)
It’s not your average energy drink. It’s a carefully crafted and patented blend of nootropics, adaptogens and other boosting ingredients designed to enhance your cognitive function and provide sustained energy throughout the day. I’ve been incorporating Magic Mind into my routine for a while now, and the results have been nothing short of impressive. I’m particularly fond of the calmness I feel that in turn reduces the overwhelm of everything I’m trying to accomplish that day. Whether it’s tackling a demanding workday or staying sharp during a creative session, like recording this podcast, Magic Mind has become my secret weapon.

Victoria Volk
(00:50:41 – 00:50:56)
But don’t just take my word for it. Listeners of Grieving Voices can now get an exclusive offer. Head to magicmind.com/grieving voices and enter the code grieving voices at checkout for 20% off your order. Yes. You heard that right.

Victoria Volk
(00:50:56 – 00:51:10)
20% off just for being a part of my podcast community. In January, they will also be launching in all sprouts markets. Why settle for the ordinary when you can experience the extraordinary with Magic Mind? Elevate your mind. Elevate your life.

Victoria Volk
(00:51:10 – 00:51:23)
Visit magicmind.com/grieving voices and use the code grieving voices for an exclusive discount. Trust me. Your mind will thank you. Now let’s get back to learning Debbie’s Secret, shall we?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:51:25 – 00:51:46)
I went home, and I thought, okay. If I’m you know? Then I really was trying to I wanted to sell my house. But I kinda ran into the same thing. You know, my husband, my son, I even tried to, like, plant a seed, give them a little time to, but that was tough.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:51:46 – 00:52:00)
So I thought, okay. Until I can get a that across I mean, I even had I had realtor come. We have a lot of fit like, things wrong with the house than it was, oh my goodness. This needs to be fit. Like, we can’t even put it on the market and I’ve gotta spend $20,000.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:52:00 – 00:52:13)
I don’t have $20,000. So I said, okay., Let me think. What else can I do? And I started by actually, this is when maybe it had been popular for a couple years selling things on Facebook.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:52:15 – 00:52:26)
And I thought, well, what good is that gonna do? But it’s kind of the same thing with the Weight Watchers thing. Right? like, what good is just going to the meeting? Well, what good is it if I just sell this thing?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:52:26 – 00:52:43)
How much am I gonna get? But it turned into fun. And I was running around my house looking for things that I could sell. And even if I sold something for $2. It was, like, so exciting because it was like, you see?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:52:43 – 00:52:54)
Look. I found some things that were locked away in my basement, I didn’t even know. I then actually started going on, and I can’t remember what website it was on. Mercari maybe. Selling and shipping.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:52:55 – 00:53:14)
And I turned it into, like, this whole fun game. And that kinda made me think, well, I did this. Let me research what other people do. What are other ways to make money? And and that was kind of like my next moment.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:53:14 – 00:53:30)
Also, then, at the same time, addressing where I was with my tax situation, wI was with my debt, I went to a I explored my options. Right? I went to a bankruptcy attorney. I went to a tax attorney. I you know?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:53:30 – 00:53:37)
And kinda came up with a plan, and I was taking control.

Victoria Volk
(00:53:39 – 00:53:42)
And was this at the same time as your husband’s decline?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:53:43 – 00:53:59)
Yeah. pretty much because my son was hospitalized in June of 2020, so that was February of 2020. So, yes, it was all kind of happening simultaneously, which also, really was a problem for me selling the house.

Victoria Volk
(00:54:01 – 00:54:13)
And energetically. Okay. Money is money is a currency. Right? Money is energy, and it I would argue it maybe wasn’t necessarily even about the money, but it was the it was what money meant.

Victoria Volk
(00:54:14 – 00:54:28)
Right? What money meant and where you were at in your life with money and that relationship with money. And so as you were making space energetically, did you start to see opportunities coming in?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:54:29 – 00:54:55)
I did because I opened my eyes to things out there that I never would have thought of before. Just like selling the Stop on Facebook or Shipping the things. Right? And then I started thinking, well, it was such a journey. I started thinking to myself, well, I can go to my insurance agency, right, and try and figure out a way to sell more and make more money, which I did look at that.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:54:55 – 00:55:09)
But It didn’t light me up. I had been looking. What is it? I always it not at me that I could never figure out what’s my passion? What’s my purpose?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:55:09 – 00:55:16)
Did I really wanna be an attorney? Did I wanna be a CPA?  Like, who knows? I’m watching my son now. He doesn’t know what the heck he wants to be.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:55:16 – 00:55:27)
He’s gonna be a 2nd semester junior. He’s he said the other day. Oh, I’m panic stricken to graduate because he has no idea what he wants to do. So I’ve been searching.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:55:28 – 00:55:50)
And, At the time, I had just started using these supplements that, a podcaster that I listened to, used and was selling.  And I thought, because I think I have a very you know? I’m leery. I’m a New Yorker. I’m like, oh, yeah.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:55:50 – 00:56:08)
This is just a ploy. And I listened to her talk about it for a year or so, and I said, oh goodness. Let me just try. And for me, it really made a difference, like, in my mood, in my energy. I, you know, I was, like, ready to go, but not in a cap there was no caffeine, so it wasn’t that kind of way.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:56:08 – 00:56:44)
And so I thought to myself, well, I’m can only be passionate about what I’m feel passionate about.  And I felt like this was really making a difference in my life, so I decided this must be where I need to go. Follow this this feeling. And, I really started, I think, at that time paying attention to, like, the messages that were being sent to me. Really trying to tune into my heart and my gut instead of my mind.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:56:45 – 00:57:12)
Because Earlier with that podcaster, actually, I signed up for a course of hers. It was more money than I could have ever imagined. Again, money was an issue. So my logical brain said, are you out of your mind? You’re supposed to be figuring out how to get more money, and now you’re spending money you don’t have, but something kept bringing me back back to signing up.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:57:12 – 00:57:26)
What was the draw? And I listened to that instead of my logical brain. And it was all about mindset. And that was, like, start of the start of my formal training on mindset.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:57:27 – 00:57:56)
And so it was that same podcaster who then had talked about this mastermind group that she belonged to. I had no idea what a mastermind was. She brought on her coach, and she was in an elite mastermind, which were business people who, were making over a certain amount of money  But he had, like, a basic level mastermind for people making, like, 0 to 500,000, and I thought, well, I’m making 0, so that’s perfect., I’m gonna join this mastermind.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:57:56 – 00:58:14)
They’re gonna show me how to sell this stuff, and here we go. And I walked into I I Like to say, I, like, walked into The Wizard of Oz. Where is this online world? I had no I had just been introduced to podcasts, for goodness sake. I had no idea this whole world existed.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:58:14 – 00:58:34)
And then I saw people who were taking their experiences and sharing and helping other people just like you’re doing., Right? Which when I think to myself, I was so stuck on, well, don’t they need some certification? Don’t they? You know?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:58:34 – 00:58:47)
Gosh. Who do you wanna learn from? I wanna learn from someone who walked in my shoes. Right?, Mean, none of our experiences are exactly identical, but there’s a lot of general stuff here that we can all relate to.

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:58:48 – 00:59:12)
And when I learned of that, I said, okay. I’m still taking my supplement. I like it and all, But that’s not it. And, it’s another whole story, but I started something at that time called the caregiver support squad, which was to help family caregivers learn to prioritize their own self care.

Victoria Volk
(00:59:13 – 00:59:21)
Which by that point, you’ve become very much an expert. Right? The hard knocks of caregiving. Right? For sure.

Victoria Volk
(00:59:21 – 00:59:22)
PhD in caregiving?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:59:22 – 00:59:30)
Yes. That’s right. I didn’t need to go and get that PhD from an accredited university. Life experience gives you all you need.

Victoria Volk
(00:59:32 – 00:59:33)
So when did the book come about?

Debbie R. Weiss
(00:59:35 – 01:00:08)
So what I discovered after I started the caregiver support squad is the people that I was working with, it was very hard for them and understandably, as I just spilled my guts to you, to them for them not to spend the time sharing the difficulties they were having with their loved one. And I didn’t want to be about that. I wanted to be about what can we do for you.  What lights you up? Let’s work together to figure out how we can work self-care into your life.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:00:09 – 01:00:47)
And I just wasn’t at a point where I could take on their difficulties. Because it was difficult for me to sit there and listen to other people’s difficulties, while I was in the thick of it. And at that time, I realized, I feel like what I’ve learned is broader message. Self-care for caregivers, a 1000%. But I think what I’ve really learned Is that a quote from The Wizard of Oz, which is my favorite now?

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:00:48 – 01:00:57)
Got it right here. Someone gave it to me in a little makeup bag. It’s from Glenda the Good Witch, and it says, you’ve always had the power, my dear. You just had to learn it for yourself.

Victoria Volk
(01:00:59 – 01:01:00)
I just got full body chills.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:01:01 – 01:01:39)
And how many times did I hear that quote and didn’t really get it? But when I heard it, I got it. And I want from there, that’s when I pivoted and said, if I was 50 plus and I didn’t know it, I consider myself a fairly intelligent person. There must be other people out there who are just like me, who just don’t think there’s another way. Who can tell you why they can’t because that was me.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:01:40 – 01:01:58)
So I get it. But yet I see what has happened since I shifted my mindset. And so I said, I need to reach all of those people and shake them and tell them, no. It doesn’t have to be this way. But how do I reach them?

