Ep 220 Helen Gretchen Jones | Signs, Synchronicities, and Spirit Teams: A Guide to Spiritual Connections

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

Helen Gretchen Jones, a death doula and intuitive channeler, shares her inspiring journey into shared death experiences and spiritual consciousness. With a rich background in art history, theology, sound therapy, Reiki, hypnosis, and past-life regressions, Helen now dedicates herself to supporting the dying and those they love in life and after death.

The innate gift of connecting with those who have crossed over has profoundly shaped her understanding of life and death, despite those around her not nurturing her gifts when she was younger.

Helen’s personal experience with grief began when she foresaw her father’s passing months before it happened—a vision that propelled her mission to help others find closure before dying. As a death doula influenced by such personal loss, she emphasizes the importance of addressing unresolved issues for smoother transitions at life’s end. Her stories illustrate how healing through vulnerability supports forgiveness and transformation.

Key Takeaways:

  • Trust Personal Experiences: Embrace signs as validations from spirit teams.
  • Open Dialogue About Death: Encourage authentic communication even amidst difficult conversations.
  • Healing Power in Vulnerability: Allow raw emotions to foster collective healing.
  • Community Support Matters: Initiatives like No One Dies Alone (NODA) highlight crucial human connections at the end of life.

This episode weaves together insights about grief’s somatic manifestations alongside practical advice for processing loss—including meditation practices—and explores how openness can transform entrenched narratives hindering healing journeys.

This episode invites listeners to keep an open mind and heart and allow curiosity beyond skepticism to take root so that healing can occur, which is often experienced unexpectedly and in the most delightful ways. The universe (and our guides) have our backs and are waiting for us to co-create with them!

RESOURCES:

CONNECT:

Embracing the Journey of Grief and Spiritual Connection

In a world where life and death are often viewed as polar opposites, there exists a unique space that intertwines these experiences into one cohesive journey. This is the realm explored by Helen Gretchen Jones, a death doula whose work focuses on shared death experiences and spiritual consciousness. In an enlightening episode of “Grieving Voices,” Helen shares her profound insights into how we can foster loving connections with our spirit team while navigating life’s inevitable end.

The Role of Intuition in Understanding Life’s Transitions

Helen prefers to call herself an intuitive rather than a medium, highlighting her comfort with this term which allows her to connect deeply without preconceived labels. Her childhood was marked by interactions with deceased individuals and what she describes as her spirit team—an experience not commonly shared among peers but one that shaped her understanding of life’s transitions early on.

Techniques for Recognizing Signs from Beyond

A significant aspect of Helen’s work involves helping people recognize signs from their spirit teams. She encourages openness to subtle synchronicities in daily life—a feather at your feet when you’re thinking about someone or an unexpected song playing just when you need it most. Trusting these signs can lead to deeper spiritual awareness and personal growth.

The catalyst for Helen’s path was the sudden loss of her father—a vision she had months before his passing spurred her commitment to help others find closure before death strikes unexpectedly. As a death doula, she witnesses firsthand how terminally ill individuals transition through stages—from anger and control struggles toward acceptance aided by visions of loved ones who have passed.

Providing Peace at Life’s End

Death doulas like Helen play crucial roles in ensuring peace for both those nearing the end-of-life stage and their families left behind; they address unresolved issues creating smoother transitions filled with healing opportunities rather than fear-driven chaos often associated with dying processes today.

Insights Into Afterlife Beliefs & Their Impact On Living Relationships

Helen believes strongly in structured afterlives where learning continues posthumously akin schooling systems here earthside – helping souls understand past actions’ impacts better thus facilitating reconciliation even beyond physical existence itself! Ignoring such possibilities only frustrates spirits trying desperately communicate important messages back home again…

Her narrative suggests interconnectedness between living-spiritual dimensions urging listeners shift skepticism towards embracing creative mindsets co-creating realities alongside unseen allies guiding us every step way forward together united purposefully always onward ever upward!

Episode Transcription:

Victoria Volk: Hello, and welcome to another episode of grieving voices. Thank you for being here and listening to today’s guest, Helen Gretchen Jones. She is a death doula, intuitive, and channeler, who writes about shared death experiences in the essence of spiritual consciousness. Her writing focuses on fostering loving connections with oneself and others, and her work emphasizes, trusting, per personal experiences and the teachings she channels from her team and spirit known as the a team. Ellen holds a dual master’s degree in art history and theology from Saint Edward’s University. She’s a certified and soundful therapy, rakie, hypnosis and past life regressions, and when she’s not working with hospice patients, writing or teaching how it can be found on the family ranch hanging out with her husband, Taylor, their children, Ty and L, and managing all of their many animals. Thank you so much for being here.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here today.

Victoria Volk: It’s been a little while since I’ve had someone who well, you didn’t say you’re a medium, but I kind of feel like that’s a little bit of what you’re talking about. Is that true?

Helen Gretchen Jones: It is. My friend gives me a hard time. She’s a medium, and she goes, hi, can we just use the word? I use intuitive because I don’t I don’t know why. I guess I’m more comfortable with the word intuitive.

Victoria Volk: Okay. That’s fair enough. It’s been a while since I’ve had a medium on, but it seems like I was just telling somebody this not that long ago. I’ve had so many instances. Almost I I think actually almost every instance of recording with somebody, I go listen back to edit, and there is always this third voice.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Oh, how nice.

Victoria Volk: Comes in. And I remember one in particular. It was Becky Ellis. And she was talking about her dad, and there was she was sharing a story about her dad. And this very distinct male voice was in my recording that said, no.
And so when it happens, I share it with the guest, and they’re never surprised. It seems but she’s not a medium. And so but usually, it’s been when there’s been a medium. And so I’m kinda curious after I edit this one or when I go to edit this episode if there’ll be somebody making their appearance in the recording. And I don’t include it when it goes live. Actually, no. I do. It is. And when it goes live, but you don’t hear it, I’m trying to think. You know, I’m I don’t usually play back my recordings.
Like, I don’t listen after

Helen Gretchen Jones: They better them. Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. I do take out the piece and I save it to share with the guests, but yeah, I don’t know if people can actually hear it because you know I think you’ve got to be because I don’t hear it of course when we’re recording and the guest doesn’t hear it. Right? It’s only when I play it back.

Helen Gretchen Jones: And, you know, I’ve done experiments with the voice recording where you listen for the voice through the editing process, and I’ve had voices come in during editing that I did not hear when I was recording.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. So you’ve had that experience.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Of

Victoria Volk: course, you’ve probably had that experience yourself. Yeah.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Well, I was intentionally testing for that, you know, just running experience and seeing. And on one, it was quite a lot. And some, of course, I don’t hear anything. But

Victoria Volk: so when did this? This is a great lead to to when did you realize this gift that you had? And does it I was listening. I was watching this I don’t know what it was on. It was a Oh, it’s unsolved mysteries. Mhmm. I think on Netflix or whatever, and there was an episode about a guy that had this has this spirit that’s been always with him since he was a child named Becky. And Like, she’s, like, his a team. Like, you were kinda talking about, like, she’s, like, on his team and helps him help people. He’s only heard her actual voice one time and it was in the presence of somebody else and it was documented and it’s pretty incredible episode actually. But when did you realize this gift that you had?

Helen Gretchen Jones: So I have been able to tune in for lack of a better word. I I would say connect. I’ve been able to connect to my team and spirit and to other spirits when I was very, very little four or five. I remember, I didn’t know it was unusual at the time. It just felt like it was, I don’t know, normal or commonplace, but it wasn’t until I was probably twelve or thirteen. When I started realizing that it maybe wasn’t normal when these experiences were shared. Like, people would be like, no. That didn’t happen or no. That person wasn’t actually there or I believe you believe that’s what you saw. So then you start to kind of put it together that maybe other people aren’t experiencing the same stuff and you have a you’re out of fork in the road at that point. You can either believe that you’re making it up and it’s imagination completely or you can trust yourself and maybe recognize that not everybody is living or having the same experience at the same time. That’s a hard age. It’s a tough age. But for me, the experiences with my team and spirit and with spirit in general were so beautiful, so transformative, and we’re desperately needed in challenging times. They made everything feel okay that when I would share it with my parents and they would say, I believe you believe that’s what you saw. It didn’t make me question my experience. It made me question the wisdom of my parents. And anyone else I shared. So I was the experiences were so transformative that it made me wonder if I could believe what they were saying. And also middle school, you know, that’s also around the time when you’re experiencing, you know, all your childhood make believe, your Santa Claus and your Easter bunny, and all tooth fairy, and all of those things. And so you start to see that maybe things that your parents are saying, maybe you need to trust your own experiences first.

Victoria Volk: Well, and how did that change, like, your friend like, did you have friends that you could share that your experiences with? Or were they, like, no. Just don’t tell me about that stuff.

Helen Gretchen Jones: You know it’s so funny. Most of them were a little more fearful, I think. And so I would keep it to myself, but what I couldn’t understand was it wasn’t fearful at all. It was beautiful and amazing and awesome. But I have some I have a high school friend that I’m still friends with that we, you know, kind of keep up through social media and on occasion when we see each other through big life events or something. Her name is Donna, and she told me recently, like, in the last couple of years,

Victoria Volk: she goes, yeah, I used to

Helen Gretchen Jones: say the weirdest things when you were little. My mom remembers it, like, when we so I guess I must have said stuff that they didn’t make me feel uncomfortable about even though it struck them as odd.

Victoria Volk: Mhmm. When did you realize who your a team was? Like and when when you say when when I hear a team or when I read read a team, I was like, oh, yeah, mister t.

Helen Gretchen Jones: I know. No.

Victoria Volk: If you’re that generation, but you know, is that how you came like, how did you come up with a team? First of all, I’m just curious.

Helen Gretchen Jones: That’s so funny. So when I was decided that they were always a collective and certain personalities or voices would emerge from the collective, they always felt a bigger part of something, but sometimes I think humans need a physical appearance or a name or something that they can more readily connect to to make the, you know, bigger collective feel more approachable. So and relatable. So my collective is I they’re a collective for sure, but sometimes individual personalities will kinda pull through like a wave pulling up from the ocean before coming back in to the collective. So I decided to call them a team. It was something that popped into my mind fairly recently. I think it might have been twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, just to give a name to the collective. And my husband was like, oh, the a team. Like, the, you know, the crime fighters from the nineteen eighties or something. It’s so t. Yeah. So t. I’ve been in full. Right? That’s what he would say. So I was like, what? I named them after, you know, like, I and I thought it was so lame after that. And I wanted to be something that was like, you know, that meant oneness or that, you know, that was more singular and that represented a collective. And so I told in a meditation, I was like, alright, guys. I chose a a lane name for you guys, pick something else, and I’m throwing the ball that’s in your court, and I’ll be waiting for that really great name that’s gonna come through. And I went I left the house to take my cat to the vet and all the parking spot were being temporarily blocked by a dumpster that was being delivered to the vet clinic and it was olive green and in big bold white letters it said a team on the side. And I was just like I just left the house like ten minutes before So I was like, what? And it was in that moment that I had the knowing that a does mean singular or one in the English language, and it also infers that we are a team and they need me as much as I need them. So a team just stuck after that.

Victoria Volk: Oh, I love that story. I’m so glad I went there. But it brings up the synchronicities that we experience in life that we really don’t often pay attention to and unless you have like this tuned inness Mhmm. About yourself. You probably will miss a lot of these synchronicities. What do you say to people who want to tune in more and learn who their team is and who their guides are? Like, what are some steps that people can take?

Helen Gretchen Jones: So I have a small group of women who come and sit with me and I co teach with another woman here in my town of Austin. We have a little thing that we kind of put together and we just talked about this. How can we receive signs and synchronicities more clearly because I receive them literally. They come in like there’s no doubt, whereas my friend who’s the medium, who gives me a hard time for not using the word medium. Her name is Keisha.
She doesn’t get them like that. She doesn’t get them like in your face signs, but she has she has a sudden knowing or a feeling of that makes sense when she sees something. For me, I ask for a sign in advance. So it’s gonna be different for different people. For me, I say, okay, guys. I believe I just received a message from me that was pretty clear, but this is a big one and I need validation for this. You guys are gonna need to send me a sign. And then I just take a deep breath and I say, okay, and the sign is gonna be, and I let them place a sign in my head. It’s usually comes through as a thought or an image. I let them pick it because they have a very broader perspective, like a a a bigger vantage point to see what I’m going to be experiencing in the next couple of days based on the choices I’ve made so far and the intentions behind the choices I am currently making.
So they’re gonna place a little something in my mind. So if I chose, for example, I saw a symbol of a rose. Well, it’s not gonna be some random person. It’s gonna come and just hand me a rose on the street. I suppose that could happen.
But more likely, I’m gonna go through Starbucks and the person who’s scanning my app is gonna be named Rose. Or if I go check out something at the grocery store, the person’s gonna have a Rose tattoo on their arm. It’s really not being dismissive of the little things. And when you can be that aware of those subtle synchronicities, Well, spirit gets real excited. They’re like, yes, we got through.
Now, what else can we deliver? What else is she willing to see and recognize as part of, you know, a greater whole of what’s happening around her? My friend, Keisha, She is different. She says, okay, I’m gonna wait for a sign. She doesn’t ask them to tell her what it is. She’s just going to go about her day and all of a sudden she’s gonna feel, I think that’s my sign. I think that’s my knowing that this is validating the information that was coming through earlier. So I think it’s gonna vary by person. I always tell my team I need a huge sign. Don’t make me guess or second guess it. So I look for those very, very literal signs and I get them, which is amazing.

Victoria Volk: So I I’m a Reiki master. I do energy healing work. I work with Grievers. You know, I’m I I should be I feel like I should be more entuned. You know? I I feel like I’ve been frustrated because it’s like I ask for specific signs, but I like how your approach is where you’re just asking for the sign to be given to you. Like, what will be the sign? Yes. I like that approach and because I feel like it’s it’s caused me to feel doubtful of myself. It’s caused me to feel unsure. And so but when I’m in a session with somebody and I’m working with their energy field and that feels very sure to me. You know, at the moment, you know, so that I can’t it’s difficult for me to reconcile, like, the stuff for myself. Like, what what you just talked about, that’s where I’m struggling. And so I like your approach that you shared in how you do that. Mhmm. I might might try that for myself, so thank you for sharing that.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Sure. It was actually taught to me by someone else. By the way, I’m glad it’s working out.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. So let’s change the subject to grief because that’s what whole podcast is about and what your work is about as I’m a death doula too, trained death.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Oh, fantastic. Okay.

Victoria Volk: But I have yet to figure out what that’s gonna look like for me. And so I’m very anxious to hear how you’ve incorporated that into your work and how you support the living as a death doula. Right? So Yes. A lot of questions, a lot of things there. Let’s put a pin in some of those. And hopefully, we don’t forget what we want to talk about now. But so as a child, you mentioned that you very young age, you recognize this gift, but had you had a lot of death in your life and in your family? Around that time when you first discovered this? Was it family that was coming to you who had deceased? Or

Helen Gretchen Jones: It was in some cases, it was my for example, some of my grandmother’s deceased relatives. She had a lot, you know, know, during the Great Depression, there were a lot of people having a lot of kids, and it was a different time back then. So she had lost some of her siblings. And I do remember some of them coming through. So even now, it’s confusing to me when I insist in my memory that they were there for a family event, and they’re like, no, they were deceased. But in my mind, they were there. I think when you’re little, sometimes it’s hard to differentiate. But I didn’t start working with dying people until I didn’t feel the need to, until after twenty fifteen. Twenty fifteen was when my father died. He was young. He was in his fifties. And it was relatively unexpected for the family. It was not unexpected for me, five months before his death, I had been given a vision of his death. And he was he had cirrhosis at the liver that was health related. And I think his death being so unexpected for specifically one of my sisters and for some of his siblings even. There was a lot of closure that didn’t get a chance. There was so much stuff that was left unsaid and there was a lot of hurt and pain that people were holding on to from past actions. And and I thought, gosh, if when I heard about a death duel, I thought if there was any way that I could navigate someone else’s deep loss like that and and help them not have all these things left unsaid. If I could help them to find closure, then that’s what I wanna do. And so that’s what led me down the path of being a death doula. And once I chose, went all in, I committed, this is what I’m gonna do. I’m gonna help the people who are dying and the families. My gifts started to change and evolve towards that. Because before, I was doing more raky and sound bowl and it was a little bit more dealing on an individual basis what that person needed, especially some shock work, things like that. But once I moved into working with people who are dying, my gift started to evolve towards the people who are dying. So it shifted for sure.

Victoria Volk: So when you’re so you work with the people who are dying,

Helen Gretchen Jones: I do, specific. And their families and their families and their family stuff.