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:01:59 – 01:02:06)
It’s like everything else. Right? Podcasts, social media. Like, you just wanna stand and scream. I want a megaphone that everybody should hear.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:02:08 – 01:02:28)
And, again, I never wanted to write a book. As I said, I’m a numbers person. Never thought, ever dreamt of it.  And I listened to the signs. And, I, again, with a different podcast, a woman was on being interviewed, and she helped first time authors get their story out there.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:02:28 – 01:02:41)
And I thought, this is not even a regular podcast I listen to. This was meant for me to be heard. Like, this I was meant to listen to this because other things were kept telling me about a book, and I was like, no. I can’t do that. I can’t.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:02:41 – 01:02:56)
I can’t. I can’t. And I connected with her, and, I guess that was, that was it. I said, let me join the course. And then, couple weeks later, my husband was diagnosed with the cancer.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:02:56 – 01:03:30)
And I went to my therapist, and I said, I’m embarrassed that I’m even bringing this up. When this is going on in my life, I feel so selfish that I’m actually still considering taking this course. And she said, no. I disagree with you. She said this is exactly what you need because you need something right now because you’re gonna be going through an intense period of time, we don’t know what that’s gonna look like, but you need something completely separate from that just for yourself.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:03:31 – 01:03:46)
And, being the a student that I am, I’m like, well, what if I can’t show up every week? Or what if there’s homework and I didn’t do the homework. And what if I have to read out loud? And then I’m gonna be embarrassed because I don’t know how to write. I mean, I had every excuse in the book.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:03:46 – 01:03:54)
And she said, who cares? Who cares? And I thought, well, I guess, at least, I have a good excuse. Right? You know what?

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:03:54 – 01:04:25)
I won’t show up as a bad student. I people will understand. And, you know, the minute that I was in, it was a very intimate group, all writing about different things, all first time authors. And, it was it was an amazing experience that I’m still on that has started me on a trajectory that I could never ever. I wouldn’t I wouldn’t have bet, a bazillion dollars that I would ever be an author.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:04:25 – 01:05:10)
And now writing my 2nd book and already thinking about other books, it’s like, who am I? And all because, basically, I followed I followed the whispers and really tried to tune into my gut instead of the I can’t that always comes into my head, and that’s one of the reasons my book is named On Second Thought, Maybe I Can, because I spent my life saying I can’t and telling myself and others all the reasons why I couldn’t do something. And it could be a small thing or a big thing. And, if we just take a pause and see what lives on the other side and say, well, wait a minute. Maybe I can.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:05:11 – 01:05:12)
That’s where my life has changed.

Victoria Volk
(01:05:15 – 01:05:18)
So good. That was all so good.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:05:18 – 01:05:25)
Yeah. I never said it like that before. Boy, that did sound good, but it’s true. It’s true. It’s so true.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:05:25 – 01:05:35)
I just hope I get that across. I really mean it. And I hope this doesn’t come across as bragging because it’s not

Victoria Volk
(01:05:35 – 01:05:38)
No. I’m gonna say, I want you to brag.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:05:38 – 01:06:00)
Okay. Well, I’m gonna tell you because I’m preparing right now. It’ll have been done by the time this airs for a master class tomorrow. And, Lauren, that’s my writing coach who I still work with. She said to me the other day, have you sat back and thought about all that has happened to you this year?

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:06:01 – 01:06:11)
It’s like, what do you mean? She starts naming the things. I’m not it’s like something happens. It’s fun. It’s exciting.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:06:11 – 01:06:25)
Onto the next thing. Onto the next thing. Onto the next thing. And I realized that that’s something that I need to get better at is in I do enjoy the moment when it happens, but then I’m very quick to say, okay. And what do I have to do next?

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:06:25 – 01:06:44)
What are we on to next? What are we on to next? And I that’s my personality. But looking back and and celebrating the wins, The big wins and the small wins. So my husband passed away December 30th, and does it the Sprinkle of Hearts store opened January 14th.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:06:44 – 01:07:21)
That was another whole thing that was in the works, prior. And a week after my husband died, I had a TikTok video that went viral. I wasn’t even on like, I was on TikTok, but I don’t go on TikTok. I had a virtual assistant who was posting on social media. And at the time I was making videos every day with no makeup, I still do that a lot, walking my dog in the morning, and I just would turn on my camera and say whatever was on my mind, like, whatever.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:07:22 – 01:07:57)
No preconceived nothing. And most of the time, first take, that was that. And this particular day, it started with it’s been 8 days since my husband died. And I went on to say that everything in my life feels out of control, and I think I was talking about, I’m eating cookies for breakfast, my exercise routine, and then went on, obviously, to say how my whole life is turned upside down. And it wound up getting 3,700,000 views.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:07:59 – 01:08:23)
I got, oh my gosh. the most amazing outpouring of love through comments. I was I was blown away. Blown away. I just you you just don’t know.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:08:23 – 01:08:33)
You just don’t know.  I gained, like, I don’t know. 59,000 followers.  It was it was crazy. It was so crazy.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:08:34 – 01:09:02)
But so crazy in such an amazing way because it literally felt like the whole world was giving me a hug. And for whatever I said, I must have said something about walking, and it turned into this thing like, Debbie, I’m gonna walk with you. Mhmm. Like, I’m gonna walk this journey with you of, like, getting your life back together. It was so that’s how the year started.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:09:02 – 01:09:19)
And then, I was able I was, let me just say, like, nobody. I have no connections, so I wanna make that clear. It’s not like, oh, she’s got a name and no. No. No.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:09:20 – 01:09:26)
I’m an Oprah insider. $25. Right. I don’t know how many other people. Oh, millions.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:09:26 – 01:09:37)
Right? I get an email. Oprah’s gonna be taping one of her insider shows in New York. I live in New Jersey. On this date, we, and it’s about we.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:09:38 – 01:09:53)
And so they just asked, only respond if you, a 100% can make it because there’s limited tickets. Anyway, it was a whole thing. I was visualizing. I had a whole thing going on. I wind up getting the tickets.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:09:54 – 01:10:18)
It was an amazing experience less than a 100 people in a little office not a little, but in the hearst office building, so not little. And at the end of the it was 2 shows, actually. And at the end of the taping of the 2nd show, Oprah was, like, hanging out. And I had taken my book. And in my book, I have the story about February 2020.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:10:19 – 01:10:33)
And so I wrote something in the front of the book. I put a bookmark, where that was, and she was take she was wonderful. She was taking selfies with people, and I was right there. I don’t even wanna say stage. It was a little riser.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:10:34 – 01:10:55)
And I’m waiting, looking for something. I’m waiting, and she comes up to me, and I’m holding my book. And she looks like only talking to me. And I got to tell her, you changed my life by something you said in I saw you February 2020. And she said, what did I say?

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:10:55 – 01:11:15)
And I told her. And then I went on to tell her, and I wrote about it in this book. You know, because of that, that eventually led to this book. It’s this is my, like, crappy printed picture, but it was it was incredible. I mean, we walked out of there, my cousin and I, and she said, what’s wrong with you?

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:11:15 – 01:11:26)
And I said, what do you mean? And she said, you’re so calm. And she started screaming, you just gave your book to Oprah. And I thought, oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:11:26 – 01:11:47)
Like, how did this even happen? So and then a few weeks later, my book was published. That was actually before it was published, so I had this wonderful book launch. And then I represented all family caregivers on The Kelly Clarkson Show. It actually comes out today as we’re talking oh my gosh.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:11:48 – 01:12:00)
Congratulations. Thank you. Yep. So she has a segment at the end of each of her show called what I’m liking. And so it was a Skype interview, in honor of National Family Caregiver Month.

Victoria Volk
(01:12:00 – 01:12:02)
December is National Family

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:12:02 – 01:12:05)
Caregiver Month. November was. Oh, November 12. In November. Yes.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:12:05 – 01:12:13)
So it was November. So it comes out today, which is the 28th, November 28th. But you can always go to Kelly’s YouTube channel and find it.

Victoria Volk
(01:12:14 – 01:12:23)
Please send me the link, and I will put that in the show notes. I will. And I can’t believe I completely missed National Caregiver Month. I, like, completely missed that.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:12:23 – 01:12:25)
Well, that’s okay. Now you won’t next year.

Victoria Volk
(01:12:25 – 01:12:32)
Now I won’t next year. Yeah., Those are huge wins. It sounds like a lot of full-circle moments.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:12:32 – 01:13:00)
Yeah. Exactly. And like I said, it’s not like I I mean, I just explained my life to you. None of those things I could have ever imagined, predicted nothing, and it never would have happened if I didn’t just make that switch in my head and start viewing my life, my Control of my life and my circumstances differently and following my heart.

Victoria Volk
(01:13:01 – 01:13:41)
All of that responsibility that you have felt and put on your shoulders and words was on your shoulders in caregiving for others and everything that you had on your plate to do. Turning that sense of responsibility on its head and putting it towards your life and taking responsibility then for your life, that’s really the best use of the strength, responsibility. Because it is a strength. I’m a Youmap certified Youmap coach, which your son may be interested in that. I had my son take the Youmap assessment when he went to college.

Victoria Volk
(01:13:41 – 01:13:51)
He’s going into nursing. My daughters took it. I took it. It was life-affirming for me. I can I’ll put that in the show notes.

Victoria Volk
(01:13:51 – 01:13:51)
But okay.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:13:51 – 01:13:52)
That would be great.

Victoria Volk
(01:13:52 – 01:14:20)
Youmap is amazing tool to help you discern and determine what is the best fit for you. And it’s about career and life satisfaction. But I think the message in this podcast is support, self-care, taking responsibility, and really what that message on your from the Wizard of Oz is recognizing the power that we all have within us.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:14:21 – 01:14:31)
Exactly. Exactly. And that’s what changed my life, realizing, no. It’s not up to everybody else. It’s not predetermined.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:14:32 – 01:14:46)
It’s up to how I respond to these things, how I choose to respond. And that’s what’s made the difference. And any it can make the difference for anyone regardless of what’s going on in your life. There’s always something you can do to take control.

Victoria Volk
(01:14:48 – 01:14:52)
How do you intend to spend December 30th this year?

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:14:52 – 01:15:01)
Gosh. That’s a great question.  I don’t know. Through the whole year, as we all know, those firsts. Right.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:15:01 – 01:15:18)
My 1st anniversary, Valentine’s Day. It was just his birthday, the end of October. Thanksgiving was his favorite holiday. They’re rough. My youngest son’s birthday is December 31st.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:15:21 – 01:15:42)
Mhmm. So it just makes it so hard because I hate that he will think that they’ll forever be tied together. And, he’ll be 21. So, you know, I my older son, I’m not really a cemetery person.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:15:42 – 01:16:02)
I have not been back there. We wanted to go on his birthday, but for whatever or my son wanted to go on his birthday, but, there was that was closed or whatever when we wanted to go. If that’s what my son wants, then that’s what I’ll do. I’m not sure. I think right now, I’m not sure.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:16:02 – 01:16:29)
Taking it kinda one day at a time. But I do find that, even now, thinking as I’m talking, you know, last year at this time, I know what was happening. He was in the hospital, like, reliving that hell that he and I went through differently. I wanna get away from that feeling. Because that was the toughest time for me.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:16:30 – 01:16:37)
So, I think I’m trying to take one day at a time. How’s that? That’s the answer. One day at a time. So you can’t?

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:16:37 – 01:16:56)
I don’t have I don’t have it.  I don’t know. I don’t know. And I’ve find that I do this a lot. I have a lot of anticipation about these days, and I’ve spent so much time beforehand leading up to it that I don’t wanna say it’s anticlimactic, but it’s almost like I’m okay by that day.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:16:56 – 01:17:12)
I’ve kind of, like, been so worried about it beforehand that I’ve worked through it by the time I get there. And in a way, I want that because I want that for my son. Well you know, for my son who’s turning 21. Right.

Victoria Volk
(01:17:12 – 01:17:31)
And and by sitting with it Mhmm. And having that time to sit with it before, you can be a better you can help him sit in his grief maybe a little bit easier for you yeah. Maybe. I  don’t know. I mean, it’s hard to see your kids hurting to worst part.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:17:31 – 01:17:35)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. That’s that’s the hard part.

Victoria Volk
(01:17:35 – 01:17:36)
To him.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:17:36 – 01:17:52)
Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. My little guy, the one who’s gonna be 21, he’s it’s he’s a different person, obviously. And, he’s he was more removed because he wasn’t, he was here, obviously.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:17:52 – 01:18:21)
He’s not there in school all the time, but he was more removed from the day to day, especially between, when it really got intense from, whenever he leaves the end of August until he came home on December 16th and only 2 weeks before. So he wasn’t it wasn’t his reality. And it and then it’s not his reality when he went back to school. Right? He’s of course, it doesn’t matter where you are.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:18:21 – 01:18:47)
But when you’re not living In that space and that place, and, he’s got his separate life that he doesn’t equate with the rest of us. I think that gave him separation. Who knows down the road when and how it’ll come back, like what I said earlier. And we all know People process at different times. He really has not had, too much visible grieving.

Victoria Volk
(01:18:48 – 01:19:30)
There was something you said earlier about shaking the tree and how just being kind of on the other side of this now and still working through it, right, because we all are always a work in progress, but there was so many parallels that I drew from what you were sharing into how I feel about grief and how I just you know, the megaphone and I that’s why my art my art for my podcast is me on an island with a megaphone because you feel like you’re alone. You feel like you don’t have a choice. You wanna scream from the rooftops. And for me, it’s like it has two meanings because I also wanna scream the message that it there is light at the end of the tunnel. There is.

Victoria Volk
(01:19:30 – 01:19:39)
Is there a tunnel? I mean, how long is it? I mean, that’s up to you, really. I mean, you do have some power in that. You know, there is no time line.

Victoria Volk
(01:19:39 – 01:19:56)
You’re you’re always gonna have I think it was grief. It’s like people just think, like, I’m never gonna be sad. You’re like that you have to get over it. And getting over it means that you’re not gonna be sad anymore. And the thing even with grief and the work that I do with clients, it’s I never promise you’re never gonna feel sad again.

Victoria Volk
(01:19:57 – 01:20:16)
I tell you, you will feel sad because those anniversaries come around. Right? You’re still gonna feel something. And you will because that relationship continues. The relationship with your husband is still going to continue, just in a different capacity in how it lives within you.

Victoria Volk
(01:20:17 – 01:20:44)
And that’s the thing that we have a choice over is do I want this thing to, like, pull me down, take me out of my life experience. Have me checking out of my own existence, or can I allow it to move through me and with me to help me expand and recognize my power and see my own potential?

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:20:46 – 01:21:00)
Exactly. Exactly. I mean, I couldn’t I couldn’t agree more. And I do feel like, I do, you know, something happens. Been some looking up in the ceiling or,  talking to him all the time.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:21:00 – 01:21:38)
What you know, I I feel his presence. I feel comfort knowing that he’s at peace, at least, you know, out of his physical body, whatever you believe, but at least I know he’s no longer suffering in that way. And, I can wish every day for the rest of my life that it didn’t turn out this way, but that’s not gonna help me? Right? I mean, it doesn’t work this way.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:21:38 – 01:22:06)
Life takes twists and turns that none of us would choose. But it’s how we respond to those twists and turns and to sit here and feel sorry for myself and hope and wish and why and question. You know? Yeah. Of course, we all have those moments, but they should be far and few between, especially as we get a little further away from the experience.

Victoria Volk
(01:22:07 – 01:22:10)
Is there anything else that you would like to share?

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:22:10 – 01:22:38)
I think I said everything I have in my head. You got it all out of me and then some that I wasn’t expecting. So, I really do feel like I hope that you and I both got our same similar messages across that if you’re a person out there thinking because I was thinking, oh, sure. They’re saying that, but they don’t know my circumstance. Right?

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:22:38 – 01:22:53)
I could say, oh, but yeah. But I’m dealing with this and this and this. Mm-mm. I won’t have it, and you shouldn’t have it either. There are certainly times where life gets more intense.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:22:53 – 01:23:01)
Right? Those 6 months that my husband was dying, it was super intense for sure. But you know what? I wrote my book.

Victoria Volk
(01:23:02 – 01:23:40)
And the key thing here and I wanna just circle back to what you said about the caregiving groups and how it was too much for you to hear, their current struggles and things. And it really does parallel grief support groups too because they can be the most supportive places, but they can also hinder your progress because It really is a repetition of the story. Right? It’s this it that’s what happens at these. You can create great bonds and friendships, but at the same time, is it moving you forward?

Victoria Volk
(01:23:40 – 01:23:51)
You’re not taking action. It’s the action that you take that makes the difference. And that’s what I heard you say when you were speaking about that too, and same with grief same with grief.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:23:52 – 01:24:22)
Absolutely. I’m such a big fan of support groups because I do find them helpful when you are in a room with people who understand. I did not choose to do a grief support group because I felt like I didn’t need it. Whereas, I’ve been in many other types of support groups and more recently with family members of those who suffer with mental illness. And, there’s times when I need it and times when I don’t and times when I’m on there thinking, okay.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:24:22 – 01:24:44)
This is not healthy for me. So, it it really just does depend upon where you are, the mix of people, the facilitator, but you just have to know what’s good for you pay attention to what’s working and not working for you. And listen to the whispers. Action is yeah. Listen to the whispers, and action is so the key.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:24:44 – 01:25:02)
When other people we’re reflecting on my experience, and they said to me, well, you took action. And I don’t think I recognize that since so many of us think about all these things. Right? And, actually, I don’t even remember what it was. It might have been about the book.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:25:02 – 01:25:19)
And a woman I ran into, she said, gosh. You know? You did it. She said, for 3 years, I had this idea, whatever it was. And she said, I just found, writings about it or whatever it was, 3 3 years later collecting dust.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:25:21 – 01:25:35)
And, 3 years is gonna pass. A year is gonna pass. 2 months is gonna pass. Do you wanna have that collecting dust? Whatever that is, whatever progress you’re looking to make, time is going to move.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:25:36 – 01:25:38)
Make make the best use of it.

Victoria Volk
(01:25:38 – 01:25:40)
It waits for no one.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:25:40 – 01:25:41)
That’s it.