Victoria Volk: Okay. What does that look like? I’m just curious for myself personally. Like, what does that look like? Is it, you know, helping them, yeah, I’ll let you explain.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Sure. So it depends on who hires me, or I also do volunteer work. So it’s both of All of that matters based on what you’re working with. So if the family hires me, then usually means that the patient’s a little more close minded to their process that’s coming up for them, their dying process. If it’s the patient that hires me, it’s usually because they feel like the family hasn’t come to terms with what they have come to terms with. And so it really depends on what direction I’m going to be going in, but ultimately you’re working with both family and patient. It has been my experience so far that when the patient first receives a diagnosis of a terminal illness, then you’re they’re gonna be first able to fight it. What can I do to to live longer? How can I keep death at bay? Nobody ever wants to talk about death. It’s such a taboo topic, especially in our western civilization. So we’re looking at it’s unlucky. Oh, don’t say that. Oh, you know, that’s not being positive. That’s being negative. When in reality every single living being has to die. Every plant animal person, it doesn’t matter, cells, molecules, everything transitions to a different state. So instead of focusing on it being a negative thing, a bad thing, a horrible thing. If we were to shift our perspective and really make it about this is what’s happening, now how can we make it the best possible? You know? And yes, we’re all gonna grieve. We’re all going to feel sad about the physical loss of our loved one. Of course, that’s part of the process. Nobody on this planet will not experience that. But knowing that we have to go through it, what’s the best possible way to go through it and how can we heal hearts beforehand so that any of that pain and hurt doesn’t have to continue to shape the lives of those left behind. So that’s really what I’m doing. And that’s on a case by case basis. So sometimes when a purse oh, I guess I go back to what I said. I’m so sorry. I kinda got off topic a little bit. First, we’re really angry, and we try to fix it and keep it at bay. And But once we accept that this is happening, that’s when fear sets in. People feel fearful over the process of dying. And they they then look for a little bit of control. What can I control now? So they start to do their paperwork. They start to I want you to have this, I want you to have that, I want this person to come, I want this, you know, they start to try to control their environment. And then in the last week or two before death, that’s when we start to see some pretty amazing things. We start to see Our loved one who’s dying starts to see people who are coming that have already transitioned. They start to see beings of light. And the reason that this is important and should not be considered something to be medicated or that we need to convince them is not actually happening. The reason this is important is because that removes the fear that people have around death. When they start to have a foot in both worlds, they start to see that they’re not alone, and it’s okay for them not to be fearful of the next space and someone’s coming in and slowly introducing the next phase to them so that they’re comfortable when the time comes. It’s really a really amazing important phase. And in addition to that, it gives the loved ones hope that there is something more.
So All of these phases are really important in the in the dying process. And as a death doula, when you’re there, you’re navigating each individual phase and meeting the person right where they’re at with the ultimate goal of peace.

Victoria Volk: Had a guest. His name is Chris Kerr, and he had written a book. He works with hospice patients. And he had has done a lot of research on the dying process and wrote a book. Death is about a dream, and he had a very interesting take on it. And he was actually part of the Netflix documentary or series surviving death.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Oh.

Victoria Volk: So I’ve had a lot of different types of people on this show. But in your personal experience though with your dad, when you learn that information, like, did you keep it to yourself? Did you share it? Or

Helen Gretchen Jones: So when I my dad’s death was the first close family death because it’s your parent. And when I received that vision, it was my first vision that I’ve received as someone dying. And I journaled it because I was, you know, always journaling and meditating doing doing doing things like that. I told my husband and a neighbor about it, and then I let it go. In the vision, me, my dad was in a hospital bed, And he was his by the way, let me just say, my dad was a good old boy. He lived out on a ranch all alone with his dog. You know, he didn’t want any kind of he wanted to be off the grid. I mean, he was you know. Okay. So he was buried Texan, buried. And so his biggest fear, one time he told me, I found out that he hadn’t told his sister or any of my sisters about it either or his mom or anybody. Was that he feared dying alone and that nobody would find him for days. So when I had my vision and he had die was dying in a hospital, that was an unusual thing for him because, yeah, my dad would not have just gone to the doctor of the hospital. He was out on the land. So he was in the hospital. There was a number five flashing above his head. The hospital walls were this bluish green color, and he he was young still in in that vision. And my daughter who was just a baby. I mean, she was a little at that four or five, I think. And she was holding my hand and she looked to be the same age and I thought he’s gonna be dying soon. So I journaled it he’d been he’d been staying with me in Austin, which is where I’m at, and he he lived down South Texas. And he’d been drinking all day. He kept extending his stay because he couldn’t get behind the wheel to drive. He was watching politics really loud. He was a smoker. My backyard was littered with cigarette butts. He brought his dog. I had cats. It was just kind of a chaotic mess and I didn’t want him to feel unwelcomed, but it was very, very frustrating for me at that time. Of course, I love my dad, but it wasn’t an enjoyable experience, I should say. So by the and that’s when that vision happened. So I was really kind of focused on how can I get my dad to go back home? And this is, you know, really certain that the quality of that of of my family, now my children, my husband, it was I mean, it was a chaotic time. And the holidays were coming. The kids were starting school. I had a lot going on, so I just pushed that vision aside. It was my first vision. How do I know if it’s right? I wrote it down, told a couple of people that was it. Well, five months later, on February fifth of twenty fifteen, all those fives, while he was in his fifties, the whole thing started at five o’clock in the morning. He was in rehab. He’d agreed to go to rehab at Christmas, and he was in rehab, and they found him kind of out of it in his room, took him to a hospital. And that’s the only way he would have ever been in a hospital. And sure enough, we get there. The hospital has blueish green walls, and it’s all unfolding exactly as the vision. And I needed someone to watch my daughter because it was a two hours away and my neighbor called my neighbor said, can you get my daughter for school? And she was like, remember that vision you had? I was like, oh my gosh. She was the one that reminded me about it. And so since then, now that I work with people who are dying, I do get ballparks on on people’s death. Ballparks, not like February fifth at five AM, nothing like that. It’s gonna be it’s just like three weeks. You know, approximately two and a half years. I’ve got one that’s approximately four years. So I do get these ballparks on people now, but that gift is new since I started working with people who are

Victoria Volk: dying. Wow.

Helen Gretchen Jones: But when I first got it, I just wanna share. When I first got it, I thought, am I supposed to stop it? Now I felt this responsibility. Was this but that’s what movies teach you. You know? They’re just like, oh, someone got a vision. They have to go stop. Someone’s No. It’s my belief and that could change, right, based on experiences. I’m always trying to see what what I’m interpreting is correct or not. But it’s my belief that when a soul decides to die, then I’m able to pick up on that wave or that packet of information that’s already out there. When that soul has decided. So while the personality of my dad may not have decided to die, he wouldn’t have wanted that. On a soul level, he did. And so when that soul made that choice, that’s when I was able to receive that information. So I believe someone that is close to me now when I got I was cooking spaghetti and came right over me four years. I’m just like, so on the soul level that person has made the choice even though their personality has not. So, yeah, that’s I hope I answered your question.

Victoria Volk: I feel like I’m in a trance just watching and listening. That’s fascinating. I don’t know how I would feel with that information, like, what do you do with it?

Helen Gretchen Jones: What’s so interesting is his mom, my grandmother, after my dad died, I told her about the vision. And she was like, if you ever get one on me, you better tell me. Most people tell me if you ever get one on me, do not tell me. Right? So shortly after that, I did get one on her. And I I got it in December, and I was like, oh my gosh. Do I tell her, you know, do I I had a real knot in my stomach about it. And she’s a loved one too. She is. She is. And she told me to tell her. And so but I was really struggling with this because at that point, I was believing that by telling someone to you then, is it like, like a Shakespeare play? Are you making it happen? Because now you’re putting it in their their field and it’s gonna You know what I mean? So I was really struggling with what does it mean to have a vision. And so I went ahead and told her and she she did die within two and a half years just like the vision. I think it was eighteen months. I think now I can’t remember what the vision was. I’d have to go back to my journals and look. Was it two years or eighteen? I said maybe eighteen months to twenty four months. I can’t remember now, but she hit the mark. And I was just like you’ve got to be kidding me. Is it because I told her? Is it because And so I struggled with that.
Now though, like I mentioned earlier, I believe it is when a soul decides that’s how I’m It’s not my responsibility

Victoria Volk: Mhmm.

Helen Gretchen Jones: At all. But what it does is allow me to prepare the people around them and that person or their big transition. So what would have been nice had I insisted one of my sisters come with me to family weekend when my dad was in rehab and knowing that my dad had a shortened time and really allow her to express how she was feeling and her hurt and pain and allow him to at least have the opportunity to work through some of that. Same with my grandmother because we knew she got cancer shortly after. We were able to work through that.
She had all of her stuff, her all her ducks in a row, she said everything she wanted to say, everybody said their final good buys because they were expecting it. So I think that’s why I’m given that information now is because on a choice I’ve made to work with people who are dying. So now it’s like, I don’t have to tell anyone what their ballpark is. That’s not the important part. The important part is to allow me to have a time frame in which to work with them or their families bring about the greatest amount of peace for the transition.

Victoria Volk: Full body chills. Let me ask you this. So having this gift as a child and growing into your teens in adulthood, so your perspective of grief is obviously very different from everybody else around you. And you said that, you know, it was like it challenged you to believe your parents and what they were telling you. Like, I believe it happened to you. But, you know, what were the things about grief that you that people were telling you that you didn’t believe and what has your grief with your father and the work that you’re doing, what has that all taught you now?

Helen Gretchen Jones: So I’ll start with my dad and then I’ll talk about my childhood. So my dad’s the grief around my dad was profound and that was I probably was I call it a funk. I wouldn’t say it was a full on depression, but after his death and parents are supposed to go before their kids. I felt like I had a good relationship with my dad. Like, there was no reason for me to feel that way.
But I think I was also processing the grief of the family. The grief of the family was deep, and my grief was profound, but I have to say that his death was the catalyst to me helping other people through their grieving processes. So it’s been a very important of death that has and he comes through, you know, he’s a better communicator in death than he ever was in life. Mhmm. So this has also been a process for him. So even though he has transitioned to a different state, of being his molecules or moving a little different faster rate than ours. I think this has given him the opportunity to move through his process. We don’t just it’s been my experience so far that we don’t just die and suddenly everything’s fixed. Everything is perfect and we’re suddenly all knowing. It’s nothing like that. We have a higher perspective. We have a greater understanding. We recognize how our actions affected those around us. And I think that working with me now, my dad has the opportunity to sort of work through what he feels was maybe causing grief to the people he’d left behind based on his action. This is an opportunity for him to sort of heal some of that with us left behind. And so in that way, my grief and the grief of the family has been very important into serving other people who are working through grief, growing up. And I think that this is not uncommon. I hear it all the time. People who have had challenging upbringings, you know, moved around a lot. Maybe my mom got married a lot, and we lived with our grandmother half the time. And so there was a lot of emotional and mental patterns that needed to be broken, a lot of cycles that needed to be broken through my my mom and her parents and different things like that. So they were dealing with constant grief, regrets, and and challenges on their own, which affected how their children were being raised. Luckily for me, I had my team in spirit who would come in because, you know, in order to get a little bit of peace, I would go sit in an empty bathtub and close the door as a little kid, and that’s where I would find a loan time. And I could just focus on the silence. And it was at that time, sometimes, not every time that my team would come in and they would they would never tell me, you know, they would always tell me everything’s gonna be okay, but they would never tell me what I was seeing or witnessing, but they would suggest other perspectives to help me understand perhaps. The decisions behind my parents and grandparents. And that would help me realize that maybe it isn’t all about me. When when you’re a kid, everything’s about you, you have to be or you wouldn’t survive. Right? So and you start to recognize their own hurt and their pain. And it was maybe more of a gift for me to be able to see that early on because of the suggestions from my team and spirit. But there’s a lot of grief in my family that needed to be worked through. And so I feel like maybe perhaps there’s a lot of just grief that is around me, and so I’m being given an opportunity to help other people find peace in that.

Victoria Volk: I had another guest. She was a medium. That once said that there was a parent that had lost a child and the child had died by suicide. And the child came to the parent through this medium. And she said, you know, told this mother that he’s in school. Like, that’s how he described it. Like, he was in school. And so when you were talking about how your father is, like, he’s through you. Is that right? He’s kinda working through his transgressions as in things that he did maybe to others in the physical plane. Like, it’s his school. Like, that makes me think of that. Is that how it comes to you or how you would describe those on the other side kind of describe it as well?

Helen Gretchen Jones: Yeah. Actually, when you mentioned that, so when I sit with other people for an intuitive reading and their loved ones come through almost every single time, they show me classes. And it’s such an interesting thing because you’re thinking, oh, like, classes, but you that’s literally what it looks like. It looks like classrooms. It looks like gatherings on green lawns. Even like it’s gatherings of people with an instructor or some person who has experience in that one field. So one of the things my dad has shown me would be communication. And working with how to communicate more effectively, how to communicate cross, you know, more I don’t know what that would be, like, from physical to non physical dimensions. People have shown me I have one client whose mom showed me that she was studying the stars. And I know that sounds kind of silly or just like the like astronomy or, you know, like, but yes, apparently there’s some there she’s showing me studying celestial bodies of some sort. And this was an interest that she was kind of moving her soul into that direction for a little while. And I do, I see it as classrooms. But these are not like our classrooms that we have here. They’re just so much more hands on and they’re they feel huge. And they feel connected and they feel just expansive. So, yeah, it’s like a school even over there, classrooms and learning potentials and how awesome is that, or we’d get so crazy bored just playing a harp on the cloud somewhere.

Victoria Volk: So what do you think is the most frustrating in your experience that people who are trying to communicate with us on the physical plane? What what are the frustrations that you receive?

Helen Gretchen Jones: That people in spirit are having?

Victoria Volk: Yeah.

Helen Gretchen Jones: That we’re dismissive, that we dismiss signs, that we don’t allow. There’s okay. Well, here’s another thing. That we don’t allow. We dismiss imagination as make believe instead of allowing our imaginations. Like, we’re here as humans on this planet. We came here to experience this physical reality And part of the best thing about being human is we get to create and co create our experience on this planet. That is like like, that’s like the best part about being here. So your your mindset, your thoughts, your perspective, your choices, your everything is co creating your experience here. So in order for that to happen, you have to come up with an idea or set an intention or imagine it. But when you we have the setup thing that imagination is pretend and it’s not thoughts create things. They create worlds. So when you’re sitting here wanting to connect to spirit and you’re imagining sitting on a park bench in New York or whatever you want to do through a guided hypnosis or meditation, and you say, okay, I like a loved one or one of my guides to come sit next to me on this bench and then they do and then they give you a message and you’re like, that’s nice, but I imagined all of that because I wanted it and I created it and we dismiss the cocreation with spirit. Spirit’s like great. She’s setting up a bench in New York for me to come sit on. I’m gonna do it and now she’s gonna dismiss it because she thinks she’s completely imagining it instead of reframing imagination instead of his make believe but calling it co creation with Spirit.

Victoria Volk: I love that. I love that. Got it. Maybe you think of something else and then it slipped my mind now. Maybe you know what it was.

Helen Gretchen Jones: I just I just I I hope that anyone who hears this would consider doing a guided meditation or a hypnosis session, whatever works best for you. And to realize that all these words that we put on it, like, it’s a hypnosis session, it’s a, you know, raky event, which is, you know, an energy healing, doesn’t matter what you call it. It’s what the intention you place behind it. Words can be just semantics because once we put a label on something, we limit it, you know, anyway. So just know that you’re here creating this world And if you choose to connect to your team and spirit or to god or to angels or whoever, then do it and don’t dismiss it, write it down. And you’ll start to recognize that discernment will strengthen. You’ll start to be able to interpret messages more strongly. And less through the filter of your human mind. It’s a fantastic way to connect.

Victoria Volk: So how can we connect to our team? How do we know who our team is? How do you

Helen Gretchen Jones: think about that?

Victoria Volk: Who is your team?

Helen Gretchen Jones: So okay. So my team is a very large collective, and it’s a group of, you know, angelics, ascended masters, ancestors, alternate dimensional beings, aliens, like it doesn’t matter. It’s whatever physical body you wanna put them in, it doesn’t matter. But for me, I like having a physical archetype body that can step forward in my thoughts as a way of connecting. So there’s a few that have come through pretty regularly more than Sometimes I’ll just see one one time and that’s it. But I have one whose name is LIRA. I heard her name LIRA or LIRA LIRA LIRA and she always comes through as this blue light. So sometimes she looks elderly, sometimes she looks young, but she’s blue. I was like, okay, I just focused one night on meeting one of them, and she was the first one that comes through and I’m like, okay, well, I’m gonna need sign this week. I’m gonna need to hear your name three times for me to know if that’s really your name and that’s gonna be something I can all week long. That’s what I’m gonna need. And it happened. So I had a friend come up and talk to me. Guess what I just learned about the constellations. There’s constellation. They mentioned the Leerink constellation or, you know, something like that. And I was like, I didn’t really need to hear that whole conversation about the constellations, but it was important that I heard that name mentioned. Then there was another someone said, hey, I’m sending you an audiobook you need to listen to was my neighbor. And the opening credits was talking about someone named LIRA. And I was just like, oh, okay. There’s never I didn’t even read the book. I only think I needed to hear the opening credits. And then a third person was I was having a session done, and she goes, you have a guy named LIRA. So I know that now that’s like an actual intuitive coming in. And but it was and I was like, I do. And you’re the third third validation. And then another one, and this is a strange one. It’s a guy named kissinger. K? I only know of one kissinger, and he’s still alive, and he’s a political figure. And but that was the name that I heard. And I was like, okay. That is so lame. Like, I even looked at what kissinger meant, and it’s like farm or bOG or something. It wasn’t something that meant like, you know, I don’t even know what I was looking for, but kissinger was not it. But I was like, alright, guys, three times you know the rule. Right? Well, I got it three times in one night. I had gone before bed, I’d gone to Barnes and Noble’s. And apparently, there was a right when he walked in a whole display.
I guess, kissinger had done a book or something fairly, like, in the last seven or eight years or something. And there was a display right when I walked in. I wasn’t even gonna go to Barnes and Noble’s. It was right by Old Navy, and I just swung by because I had some extra time to kill. Okay. So anyway, so there it was. Okay. And then I go home, I’m like, fine. Okay. I go home. I literally lay down in bed and just turn on the TV person that pops up is a is a documentary on. Kissinger. I was like, that’s two, you guys. And then my husband and I run a photography rental business. I’m I’m in the studio now. And somebody texted me, hey, do you have this and this and this equipment? And one of the words was kissinger. And they said, that’s so weird. It corrected. Auto corrected it. I meant the word to be profoto, which is nowhere near the word kissinger. Yeah. So I was like, that was my third one. So I got kissinger all in one day. So I’m like, okay.
I called one of my guys kissinger. So anyway,

Victoria Volk: that’s very unique names too, by the way. Like, very unique, like, LIRA and kissinger. Like, under so weird. You know.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Right. But I asked for validation, and I said I needed to hear it three times in the week. And then I didn’t start trying to connect to an individual guide until the other one was confirmed. So that’s how I did it. And there are people I frequently see people’s guides, and so I can connect people to their guides. And I have several people who are intuitive to do the same thing with guides. But my thought is to come up with your own name. You can call them whatever you want. Call them Frank. And then they will make sure Frank is validated three times because they don’t care what you call them. The most important thing is that you’re willing to connect to them and that you interpret their message and their messages are always beautiful.