Victoria Volk
(01:25:41 – 01:25:44)
Where can people find you if they would love to connect with you?

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:25:45 – 01:25:52)
Find out the yes. Is the best place. Thank you. It’s Debbier. The r is very important.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:25:52 – 01:26:13)
Otherwise, you wind up in a realtor. Debbierweiss.com. And all my information is there. I am starting a group coaching program will launch soon after this podcast airs, so it’s starting on January 9th. So if you’re interested, go check it out.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:26:13 – 01:26:33)
I’ve got some other offerings on there, and I also have a bunch of free different downloads, help you find your Inner power, find time for self-care, and then, some morning what I call morning sprinkles of goodness, which is some journal prompts and whatnot. So and all my social media and all the things are all there.

Victoria Volk
(01:26:34 – 01:26:38)
Is the January 9th, is that, group is that for caregivers?

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:26:39 – 01:26:46)
Nope.  It’s for any woman who is ready to make a change in their life and rewrite their story.

Victoria Volk
(01:26:47 – 01:26:56)
Yes. I’m all about that. Thank you so much. This has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for everything that you’ve shared.

Victoria Volk
(01:26:56 – 01:27:20)
And even if it was the 1st time you’ve shared it, it is my honor to have been a witness and to hear it. So thank you so much for sharing it with my listeners. My thoughts are with you and your family as you go through the holiday coming up and your son in the anniversary. And, it’s that’s where you have to rely on, take your own advice. Right?

Victoria Volk
(01:27:20 – 01:27:25)
Self-care Yes. Do what you need to do for you. So thank you so much for being here.

Debbie R. Weiss
(01:27:25 – 01:27:28)
Thank you for having me. This has been cathartic.

Victoria Volk
(01:27:28 – 01:27:35)
Oh, I’m so glad., Thank you so much. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ep 154 Q&A | When Is It Too Soon To Start a New Relationship?

Q&A | When Is It Too Soon To Start a New Relationship?

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

Victoria Volk: Hey. Hey. Hey. Thank you for being here and for pushing play on this episode. Today, I’m going to share a Q and A episode about a topic I think Tom Dickerry and Harry and their mother has an opinion about, including myself, which I had personal experience with this as a child, and knowing what I know now. I know why. What happened, happened?

Victoria Volk: But anyway, let me get into the question and into the answer, and I’ll share a little bit more on my personal experience with this question. But today’s question is, “When does it too soon to start a relationship after the death of your spouse or significant other?”
Now, there’s no correct air quotes correct answer to this question, but there’s all kinds of estimates. There’s even an absurd mathematical equation that you’ve maybe heard that says that you need to wait a year for a year that you were married or with that person.

Victoria Volk: So along with our personal experiences, is that time is not the key factor when a person should start dating after the death of someone they love. We know that time doesn’t heal emotional wounds, and we also know that many people have waited a year or two or five or ten or even twenty years after their significant other has died. And this next relationship still failed. And the majority of those failures were not necessarily because the two people didn’t belong together. It was that the widow or the widower or the person left behind was not emotionally complete with their significant other who had died. And absent that kind of completion, the new relationship is almost guaranteed to fail. So the other danger is that a person can feel, air quotes, feel ready to date or start a new relationship relatively soon after the death. It will actually say estrangement too. I mean, someone doesn’t have to die. You can just relationship can end or you can become estranged. But I’ll just say death for clarity and just for conciseness of this episode, but I’m also talking about those strange relationships as well or those that have ended of their significant other, but that feeling can be predicated on loneliness. And other factors, not necessarily because they are emotionally complete with their significant other who died.

Victoria Volk: So let me say that again because there was a lot of information in there. So even though you can feel ready, for a new relationship, that feeling can be predicated on loneliness and also other factors. But not necessarily because you are emotionally complete. So the time to start a new relationship is only after, air quotes after, having taken actions to discover and complete what was left emotionally unfinished in the earlier relationship. And you’ll notice that I’m not saying any time frames at all, and that’s not to say that a week after your significant other dies or the relationship ends that you should start dating, it’s meant to indicate that it’s the actions of completion that will dictate when you are ready to start a new relationship. So that you don’t mix the old relationship in with the new one and sabotage it in advance. So it’s only after you take grief recovery actions that you’ll have a clearer sense of whether or not you’re ready and truly only you the person left behind can answer that for yourself.

Victoria Volk: But it’s, again, we can easily confuse that feeling of being ready. And yet when we start that new relationship, we’re seeing the same patterns repeating themselves. And why is that? It’s because we haven’t become emotionally complete with that previous relationship. And so as you’ve listen to this podcast for any period of time, you’ll see and you’ve heard and understood by now, that we drag our baggage with us from the past into the present, unless we look at it, unless we unpack that baggage and unless we look at that luggage that we’ve been dragging around. This is why when people say, I don’t have to dig up the past. I don’t have to look at the past. I’ll just forget it. I’ll bury it. I’ll sweep it under the rug. This is why these patterns keep repeating in your life. You can have failed relationship after failed relationship because you’re not consciously aware of what those patterns are. And the only way to become aware of what those patterns are that are repeating is to understand them, is to have awareness about them. Where did they come from? Where did they originate? Nine times out of ten, I’ll even say ten times out of ten, it originated from your family of origin. Because when we are our backs are against the wall and we’re feeling challenged and we’re feeling like we’re in an uncomfortable position, we will resort to what we know in those situations. And what we’ve learned in those situations in the past is how we’ll respond in the present and in the future unless we have an awareness and acknowledge that the past is influencing our present and then we choose new tools and new awareness to change those patterns of behavior. And this is why grief recovery is very much an educational process as much as it is a transformative one.

Victoria Volk: And I say grief recovery because that’s the program that I facilitate in my program do grief differently. So you’ll hear you would have heard both terms used interchangeably. But that is essentially what I’m talking about when I talk about do grief differently is grief recovery as well as the Youmap, which is another component of do grief differently, which answers the question when you’re kind of when I just had a consultation just a while ago and that I finished and what you learn through grief recovery. It’s like you’ve addressed all this grief and you’ve addressed all this stuff from the past. Now what? Well, the Youmap is the now what? It’s how you move forward. It’s becomes your lighthouse for moving forward. Which is why both programs together are so transformative and impactful on people’s lives.

Victoria Volk: And so coming back to this question, my personal experience in this is that As a child when my father had passed away, my mother quickly remarried within a couple of years. She was in within a couple years, she was in a new relationship and remarried. And at the time, there was no communication about why that was or, like, I wasn’t privy because of my age, I suppose, to why my mother was in my mind, jumping into another relationship so quickly when I really didn’t even have personally an opportunity to grieve my dad here on thrown into another huge change that we didn’t even talk about. Like, I was no I had no part of that conversation. It was, this is what’s happening, and you just accept it. And in my mother’s defense, she was doing what she thought was best. Like, she wanted she herself was lacking the confidence and security that she felt she needed. To raise my brother and I who he was a teenager and I was eight at the time, nine, ten going, getting to those pre-teen years. And she felt I believe that she needed that support financially and emotionally and just that companionship and her and my dad were married for seventeen years when he passed. She thought they were gonna grow old and die together. And so and she was very young. I mean, she, you know, my father was forty four. She was forty three. When he passed away, still young. And you just don’t expect that when you’re that young. And while you have young children, and I know many people listening to this probably are themselves in this situation, or you were a kid that was in this situation where your parents remarried or got into another relationship.

Victoria Volk: And so I think knowing now what I know about grief and the why behind without my mom even having to say it. Right? Because we have not had that conversation, but specifically about why, although she is kind of sprinkled in what I just said the fact that she didn’t know what to do. Well, how am I supposed to raise two kids on my own and I have this house and the law needs to be made and what if repairs need to be made? And I think she was just very overwhelmed with all of that and felt like she needed somebody to support her. In moving forward. And was he the right person for her? I don’t know, but that marriage failed. Right? And I think it’s because the reasoning for going into it was not the right reason. Right? Like but I think everything’s learning. Everything is learning. And he did end up passing away of emphysema quite a few years ago. But he was a big part of my life in all my teen years. He taught me how to drive a stick shift. He taught me how to drive a car. And he was a big part of my life. But I think when you are a parent and you’re in that situation and you’re unsure what to do.

Victoria Volk: One of my guests a long time ago had shared that and I think this is great advice, and I’ll add on to it. But I think she had shared something to the effect of she made the conscious decision herself to not make any big decisions for one year. No big moves, no big career changes, none of those things, no big changes or moves or anything like that, no relationships or anything for the first year that after her spouse had passed away. And I think that’s great advice. I think how do you even find your does it take a year to find your bearings? I mean, maybe for some people, it takes five. Again, there’s no timeline to when you should when you are ready for another relationship. But again, it comes back to have you emotionally become complete with relationship so that you’re setting up your next relationship or your future relationship for success. And that’s really the goal isn’t it, is to have a successful relationship. Like, we don’t go into it thinking, oh my god. I’m just however long we’re together, I’ll just, you know, it is what it is. I think we hope for the best when we embark on sharing our life with somebody.

Victoria Volk: And so I think there’s a lot of and especially if you have children, there’s a lot of decision making that needs to go into that as well. It’s not as cut and dry as if you’re single and alone and, you know, it’s just you, you’re responsible for yourself. But I think we all come to those conclusions in our own time and people can raise an eyebrow at no matter what you do, they’ll think it’s too soon or it’s you should be dating by now or whatever other people’s timelines are. But they don’t see the personal work that perhaps you’re doing that’s unseen. Right? They might not know that you’ve gone through grief recovery with a counselor or a therapist or that you’re even seeing a therapist. Right? Like, not everybody dishes everything to everybody.

Victoria Volk: And so we can make these decisions for ourselves and still that we feel are positive and healthy and other people still aren’t going to fully understand our decision making and you owe no on the next explanation either. I wanna say that. Like oh, no one an explanation. My mom didn’t owe me an explanation, but would it have been nice? To be a part of the conversation. Yeah. Would it have been nice to have to feel heard and what my thoughts were even if my mother didn’t agree with them? Yes. But it was suck it up, buttercup. It is what it is. And so adaptability became one of my huge strengths from a very, very, very young age. And it’s still in one of my it’s actually one of my top ten strengths. Because I’ve had to learn to adapt to my environment many times over.

Victoria Volk: And so all these experiences that we have I’m, you know, I’ll bring up the Youmap is what changes our strengths over time. It’s our life experience and the things that we go through and endure and that help us build our own resiliency in challenging times, including death of a loved one or a spouse or a significant other or an end of a relationship because we’re taught how to acquire things and acquire people, but not what to do when we lose them. Right? And so grief recovery is the what to do when you lose them. And we’re simply not taught those skills and those tools and that knowledge from a young age. We’re just, we’re not.

Victoria Volk: And so that’s part of my mission here and why I started this podcast is so that we can talk about grief like we talk about the weather. So if you found this episode helpful, please share it leave a review if you feel so inclined to. I would love I read them all. I would love to hear your review. Share it with my audience as well and share it with a friend who you think is could find this information helpful. Maybe he’s in this situation and maybe just needs a little hug with words because I want this episode to feel like a hug with words that it is possible to move forward It is possible to enjoy a life of fulfillment even after death of a loved one spouse, significant other the love of your life, it is possible. And again, thank you so much for listening and pushing play. And I hope you come back next week. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.

 

Ep 143 Laurie-Ann Murabito | An Eternal Optimist

Laurie-Ann Murabito | An Eternal Optimist

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

Being an eternal optimist means always looking on the bright side and having hope, no matter what obstacles might attempt to push you off your path.

Some people may not necessarily be eternal optimists. However, they’ve become incredibly good at reframing a challenging situation for the better.

I would say I am more of a “reframing” type. However, this week’s guest, Laurie-Ann, can remember being an eternal optimist since she was a little girl. And as I dug more deeply during our conversation, it was discovered that being the strong one for those around her was a behavior emulated by her mother as she grew up.

Laurie-Ann shares about the loss of her mother very recently to cancer and the death of her first husband, where she found herself a widow at age 36 before they even reached their first anniversary. She additionally shares a funny story about her father. A bike accident caused him to go blind in one eye. However, that did not deter her from offering her father a little perspective, probably when he needed it most.

We all have a story to tell. Laurie-Ann helps others tell their stories through authentic storytelling. Loss has shaped her as a speaking coach and how she shows up on stage and writes her speeches. But perhaps, her optimistic energy has helped her stay grounded in the one thing she knows how to do and what she does best – reframe the weave the worst of stories into a tapestry of gold.

RESOURCES:

CONNECT:

_______

NEED HELP?

  • National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
  • Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor

If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.

Are you enjoying the podcast? Check out my bi-weekly newsletter, The Unleashed Letters.

Victoria Volk: Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices. Today, my guest is Laurie Ann Muirbito, She is a public speaker. But first, I wanna share if you listened last week that I was going to change how I was gonna run this podcast a little bit. Forgoing the whole format of focusing on nonprofits and things, And I’m just gonna go with the flow and share content that I feel is on my heart or mind for that week what I feel I wanna talk about, who I’m speaking with, just go with the flow. So that’s how I’m going to move forward with this podcast, and I’m excited to say that the first conversation for this newly decided format is with Lori Anne. And so I’m going to have her fully introduce herself, and thank you for being here.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Thank you. So I am a reformed painfully shy girl who couldn’t even make eye contact who accidentally became a professional speaker. Funny story there. And I spoke on leadership and corporate engagement and would help companies and worked with a lot of the Fortune five hundred and one thousand companies. And then I just got tired of hopping on airplanes. And it was all because of a text message that I took a little bit of a pivot to help entrepreneurs such as yourself, new coaches, Victoria, to start leveraging speaking opportunities to grow their audience and fill out their programs. Because there are so many opportunities for all of us to be sharing our story and our solution with more people.

Victoria Volk: And so thank you for being here. And before I forget, what was the text? You can’t throw that out there and not share what the text was.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: That’s true. The text message was Lori and Do you write speeches? The people. And the answer was no. But because I kinda knew her, I said, I’ll help you.
And We met for coffee, and she was, like, three years away from retiring from her government job. And at that point, you will stand on your head for three more years to finish out your time. But I helped her craft a presentation because she had a side hustle that was kind of going to become her retirement hustle, if you will. And she was a stylist a personal stylist. And she had been successfully losing money for five years. Her husband said, you can’t do this when you retire. And so I was like, oh, I’ll teach you how to get booked. I’ll teach you how to write a presentation that’s compelling. Captivating and most importantly converting. And after her very first presentation, she walked away with two referrals to two other places to speak and three full-paying clients. In my books, that was a home run, and I that I was like, wonder if other coaches and consultants would like to know what I do and how to leverage speaking opportunities. And that’s how I kinda, like, got into the spot.

Victoria Volk: It was kind of a happenstance conversation for me too. Someone said, well, you wrote a book about grief, didn’t you? And I was totally looking to assist business owners, entrepreneur, solo entrepreneur, in just, like, one off conversations of how to, like, where are they stuck? And that’s what I was working towards, and this and she said that to me and I’m like, well, yeah, I did. It didn’t even occur to me that grief was something that I knew inside out. And so I’m glad that I asked about that text because oftentimes people ask us for what they need, right, that they know that we can offer them And if you are have experienced a lot of grief in your life, you have knowledge, you have wisdom, you have hinds the gift of hindsight to reflect on your life. And so what and you often ask yourself, what do I really wanna do? And the hint may be in what people are asking of you.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Yes. You have to listen very carefully.

Victoria Volk: So thank you for sharing that story. You actually are my speaking coach and it was kind of a no-brainer the last time we spoke to have you on as on my podcast because you’ve had a lot of loss and recent loss, big losses. And what struck me is that I didn’t even know your mother had passed away. I knew she was sick, but when we got on her call, I didn’t know she had passed away because you were still showing up. You’re still showing up for me and the other people that are in our mastermind. And I had no idea. I was like, none the wiser. And people might from the outside might say, oh, you’re so strong and say all these myths about grief, and are you really okay? They’re expecting you to fall apart too. So can you just share, like, your reflection on the well, first of all, let’s let’s start yeah. We’ll just I’ll let you take this.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: I’ll just share that. I’m not the sort of person to oh, my mother just died and put that out on social media and make the big announcement. My husband kind of did so. He put it out and he was like he put my mother’s obituary out there. But I’m not that sort of person. Probably because I don’t feel that I needed to have all of these people say, oh, I’m so sorry for your loss, when it was actually a beautiful experience. So my mother was diagnosed on Victoria, you don’t know this. Well, you know part of this. My mother was diagnosed with leukemia and like, sometime around February, March, there was a lot of tests that were going on. And my mother lives in Ohio. So she lives about a 12-hour drive away from where me and two of my other sisters are. And she lives close to one of my sisters. Who was taking her to the doctor’s appointment. And so and literally, on March 23rd, they’ve got the final diagnosis. My sister in Ohio called to share the news. And that my mother was going to proceed with chemotherapy. So, and she did well on the chemo. Until she just started to get too tired and she was tired of being tired. She was tired of being weak. She was tired of, like, she couldn’t even go to the bathroom by herself. And it was at that point that she was, like I’m just I’m done. I’m done with the treatments. I’m done with the blood work. I’m done with the getting platelets. I mean, she was literally had to get blood transfusions probably twice a week. Wow. Yeah. So that’s a little too frequent. She just decided she was like, I’m just done. So it’s a death can actually be a beautiful experience. And I have experienced one death prior my life got it back in 2004, and it was my first husband. And we hadn’t even been married that long. But again, both of them were a form of cancer. So it wasn’t a car accident. It wasn’t something that was really sudden. I knew it was going to happen. So I think when it’s gonna happen, like one I could step into being the person that my mother needed me to be, which was somebody who was strong, somebody who was smiling. Like me and my sisters, like, we just weren’t sad. It was, like, I mean, yes, it’s a sad experience. But it can also be really, really beautiful. And I don’t know, like, where I’m going with this story now. But the funny thing is so my sister made that phone call on March twenty third, twenty twenty two. My mother passed away on March twenty third. Twenty twenty three. Wow. Exactly one year. And I actually and I personally love the date that you died on three Twenty three. Twenty three. Just like mom to make her mark. Mhmm. But it can be sad if you decide that it’s going to be sad and traumatic, but it can also be really beautiful. And I chose to see it as a beautiful experience. I mean, I wouldn’t have wanted to have gotten the phone call that said, mom passed away. Moms you know, Mom’s mom’s dead. I was there. Listening to her, take her final breaths. And I found so much comfort. I mean, we were playing music, like my mother’s was had a very strong faith. So we’re playing a lot of these Christian songs that we knew that she’d love. And I remember telling my sister, can you she just lower it? Because I just wanted to hear her breathe. Yeah. Because sooner or later, it was like she was going to like, it was gonna be that last breath.