Victoria Volk: So is your dad part of the a team? Or is he just kind of a special guy that just that you choose when you connect to? Or is he kind of like, no, I wanna connect with you now. This is we would need to have this conversation now.

Helen Gretchen Jones: That’s really interesting. And I would be I would love to hear other people’s feedback on their experience around this. I have found that when people transition, they’re really loud and clear and available very frequently the first year. Then after that, it’s like they’re kinda like, alright, I’m ready to go start my own class, my own stuff, you know, which I know time isn’t linear over there. So at least I understand that to be the case. So in that, why is it a year? It just seems to be that people tend maybe because weren’t they don’t they’re not needed as much. That first year after someone dies, we’re constantly reaching out to them on a heart level, you know, grieving them. And so maybe that’s why they’re around so much. So if my dad pops in, I call them a part of a team, but he’s he comes and goes. I have some that are more static. But for the most case, a lot of my collective that’s why I like to call them a collective is because they’re not they come and go as as as I need.

Victoria Volk: Just this morning, I was watching the news and Well, last night, there was the Dodgers and Yankee’s game. And so on the news this morning, it was all about the Dodgers player. And I don’t know all the names. I don’t even remember, but it and it doesn’t matter. I wanna speak to the synchronicity of it.
And I was just, like, sitting there, like, And I’m wondering if anybody else is watching this like, wow, that is really crazy and synchronistic. But I picked up on it. It’s the the dodger that he hit a grand slam home run run through like last night. First time in is it the first time in World Series history? I’m not sure. I don’t think so. Because the last time it happened, I think, was another dodger. However, many years ago, many, many years ago, who had a limp leg just like this dodger. And it happened at I can’t even remember the time right now. I should have written it down, but it was, like, a minute, within a minute apart.
The grand slam, like, both of them. Like,

Helen Gretchen Jones: this domestic.

Victoria Volk: And it was like and I don’t know if the other dodger is passed on by now. I I would assume he has. I’m not even sure. I’m gonna have to go down rabbit hole on that. But it just was fascinating to me. Like, there there is something about that that just caught my attention. You know?

Helen Gretchen Jones: I think if it catches your attention, then you should go down that rabbit hole a little bit because I think that plays into your general awareness of synchronicities. And so maybe someone’s trying to get your attention as well.

Victoria Volk: That could be interesting. So have you gotten a ballpark on yourself?

Helen Gretchen Jones: I have not. That’s a really good question. But when I sit down to do meditations, they tell me that this is a short life. This is a they always say, dear one, young one, something like that. They Dear child, whatever.
They But they tell me that this is a short life for me. So I either have to acknowledge that it’s a short life because I’m human. And this relatively speaking is a short life, or I could go tomorrow. So knowing that this is a short life and that perhaps on a soul level, maybe I’ve already made that choice and I’m not aware of it. Yeah. I mean, it could happen. I can get diagnosed next year, like who knows tomorrow? I don’t know. So I I try to live each day in the flow. I ask myself, am I in the flow of where I wanna be right now? What is the most exciting thing that’s lined up for my day? That’s what I’m gonna choose first. And so, like, if you’re at home, like, I got to have a day, I think, last Thursday, which was housecleaning day, that sounds kind of lame, but gosh, I feel good when it’s done. And so I just kind of looked at all the chores which one do I wanna do first? Which one excites me the most? You know? And I would just do that one first. It doesn’t have to be like you’re always going to the club or, you know, doing something profound like writing a book or reaching out at a seminar. It didn’t have to be that way to seek excitement your day. For me, laundry was the least exciting thing it got saved at the end. But but what was most exciting was for me, unloading the dishwasher and loading it. That was the first thing I started with. So it can be even the little thing. So if I find that I’m in the flow of life, that sort of dictates where I’m going because I do believe my life here will be short.

Victoria Volk: So how have you utilize this gift in your life personally? Through personal endeavors, careers, relationships, and how has that shifted from probably your teen years? Well, even maybe young adult years to to now.

Helen Gretchen Jones: So it shifted a lot actually, but I’m going to give a lot of credit to my team and spirit, or I’m going to give credit to myself for being open to the teachings from my team and spirit. I can say that as well because it’s easy to dismiss. That can be subtle sometimes. But when you’re first born and you’re a kid and you’re a teenager, you are so self centered. You have to be for survival. You are recognizing the patterns of your family. You’re looking to see how you can fit in the most how you could stay out of trouble the most, you know, what what lies is an okay thing to do and not everything is based on observing your surroundings, changing your self to fit in both at school and at home and on every level. And all of that is part of the growing up process and trying to figure out who you are in this big old jumble of personalities. So it wasn’t until I was a young adult doing everything I thought I was supposed to be doing. Because what everybody else told me I should do, which was, you know, graduate high school, go to college, get married, have kids. I mean, it’s just kinda like you do what you’re told, what everybody else’s dreams are. And if something happens in your early adulthood, where you start to recognize that you’re different than how you’ve maybe allowed yourself to be this whole time. And my team and spirit, that’s when they started coming around when I was in my early twenties and trying to really force compassion. And compassion is something that’s really hard to have unless it’s like a beloved person or animal that you’ve lost in childhood because you are so self centered and you have to be in order to survive and thrive. So when my team started pushing compassion, they would say, put yourself in their shoes, but not how you would do things differently, not how you would change it, not what you would have done to fix it, or what you could do to fix it just be. Just be in their shoes and experience what they’re experiencing. And that quickly takes you out of that me me me mindset. You know? And so I think that was important to moving me through upcoming grief understanding other people’s grief and having sympathy for that and helping me to navigate who I am as a person and be more understanding to who everybody else is and less judgmental because man, it’s easy to judge others because you always think you have the I wouldn’t have done that. I wouldn’t have done something differently, but that is the mindset of someone who is twenty five and younger. No. But it’s time to move past that when you’re no longer a child. And you can make your own choices and it’s important to consider how you fit in the other part of this world without having to compromise who you are.

Victoria Volk: Would you say that as a child and as an adult, you as a person are an empath or highly sensitive because I I always thought they were kind of the same, but they’re not, like in a highly sensitive person isn’t necessarily an empath, but an empath is always highly sensitive is what I’ve learned. What are your thoughts around that? And I think as a child for me personally, and because when I was listening to you speak, that was something I think that came natural to me. Like, I felt everybody’s stuff so much. Almost too much. I didn’t know what to do with it. I had to I lost my father when I was eight. My grandmother the year before that, there was just a lot of stuff and chaos in my life. And so it was like I needed a lot of sleep. It was like a curse to me. It was really was a curse. And so what what would you say to that? Like, what was your experience around that? And, you know, would you consider yourself an empath?

Helen Gretchen Jones: I wouldn’t have my sister was extremely empathic and sensitive. I would say she still is. And like you, she slept a lot. She couldn’t it made life feel so overwhelming sometimes for her, and she’s still very much that way. And she kind of scooby doo’s. That’s what I call it when you’re just kind of running in one spot, but don’t go anywhere. You know, you’re kinda like in a rut a little bit. So she has a tendency to do that based on her feelings and the feelings of everybody else around her can be so overwhelming. She’s extremely sensitive in that way. I was more walls up, put up walls, put up shielding and really kept myself from being overly involved because I couldn’t trust. I couldn’t trust that we weren’t gonna be moving tomorrow. I couldn’t trust that the person that my mom recently married is gonna staying around. And so I never allowed myself to indulge in the feelings of other people and hardly let myself do it for myself, you know. And so luckily allowing my team to come in and help me better understand the perspectives of why choices were being made when I couldn’t understand, kept me from some of that. Also, I don’t know, but I wonder if having a sibling who I was close to and living with, who was processing everybody else’s emotions along with hers. If that gave me the grace to not have to. And I think that frequently with healers, I find that many of them are sensitive and empathic because they are able to clear other people’s energy by kind of processing it through themselves also. When they don’t know how to move it without processing it when they’re early on. And I think my sister’s probably a healer who doesn’t do anything with it because it she’s so kind of overwhelmed by her stuff. I’m more of a teacher. And while I think everyone’s a teacher and a student, I think that you’re not always a healer if you’re a teacher, and you’re not always teaching if you’re a healer, but you can.

Victoria Volk: I love that. Yeah. And that’s where energy healing you know, I have I heard Ricky three times.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Oh, and you’re like, that’s what I’m doing.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. I I’m gonna look go down that rabbit hole. Yeah. It’s been a series of rabbit holes in the last, probably, six years. And the exponential growth I’ve had because of it of being open to hearing things repeatedly or going down these rabbit holes. And I always think of it as like this download or intuitive thought or curiosity that, like, drops in and then I follow it. And that’s just how it has appeared to me, but it’s never been, like, this direct it hasn’t felt like a direct communication. I think that’s what’s lacking for me. And that’s where my frustration is.

Helen Gretchen Jones: I mean, that’s pretty direct to hear Ricky three times. How does he do it?

Victoria Volk: That is that I guess I want more of it. You know, I want to be able to utilize that openness for myself as much as I’ve utilized it for other people. And I think that’s kind of I think I’m at the point where it’s like, okay, I want this from my own self. I want You know what I mean?

Helen Gretchen Jones: Because I didn’t

Victoria Volk: grew up as being an emotional caretaker for everybody else, and I’ve always often been that. And so now it’s like, alright, let’s go. I want I want I

Helen Gretchen Jones: that’s so funny.

Victoria Volk: I mean,

Helen Gretchen Jones: Do you have siblings?

Victoria Volk: I do. I’m the youngest.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Do you feel like I’m just curious now. And do you feel like you were more sensitive than the rest of them? Yes. Do you feel like you possibly processed some of the family’s emotions through some of those challenges and trying times, whereas they didn’t have to because you were doing it for them.

Victoria Volk: I never thought of it that way, but

Helen Gretchen Jones: some didn’t think about it. I don’t know. I feel like my sister may have done that for me and unknowingly, and I hadn’t thought about it till today. Actually, but I feel like that’s maybe something that happened.

Victoria Volk: Why else can we go with this? Because I I could talk all day. Are you how are you on time?

Helen Gretchen Jones: I’m good. I’m good. We’re just I don’t know. We’re just kinda going back and forth.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. I feel like we’re talking about a lot of different things. I have a series of questions that I have on my form, and I do wanna get to I wanna I wanna ask these because I feel like I want my listeners to get what they need to receive to from this. And from your experience of your own growth in grief, in working with others, in theirs. What would you what would be the piece of advice? And you you’ve shared a lot, but what is one thing that you were feeling guided to share in terms of I just received this diagnosis or my loved one just received this diagnosis or the flip side of that, there was no warning at all. What is the approach that you would suggest for both of those scenarios? I don’t even know what the question is. Really, what do you wanna say about that? Because it’s like, how do you connect in those circumstances? I don’t even know what the question is. So however you interpret me at I don’t know. I don’t even know what I’m saying anymore.

Helen Gretchen Jones: So here’s how I would interpret that. If someone is given a diagnosis and they’re like you’re it has spread everywhere you’ve literally got weeks, that’s a very scary thing. And if there’s someone out there who has a family member or the they’re themselves have they’ve just been given that diagnosis or that prognosis, then I would suggest with everything that you are to open up that bag and just say I’m going to just for one week allow myself to do this and I’m going to I’m going to say the things that I need never said, that needed to be said. And I’m even if it’s hurtful, I’m gonna say it in the kindest way possible. And I’m going to clear the air. And a lot of people find that it’s really hard to do that because they don’t want to say it to someone who is dying. They’re about to die anyway. You know what I mean? That’s what they say. They’re about to die anyway.
Why would I hurt them? They don’t have much time left? It isn’t about hurting. It’s about processing those emotions beforehand. And in my experience, whenever someone has been giving it any kind of diagnosis, whether they have months or weeks or less than that, when they allow themselves to say what they really need to say or they allow themselves to hear what hasn’t been said yet. It’s like a wait is lifted. It hurts in the moment because there’s some regrets usually around that, but quite honestly, There’s regrets around it because it’s been hurting for a long time. And it’s being pushed down and pushed down and people think that they ignore it, it’ll just eventually, you know, smooth itself out. It doesn’t. It lingers. But once they say it, it’s like They can exhale, they can breathe again, and it’s sort of like giving permission to the person who’s dying to go, that when they do die, it’s okay. I used to think that when I was there helping these families who are really navigating hurt and pain and resentment through their grief and loss, then I needed to be the strong one. And so I I thought I needed to not cry. And I needed to hold it all in and push it down and be the strong one like I’m some kind of amazing emotional person that could just process this and then everybody just, you know, I can just direct how everyone else needs to behave. But I found that one time I couldn’t do it and I broke down and I cried. I I couldn’t. I loved this person they were with me for a long time. And I broke down and I cried. And when I did, it’s like it was permission for everybody else. The family broke down and cried. And we think that we have to hold it all together. I mean, just imagine that holding it all together is so so much resistance. There’s tightness. There’s there’s no flow in it. But when you let it go and you let go of whatever you think people are gonna think about you for crying, for being vulnerable, for being open, it never works that way. People actually open up and become vulnerable themselves. And these people cry, they release whatever that pent up stuff is, that energy, and it makes it easier for them to say the things kindly that they always wanted to say. And so if you allow yourself to be authentically vulnerable, in those moments. That’s where you can flow through the grief, the hurt, and the pain in the resentment, no matter how much time this person has left. And I encourage everyone to allow themselves even if it’s just one day. Today is my vulnerable day. That’s what I would suggest.

Victoria Volk: And what about for those who didn’t have that opportunity?

Helen Gretchen Jones: Like my sister, one of my sisters. So for people who didn’t have that opportunity, if they’re okay. So this has happened or with with many of my clients actually, people who refuse to come in with the rest of the family, this this has happened before. And first, I would take into account what their religious and faith based belief systems are. So unless they’re atheist, including agnostics, they’ve leaving something, they just don’t know what it is. So unless they’re atheist, every faith based belief system believes that there is something more after death. Some know what it is, some don’t. K? That’s their belief. So I would navigate the grief through their belief systems. So if someone believes that there is an afterlife, then we start there. We start with this is not the final goodbye. We know that there’s something more. Years what you missed bedside, oftentimes there’s some spiritual experiences with beings of light, angelics, whatever it is. I would teach that oftentimes our loved ones will come in dreams and to be open and available to that. Depending on the person that I’m working with, I would also suggest a medium. And I know this is a nontraditional approach, but there are some pretty fantastic certified triple blind tested through university studies and there’s lists of these people. It’s a short list, you know, but, I mean, maybe a hundred, but they’re out there. These people are so phenomenal. And you get on their waitlist. There’s usually waitlist that could be six months, it could be a year, but here’s what I know. You’re gonna have to go through that six months or that year anyway. And all of a sudden, this opening shows up at the right time when you need it the most and sometimes there’s cancellations to move up the list, whatever. But you put yourself on that list and all of my experiences. And I know this sounds to say all, but I mean all of the people that I’ve worked with who have also worked with a medium. Say that the medium was able to bring them more closure, more more joy, more hope, and more connection than months with a therapist. So and I’m not there’s a place for therapy of absolutely especially processing your emotions through the physical body, it’s very, very important. But having that connection with your loved one and spirit authenticated and validated and being able to feel like they’re right here with you once again because they are and there are people out there who can perceive those energies. It’s very very healing, and it really moves you through that grief process, a little more lighthearted and a little bit more expansive than you were going into it.

Victoria Volk: What about those? Because you you kind of interpreted it as like someone who didn’t come into the room? But what if they’re in an event of an accident where nobody had where there wasn’t a chance, there wasn’t a diagnosis. It was very sudden,

Helen Gretchen Jones: like an accident. In that case, I would recommend the same thing. I would say, there’s so much healing. I know you probably know this, but if there’s anyone who hasn’t ever seen a medium, a really good medium, and I know that there are scammers out there, but there are scammers in every field. There are really bad doctors. There are really bad lawyers. There are really bad salesman and businessman. And there there’s going to be people who take advantage of people in all every field of work in industry. However, there are some really good ones out there who are on amazing websites that can really get you involved. There’s a Actually, this is kind of important to share. It’s a healing thing. There is a website, an organization called helping parents heal. Have you ever heard of them?