Victoria Volk: Eyes are just swelling up.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Mine too.

Victoria Volk: As a trained end of life do a lot, that is the goal and the mission to help families foster and nurture that desire for their loved one to have a death that is honoring their wishes and a death with dignity and respect and however they want that to look like. So had she expressed. I mean, obviously, she had a sense of agency where she was like, I’m done with treatment. And some family can get really up set by that, like, why aren’t you fighting? Why aren’t you trying? Like that can cause a lot of conflict in families when someone chooses that for themselves. But every family dynamic is different and every relationship is different. But it seemed that she was exhibiting her sense of agency from the moment she felt she needed to.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Yeah. And we as her daughter’s really look at it. It was like, what do you want mom? So we were constantly trying to honor her wishes and I remember, like, the moment, like like, okay. Let’s bring in hospice and they will explain everything to us. We’re also very blessed that one of my sisters is a registered nurse and actually does infusion therapies for people that are really ill. She goes to their home and gives them medicine. So to have somebody like my sister just like constantly monitoring and looking at the numbers, and she just knew where my mom was even if mom didn’t know where she was, And when I and when I say it was, like, it’s not that she didn’t know, like, her surroundings, but I’m talking about, like, diagnostically, like, what like, blood count numbers, what that actually meant. And so, I mean, so, like, having my sister, it was almost like, the adviser in the family, like, everybody was constantly looking to her, but we didn’t still opt for hospice so that my sister, the nurse, could be her daughter, and not her nurse, not her caretaker. And we think we thought that we were gonna be at the hospice house a lot longer than we actually were. We’re only there for two and a half days. Oh, wow. Yeah. I mean, when we when I tell you that, like, we packed snacks for days. For some reason, we thought we were gonna be there a while. Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Wow. How was this loss different for you in a lot of ways from your husband’s passing?

Laurie-Ann Murabito: My husband’s passing was really the first major death that I’ve ever experienced. And I was thirty-six and found myself a widow. I think, again, I was able to just put myself into the person that he needed me to be and honoring his wishes. And I’ll tell you a funny story. Because music is very uplifting for me. And I must have gone out, and this was literally like the day before he passed, and he passed very fast. I had gone to the market for something listening to some very upbeat music. So I come in the house and I’m smiling and upbeat and bouncy if my husband says to me. He says, you’re awfully upbeat for a woman who’s about to lose her husband. And I went, Mm-mm. Yeah. So would you like and I constantly was doing this throughout our marriage. I was always giving him choices. So would you like me to be sad and crying? Or would you like me to be smiling and laughing? And he chose to be smiling and laughing, and I said, okay, you got it. So your wish is my commands, basically. And that’s how I would just be. I just felt like I had to be this because he was constantly looking at me for clues, for, like, where am I? Again, health-wise, should I be afraid? And I was always like if I showed, like, no fear, like, you’re doing great. Everything is going according to plan on, then he would react And then his family, his brother, and sister, and daughter would also react the same way too. Like, everybody’s just feeding off of each other’s energy. So I just stepped into just being like, like, you’re doing great. Like, and that’s how I was throughout his illness. And my family didn’t even know that he was as sick as he was because it was always like, how is Bob? And I’m like, who’s great? But then great turned into good. Good turned into okay until my sister, the nurse, called one day and said, how are you doing? And I said about as good as a woman can be when her husband’s dying. My sister was like, what? Like, it’s just not something that I talked about because he was still in the mode at that time of fighting. He felt that it was part of his responsibility to because he was also the older brother, to be around for his siblings, to be around for his daughter, to be that role model. So it wasn’t until he made the decision. He was like, I’m tired. I said, okay. Well, like, like, little hospices next. So I think because of having that experience and when he took his last breath, that’s when I kind of got this new belief about death that it is as beautiful as life. Now, I’ve never had children myself but me and aunt and seeing my sisters have children I saw how beautiful like this experience was. And to me, like, It was as beautiful that I could be there with him as he departed from this world. So having that experience, it was like, here I am, I’m 55 and just lost my mom. So I was able to kinda tap into that same energy. And that experience to use with my mom. And we had a good time in her final days. My mother was hilarious. Tried a great sense of humor.

Victoria Volk: Did you not let people see your fear? Did you not let people see like, in the quiet moments, like, when you’re sitting on the toilet or when you’re driving, like, is that when, like, you just let it out? Like, when did you let it out?

Laurie-Ann Murabito: In the shower.

Victoria Volk: In the shower.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: That’s when I would cry in the shower. I would cry when I was when I was driving. Yeah. When yeah. When people couldn’t see me. Because, again, I guess, like and I’m the oldest. So I feel like that sense of responsibility to be that role model. And like, four others. So if I can be strong they don’t have anything to, like, worry about. So there are pros and cons to that sort of behavior, certainly. And But it also makes me the eternal optimist.

Victoria Volk: I was gonna say you must have positivity in your top ten and your u map. Fire I had to take the assessment. I bet you have positivity up there.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Well, my dad had a major accident on his bicycle. And so this happened, like Bob passed away. It was after Bob had passed away like, several years. And had a massive head injury med flighted to Boston, that sort of injury. And so ended up being blind in his right eye. Even though he’s wearing a helmet, he just hit a rock just right underneath his helmet. So my dad’s blind in his right eye. But meaning the eternal optimism, I think I sent this to him, in the hospital, if not, shortly after I was like, I was like, dad, that’s why you got two eyes, two arms, two legs, two kidneys, several lungs, slopes. I was like, stop it. Stop complaining about that you’re blinding your right eye. You got another one. Again, internal optimist

Victoria Volk: Perspective. Right. It can accept I mean, it’s like being kept and obvious, but But it’s also, like, just to give someone perspective. Like, it  — Mhmm. — it could be worse. Right? It yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: It could have been a whole lot worse. And if anything with my dad because the front part of your brain is where your personality is, His personality changed. My father is the typical engineer. And as a result of getting hit in the head, he’s way more talkative. Really? Maybe we’re to oh, yeah. Had my sisters and I known this? We’d hit them in the head a long time ago. And I use that story in my speaking. Yes.

Victoria Volk: Perfect segue. So how has your speaking transformed from, because you were a public speaker before your husband, Bob?

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Yes.

Victoria Volk: And so how has that shifted and changed and how have you grown as a public speak speaker since you’ve experienced a grief and loss that like you’d have.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: More authentic — Mhmm. — more urgency, because life is short. I think a lot of us know that, but we don’t really know that. We understand it, but we don’t actually put that understanding into action. So he was here and he was in my life and I was in his life for a reason. So what was I going to do now as a result of like, wow, like just seeing the evidence that life is so short. Because he did die really young. And I just had that sense of urgency, like, why am I hanging around? Why am I just waiting. Why am I playing small? What if I just went all out? Because like, what if I only had another six months to live? And my mother was very fortunate to live to almost 80. And in those final days and weeks and months, I mean, like, to have, like, some of these conversations that her night should have had a long time ago. And I remember her saying to me something about, like, we wasted so much time because we didn’t have this a particular conversation. And I said, that’s okay. We’re gonna live a lifetime of our relationship in a short period of time. That’s all. Like, here’s what we got. Again, the eternal optimist kind of came out then also. So in my speaking, like, I really do share deeper stories, not these superficial stories. I’ll share myself. I mean, I’ve spoken on days that one time in particular I spoke in Boston, on the anniversary that, well, that my husband and I would have shared our wedding anniversary. So I’ve shared about that because then people really get to know really get to know me that I’m not just some stick figure up there that’s like talking about leadership and but I get to be like a lot more honest. A lot more honest even like with my private clients also. It’s like, here’s who I am. Here’s some of my loss. Like, my life has not been peachy came. It’s like the social media. Everybody thinks that everybody’s life looks so perfect. And that’s what I should be striving for when it’s like, no. It’s full of tears and some hurts and some disappointment. Am I disappointed that my husband and I didn’t even make it to our first anniversary? Yeah. I was. But what I did was I made the best of the situation. And I’ll problem. Me and my sisters will do the same thing with my mom. And what I mean by that is so my husband and I were married on March 6. He passed away on November 1st. So when March 6 rolled around, I had a cocktail party at my house. Filled with some people that I that I chose. And it was just to, like, celebrate that him and I, like, we got married a year ago. And then on November 1st, again, I had another cocktail party in my house, and it was filled with the people who had supported me in that past year. And I remember that time people saying, somebody had said, because everybody always stands around in the kitchen. Like, Laurie-Ann, who are all these people? And I literally went around the room and I not only named who they were, but this is what you did. For me and supported me or Bob, like, in the past year. And just kinda I knew that I had to change the date. The meaning of the day. Mhmm. And so that’s why I had the cocktail party. So my mother’s birthday is August 14th, and I know that we will one sister is already gonna be out of town, but I’ll probably have coconut cake. That was my mother’s favorite. Nothing fancy. It’s a pepperidge farm or nothing. My mother had to have pepperidge farm coconut cake. And I will have coconut cake in my mother’s honor.
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: I don’t know if that.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: And then come March twenty-third, I’m sure me and my sisters will do something fun also. So I just think that grief gets to be what you want it to be. This is what you talk about all the time Victoria’s about. How to do grief differently. So let me share with you going to the funeral home. I remember my mother’s pretty funny. And me and my sisters all got her sense of humor. So we must have been giggling as we were walking up the steps. And it’s a Friday afternoon. Mom passed away on Thursday night. And he opens the door and just we go into his office, we sit at this table, this wooden table, it’s me and my sisters that are kind of in a semicircle and he’s on the other side and he says, this reminds me of growing up. Me and my four older sisters, not that you guys enrolled because I think I’m the oldest one, and that started it. We were in his office for ninety minutes. Laughing. The tissues that we had that he had on like, we weren’t crying. They were tears of joy or laughter. And he’s asking us questions about my about our mom, and we’re like, some of the questions, like, we actually didn’t know the answer. I remember hearing them, like, where did my mother go to when did you graduate high school? We were like, shit. I don’t know. I don’t know. So now we’re texting my aunt, her sister. Who’s her remaining the only remaining person in her family now. We’re texting her and I label it as, we’re doing funeral trivia. Funeral trivia. Okay? So these so so you sort of get a sense of what this was like, ninety minutes were laughing. So he was trying to ask all this information because he’s going to write the typical obituary. But my sister one of my sisters loves to write. And I’ve done a lot of copy classes. So we decided that we’re going to write it instead, and it was hilarious. It had lusilism and my mother loved Yazzi and some just some phrases that she constantly said, Well, my aunt, when she said when she read the obituary, she said, you guys are hired. You’re writing mine when I need one. But the funeral director he was expecting something like that because we send it to him, like, it’s not your typical obituary. He was, like, I wouldn’t spectatistical one from you for you girls. So he was just he really helped I love the fact that he was so he just mirrored us instead of, well, you’re supposed to be sad. Are you guys just avoiding this and, like, we weren’t avoiding anything? We knew that it was coming. And I think he also just made us feel that it was okay for us just to laugh. Now for anybody who’s listening, I mean, don’t think that we didn’t have our breakdowns. I certainly had my moments that I would say I’m not proud of. Just we’re not gonna get sad and said things that I like, in hindsight, it was just like, oh, god. Why didn’t I say that to that person? So there’s a lot of forgiveness. Forgiveness of ourselves. That’s something that I know that you talk about a lot.

Victoria Volk: I can see my siblings and I kind of doing a similar thing when we have the right obituary for my mom. Someday. She’s going to be 80, but she still works. And she’s a firecracker of a lady and she’s like the type of person you hear her before you see her. Gotcha. Yeah. She doesn’t know a stranger. Anywhere. Yeah. It just makes me reflect on how I can see us trying to I mean, it’s one last way to honor the person too, right, to kind of bring their personality into how you want them to be remembered and things like that. Yeah. So thank you for sharing that. And also that there is, like, you can be positive and you can try to support others in making light of the situation, but that doesn’t mean that you don’t have your own moments. Right? And the and the privacy of your own heart, and there’s a lot of people like that. I’m like that. Like, I try to keep it to not to myself. Like, I let it out, but I like to let it out in private because — Yeah. — and were you like that as a kid too? Like, I they had to send search parties out for me. At one time they did because I was in the linen closet. When I was upset or sad or I was crying, I would go and hide to cry. Under the bed and I’d fall asleep wherever I laid, whether it was the kitchen cupboard and where the cereal was. Which was one time or in the linen closet or under my bed, which was

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Oh my gosh.

Victoria Volk: That’s but I think, too, And this is where I wanna talk about this aspect of it too. It’s the myths of grief, like one of two of them are, grief alone, and another is be strong. And so this stuff is taught to us as children. And so can I ask growing up? Was that how grief was mirrored for you or shown how you respond. How was grief taught to you? When you’re growing up.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: I think the short answer is I don’t know.

Victoria Volk: Mhmm.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: But to answer the question, I think, watching my parents who are like growing up. You just think like that’s the way that life is. There’s so much that happens. In family dynamics that we don’t like, I wasn’t sort of person that question much. I observed I’m a really good observer. My father, the engineer, I remember a close uncle of his passing, and I did I do remember my father crying. As soon as he got off the phone, I was too young when his dad passed. To really remember that, but I do remember the uncle. And I do remember my mother bringing me to, like, wakes as a young girl. And I did think it was I thought it was weird. Like, I think the first one that my mother brought me to was a young girl who had was a somebody that she worked with, and their daughter, I think, had drowned. So it was a young person. Wow. So I don’t know if it was my mom’s way of just saying like, hey, like, this is just like what happens in life. But my mother was also the sort of person who didn’t deal well with any feelings that were other than happy and joyful. So she stuffed her feelings down. So maybe that’s where I learned that whole modeling thing, model your strength, and just be happy. So it wasn’t something that I don’t know how to answer that because I don’t

Victoria Volk: remember that I did. I think you guys did.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Thank you. Because of a coach and having gone through coaching, education and having coached a lot of people, like one the death of my first husband. So those were choices that I made. I decided. I decided that I didn’t wanna have any regrets.
I do remember that decision. I did not wanna have any regrets when he passed. So if that meant making the really fattening shrimp alfredo, which he absolutely loved, if it meant like having that like night after night, then that’s what I would do. If it meant having ice cream after a dock appointment instead of going and getting a decent lunch. Well, that’s what we did. I didn’t wanna have any regrets and that kind of meant, hey, what do you want? What do you wanna eat? What do you wanna do today? And just kind of making his final days and final moments joyful? And so I kinda did that with my mom too. She loved Arby’s especially during Lent. They had, like, the fish sandwich and and she loved their fries. So what do you think we did on Fridays? It was, like, We had to go get the fish sandwich. And it was really good, but just to see her enjoy eating it. Is it the healthiest thing? No. But who cares? Because the following day, it was like, mom, what do you wanna eat? I mean, she the woman was barely eating.
Mhmm. Just like I want a fish sandwich. Great. Texas Sifter. Pick up a fish sandwich.
I’m your way here.

Victoria Volk: So when she decided to stop treatment, did she start to feel like she could actually, like, live life a little bit?

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Because it was leukemia. I mean, she didn’t have a whole lot of time from the time that she decided. So it was literally like within seven days. We had a meeting on a Friday night knowing that come monday, mom, you gotta get platelets. Because it would give her a little bit of extra time. And actually, I might be getting my dates all messed up because I know she ended up in the hospital on Sunday night. So I remember it was just like, we’re gonna get you platelets before we, like, sign papers for that because it would give her a couple of days. And, I mean, leukemia can be a really an ugly death, and we are so fortunate that my mother she just stopped breathing. So it really wasn’t that much time. But she did end up in the hospital and she was like, I want it, I’m done. And so because she was in the hospital and she was saying, I’m done, she also can’t stay in the hospital because basically she was refusing care.

Victoria Volk: Right.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: So she got discharged to a hospice facility. And I gotta tell you, like, every step of the way, the people who picked her up in the ambulance, they were so amazing. This isn’t like this male and female, and they were kind of bickering back and forth. It was really kind of funny. I mean, it was just perfect for my mom. I was like, alright. And one of my sisters went with them and the hospice place was just absolutely it was a beautiful facility. Just a lovely room. It was just really nice just to be there with her.

Victoria Volk: I love that. I love that you had that experience with her and that you were able to, as a family, too,

Laurie-Ann Murabito: so many miracles happened. Oh, yeah. That’s

Victoria Volk: fair to share.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Yes. One of my sisters hadn’t seen or spoken to my dad in, I’m gonna say, fifteen years. This is the nurse’s sister. She also wasn’t even around for my mom for fifteen years, but when it came time that my mother needed that, my sister stepped right up to the point, she was there. Many sleepless nights, she stayed at, she just stayed at my mom’s house at her apartment. So in my mom’s passing, my sister and dad, I wouldn’t say that they I don’t know if they I don’t know what’s going on now, but I can say tell you that they were together looking at pictures and talking. And so that was beautiful. She brought all four of us together. It was nice that, like, we would, like, have relationships with this one and, like, that one and those two over there. But to bring us, like, all together. I mean, staying at my sister’s house, I was like, great. This is like a sorority house now. It was a lot of fun and it was a lot of laughs at the same time. So she’s done. In her passing, did some really amazing things. And we have now adopted our aunt, her sister, as our new mom, because she only had one daughter. So she’s like, now I got four more. Oh. Yeah. It was really it can be beautiful. So you are always talking about let’s do grief differently. People I just want you get to decide what it looks like. It doesn’t have to be what we’re taught, what we see on TV, that it’s this absolutely devastating thing. I mean, we just had Mother’s Day. I got a few people who sent me text messages concerned because it was the first mother’s day, but I didn’t my mother lived in Ohio. So I didn’t really see her on Mother’s Day, at least for the past six years, six or seven years. So it wasn’t that bad.