Victoria Volk: I have not.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Okay. Helping parents heal. It’s for people who have lost children. And it doesn’t matter the age of your child. But they have incredible gatherings. They have they’ve even done little branch off groups for fathers who have lost mothers who have lost siblings who have lost these people who are processing the grief of losing a child. And they bring in these big events that are just for helping parents heal families and they bring in mediums, the certified authenticated mediums who do group readings for these people and all of them say, my child was there. They knew things about my child that, you know, and then they tell you what the child’s doing now. And, you know, you get these experiences are often validated by the children in spirit. If you’re open to those signs, you know.
So it’s some of the most beautiful experiences, but they have a website with a list of mediums. So if anyone’s out there interested, I know I’m pushing the medium route, but I can tell you I know how non traditional it is, but how healing and processing that grief it can be. Even for people in accidents.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. I’ve heard that myself from people who’ve experienced mediums too. Yes. So you have this gift. Certainly, it helped you process your grief.
But what were some of the other ways and things that you discovered that helped you and worked for you, spirit guides aside? And maybe they probably actually came in and said, hey, you need to do this or you need to do that or this might help you or

Helen Gretchen Jones: Yes. And I do have some things that I do that are self care that help me move through grief because when you’re working as a death doula, you grieve the loss of the people that you formed connections with. I had one patient. I had he was on hospice for five years and I worked with him for four of them. I loved him deeply.
So you do. You do process a lot of grief as a death doula. And it’s kind of hard for the course, really. One thing that really helps me process that grief, and I don’t know what it is, but submerging myself in water, so like a bath. It’s like the field or the energy field around me. It’s like when everything gets submerged, it’s like it stops crackling or it stops. It’s like it all those little molecules or something. I don’t even know because I don’t know science. So I majored in art and religion. So it just all it’s like it somehow thizzles everything out. So for me, it’s submerging in water and that really, and it resets me, it grounds me, and it sort of helps me to take a breath, reevaluate where I am in this very present moment and recognize that everything is okay in this moment. It doesn’t take away my grief. But it certainly helps me to feel more in my body, grounded, and just present. And that helps. Another thing that I find is really really helpful is when I feel it in my body almost like anxiety like they’re too much moving through me is to move my body.
So I go on a brisk walk because if I run, I will I’m, you know, I’m not that fit. So I don’t need to be running, but I do a brisk walk or something and it feels like it shakes it out of me. And that’s really helpful too. So I encourage anyone to physically move. I don’t do this, but I’ve had several people say that this has been very helpful for them. And it’s something called, I’m a get I hope I’m getting it right, a screen pillow. It’s a pillow that they scream into. It’s like they put it over their face, like they’re smothering themselves, and they just scream, and they let it all out, and they have to do it a few times, and that’s sort of like purging that energy that’s been pent up through that kind of throat and solar plexus area of the body where it can feel like you’ve got knots through this grief. You know, how do we get it out you know, and so sometimes screaming is like a level of communication because you’re using your voice, but it’s a way of moving that energy out. I haven’t tried it, but I’ve heard good things about the screen pillow.

Victoria Volk: Well, I think, you know, in terms of anger, it’s very effective, probably, and safe, and non harming. Right. I recommend, you know, why not? You have nothing to lose. It’s worth a try. Actually, I found myself just doing that not that long ago. So, you know, when you’re

Helen Gretchen Jones: with the

Victoria Volk: yeah. When you’re angry, I mean, yeah. You know, even if it’s a cuss word, you know, which may or may not have been my the case for myself.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Like, password or two.

Victoria Volk: Just see what you gotta do. Right? No. That’s a great actually, that has never been suggested in the podcast. So

Helen Gretchen Jones: I will say one more thing. For me, one thing that really really like resets me and this sounds I’m sure cliche or cheesy, but it’s when I go outside and there’s a breeze. Feeling the breeze I close my eyes. I don’t know what it is about a breeze, but it’s like it’s carrying away things.

Victoria Volk: If you can set that intention. Right? Yeah. Set that intention. Yeah.

Helen Gretchen Jones: When the breeze really resets me, I’d love a good breeze.

Victoria Volk: Come to North Dakota, we got plenty of that.

Helen Gretchen Jones: I love

Victoria Volk: it. Flat, and there’s nothing but wind.

Helen Gretchen Jones: That’s good.

Victoria Volk: So you have written a book which we have not talked about yet, healing whispers from spirit guides. And you didn’t even mention it in your bio, which have found interesting. Oh, oh,

Helen Gretchen Jones: you know, that’s how interesting.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. So when did this book come about? And What was the intuitive hit or inspired hit or the guidance that you received around that?

Helen Gretchen Jones: So it was June three years ago, and I woke up and then it was kissinger actually who we talked about already. Normally, when I hear my team in spirit, I hear them inside my head so very subjectively. This time, Kay came across very objectively. I felt like it was right in front of my face. And he said, you’re going to write a book. And I have never had an interest in writing a book. I can’t imagine I am a mom. You know, my I helped my husband with the family business like I seemed so incredibly normal that I didn’t feel like I had anything interesting or valuable to say. And I was like, well, what would I even write about? And they said, write what you know? And it would take you about two and a half years to complete. I took they said two years to complete, it took two and a half. Ballpark. So I started to think about what is it that I know. I know a little but a lot of things, but I didn’t feel like I was an expert in any specific area. And then it did occur to me that I had all these journals. I had all these journals that I’ve been journaling every single time I went to go visit a patient. I talked about what they were going through, what their families were going through, and then I would journal there, when I would be there, when they were dying, and the shared death experiences that I had. So I get to go part way in the spirit world with them. And I journaled these synchronicities and these teachings where my team and spirit would come in and say this is what he’s experiencing, this is what the doctors are saying, and this is what’s actually happening. And so I have these really great journals, and I just referred to those, picked out a few of my favorite patient stories, put him in the book, and then I preceded each patient’s story with a what I learned through the grieving process, through the healing process, what I’ve learned working with Spirit. One one of the chapters is called signs and synchronicities. Right? So what to look force that you understand when knowing that you don’t have to be bedside when someone dies, you can be in a whole another part of the world. Time and space does not matter in these moments. So all these teachings followed by a patient chapter and I end every single chapter with a a channel message from my team and spirit. Usually, it’s kind of beautiful message that they that were already in these journals, actually, that I’ve been put together with these chapters. So so, yeah, it’s it’s It’s just, I think, a book that talks about healing and grieving and the dying process and and how beautiful it can be.

Victoria Volk: And I’ll put the link to that and the show notes, of course. Yeah. What is one of the stories that has touched you the most and has really just stuck with you.

Helen Gretchen Jones: I’m trying to how do I pick one? I guess I’m gonna talk about mister Rob Robinson. Of course, I’ve changed their names for their privacy with the HIPAA acts and stuff. But mister Robinson was an older man. He was put in a nursing home. He had failure to thrive. He was very, very skinny, and he was on oxygen. And did not wanna talk to me. I was like, he was he was very grouchy. But I insisted I showed up every time when I would sit with him.

Victoria Volk: as a volunteer.

Helen Gretchen Jones: I was a volunteer. Yes. His family actually asked for a volunteer through hospice, and he didn’t want one. And so I was volunteering through hospice at this time. And he all he wanted to talk about was his very minimal but still important contribution scientifically in engineering wise to a specific car part. Okay? So, I mean, he was very much caught in because he was so worried about what am I leaving behind. What has my life amounted to. This is where he he didn’t family. He has a couple of kids, but they were living their life with their kids. They weren’t coming to visit very much. And he felt alone and he was trying to figure out what was the point of all this. And so we started just him and I. We were we would work talking about how great it was that he had his discovery But what do you think is most important now? We kind of really worked around that. And eventually and it took a couple of months actually. He said, you know, one thing that I really missed out on is I didn’t travel until I was after age sixty five. And I was told that you do and as we all were told, right, probably growing up, that that’s what you do. You work really hard. You get a good job.
And then at sixty five, you retire, and you travel, and you do all the things that you really wanna do, and you golf, or whatever it is. And that’s what he said he did. And he said, but shortly after sixty five, I my health vaded. And I couldn’t go do all the things. I always knew I was going to do because I wasn’t capable of, you know, walking that. I couldn’t hike anything anymore or my knees or, you know, whatever it was. He had all these ailments. And he’s like, I really feel like I missed out on the good parts of life. And then he said, he would tell me about how his children were sort of problems, how they had all these problems. He doesn’t know how they’re gonna get out of their problems. There was all these different problems. Children were having that in his perception. And then I would say, why are those problems? And I would say, tell me, what’s so wrong with that choice? What’s so and we would negotiate sort of through those stories? And then when I would say something mister Robinson wouldn’t like he would pretend to fall asleep. He would all of a sudden I mean, he would just check out, and that was it. That that’s how he ended our our conversations all the time. That was, like, nope, done, honestly. Well, one time I came in and his daughter was there. And we Mr. Robinson and I’ve been really working through how it was important to share how you’re feeling with your family when they’re here and he’s like not gonna happen, not not gonna do it. But I guess something got through because I walked in and his daughter was crying and he was asleep. I don’t believe he was really asleep. Think that’s how he ended the conversation with his daughter. He’d take to sleep. He basically she had recorded the whole thing. He said she said I had never had a conversation with my dad like this before. It was the most healing experience, and she’s like, I can’t She goes, everything’s okay now. Basically, he told her that he loved her so much, that she’s doing such a good job as a parent, and he recognizes now that he lived his life based on how society wanted him to be a dad, how society wanted him to provide, how society wanted him to he he realized that he didn’t he made choices based on what he believed society wanted him to to live like, and he didn’t want that for her. And that she was more free spirited. And, you know, I guess, she’d had children with multiple dads and she never went to college. These are things that really bothered him. And he’s like, now I see you’re a free spirit and you’re finding love where love is. And you’re a good mom. And so he said, all these amazing things that she really needed to hear. And he said, you know, he was atheist because he’s a scientist. He said, you know, but I do believe there must be a God because he brought me you and I can’t believe that he would bring me one of the most joyful people in my life and then take take her away from me and say I could never see her again. So I know I’m gonna see you again and so all of these beautiful things. So working with someone right where they are. Not telling them they’re wrong, not just giving them suggestions and letting them process that information on their own was enough to give her closure, to give him closure, and for them to both leave feeling that there was hope that they were connected, that there was love, and that there was so much more than what their physical eyes could perceive.

Victoria Volk: And if that full body kills, it reminds me of my own story of going to see my uncle. I hadn’t seen him. He was the only living well, he was very close to my dad. And when my dad died, he, you know, he said that he was gonna take care of us and watch over us. Well, apparently, he didn’t. And that was a really strong resentment towards him from my mother and and, you know, we were told these stories growing up. And so my dad’s family pretty much were not in my life after he passed, and my uncle wasn’t either. And my mother I was in the writing phase of my book and her the editing phase, and my mother had called me and said that he had terminal brain cancer. And I decided that same day that I’m gonna go see him. It had been almost pretty close to thirty years to the day. And I went to go see him and we had about six months of reconnection and it transformed, I think, both of us for both of us, it was transforming because he hadn’t seen me since my dad’s funeral. I hadn’t seen him. And I just felt like I had to do it for him. Like I had to go for him. Unbeknownst to me, it was actually very healing for me too. Yeah. You know. So it reminds me of that, you know, of of how really truly healing it can be to just set aside whatever stories Yes. We’re told and whatever stories that we’ve been led to believe. That you can

Helen Gretchen Jones: or that we’ve created,

Victoria Volk: yeah, or that we’ve created, and that you can choose a different story at any moment.

Helen Gretchen Jones: And if you can just be brave enough to just take that step and do it, and vulnerable, brave and vulnerable. And it’s the hardest part is leading up to it. Once you’re there and you actually do it, things unfold so beautifully usually.

Victoria Volk: Yeah, I knocked on the door. I didn’t know he’d bring cancer. Was he gonna remember me? Did he wanna see me? I had no idea.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Wow,

Victoria Volk: but I didn’t care. It was like this mission that was given to me, you know. It was like I had to be there. And within ten minutes, my two cousins knocked on the door and came in. Who I hadn’t seen either in just as much time.
One from Connecticut, like states across the country, you know. So it was really crazy how that all came to be and turned out, but Yeah. That reminded me of that.

Helen Gretchen Jones: How did your mom take that? Can I ask?

Victoria Volk: Not very well, actually. My siblings didn’t either. And then my sister actually ended up going to see him herself Or, yeah, she went to see him herself and she did not have the same experience. And, you know, I was just like, well, you know, my intention was maybe different than yours You know? I don’t know.

Helen Gretchen Jones: But then if you were open to change and connection.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. Even my book that wasn’t received very well either by my mother, but Fortunately for me, like doing the grief work for myself, like going through grief recovery and doing a lot of personal work, I’ve changed that story. You know, I’ve been able to rewrite that story. And I feel like my mom’s eighty two, she could go at any time. Right? I feel like because of the work that I’ve done, I feel like in just the personal knowing that I have about what the importance of end of life. Right? Like, having conversations on this podcast in particular too have have been healing for me just to understand that whatever I need to say I can there is a way to work through it without having that conversation, but there is also a lot of healing that can happen when you have that conversation with the other that can happen for them.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Yes. Right?

Victoria Volk: And it’s saying we’re all connected. Yeah. It’s discerning what’s mine and what’s theirs and what is meant to be shared Yes. That can be healing for both. Yeah. So how do you discern that? Like, do you share everything that comes through? Or is it Yeah. Probably not.

Helen Gretchen Jones: No. I want to. I’m excited about messages that come through, and I am always eager to have them validated. And I can be a little impatient. But as people can be, I suppose. But I don’t share everything that comes through at all. I do try to write everything down. And the reason I don’t share is because I think sometimes the information is more for me to guide, yeah, because you can tell someone something all you want, you can teach them and and preach to them all you want about a specific thing. But instead, if I were to take that information and suggest come around the edges a little bit, and then they have their own aha moment and they come to that on their own. Oh, that’s what’s healing. That’s what sticks. So you can, you know, say whatever you want to someone, but all you have to do. So I think when the information comes in, I’ll sort of come about it in a roundabout way so that they come up with the idea or they process that information without me having to say aha. But once they do, then it’s validating for me. And I don’t have to say, oh, it was validated for me because it isn’t about me. Mhmm. But it does tell me that I’m on the right path when that information is validated and that I’m doing something for them or I’m helping them come to terms on their own. Because I know I as a healer, I’m sure you know, you can’t heal someone, but you can start the process of having of having them heal themselves. You can be that catalyst for them, but you you can’t heal someone who doesn’t wanna be healed.

Victoria Volk: That’s me. Absolutely. I learned that the hard way. You know, I’m curious if you were as a kid, were you like a questioner? Like, why why why?
Or were you a questioner type of kid?

Helen Gretchen Jones: So what was interesting is I would say, yes, I was very curious and I wanted to understand things. I’m also a first born, so I think that feeling in control, if psychology has anything to do with it, being in control and understanding what’s happening around you is important for the first born because they feel like they need to, you know, take care of the younger ones. So I guess that was a questioner, but for the most part, if someone would tell me something and this is true to this day and they talk with their hands, so that has to be both, I don’t know. And they’re talking with their hands and they’re it comes right here in front of their chest. Okay? If they’re saying something that is heartfelt and true, it’ll be like this kind of shimmer of light behind it, but only if it’s in front of their chest. If they’re saying something that is not quite true or they are exaggerating or they’re trying to convince the people who they’re talking to that it’s truth, when it’s not full truth, that kind of thing, or a flat out lie, I guess, could also be the case. But most people try to, you know, embellish the truth. You know, whenever that happens, there’s like this little shadow that comes up. And I only see it in front of the chest, and I only see it come from the hands. So sometimes when people would say something even in childhood and I would see that, I wouldn’t have to question. But in my mind, I’d be questioning why they felt the need to say that if it wasn’t true. So I wouldn’t ask them, why are you lying? Because I was watching to see how it would play out between the adults. But it was an interesting dynamic and under any truth and exciting it’s coming from my heart truth.

Victoria Volk: That’s fascinating. What do you feel like you need to share or want to share that you maybe haven’t gotten to yet?

Helen Gretchen Jones: I think, Beth Dula, I’m going to maybe if I could talk a little bit about that. It’s a relatively new position, and I think it has come up about with our changing healthcare system. Nurses have so much more responsibility in paperwork now that they have to adhere to, and they just can’t spend time with patients like they used to. And so there is a need for people in hospitals to have people sitting with them, those who are terminal. And that’s where a death doula kind of fits in. And when I’ve talked to people in the past, there are death doula who typically are very spiritual in some way. But I think that it’s important to note that The most important thing I believe about being a death doula is to meet people where they are. I have helped people of all religion, of all different faiths, of all different cultures, And I’ve even had them have their faith contradicted near death. And when someone’s dying, they take comfort in their faith, and it’s not the time to really play up those contradictions. No, it’s time to figure out how those contradictions, how can you make them okay? Because it’s all about finding someone peace. It’s all about peace being a death doula. At least that’s my belief. So if you’re a death doula or you’re interested in working with people who are dying there are organizations such as hospices. Also, there’s an organization called Noda, which I volunteer for. It stands for no one dies alone. It’s a hospital based program throughout the country. And it’s for people who have no family. Maybe they never had kids, maybe family lives out of the country, or out of the state, and can’t afford to come in. Maybe they were total jerks and burned all their bridges, and nobody wants to be there. It doesn’t matter. There are people everyday dying alone in hospitals. And they don’t have anyone to sit with them. So a note of volunteer, it’s a weekend training, that’s all it is, and a flu shot. And you and they send out this email blast to all their volunteers, and you sign up for three hour shifts. And these are people who have already entered the actively dying phase, which means the last seventy two hours or less. Most of the time, they’re already unconscious. You go in to sit with them. You are going in and you are doing what you believe is best for them in that moment unless they have a bio sheet and sometimes they do which tells you their faith. So if you’re working with someone who’s a devout Baptist, which happened to me, then I put on I played some hymns from my phone, you know, that I thought she would enjoy. And I put my hands on her and I did a little bit of energy work and things like that. I’m healing from my heart. I’m forming that connection. So there’s a need for people to be with those who are dying, especially since nurses aren’t able to do it like they used to be able to. So I would encourage anyone who feels like this might be something to absolutely pursue it. It’s very rewarding.

Victoria Volk: You know, that brings up something for me because I have, you know, nursing homes in my area and we have a hospital, but I’m very rural. There’s a high likelihood that my nearest hospital is not a participant of this and I mean, I’m I believe I’m probably the only train death to Dula in my entire county probably for ninety miles around me. Yeah. I’m gonna I’m gonna consider that.

Helen Gretchen Jones: It’s a quick phone call or email to let people know that you’re here and to help them understand how you’re valuable and you are. You know? And I think that anyone who’s working in those areas under stands that there are families who are already grieving before their loved one has transitioned, who are processing so much, am I doing the right thing? Am I putting my loved one in the nursing home? Am I, you know, are they getting their needs met?
There’s all these questions people have if they’re doing the right thing? Around their loved one. And if you’re there to consult with them and to help them understand, in most cases, nursing homes are understaffed and underpaid. And so it’s been my experience so far. That you do have to be still very, very present as a caregiver even when you have them in a nursing home. And it isn’t about doing right or wrong because it really doesn’t matter in that way. But understanding that just because you have them in a nursing home doesn’t mean you’re completely you can let go. You still need to check-in on them and make sure they’re being monitored in the best way possible and being an advocate for them.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. My dad had passed away in a nursing home. Yeah. I wasn’t there. Imagine, you know, it’s like most people, like your passions, become come from a place of your wounding. Right? Just like you’re what you’re doing now, the experience of losing your father, like, was this catapult and what you’re doing today? And so what do you what gives you hope for the future?

Helen Gretchen Jones: I don’t know. I think I’m eternally hopeful all the time.

Victoria Volk: That’s good. No. It’s actually a very different answer than I’ve ever received. So thank you.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Oh, I I just I guess I choose the story where I see so much love and hope on this on this entire planet, and I am so aware that I get to create and co create my experiences. With my team and that’s what I want. And so that’s what I make choices around. So like when we hang up here, I will be doing a meditation sometime before nine o’clock tonight and I will be attempting to connect to my team because when it does have a feel connected, I feel inflow with the world around me and that is hopeful and that is loving and that is connected. But I have to do the work. If I go days without meditating and it does happen, I start to really get into my human. I start to really focus on all these physical little challenges that can I can blow up to be bigger than what they really are? But when I do the work and I say, today’s, you know, I’m gonna I’m gonna take five minutes, ten minutes, twenty minutes, and do my meditation. That’s how it started. I mean, now my meditations are often over an hour, but because I want them to be.
I feel so good. But initially, it’s five minutes. I’m like, wow. Five minutes was nothing. And I just feel so much more connected to this world and to myself.
So, yeah, that’s I’m hopeful because I choose to be.

Victoria Volk: Like you said, we have to do the work.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Yeah. And it’s really not that hard of work to connect.

Victoria Volk: Was there anything else we would like to share?

Helen Gretchen Jones: Yeah. I feel like we covered a lot of information. I just I just want people to know that they’re not alone in their grief and that every single person goes through it and finding a way that is most helpful for you is beneficial not just to you but to the family and the people that you surround yourself with because they can feel your grief as well. And I encourage, like I mentioned earlier, if people are open to it, to consider even if it’s out of curiosity, a medium. Because so much screen, they could go through one thirty minute, forty five minute or hour session with the medium and come out of it feeling I mean, you process it for days, but you feel like you’re on CloudNine. And it’s it’s sort of like this beautiful high of being connected again to your loved one. And so I encourage if your grief is around the loss of a loved one and not the loss of, you know, a job or a, you know, a home or anything else like that if it really is a medium can help in that way.

Victoria Volk: And I would piggyback that to challenge your stories and beliefs that you have because they could be the very thing that’s handicap handicapping your healing.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Absolutely. And it is one of the hardest things that we can ever do, which is self reflect. And people who don’t self reflect always think they’re self reflecting. But one way to know if you’re genuinely self reflecting is if you come up with a defense. For your actions in some way. You know what? I behave this way because of this. If there’s a defense to your thoughts, then you’re not fully self reflecting. You’re still trying to make right your choice. And so I would suggest that. So if you’re truly being self reflective and trying to bring in that self awareness, you’re not trying to defend in any way your actions or your choices.

Victoria Volk: That’s juicy. I love that. That’s good. What was the website that you would recommend that people go to to find a qualified vetted medium?

Helen Gretchen Jones: Yes. Okay. So I know helping parents heal has one. Has a a list. And there are other lists out there. And I’m trying to remember the universities that do it. I feel like it might have been a university. I I see I don’t wanna give the wrong ones, but I feel like if I had to and I could be wrong, I think that there was one in Arizona, one in North Texas, and one in Virginia that have qualified, had done research studies on these vetted mediums, and have put out a list of these people. So I could be wrong on those. I feel like maybe though that those are correct, but you can even Google certified mediums, things like that, and there’s some really good ones out there. A lot, actually.

Victoria Volk: Okay. I will do some research or if you want us if you find know of a link that you have, send it to me and I’ll add it to the show notes. And then also where can people find you if they wanna connect with you, read your book, where can they find that, all of that good stuff?

Helen Gretchen Jones: So my website is helen gretchen jones dot com. And on there, you can find information about the book and the services that I offer. My book is sold on barnes and nobles dot com and, of course, on Amazon. And it’s both in it’s in three ways. It’s in paperback, Kendall, and an audiobook.
Red by yours truly.

Victoria Volk: Awesome. And where on social media are you? People listening.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Oh, I’m so bad with social media. Like, it is not my favorite thing. I am on Facebook under Helen Gretchen Jones, and I am also on Instagram under Helen Gretchen Jones. I did get banned from TikTok because I said death too many times and I you’re supposed to say unalive. But that’s really difficult.
I know. I know. I On a live

Victoria Volk: What is this world coming to? This is why we are so uncomfortable with death and dying. Right.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Exactly. Exactly.

Victoria Volk: Oh, you can’t say death now or dead or dying? Like,

Helen Gretchen Jones: And you can’t and I don’t it just seems so silly to me because death comes for the old as well as the young, the sick, and the healthy. I mean, it’s it comes for every single being and yet the longer that, you know, and whenever I think it started probably if I had to really do some research. I think it’s probably around the civil wartime when we started having to involve our soldiers in order to get them home. You know? And once that started happening, there became this new culture for us where we when someone dies, we have someone else collect the body, someone else cleanses the bot cleanses the body, someone else puts the body, you know, goes through the embalming process, someone else lowers the body into the ground like it’s so distant. You know? So we’ve we’ve created this for ourselves. And so now death is something to be feared. It’s the unknown. It’s distant from what we have to deal with. And we fear the unknown when that happens. And so we’ve created this culture of death as a taboo topic. And Certainly, I think with the book and with interviews, like the one I’m having with you now, one of the goals is to normalize talking about death and to also normalize talking about the spiritual experiences around death.

Victoria Volk: And how healing it can be when we open ourselves to a different possibility.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Don’t shut yourself off. That’s right. Allow yourself to be curious always and be open. You know, it’s the best.

Victoria Volk: Just got full body chills. That was the main message here today, folks. Thank you so much for being here, Helen, for sharing all that you shared. It’s I just I felt like this the whole time. I’m like, let’s like in a trans listening too. You have a beautiful voice too by the way. Do you have a podcast?

Helen Gretchen Jones: I don’t.

Victoria Volk: Oh, really?

Helen Gretchen Jones: I’m not in the flow of that yet. We’ll just have to see how it unfolds.

Victoria Volk: Oh, maybe maybe in the future. Six months to a year, ballpark. Because as many times you said ballpark, and then I was thinking about the dot the world series game, I’m gonna ballpark in my head for probably

Helen Gretchen Jones: That’s so funny. That’s true.

Victoria Volk: There’s a rabbit hole I’m supposed to go down apparently. So thank you so much for being here and and remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life much loved.

Ep 215 Christine Davies | From Sitting With My Sorrow in My Childhood Illness and Multiple Miscarriages To Finding My Calling

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

In today’s episode, Rev. Christine Davies, a hospital chaplaincy leader, shares the path that led her into spiritual care and offers invaluable insights on navigating grief. A deep church involvement from childhood shaped her life path, a calling toward medicine influenced by her nurse mother, and personal health crises that highlighted the importance of compassionate bedside manners.

Christine emphasizes chaplains’ unique role in healthcare—focusing on emotional and spiritual support rather than just logistical aspects like social workers. She underscores the necessity of open conversations about end-of-life issues, informed by her own experiences with pregnancy loss and grief. These discussions are crucial for making advanced care plans that respect patients’ wishes.

Key takeaways from Christine’s insights include:

  1. Personalized Spiritual Support:
    • Individualized guidance is essential during times of grief.
    • Chaplains fill critical gaps in patient care through collaboration with medical teams.
  2. Navigating Grief:
    • Intrapsychic loss involves not only mourning what was lost but also shattered plans.
    • Acknowledging each person’s unique experience is vital for healing.
  3. End-of-Life Conversations:
    • Open dialogue about death prepares families emotionally.
    • Advanced care planning ensures patients’ wishes are respected.
  4. Holistic Healing Practices:
    • Integrative modalities like Reiki can complement traditional counseling to address energetic aspects of grief.
  5. Caregiver Self-Care:
    • Setting boundaries and seeking personal wellness resources is crucial for caregivers’ well-being.
  6. Advocacy for Holistic Healthcare:
    • There’s a need to integrate holistic practices within the healthcare system despite systemic challenges.

Christine’s work highlights how embracing emotional expression and physical activities can aid in grieving processes while advocating for more comprehensive patient-centered care approaches within healthcare settings.

Her story inspires us to live meaningfully, engage openly in conversations about mortality, seek supportive communities during grief journeys, and advocate relentlessly for holistic patient care that honors every aspect of the human experience—emotional, spiritual, and physical.

RESOURCES:

  • SDI.org
  • Do Grief Differently
  • Enneagram
  • Reiki
  • Biofield Tuning
  • Book, The Four Things That Matter Most

CONNECT:

  • Substack
  • Website
  • IG
  • FB
  • LinkedIn

_______

NEED HELP?

  • National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
  • Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor

If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.

CONNECT WITH VICTORIA: 

Embracing Grief and Spirituality in Healthcare

In the latest episode of “Grieving Voices,” we delve into a profound conversation with Reverend Christine Von Davies, a beacon of hope and spiritual guidance at Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital. As an ordained Presbyterian minister, seminary professor, and trained spiritual director, Christine offers invaluable insights into normalizing grief while encouraging individuals to live more fully.

A Journey Into Chaplaincy

Christine’s path to chaplaincy is deeply rooted in her upbringing within the church. Initially drawn towards medicine due to her mother’s influence as a nurse, she discovered her true calling through volunteering as an emergency medical technician. Her passion for providing emotional support was solidified by personal experiences with healthcare providers’ bedside manners and an associate pastor’s comforting presence during health crises. This journey led her toward pastoral care—a vocation that fills essential gaps in patient care by focusing on the emotional and spiritual aspects often overlooked in clinical settings.

The Importance of Advanced Care Planning

One of the crucial roles Christine plays involves facilitating advanced care planning discussions—conversations that are often avoided but necessary for ensuring patients’ end-of-life wishes are respected. Through these dialogues, families can navigate complex decisions together, fostering peace amidst uncertainty.

Christine’s own encounters with loss have deepened her understanding of grief’s multifaceted nature. She introduces us to concepts like intrapsychic loss—the shattering not just from losing someone but also from losing envisioned futures—and emphasizes acknowledging each individual’s unique grieving process without judgment or expectation.

Her work highlights how vital it is for healthcare systems today shift towards patient-centered approaches where empathy reigns supreme over mere logistics management; recognizing people holistically rather than purely clinically enhances both healing journeys & overall well-being significantly!

Addressing Spiritual Crises Amidst Painful Times

Many patients experience spiritual crises when faced with illness or death—a reality exacerbated by well-meaning yet harmful religious platitudes offered too readily sometimes! Herein lies another integral aspect tackled expertly under Rev.Von Davies’ guidance: allowing genuine expressions ranging anywhere between anger/sadness/relief etc., thereby validating authentic emotions instead suppressing them needlessly…

By embracing such authenticity wholeheartedly herself (drawing inspiration even from mystical notions like “dark night soul”), she encourages others similarly find solace transformative potential residing therein… Ultimately though? It all boils down living meaningfully whilst helping those around do likewise navigating respective paths gracefully despite inevitable challenges encountered along way…

Practical Tips For Those Grappling With Loss:

  • Give Yourself Space: Allow yourself ample time process feelings involved seeking community support wherever possible—whether via bereavement groups/spiritual direction sessions/faith-based organizations alike…
  • Don’t Isolate: Engaging supportive networks (both offline online) proves immensely beneficial throughout entire ordeal

Episode Transcription:

Victoria Volk: Hello. Hello. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of grieving voices. Today, my guest is Reverend Christine Vaughan Davies. She runs the hospital chappellancy department at Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital. She is an ordained presbyterian minister, seminary professor and trained spiritual director. Christine shares stories from her chaplency work to normalize grief and help people live more fully in the moment while educating about grief, loss, and advanced care planning. She lives to their family on a small farm in New Jersey, spending her time chasing chickens and show furring her children to their activities. Thank you so much for your time and being my guest today, and And for the work that you’re doing because it’s not easy working in end of life and in the grief space too. And so I have questions around, well, let’s start there. And we kinda spoke briefly before we started recording, but for a lot of helpers, often it’s their own experience that bring them into the professions of helping others. And so what has been your experience that led to you becoming ordained? And doing this work in grief and loss in advanced care planning.

Christine Davies: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me and for creating this space for us to make this a part of everyday conversation. I began as a my journey to become a hospital chaplain and maybe I should have backtracked because not everyone knows what that is, but I work in a hospital and essentially I’m an extra layer of emotional and spiritual support for patients families, as well as the staff that work within the hospital. But how I got into this was I grew up in the church, my family, and I went to the local Presbyterian Church. I really took to it. I was very much in it. And did youth group and bell choir and all of that and was a pretty precocious kid and was convinced from a young age of god’s presence in my life as well as the fact that god wanted me to help the most people possible. Sometimes in religious circles we talk about calling, and that was my sense of calling her vocation. And I thought the best way to do that would be through medicine. My mother was a nurse, so I think she maybe egged that dream on a little bit. And I had actually volunteered and worked for a number of years as an emergency medical technician, so riding in the backs of ambulances with people when they were going through major medical crises. And it was in that work where I recognized as as much as I could do minor repair of wounds and administering oxygen and ensuring safe transport to the hospital, what really spoke to me was being able to hold people’s hands while they were scared. You know, and trying to provide just a little bit of comfort to them when they didn’t know what was going on and they were oftentimes questioning. Right? Why is this happening to me? And so it was through that and then my own experiences of being a patient. I was in and out of hospitals for quite some time, including one that I used to work in later on, trying to figure out what was going on with me medically. And eventually, I was diagnosed with generalized epilepsy. Which I’m fortunate is under control now, but I was having a lot of seizures and also had a lot of frustration at the bedside manner of some of the healthcare providers who were caring for me. And no one seemed to get how this was impacting me from a holistic perspective. And I was around the same time that the church, my family, was attending, had a new associate pastor, who just took me out in between my hospitalizations, took me out for dinner, and talked to me about what it was like and cared for me in that way. And I found more renewal through that conversation than I did in any of the medications.

Victoria Volk: Now don’t get me wrong.

Christine Davies: I still take all my medications. I’m a big fan of medication, but It was recognizing that there’s multiple ways to go about healing, and that was really the first time I encountered past oral care or spiritual care, which is what I now provide to patients and also teach Clarity how to provide.

Victoria Volk: A lot of people might think that, well, are you a licensed social worker? Because often that is kind of left to the social worker in a hospital setting. And so, like, what is your scope of practice in that way versus a social worker?

Christine Davies: So I’m unique in that I was also a licensed social worker who took me a little while to figure out my exact journey. And I also went to social work school and got my MSW. But where I, you know, as a chaplain, chaplains are really looking at you know, more of the spiritual bent. So for instance, when I worked as a cognitive behavioral therapist before this, we would talk about all sorts of things as now as a chaplain and spiritual director. I’m really focused on that, particularly In the hospital, oftentimes, we’ll fill kind of a larger role just because the social workers are having to do a lot more of the logistical work. So things like you know, discharge planning, dealing with insurances, things of that nature. It’s funny I was walking behind a surgeon a couple weeks ago and he was with a resident and he was passing the chapel and I was a few steps behind them. So he didn’t see me and he says, oh, yeah, the chaplains are great here. They’re like the closest thing we have to a therapist. So make sure you call them for all your patients. And so there is an element of that where we are trying to fill the gap for patients in that way, but we also work very closely with social workers. We work closely with the medical team to really provide that interdisciplinary care.

Victoria Volk: What were the lessons that you received growing up about end of life and death and dying and the beliefs that you had and how have those changed or shifted as you found your path in this work.

Christine Davies: Yeah. So I didn’t grow up hearing a lot about end of life. Or death and dying apart from, you know, when we had relatives that I wasn’t particularly close to die. And I think that’s part of what got me into this because why aren’t we talking about this more? This should be something that we’re really looking at even from a young age. Like my kids know much more about death than I ever did at that age growing up. And even though I was in the church, It was something where there was a funeral, it was sad, but then the expectation was, okay, we keep moving. Whereas when I was going through some of my own experiences, particularly around pregnancy loss, I recognized no one is talking about this in the way that I think that they could. And when I’ve been working with bereavement groups, a lot of what I’m hearing from that bereaved individuals is society wants me to move on and there’s no moving on or I’m not ready, you know, I I can’t just I like to say we move through it, we don’t move on from it. So I think trying to dispel some of the myths that are out there about grief has been important to me. And then I do a lot of advanced care planning in my job as a job on at the hospital. So helping people to think about their death, to name a healthcare Oxy for someone in case you can’t provide what you’d want medically for your treatment. If you can’t give voice to it, how do you tell someone else what it is that you’d want in advance of that? But people don’t like to have those conversations be and I’ve been accused by many people, including my own family of being morbid for this reason because we just, you know, push death to the wayside and we don’t like to think about it.