Victoria Volk: And I have a confession. I did not. I did not message you. And I know. And it didn’t even and, like, here I am. I’m, like, the grief specialist and I didn’t even message you. Like, I’m so sorry.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Don’t be.

Victoria Volk: I’m sure you didn’t think anything. I’m sure you didn’t think anything of it.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: No. But Two people who sent me messages that were just like, Oh, what? That’s nice. Oh. And I was just like, I’m doing well.
Thank you. Yeah. It can be a beautiful experience, but you gotta decide. How do you wanna look back on it?

Victoria Volk: How do you wanna look back on it? It’s almost like this foreshadowing. Like, you have to almost four and I have a friend that she kinda she says that a lot. Like, she almost lives her life with this foreshadowing perspective. Like, she kinda, like, plays out a scenario to the end.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Nice.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. And she, like, foreshadowed, like, okay. So how do I want the ending to be? How do I get the ending to be, how I want it to be? And part of that can be some control. Right? Like, you wanna control the outcome that, but at the same time, it’s like I think it’s just discerning for yourself and having some thoughtful contemplation, really. And some intention. Like, you’re bringing intention into how you move forward by playing out different scenarios. Playing it out to the end.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: So I think when it comes to death and dying, especially for people who know it’s coming. It doesn’t feel like a gift at the time, but it truly is. Because you have the gift of knowing that it’s coming. Whereas, like you said, if it’s a tragic accident or something that’s sudden. It’s like you get hit by a truck yourself, you could can feel that way. And then you have all these regrets because, oh, I never told them I love them. And actually, I was just talking to someone not that long ago. It was a family member actually. I was there in the morning and so the family members were leaving and the husband was going off to work and the sun to school and the wife was working from home that day and and and I was saying goodbye, love you to is my family members and my sister-in-law, she was like, oh, great. So now you’re gonna show me up. Like, because they don’t have that kind of dynamic. They don’t communicate that on a daily basis, whereas in my house, every day, we’re telling each other, we love each other, and goodbye, and good morning, and good night. Like, even my kids are gone, I’m texting them, can I love you? Or, so it’s almost a daily. And I just said, you don’t know if you’ll get a chance later.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: You don’t.

Victoria Volk: And we often just don’t think about that. We just we go about our day-to-day and we just think that tomorrow is guaranteed or that we can say it later or what have you. But I think if there’s any message here in this conversation today, it’s that you get to choose what today looks like.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: And what you do with today and you also get to choose on if you have your regret or not.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Yeah. Choice. We all have choice.

Victoria Volk: Yeah.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: And it can be just something so different.

Victoria Volk: And it does it have to take someone getting a cancer diagnosis or someone getting a terminal illness or someone having that tragic accident that’s unexpected for us to, like, reflect on our lives and how do I wanna show up now? And just how you said, circling back to when your husband passed away, it’s like, you ask yourself these big questions. Like, you were 36. Like, there wasn’t a where there are a lot of resources for a young widow even at that time. I mean, that’s I hear that now, like, young widows or it’s difficult being a young widow.

Victoria Volk: It was very difficult. I found one group, but there was something that the social worker who was running it said and it didn’t sit with me well. And I walked out and I had gone with a friend of mine because I actually had two friends who lost their husbands in their twenties. So I had two young friends who were also young widows. Sort of navigating life also. And I walked out and I remember, like, asking one of them, did she really say and she’s like, uh-huh. I was like, yeah, I’m never going back there. So I never found my husband was paralyzed from an operation. And brought him out to California for this operation for somebody because he was just he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. So we ended up being paralyzed And I mentioned something about that. And she made some sort of comment, like, you married him even though he was paralyzed. Yeah. Yeah. Like that look. They’re just like yeah.
It’s kinda like what happens when you really love somebody. Like, it didn’t matter to me. Yeah. He ended up in a wheelchair. It was the his last operation paralyzed him.

Victoria Volk: Wow.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Yeah. So that was why I didn’t go back. So I had to navigate it by myself because there’s a lot of grief groups with, like, you walk in and everybody’s, like, in their seventies. Mhmm. It’s like, oop. I don’t really fit here. Yeah.

Victoria Volk: And it isn’t common that you had actually two friends that had experienced that.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Right.

Victoria Volk: what a blessing that was —

Laurie-Ann Murabito: It was a huge blessing. Yeah. Because they both kinda shared their experience with me and what they did and what not to do. Yes. I got a couple of whatnots to do afterwards. Yeah.

VictoriaVolk: What have you found or discovered about yourself in how you wanna move forward in speeches, in working with clients, like, now you it’s like you have all this just more experience, right, behind your belt and

Laurie-Ann Murabito: I think it’s too you have motivation to eliminate fear. Because like think back to some of those moments even just like ten years ago, if you’re listening to this, just reflect on something that you found fearful ten years ago, and you look back on it now. And you’re probably thinking to yourself because this is what I do at least. It’s like, what was I so afraid of? Let’s just take a difficult conversation. That fear of having that difficult conversation. And then you had it it’s just and then you have the conversation, and it’s so freeing. Mhmm. So I guess, like, my advice would be, like like, what would happen if you eliminated fear? So with my clients, like, they are telling their story. They are sharing their solutions so that they can grow their business have a bigger impact, help more people. But it’s always like, I know you’re afraid of being judged You’re afraid to hit that go live button. You’re afraid to send that email to that meeting planner. But what if we eliminate fear? Like, what would be possible if fear was not in the way? And fear shows up in many different colors. Shows up as procrastination. As the oh, this is hard. I’ll do it later. I don’t know how to do this. What if I’m judged? What will people think? Fear shows up in so many different colors and costumes, if you will. So what would happen if you recognize fear and just made friends with fear. Interested it anyways. So that’s part of my work is helping people tell their story. Helping people just get out there and share their story because it’s it all starts with your first story. Your first speech, your first video. What would happen if we didn’t compare ourselves to where we were, to where we think we should be? That’s how I would say that that’s how this has changed me. And I’m and I know that there’s lots of stories that I’m gonna have from my mother’s passing. Right now is not the time to be sharing them. Certain stories, I guess. But I’m sure, like, there’s a lot of lessons that have come from the experience. I got the phone call, and we literally thought my mother was dying, like, the next day. And when I saw her, like, my sisters and I, like, all flew out there. And when we saw her, I was just like, oh my god. My mother’s meeting her maker, like, in a matter of hours. They changed an antibioticer and she, like, turned around.
I was like, keep this crow, this is a there was a roller coaster ride that I wanted to get off. We all did. It’s an emotional rollercoaster ride, but that’s okay.

Victoria Volk: As many challenges in life are. Right?

Laurie-Ann Murabito: That’s right.

Victoria Volk: So once you get to the end, eventually, you get to the end of the roller coaster. That’s right. There’s dips and valleys and kinks and it’s all part of the experience.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Of life. Yes. And that’s why your work is so important so that this doesn’t become a weight that people carry in their backpack for the rest of their lives. You help them lighten the load unpack that backpack, if you will.

Victoria Volk: I do and is one of the most rewarding things. It’s my full circle moment, I guess, so to speak. I’m sure we all have those full-circle moments. Did you always expect as a child that you would be helping people tell their stories? Or did you wanna be a journalist?
Or did you see yourself on stages?

Laurie-Ann: God, No. Or painfully shy girl. No. I was in healthcare.

Victoria: And you were?

Laurie-Ann: Yeah. I come from a healthcare, doing cardiac and vascular ultrasound testing.

Victoria: Really?

Laurie-Ann: Yep. So just one on one work with people.

Victoria Volk: Wow. So what did you wanna be though when you were a child when you.

Laurie-Ann: I did wanna be an actress. So there is that sort of, like, limelight. But again, I was really shy as it is. And it’s so funny how it’s like, as a speaker, you are entertaining people. But I’m entertaining them while they are learning something. So there’s a little bit of that I wanted to be an actress. Yeah. Good question.

Victoria Volk: I love this conversation. Is there anything else that you would like to share you feel is important to share?

Laurie-Ann: I feel like I have shared a lot but I guess I will just reiterate that you always have choice. You always have a choice on how you wanna react to something and how you want something to look and feel. So whether you’re going through illness or lost like your mom, like like I did that you get to look at it and decide how you want to define it. If it’s a sudden death that you weren’t expecting, like, from an ax I think you still can do the same thing is to decide what does this get to look like? How will this change me? Do I want it to change me? Moving forward,

Victoria Volk: How do I want it to change me. I like that. I like that rephrase. Yeah.

Laurie-Ann: Thank you.

Victoria Volk: Where can people find you?

Laurie-Ann: They can find me at my website is speakandstandout.com. And I also have a podcast called Be in Demand. And you can find me over on Instagram and LinkedIn, but all of that is like if you just go right to my website, that will have everything.

Victoria Volk: And I will throw in a shameless plug because you are my speaking coach, and you did help me write a speech, which I’ve yet to present, but it is something that I do look forward to. And I have been working on getting some speaking opportunities. And I have had some and also yeah. And to get on podcast too, that’s part of it as well. That’s speaking too. So thank you for all the work that you’ve done with me and how you’ve supported me, and I just so appreciate you.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: My pleasure because you are helping so many people. Thank you.

Victoria Volk: And Likewise.

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Your work. Thank you.

Victoria Volk: Thank you. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.

Pin It on Pinterest

Skip to content