Victoria Volk: What were some of the things that you experienced as a patient and as a child during that time that you could give some parents insight into in how to support their child who might be in the medical system and have that be having that experience that you had? Like, what would be some advice that you would give?

Christine Davies: Yeah. So one of the things that I see and I just talked about this in the hospital where I had been a patient for a number of years was recognizing the individual, not just coming in and saying, you know, especially in a teaching hospital where there’s lots of doctors coming in at any one time and saying, oh, in this bed, we have and reading off the medical record number, or the diagnosis rather than saying, oh, this is Christine. You know, Christine, what’s going on for you today? And just ignoring me completely or talking to and I was a I was a teenager when I was going through a lot of that you know, so I was sometimes there by myself. My parents couldn’t be there all the time, and not engaging me at all. And I think we’re shifting away from that in healthcare majorly to patient centered care and family centered care. Where we are giving voice to the patient’s experience, to the family’s experience. One of the things I tell a lot of patients that I work with and people that I work with in my spiritual direction practice is that you know your body better than anyone. Because part of my experience was, you know, nobody was seeing my seizures. I was just coming out of it postdictal, which is kind of the period after a seizure where you’re not really making sense and I’d be on the floor and I didn’t know why. But nobody had seen them. And so it took a while to figure out what was going on. But I knew this isn’t right. Thankfully, my mother also realized that wasn’t right, but I had a lot of people say, no, no, no, you need a therapist. It’s in your head. You know, it’s a lot of dismissing what was going on for me, which I think is especially true of women as well as people of color, that their pain or their symptoms aren’t taken seriously by our healthcare field. And I work in healthcare and still I see this. And sort of really encouraging people to, you know, know themselves, know their body, and advocate for what they’re needing.

Victoria Volk: You had mentioned seven ectopic pregnancies?

Christine Davies: Oh, I had one ectopic pregnancy and then overall I’ve had about seven miscarriages.

Victoria Volk: How has that shifted your perspective of grief and how have you navigated that?

Christine Davies: Mhmm. Yeah. It was really difficult for me in in each one of them in different ways. I had some before I had my children and then in between pregnancies. I think it shifted by first what I would call intrapsychic loss, which is what I talk a lot about, which is not just the loss of the baby or the pregnancy, but it’s also this idea that this is not how I was planning for my life to go or even for some people, they encounter that when there’s been a major trauma in their life And it’s almost like the piercing of the veil of I didn’t even know that this could happen to me. Now, I did have a a semblance of this could happen to me having worked in healthcare. But really, a lot of it had to be an internal experience. And that’s something that I hold up to other people to recognize, like, you know, plenty of women go through this, you know, to so many, and it’s not talked about nearly enough. It’s talked about more now that when I was going through and I didn’t even know what ectopic pregnancy was and this was before Google was as, you know, prolific as it is now. But really trying to normalize it for individuals and talk about it so that women as well as, you know, their partners don’t have to grieve in isolation around it. A lot of what I do now in the hospital is provide comfort to parents who are going through the same thing, who the technical term is a fetal demise, but someone who has given birth to a baby who may not have taken a breath in this world or may have taken a breath that was their first breath and their last breath in the same day. And it is completely devastating, of course, for the family, but having gone through similar scenarios myself I try to actually do them when the calls come into my office. We do have a staff of people, so others often do them, but if I’m able to just because I know what it is to go through that. And sometimes, people who have not grieved in certain ways can meanwhile, but not realize the impact of their words or their presence. So for instance, when I was going through that period, I had very well meeting friends say things to me like, well, at least you know you can get pregnant or everything. Christine, you should know you’re a minister. Everything happens for a reason. Mhmm. And I get us on a soapbox about some of these religious platitudes. That we kind of throw out there, but we don’t always understand the spiritual harm that they can do. And so, you know, part of my mission and how I have found purpose through my pain is helping others to to not have to endure that. And it can spin people into a whole spiritual cycle of distress. I mean, grief alone can do that, but then when you have other people trying to care from you. But not not being as supportive as they can. So that’s a little bit of how my story has impacted me. It certainly made the work harder. In a lot of ways, I think about times I was with patients before, I had my losses and times after. Much harder now, but I think I’m more effective as a result of it.

Victoria Volk: Yeah, to share, piggyback what you had said, I feel like those platitudes can be spiritually stunning for us. Mhmm. And then it’s like, well, God need another angel, you know, that kind of remark and it’s like, no. They should be here with me. And, well, I guess I need to blame God then because you know, I that’s I had a lot of trauma and grief in my childhood and I blame God for a very long time.

Christine Davies: Yeah. If you’re following that, you know, logic of and I like to call it toxic spirituality. Right? Always putting a positive spin on things. If you’re following that logic to that end point that God did this to you in some sort of cosmic test or whatever, of course, I’m gonna think that God is a real jerk.
And that’s gonna impact my relationship with God. One of the things I see a lot of in the hospital is anger at God. Oftentimes, with good reason, if this is the logic or the theology that people are following, and then a lot of our religious institutions don’t allow a space for that anger. A lot of patients that say to me, like, I’m really angry at God for, you know, doing this, but they are worried that even voicing it aloud is blasphemy. And so they’re like, I can’t talk to my clergy about it, which I think is why we sometimes get it as this anonymous spiritual person within the hospital.

Victoria Volk: Alright? Because you have no skin in their game.

Christine Davies: Mhmm. Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: What is the advice then that you give to people if they find themselves in that situation? And how have you how did you personally navigate those relationships with those people? That would say those types of things.

Christine Davies: Yeah. I think I was fortunate and I had other people that weren’t saying those things to me. And so I just knew, okay, I have to lean on them a little bit more. And then I had people who actually, after the fact, it when they endured their own loss later on, came back to me and said, I realized that I set this in the moments. Mhmm. And it wouldn’t be helpful now. And so that’s why I like to tell people about it. So they don’t have to go through the experience of it to know the implications of it. But what I do encourage people to do is to really lean into their emotions, whatever they happen to be, Whether that’s anger, sometimes it’s relief. I see a lot of families that have relief when a loved one dies and or pregnancies lost or other things and people feel guilty about that. So I think it needs to be all all sad all the time. But lifting that up is a valid emotional experience. And I would say find people who will be supportive of you, whether that are those are grief groups, whether that is working with a therapist or a spiritual director or if you have friends or family that have been through it in similar ways. Sometimes it’s a little too hard if people have been through it for them to be able to be with you, but there’s a fantastic quote that I use a lot to inform my work, which is the cry of the soul can only be heard by one whose soul has already cried.

Victoria Volk: That’s good.

Christine Davies: And I think that speaks a lot to you know, how we can be tender with others when we know that tender place of grief for ourselves.

Victoria Volk: That speaks to what I say in my podcast quite often is that someone can someone can only sit with you in the depths of your grief to the depths that they’ve, like, allowed themselves to feel their own. That’s Mhmm. Way more eloquently beautiful.

Christine Davies: I don’t know who said it, actually. Maybe your listeners can find it out. I have tried to, you know, big I heard it somewhere. I’ve tried, but I’m I’m not the most technologically savvy person, but I’ve not been able to figure it out. But yeah, and that’s a lot of how our educational system in chapel and see actually works is people come in having, you know, gone to seminary and, you know, know all of these weighty theological understandings. But a lot of what we have to do in our training is around the emotional pieces, particularly as it relates to that counter transparency. Empathy. Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: Absolutely. Come naturally to everything.

Christine Davies: Now it’s hard one.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. What has your grief taught you?

Christine Davies: Yeah. So there’s this concept in Christianity, although other spirituality sometimes draw from it as well, called the dark night of the soul, And it is this concept in kind of mysticism where there is great darkness is really referring to. It’s not so much the night, but the obscurity. The not knowing why things are happening. If people believe in God, they may feel abandoned by God or that they can’t feel God’s presence. And it’s really when everything we thought we knew kind of changes. And feels like the rug has been pulled out of us from a spiritual perspective. And the amazing thing about these dark nights of the soul is that often they result in transformation, in a new dawn of a new understanding of ourselves, of our sense of spirituality, or how we connect with universe, or others. And most people said, you know, it was terrible to go through. I don’t want to go through that ever again. And yet, I have a changed meaning perspective as a result. Now that takes a lot of time. Right? You know, just wake up one morning and it’s like, oh, everything’s hunky dory now. But I do believe that a lot of my own grief and loss, a lot of the grief and loss that I’ve sat with for other people, it also helps me to not take things for granted, knowing that this life is not, you know, tomorrow is not promised. There’s lots of, you know, meditations around, you know, engaging our liminality. As a spiritual practice. And, you know, using that as a framework for how do I live into my life, you know, knowing we’re here for just, you know, a speck of time when looking at the entirety. Of the world. So again, some people that wouldn’t be as a positive spin on it, but to me, it really does motivate me in how to live my daily life.

Victoria Volk: And that brings up a question of how you live your daily life. Now, But as you were going through it, you’re having to not only manage your own emotions, but also the emotions of your existing children as you were experiencing child loss yourself, the motions of your spouse? Yes?

Christine Davies: Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: Can you speak to that a little bit? Like her Mhmm. How how it is to hold your own grief, but then also have a family that’s gonna be there, you

Christine Davies: know, too. Well, and to be clear, when a lot of my losses were before I had my first child, and then the other losses came before my first child was even aware, like, he was maybe two or three. So he didn’t really know anything that was going on. But I will speak to it from the perspective of, you know, and I and many people I talked to that go through pregnancy loss have this experience where it is such a painful experience physically And so in addition to emotionally and spiritually, but so I remember, like, you know, lying on the couch and not being able to to do much. You know, with my two year old who wanted to jump all over me because I was in such pain. And, you know, so that’s certainly a piece where I was trying to balance all of it. And then I think with my spouse, I would probably handle it differently today than I did then. You know, for me, I don’t think I saw the impact that it was having on him and his own helplessness. And so that’s, you know, that informs my work today because I am always checking, you know, with the partners, whether it’s husband, whether it’s a wife, whether it’s the the grandparents that are there, Now, sometimes I’ll take them outside of the room and say, you know, how are you doing? Knowing that, you know, a lot of the focus is going to be on the mother with good reason.
But that there’s grief that’s not really talked about there for others. Howard Bauchner: What

Victoria Volk: do you recommend to people who So let’s say, I’m, you know, in the hospital and I have this experience and a terrible experience and I you come to me and I’m a very appreciative of you and your time and your gifts that you’re sharing, and then but then I have to go home. Uh-huh. So how how does that how do you what do you have to say to people who First of all, may not even have the experience that you provide Mhmm. In their local hospital

Christine Davies: Right.

Victoria Volk: But then also moving forward resources tools or what do you recommend or how can people begin healing on their own. Mhmm. And can they on their own?

Christine Davies: Mhmm. I think that’s one of the things that makes grief so difficult for us to have these huge conversations around because everyone’s experience is gonna be different. Right? So my first miscarriage, so much different than my last. At that, you know, on my seventh, I was like, okay, this is old hat. Like, I know I know what we’re doing here. But for some people, all seven are going to be difficult. Or for some people, you know, that might be, you know, I was with a woman the other day, and I said, oh, you have a cancer diagnosis, you know. How are you coping with that? Is it a new cancer diagnosis? She goes, oh, honey. She’s like, I lost I lost my son. I lost my husband. This is nothing. Right? So so much of how we are approaching grief and loss in our life stems from all that we have experienced up until that point. You know, you mentioned childhood trauma and abuse earlier. In some ways, I think that has a huge impact onto how we grieve and to the resilience that we’re bringing into this work. So all that to say it is gonna look a little different for everyone in terms of recommendations that I would give. And a lot of times when I’m dealing with people in the hospital, they are more in kind of crisis mode even if they’re saying goodbye to someone in the ICU, and they know that their loved one was going to die, you know, for a period of weeks. It’s still right when it happens. So many of my families are saying, like, it just feels like a bad dream. You know? And certainly, people that are dying due to a car accident or very sudden, violent death is people can’t even, you know, I have to walk them to the door. Like, they don’t even know where they are because it is so overwhelming in that time.
So The first piece of advice I would give is give yourself space to know that this is going to be difficult. Right? I was talking with someone who said, yeah, I really shouldn’t have gone back to work three days after this happened. Because they just felt like that was the message that they were getting was if they had to move on. I would recommend community in some form or fashion. You know, I mentioned I used to run bereavement groups. One of the benefits of COVID is now there’s so many of these groups meeting online. Many that didn’t go back to in person. I mean, I like in person groups as well, but I think that helps people who, you know, may not have a local group or maybe too hard, you know, to get out to a group in person. And even, you know, people speak ill of social media on lots of different levels, but it there has been such community building around that. I know there’s there’s Facebook groups for everything under the sun and that helps people to have a sense of community and really normalizing. What they’re going through in a powerful way. And for people that are wanting to explore more of the spiritual themes of what’s going on for them, you know, if they have a faith background or religion that they have a community that they can be a part of. Certainly, that would be a place where I would encourage them to reach out or even if they’re thinking about joining one. Most people don’t. I see a lot of people that are more, you know, spiritual, not religious. And that’s where I would say engaging someone who can walk that path with you might be helpful like a spiritual director. So that’s a training that I wound up doing because I missed people stories when they left the hospital. I was there for that crisis, but I wanted to walk with people longer. And so, spiritual directors international or s d I dot org has a whole directory of spiritual directors that you can Some are online only, some are in person. You can filter by any religious denomination or meet with people that are of had not a religious affiliation whatsoever. And that is usually a helpful resource for people because it’s so individualized. As much as I love faith communities and congregations. Sometimes it can be hard to really sit with what is going on for your own particular spiritual self in this moment, especially in the mid of grief or like I talked about before that dark night of the soul. So this can really give you that individualized focus.

Victoria Volk: What does your healing look like? You know, when we say you have to do the work? Mhmm. And the for me, the word was the grief recovery method, which I walk people through in my program do grief differently, which is a twelve week one to one program, and then I also do groups as well. Mhmm. What did it look like for you?

Christine Davies: Oh, what it’s still going on? It’s always We’re always in it. Right.

Speaker 2: And sometimes, you know, I sent to my therapist not so long.

Christine Davies: I was like, I thought I was over this by now. Like, how many years has this been? And I’m like, no. No. No. Like, Our stuff is always our stuff, and it’s always gonna move with us and and shape us. A couple of things that stood out for me. I mean, one was getting to lament to god and and engage in that anger. You know, I remember it was during that time I discovered the there’s a lot of cursing songs in the bible, so those were very helpful to me at that particular juncture. I I engaged some therapists, some that were fantastic, some that were not so good. Same thing with support groups. And so that’s the other piece of advice I give to people, like, you know, reach out to others, and if it’s not a fit, it’s not a fit, just keep reaching out, which can be hard to do when you’re in the throes of grief. But, yes, talking to people who understood it. For me, some of it was also writing about it, and so I do write a lot. I have a newsletter on my website and I’ve written about in detail about some of my pregnancy loss as well as more general stories from the hospital. So for me that was helpful to really articulate it for myself and the blessings of it. It took me a while. I couldn’t write it about it for a while at first, but I went back to it later. And then the other piece of advice that I get people that helped me as well and I’m continuing to see how this unfolds my own life is that there’s a physicality to grief and loss. It does reside. In our body. And, you know, I I love all the research that’s out there now about trauma in the body and just how true I’m finding that. And so for me, it’s about how do I engage with that for myself. So whether it’s you know, through massage or I I know you’re a rate key practitioner. That’s something I picked up a little while ago and loved or, you know, using yoga or just being in my body and healing from that perspective. It can’t just all be, you know, this talk therapy. That has been true in my own life, and I suspect it may be the case for others as well.

Victoria Volk: I’m a certified bio field tuning practitioner, which is using tuning forks. And field extends file.

Christine Davies: No. I’ve not done that yet. Oh.

Speaker 2: We’ll talk after this.

Christine Davies: I

Victoria Volk: actually prefer that to rate you. Actually, I I incorporate elements of both in my Okay. In my practice with clients, but it, you know, our energy field extends five to six feet out and our energy field informs the body and our body informs our energy field. And so it really is what you’re feeling in here is what you are putting out energetically. It really is a reflection of what you’re feeling in here. And so it’s like, when I see people, like, just in church, for example, I can always tell who is got a lot of maybe anxious energy, tense, stress because people will do this. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Was just putting their arms up here shouldn’t change their shoulder dropping, but it’s still just just like this.

Christine Davies: I think that’s all of us in some ways. Like, we’re all whole Yeah. So much. And just not even breathing, you know, fully with our diaphragm. So it’s just Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: You know, bringing attention to that. Right? And why am I why am I feeling in holding this here? And so that’s what I help people work through and what’s beautiful about biofuel tuning is that you don’t have to talk about it. The work happens as I’m working through your energy field, but it’s just been a beautiful thing to be able to add that into my grief work with clients and then also it’s often how people come into grief work because they realize they have a lot of stuff they are holding on to and feeling

Christine Davies: like mhmm. Oh, I think that’s a beautiful practice and such a gift to give people.

Victoria Volk: Is it becoming more common to do you find in the hospital that you’re working in that they are starting to offer more of these other modalities while people maybe are in intensive care or, you know, because you have you can’t just offer someone energy healing without their permission.

Christine Davies: So Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: Not that caveat, but

Christine Davies: I wish. Not that I’ve seen I wish it would impact some hospitals maybe, but I’m always writing alouds for. We need a whole integrated, you know, spirituality department that is, you know, bringing in other things And actually, I wind up getting my my rate key achievements because during COVID, we were using oh, we our oncology floors would use volunteers for to come in and do rate key. But then during COVID, the volunteers couldn’t come in. And one day, I had a nurse on the phone calling our office. Do you know anyone that can do this? Like, one of my one of my patients is desperate for it. Oh, okay. No, I have to go, you know, get that, at least for an emergency basis. I don’t do it ongoing for for patients, but now I think that is something that, you know, again, I work in healthcare.
It pays my bills, but I do think that we sometimes miss out on the opportunities for holistic healing. Again, there are some hospitals out there doing a great job of it. And some of the realities within our healthcare system in the United States anyway is the ways in which it becomes about what a billable practice is and not, and insurance. And even Chaplin’s, we’re not a billable practice. So there’s some hospitals that don’t have chaplains, even though one could argue that they are required to buy different commissions that accredit hospitals, but it’s really up to interpretation. You know, sometimes people are just calling local ministers to come in and do something versus individuals who are trained and have a department for that. So I think we have a long way to go, but my hope is that we will go more in that direction.

Victoria Volk: What did your rate key attunement in your training open up for you in terms of understanding that But, yeah, there might be a little bit of a blurred line between spirituality and energetics of grief and and all of that because, you know, some people might, especially who are in certain, maybe religious affiliations might look at it, like, it’s some sort of voodoo

Christine Davies: Mhmm. Witcher. So, yes. Yeah. And I don’t talk a whole lot about it just because I know that that is the case. And and I am pretty if if your listeners have been told been able to tell thus far, I’m pretty progressive as far as the president ministers go, and that is something that has been such a helpful practice for for myself. And so I don’t I don’t widely offer it to others. But the way that I understand it from that perspective is, you know, this is about and sometimes I’ll do some interpretation. But, like, for me, this is about the holy spirit. Or this is about me getting more in touch with, you know, godsend dwelling inside me is how I I like to envision it. And it’s funny because a lot of what Ricky had helped me to do was to become a better meditator. You know, I try doing meditation for so long, and then Ricky as well as learning more about some of the Christian meditation practices that are out there. And so that helped me. I’m like, even if I get no physical benefits from it whatsoever, I knew I was getting that emotional and spiritual benefit just because I was caring for myself. I was, you know, slowing myself down and being more attuned to god’s presence in my life. But I will say, yes, there are a lot of people out there. I get accused of, you know, witchcraft or pulling in things like the enneagram to my teaching and and I understand. Otheragram too. And other modalities. Because to me, I’m like, why are we not using these tools that are out here? And it’s it’s a better intention. What is our intention in using them? Is it to for me, it’s to become more attuned. To god in my life and and how I’m caring for others. So I don’t know that I answered your question. I got a little bit of a a a a sidetrack with it, but

Victoria Volk: no. It it did. Because that I’d asked how did what did it unlock for you?

Christine Davies: Mhmm. We

Victoria Volk: just helped you more of self acceptance of Absolutely. Mhmm. Yeah. Of my son, he was he’s been pretty skeptical for he was for quite a while about what I do and with the tuning forks and just he didn’t quite understand it. And I said, Jim, you know what, though? I have a prayer.

Christine Davies: I don’t have I

Victoria Volk: do it’s it’s like a prayer Mhmm. For me. I don’t know. Yeah. They have a different way they do it, but I said, I have a specific prayer, you know, because he his concern was, well, who knows what you’re inviting in? Mhmm. Oh, I know what I’m inviting in because I’m bringing that intention and I’m calling it out. I’m calling it in, you know, with my intention and with my prayer. And so I had to make that clarification. And then he was like, oh, okay. That makes sense.

Christine Davies: Mhmm. Yeah. I use that prayer as well. And one of the one of my teachers for Ricky actually learned years ago from a Catholic nun in a church because that used to be I know I was shocked when she told me that because it used to be, I think a little bit more acceptance in in certain circles.

Victoria Volk: Yeah, I would say. And I think it is becoming more I think as we’re moving towards more holistic, it’s becoming more common and more understanding about it, really. You know, people more curiosity. You know Mhmm. People following their curiosity and just learning being open. That’s what I would just encourage people to do is don’t poo poo it or naysayer just because you have a lack of understanding about it or maybe question your understanding. Is this? Mhmm. Correct, you know, because we can have these beliefs that were passed down to us as children. That’s maybe not true, you know.

Christine Davies: Right. And it’s another area, and this is a lot of what I work with with my spiritual directives. There’s all sorts of spiritual practices out there. You know, for some people, journaling is something that really helps to connect with, you know, God for them. For others, it may be meditating. Right? Maybe walking in nature. You know, everyone has different ways that they’re approaching this. And, you know, sometimes I like to say, like, we almost need a smorgasbord. I mean, like, okay. What works for one person may not work for another one? Or for seasons in life as well. There may be a season where something, you know, that works for you for so long is no longer, you know, helping you in that way. And so being, as you said, being open to other practices or or trying things on and seeing if they can help you connect with yourself, with others into the divine.

Victoria Volk: One of the questions I ask is on my form and is what gives you hope for the future? And doing the work that you do and your personal experience, what does give you hope for the future? Oh, I would love to know what I said

Christine Davies: a while ago. But today, we did. No. No. No. No. You can tell me later. We’ll see if it matches up. But what gives me hope today for the future is really, you know, and and and part of what keeps me in the work that I do is seeing people’s resilience. In the face of deep suffering, you know, seeing people continue to move move through life. And sometimes with that changed meaning perspective that I talked about before, and just the depth of caring that people can then do for others. That’s a lot of what gives me hope. It’s close.

Speaker 2: Look, I can’t remember what I had for practice up. Yeah. I don’t know how you can answer a question

Christine Davies: a little while ago, but Mhmm. How

Victoria Volk: is your past experiences and and just in the in the work that you do? What you see? How is it maybe changed how you how is it influenced? How you parent? And maybe what you give more attention to in your parenting? And how you maybe talk about deaf and dying and you know, I’m I imagine that you’re open and transparent. Like, you talk about death and dying in your house maybe regularly or maybe not. I don’t know. Like, how has that informed? You’re working informed, how your parents, and all of that?

Christine Davies: Yeah. I would say, even from, like, an emotional containment part, trying to emphasize, you know, what are you feeling and that feelings are are valid. And I think that’s different than the way a lot of us grew up. You know, being told, oh, you know, I’m allowed to cry or, you know, just a a different generation. Like, my kids learn about feelings in the health class now. I’m like, oh, that’s fantastic and minor in elementary school. And so even learning to say, and I have two ways, so even learning to say, you know, it’s okay to be angry. It’s not okay to slam the door or it’s not okay to, you know, throw things all over the house when you’re angry. But what are some practices we can do? When you’re angry.
The other day I was teaching my eight year old how to do some angry yoga moves to to help him kind of settle back into himself when he was feeling out of sorts because he was mad, probably something that his brother did. So, trying to really help them to self soothe and to nurture that for themselves. And, yes, we do talk about death. I also live on a farm, so that helps because we had a lot of chickens that have been, you know, attacked by box and hawks and and things like that. And, you know, from an early age, my kids understood.
You know, this is just a part of life. This is part of the life cycle. I do remember when my older son first found out about death, I think probably due to one of our jigs dying early beyond. You know, I was explaining this happens for, you know, for everyone. And he says, you mean, you’re gonna die one day. And I said, you know, yes. I am. I hope it’s not gonna be for a while, but I am gonna die. And if it when I do, like, you’re gonna have other people around. And then he’s and then and he’s like he seemed okay with that. And then he said, wait, do you mean, I’m gonna die one day? And I said, yes. And that’s when, you know, he, you know, went into this, you know, really a new understanding and that where, like, the crying began, not when something was gonna happen to me, but recognizing his own mortality. Mhmm. And those are hard moments to endure, and I do this professionally. So I can understand my parents don’t wanna talk about it ever. Then I think we’re not preparing our kids enough to have this as part of a reality. You know, I’ve worked with people and clergy who have a lot of denial. About death even though that’s their profession. And to me, that just makes the grieving even harder when it does come because not not just are you grieving that person, but you’re grieving the fact that you never thought this would happen. Versus being open and talking about it more, I do think helps prepare us a little bit more for when it does happen.

Victoria Volk: We bring up a good point and that I can’t even tell you. I couldn’t even tell you what experience or pinpoint a time when my kids learned of their own mortality. I could not even tell you because I wasn’t doing this work then, you know, but I wouldn’t I wouldn’t even know. I wouldn’t even know when that is and that makes me sad because, you know, that’s an opportunity that’s a teachable moment, that is an opportunity. And so that’s a very good point in how how it can really shift a perspective for a child when you are have that awareness of what they’re saying and really and what they’re feeling and then how to talk through it. But if that child is having that experience and they’re not vocalizing it or asking And it’s all an inner process. You have no idea. Like Mhmm. And they come up with their own beliefs about

Christine Davies: Right. They feel like that. Wow. Absolutely. Yeah. And and and look, especially for your listeners, it is so hard. We’re all doing the best that we can. In in the present moment. And and as I said, it’s hard for me and I do this work. Right? And so there’s times where and my kids will say, like, mom, when I die, are you gonna cry?

Speaker 2: Or and what what are they gonna say

Christine Davies: in my funeral? Like, they will sometimes I

Speaker 2: really don’t wanna be having this conversation, especially as we’re driving to soccer practice,

Christine Davies: you know. And I’ve had a rough day. But to me, the importance is that we, you know, we are talking about it, and they and to them, they’re asking things that are going to be deeply emotional for me to answer, but they don’t have the same emotions attached to it. To them, it’s just like a matter of fact and how they’re thinking through things, which is, you know, developmentally appropriate. And so it is giving them space. The other recommendation that I usually give to people when they’re asking, how do you talk to kids about this? Is is to answer their questions, see what questions they have because sometimes the questions that they have are not the things that we would think, you know, to answer. So for instance, a friend of mine had their mother died and their dot and their daughter asked, they said, well, you know, what’s gonna happen to and she thought she was gonna say, like, the body or something like that. It was like this one tea cup that was in, you know, the grandmother’s China cabinet that she wanted. Like, that was it was so specific, you know, and things that people don’t even think that their kids are focused on, but that’s what they’re focused on. And so, yeah, to answer their questions. And then also, don’t give them more information than they need sometimes. And you know your children best or your grandchildren or, you know, the children in your life wherever your listeners find themselves. And so some kids are going to be able to handle things that others aren’t. I get asked a lot in the hospital, should I bring, you know, my child in to, you know, say goodbye to their loved one who’s in the ICU. Again, it’s gonna different for every kid based on developmentally what you think that they could handle. My kids tend to be a little bit immature in some ways, and so I might not do that for them in some ways, but others, you know, that may be completely appropriate And then to avoid using euphemisms, I think, is also really important because, you know, people tell me that they remember hearing when they’re a kid that you go to sleep and you don’t wake up. And then they’re afraid to go to sleep because they think that’s going to happen to them. And so really trying to say death, not lost, like we didn’t, you know, we lost something like we lost a mitten. It’s not the same thing. And so trying to be both clear, but also appropriate to their age level.

Victoria Volk: But also, I think it’s important to not make an assumption that you know their understanding, their level of understanding.

Christine Davies: Right. Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: That could be very easy to Yep.

Christine Davies: Yeah. That’s why it’s good to ask them first. You know, what do you you know, do you think about this? And and they may surprise you with their answers and and how profoundly they can be? You

Victoria Volk: know, it’s like when my dad died, I even heard people say, I I hear it. It’s like clear as day, someone said, well, she’s too little. She doesn’t understand what’s going on anyway, and it’s like, I’m eight years old. If you can’t hear her eight years old, you can’t Uh-huh. Wouldn’t have known if your dad died. Mhmm. You know what I mean? So, like, just the nigh don’t be naive as an adult to think that just because you have all this life behind you that this child does not understand simply even what death is, you know.

Christine Davies: Yeah. And I think that’s what makes it doubly hard for parents because we’re holding our own grief Yes. About the death. And then trying to comfort our children in it as well. So it is an impossible task.

Victoria Volk: And that’s why I asked like Mhmm. How what that was for you and what that looked like because I think that is something but a lot of people don’t talk about either. Mhmm. Holding holding it in Nasdaq’s, generally, that does the emotional stuff does fall on us, you know, so we’re Mhmm. Carrying our stuff and then we’re caring everybody’s stuff.

Christine Davies: Right. Yeah. In just a in a day to day, even when there’s not a crisis or not a, you know, a fresh loss going on, you know, encouraging, you know, people to care for themselves is especially when they’re in a caregiving role either professionally and or personally in their lives because many of us that goes to the wayside and really trying to, you know, emphasize how much that’s needed.

Victoria Volk: So how do you decompress and care for yourself, you know, at the end of the day, and just in the work that you’re doing, and being a mom, and spouse, and, like, what does that look like for you? And overall, just to help her.

Christine Davies: Mhmm. Well, I’ll say I keep a number of people on my payroll, so that is very helpful to me. From my own therapist, my own spiritual director, my own massage therapist, all of my, you know, doctors as well. And I am people in my office are funny because they’re like, oh, you always do all of your medical appointments. I said, absolutely, I do. Like, I am there all the time because I wanna make sure I am taking care of my health. To me, that is important because of so much of what I see. But then I have people that I can turn to who know this work. And so a lot of chaplains will have or chaplains educators will have kind of a peer group that they meet with, both for consultation about difficult cases and scenarios, but then also for that support. So I have that for for chaplains. I have another one for other spiritual directors, and those have been a lifeline for me. And then I have friends who don’t do anything related to the whatsoever. And we could talk about, you know, various other things. So I think having that balance. For me, one of the things that’s important is spending time in nature. So, you know, I live on this thirty four acre, hobby farm, and there’s always something to be done. It’s mostly weeding or, you know, you know, repairing fences and things of this nature. But I find something when I’m just doing it with my hands and complete completely takes me out of my element. And I have to drive a way to a ways to get to where I live. I live a little further out from the hospital. But I actually really appreciate that time because that’s kind of my buffer. So sometimes I’m listening to a podcast like this, sometimes I’m listening to books, sometimes music, and sometimes nothing, sometimes I’m just quiet. In those moments depending on the day that I’m about to have or the day that I’ve had that helps me to transition. And then the other piece of advice that I have for others that I’ve tried to do for my own life is to be fully off you know, to go off duty so to speak. Sometimes I’ll even say that to my kids. I’ll say mom’s off duty ask dad, you know, he’s in charge for a little while. I need a little bit of time. But especially people who are working as caregivers, there can be this or just have an inclination of a caregiving mentality. You know, there can be these times where it seeps into other aspects of our life. You know, we’re at the grocery store and all of a sudden, like, helping someone there, you know, out to groceries and hearing their life story, you know, if you’re the type of person where people share things all the time, you know, like you’re at church and you you can sense people’s energies and what do you do with that? And so really trying to be purposeful about like, okay, I am not on duty here. I am not on payroll, trusting that someone else will, you know, come along and help that individual. And and sometimes I will be the one to step forward and and help, but recognizing I only have a limited amount of energy sometimes my family doesn’t get the fullness of my energy because I, you know, let it go so much at at work. So really trying to create boundaries around that for myself and keep my own my own well filled.

Victoria Volk: Well, thank you for sharing all of that because it sounds like that was a great advice for how to fill your own cup, especially as a helper, is, yeah, go off duty.

Christine Davies: Much easier said than done.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. That’s very true. Is there is there anything that you would like to share that you feel like you didn’t get a chance to? And I feel like I could we didn’t even really get into the end of life stuff. Okay. Let me just ask this. What would be the what would you like people to take away from your work and what you’ve seen about end of life. Mhmm.

Christine Davies: I think the acknowledging of the reality of it to me is is one of the major takeaways. And my guess is your audience doesn’t need to be reminded because they know this already. But, you know, just knowing, as I said before, we’re not promised tomorrow, and so living today in a way that is going to honor really the the precious gravity of our time and what you would want to say to those, you know, that you love or how you would like to act knowing that they may not always be there and you won’t always be here and letting that be a guiding force.

Victoria Volk: What I’ve learned in my training and through this work and conversations is that I think we lose a lot of time giving energy to the denial of what is happening Mhmm. In reality, what is happening because and even as a caregiver too, you can get just sucked into, you know, especially if you’re in charge of the bills and the estate stuff, and you’re you’re the one that’s appointed to be responsible for all of that. It really doesn’t give you an opportunity to process really with that.

Christine Davies: Oh my goodness. The the burden of all the logistical nature. I’m brief. Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. And then you don’t really it doesn’t really hit you until after it’s all said and done. And then here, you look back and it’s like all this time that you didn’t use to have those conversations and say what you need to say and, you know, just honor the loved one that you are caring for. Right? Because it’s all every conversation surround often surrounds the logistics of things rather than Mhmm. You know, what are you what are you things that, you know, you wish you would have done in your lifetime? Like, those really thoughtful questions that would give the person who is dying an opportunity to really share what has mattered to them in the meantime.

Christine Davies: Howard Bauchner: Yeah, in Chaplinci, we have an intervention that’s called life review. And I often get to engage that with other people who know, you know, that their their death is more imminent. Getting to say, you know, what what are your major choice? What what do you regret? You know, what do you wish had had been different? And sometimes when the family is present, they’re getting to hear that as well, or sometimes if the patient is unconscious and we’re, you know, maybe in the ICU, that is where an encouraging family. Again, if they want, there’s no right or wrong way to do it. To say goodbye to their loved one and they say, oh, they might not be able to hear me. So we don’t know. And, you know, surrounding their bed and talking about what they’ve meant to them. I always go back to, do you know doctor Ira Biak? He’s a palliative care physician. He wrote a book called the fourth, who’s written lots of books, but one of them is called the fourth things that matter most. And he talks about the conversations that the dying need to have. With their loved ones, but I think it’s also vice versa. And I think these conversations are the four phrases rather to say are things that we could say every day. And we often we don’t. And they’re in a certain order. I’ll say them because they’re brief. They are Please forgive me. I forgive you. Thank you, and I love you. And there’s all sorts of ways we can say those phrases. But certainly wanting to encourage people to save them at end of life, but then looking at my life and saying, okay, where can I be saying this more fully today in my own life?

Victoria Volk: Sounds like

Christine Davies: You know what I’m talking about? Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. I’m sorry. Please forgive me. And you I’m sorry. Please forgive me.
There’s yeah. There’s a few more in there.

Christine Davies: Yep.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. Pono. Pono. Pono. Really long word.
Yeah. That’s beautiful. I’m glad we got that in there because I think it’s an important aspect of what the work that you do. And also, for me, as an end of life too, I feel like I don’t talk about that piece as much as I talk about the you know, the grief that people are left with after the fact. Right. You know, my dad had cancer and he was sick for I think they gave him I I think it was like four months or something. He lived sixteen months Stage four, and he died in a nursing home. And I don’t know that that’s how he would have chosen

Christine Davies: to

Victoria Volk: spend his end of days. I think that’s really what’s fueled my desire for end of life education. And Mhmm. Because I didn’t even realize that, you know, what was possible at end of life. Like, you can choose who you want to see you and who you don’t, and you can choose how you want your environment to be. And I think I would have, like, essential essential oils going and candles and, you know, my favorite music and Mhmm. Yeah. Just you can set the mood. I was like, yeah. Yeah. That’s possible. Like, you can make it what you want it to be. I just didn’t know that that was possible. And so, yeah, it’s kinda hard in a hospital, but You know what? I’m sure accommodations can be made.

Christine Davies: Yeah. Maybe not the candles, but we have battery operated candles.

Victoria Volk: Now guys, yikes, the green ones

Christine Davies: now. Exactly. I have I have one over here. And yeah. And I think families are becoming more tuned to this, you know, what is going to help us honor our loved one.
But yet, when there’s times that we can speak to that beforehand, when everyone is hale and healthy, before there’s a crisis, that I think is the most important piece.

Victoria Volk: And you can even wash your loved one.

Christine Davies: Mhmm. You

Victoria Volk: know, and some people might no way. I want no part of it.

Christine Davies: And in some religions, that’s, you know, that’s part of the the practice. Absolutely.

Victoria Volk: Mhmm. I think it’s like Western society. We’ve so we’ve gotten so far detached and removed from the dying process. We put it in somebody else’s hands.

Christine Davies: It’s technologicalized it. Absolutely. Mhmm. Mhmm. Versus when it used to be in the home.

Victoria Volk: Yes. I mean, they would take pictures as a family with the disease. Mhmm. Like, family portraits. Yeah. Wear black for, you know, for morning. And, yeah, I think we’ve we’ve just we’ve yeah, far removed ourselves from that experience. And I think and that stents are healing too, I think.

Christine Davies: Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. I I think it it can be a beautiful process when the family is there. And, you know, I’ve watched as, you know, a spousal crawling to bed, you know, with the patient, you know, in in their last few moments, or, you know, I’ve been there when they’ve had, you know, Leonard Skintered Place. Yeah. That was the, you know, that would be my choice, but, you know, really trying to even though we’re in a medical eye setting and, you know, people that are home hospitals, that’s going to look a lot different, but we try to make it, you know, as peaceful of a place that represents that person as possible.

Victoria Volk: Well, where can people find you if they’d like to read some of your writings and learn connect with you online? Where can people find you?

Christine Davies: Sure. So I do write a newsletter about twice a month long form newsletter on Substack, and that’s journeying alongside. They can also find me on my website, which is my name, christine, then v davies, d a v I e s dot com. And on there, there’s a link to my newsletter, all my social media, as well as more information if people wanted to do an individual spiritual direction session. Amazing.

Victoria Volk: I will put links to all of that in the show notes. And Thank you so much for sharing your personal story today and also the work that you do, which is so needed. And I appreciate appreciate you and your time today.

Christine Davies: Well, thank you so much for having me. My luck talking with you today.

Victoria Volk: And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life, much love.

Ep 192 David Chotka | A Walk in Faith: Synchronicities or Divine Appointments?

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY: 

  • On this episode of Grieving Voices, I welcomed David Chotka, founder and director of Spirit Equip Ministries. With four degrees and extensive experience as a pastor and conference speaker, David shares insights from his journey through grief personally and within his community.David discusses the challenges pastors face daily in dealing with grief within their congregations. He recounts his first funeral service—a daunting task for someone who had not yet experienced personal loss—and how that “baptism by fire” shaped his understanding of mourning.Our conversation turns to David opening up about a pivotal moment when he lost his brother to suicide. This tragedy occurred just as he was adopting a daughter, adding complex layers to an already emotional time. Despite having to maintain composure for important church services amidst this personal crisis, David candidly describes how the event left him grappling with questions about faith, forgiveness, life after death, and God’s mercy.

    In a powerful account of healing in nature two years after his loss, David shares an epiphany that brought peace back into his soul regarding eternal destiny while walking through the Heartlake Conservation Area and reading Psalms 130.

    The conversation also touches on navigating sudden losses like suicides within families—emphasizing compassion over judgment—and offers comfort to those wondering about loved ones’ fates after such actions.

    Finally, David speaks on divine appointments—the idea that God orchestrates encounters where we can give or receive something significant—and gives listeners insight into finding meaning in seemingly random moments.

    This heartfelt discussion provides solace for anyone grieving, highlighting the importance of spiritual guidance during one’s darkest hours.

    RESOURCES:

    CONNECT:

    _______

    NEED HELP?

    • National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
    • Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor

    If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.

    CONNECT WITH VICTORIA: 

Finding Peace and Understanding in the Midst of Grief: The Journey of David Chaka

Grief can be a bewildering labyrinth, often leaving us grappling with profound questions about faith, life’s purpose, and our own resilience. In this heartfelt episode of *Grieving Voices*, we were graced by the presence of David Chaka—a man whose personal journey through loss and his role as a spiritual guide offers both solace and insight into navigating the murky waters of sorrow.

David is not just any guest; he brings with him an extensive background as the founder of Spirit Equip Ministries, an authorship that spans five books on spirituality, decades spent pastoring souls seeking comfort, and a voice that has echoed internationally across podiums dedicated to faith. His tenure as chair for the Christian Missionary Alliance’s prayer team in Canada has shaped countless lives—including his own.

Personal Encounters with Grief

When grief knocks on one’s door personally, it carries a different weight. For David Chaka, losing his brother to suicide was such an encounter—one that shook his beliefs to their core yet also led him down a path where he found deeper roots within his faith. He shares how these moments have been pivotal in understanding salvation—not as a checklist but as an intimate relationship with God—a concept offering great comfort to those mourning loved ones lost under tragic circumstances.

Unplanned Moments Leading To Life-Changing Outcomes

In what could have been seen merely as logistical frustration—the no-show moving van—David found friendship and vulnerability while stranded in Elizabeth’s empty apartment. This unexpected delay blossomed into marriage—a reminder that sometimes life’s detours are divine appointments in disguise.

His education under Dr. Gordon Fee further exemplifies this theme—unexpected influences shaping one’s spiritual perspective profoundly. And when called upon to pray for healing against all odds for a fellow student facing deathly illness? The result was nothing short of miraculous—an affirmation reinforcing David’s belief in being open to divine guidance despite personal doubts or hesitations.

Faith Amidst Everyday Life

The stories shared by David resonate deeply because they mirror everyday experiences where faith intersects ordinary moments—like Peter, James John catching fish beyond their wildest dreams at Jesus’ bidding or like ‘Bible-thumper Bob’, whose cancer recovery showed glimpses of heaven before its eventual return grounded us back to earthly realities.

These narratives aren’t just tales; they’re testaments reminding us about responsiveness towards God’s call—even when it seems illogical—and maintaining hope amidst uncertainties inherent in human existence.

Healing Pathways & The Presence Of God

In discussing pathways outlined alongside Maxie Dunham regarding healing prayers—from instantaneous miracles to enduring suffering—it becomes evident that encountering God isn’t limited by specific outcomes but rather defined by walking alongside Him through various journeys toward healing or closure.

David emphasizes experiencing God not only through words but also through non-verbal communication—the peace and joy brought forth even during tribulations signifying His ever-present Holy Spirit guiding our steps towards righteousness irrespective of surrounding chaos.

Extending Love In A Troubled World

As listeners absorb these powerful insights from *Grieving Voices*, it reinforces the notion that living out our calling involves extending love amidst imperfections—not allowing negative church experiences or disillusionment obstruct access to what lies beyond hurt: unconditional love from our Creator capable transforming pain into purposeful engagement within His kingdom here on earth.

For those inspired by this conversation who yearn for more depth within their spiritual walk—you’re invited over at spiritequip.com where you’ll find resources bridging denominational divides while nurturing your inner self for an enriched communion with divinity.

We leave you pondering 1 John 3:2—the promise transformation upon truly seeing God—as we await future content including audiobook chapters promising continued nourishment for your soul-searching quests.

Indeed embracing oneself leads towards fulfillment—but let us remember it is often intertwined intricately with embracing faith even when faced with life’s inevitable grieving voices.

Episode Transcription:

Victoria Volk: Thank you for tuning in to this episode of grieving voices. Today, my guest is David Chotka. He is the founder and director of Spirit Equip ministries, an organization devoted to developing training resources. Author of five books, a season pastor, and a conference speaker David has four earned degrees and travel has traveled and taught in countries to groups large and small. He has served as chair of alliance pray, the prayer equipping team of Christian missionary alliance in Canada for more than twenty years and is now committed to serving those who want to develop Their spiritual disciplines one small step at a time. David is married to Elizabeth and together they have two adult children and for fun he plays the piano. Thank you so much for being here.

David Chotka: Thank you, Victoria, for having me on your podcast. I it’s a delight to be here. And

Victoria Volk: I think you are the first pastor I’ve had on the podcast. I’m pretty sure.

David Chotka: Wow. On a topic like grieving, that’s really quite amazing.

Victoria Volk: I think so.

David Chotka: Well, because

Victoria Volk: meetings Two hundred episodes in.

David Chotka: So Wow. But listen, pastor, every day of the week, somebody’s grieving in their churches. Yeah. And they’re coming alongside people, you know, somebody’s died young, somebody’s died old, somebody’s died in between, and that grieving’s reality, left right and center for people like me.

Victoria Volk: I could be wrong. I’m approaching two hundred episodes, so that’s quite a few to go to remember up here and my memory isn’t as sharp as it used to be either. So just going off my memory, I think so. And I think, you know, initially, this podcast did start for grievers who are open to sharing their grief stories.

David Chotka: Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: And, of course, as a pastor and a minister, you have grief too.

David Chotka: I do. Yes.

Victoria Volk: And that’s really what is that what led you into the work that you were doing? Or What can

David Chotka: I What what led me into the work I’m doing was that’s there’s a remarkable call story that that didn’t actually I should tell you about my first experience of doing a funeral because I had had no losses? So my when I it was the call to the ministry was because I suddenly realized that that was what the Lord wanted me to do. And there’s a long and convoluted story attached to that that and some of that some of those details are just being written now into a little sample that I’m creating called the call. I wanted to put that out. But actually, I haven’t told this story in a podcast. So let me tell you about the first time I wind up doing a funeral. So the denomination I was in, you’re in the states, you’re American. Right? Okay. So it will be like being a night methods down the state. So I was and the in the trajectory there, we were sent to to churches that would have us over the summertime. We we go to school for eight months that we’d be under the tutelage of a pastor locally over the summer season. He’d take a little vacation. We’d spell him off. That kind of thing. But most of his time would be spent teaching in mentoring us. And so I got to my very first ever summer field. And the the pastor there had decided to take his vacation, and there was a methodist lay preacher from England in his congregation. And he said, look, if you’re in trouble, you can call up Ray over there. He’s he’s e stepping in for me all the time when there’s trouble. And so he said, but just in case, you need to walk down the street and there’s a lady there named Joyce. We haven’t had a funeral in this town. It’s a young town. We haven’t had a funeral list down in four years, but Joyce was the one who always does all the arrangements. And if something should happen, if there’s a car accident or something like this, You can always just call up Joyce and she’ll make sure everything’s good. So I went down the street, and I visited Joyce. And her and her husband were very cordial and very kind and nice to me. And we had a wonderful evening visit. And then then I I went to meet Ray, and I had a great chat with Ray. Ray took a one week vacation and enduring the one week vacation when the other passenger was on vacation, Joyce died. So I had to I had never had a loss. So my very first ever experience of doing a funeral was the lady who took care of doing funerals when both the pastor and the late preacher were weighed. So I wound up talking to one of the elders and there’s a lady in that church who was a leader in the congregation. And she worked like crazy to try and figure out what to do. And, you know, they call different pastors from all across the region. And in the end, you know, we figured this thing out and got it done. But, I mean, it was really hard for me because I’d never personally, at that point in the game, I’d never had to face death. It wasn’t until years later that I had a personal loss. But So it was a bit of a comedy of errors to get started like that. But that actually, there were four funerals in two weeks. Four funerals in two weeks. And they hadn’t had a funeral in that church in four years. And when the lead guy was away, the student minister got four funerals. So It was a crazy kind of a thing. Anyway, the day when the day was all said and done, I learned a lot from people who were on the other side of grieving, and that was, of course, my first experience. Of burying someone. I’d never done that before. And you can see the change in expression that there was a moment. And all four of those, and these are my no. Within two weeks, I watched this. Every time the body was lowered into the ground, that was the moment. Where the loss became real, just absolutely crystal clear clear real. And that for me was the moment when I realized that if you’re gonna extend care, that’s the time. You come along and you stand with somebody who’s in trouble when that when that casket goes down and they’re still there and they start to cry. Sometimes they want you there, sometimes they don’t want you there, sometimes you you touch their elbow gently. Sometimes you just hold off and wait until they want to say something. I agree. The way I describe it, you can is this an audio visual one or just visual is this just audio?

Victoria Volk: It’s both.

David Chotka: It’s both. Okay. So I’ll I’ll describe it for the audio people. It’s like you put your hand on their their waist and pull them close while you put your hand on their face and push them away. There’s this They don’t know if they want company or if they want to be alone. And sometimes in two seconds, their view changes. Right? Because grief is a weird animal life. I described it as a strange animal. Never know when it’s gonna purr where it’s gonna bite you. You’re just not sure. So that was that was my very first ever experience of dealing with death and my own my own personal loss came when my brother took his life. He was I I just adopted my daughter. We discovered that we could not my wife would be in danger if we had a second child. We had one born biologically.
And then it just became clear that it almost killed her. Just about killed him too, that both of them just about died. So I guess you could call that grief too because I realized we could not have another. And there was a long journey toward adopting that to happen in the middle of that. And, you know, and we actually vastly I’d be ready to adopt a she wouldn’t. And my wife would be ready to adopt and I wouldn’t. And it was this kind of up and down kinda crazy thing where we were navigating our own emotions, not quite sure what to do with this. And then in the course of time, We adopted her daughter. But just as we adopted her, my younger brother, who had been unsettled all of his days, we we were told in the adoption, what you have to do is you have to, you know, you know, how to say this. You close the doors to everybody except your nuclear family so that you can bond to the child for a good month, a month and a half. We adopted her when she was a year old and she had to rebound to us. And so we had there’s a whole bunch of adoption strategies that you do in order for that child not to feel abandoned by the foster family that they had, etcetera, etcetera. And we had to do that. And so we didn’t see anybody for a month. And then then the social worker told us that the best course of action after that is to introduce your new family member to your immediate family and my parents and my brother lived about an hour and a half away. So we got in the car, we drove down. And we had a beautiful magical, wonderful, glorious day with my brother who had been pretty troubled about lots of things. It was it looked like the the the page had turned and so on. And I was in a new church. I had been the pastor of that church from September right through to that time, which was March. It was the day before a good Friday. I don’t remember the number of day. I just remember the emotion of the event when my dad called and said that my brother had killed himself. Inside my parents home. Mhmm. And I had to get in the car and cancel my Thursday night service. It was gonna be my very first one in that congregation. I had to help my dad grieve while his dead body was in the house, and then they called the police. I had to call the police to make this thing happen. And I watched them take the body out of the home. And that oh, man. Then I had to do good Friday, then I had to do a resurrection Sunday because I didn’t have a capable associate to be able to handle those services, and then I hit the wall and just began to cry in. No pastor wanted to be a guest on Good Friday or you’re sending because they were all busy. Right? These are they’re all that’s the highlight of the church here. And I had to moner on through this kind of awful shock and did. I did what I had to do and thank the Lord. I had already prepared my messages and I simply had to work through whatever whatever was happened. I did tell my church, I just had been through this traumatic thing. If I get crazy here, if I do something odd, forgive me. I’m gonna molt I’m gonna get through these these two services. And then I’m gonna find somebody to take that service a week after, and I just need to stop. And to old man was it hard. It was just hard. But the the hard thing about that one was the suddenness. He was thirty nine. And he he played you know, I got a little son at that point, and he was picking up my son and wrestling with him and putting him in a tree and climbing a tree and walking along the fence tops. And We went to a baseball diamond and threw a ball back and forth with him while we were wheeling our new daughter up and down the the sidewalk as she was getting used to this beautiful spring day. It was a gorgeous lovely memory. Suddenly destroyed by this experience of somebody taking his life. And oh, and and then I and of course, in in the context that I’m in, I had no choice except to speak well and highly about, you know, about the the the the violation of Jesus on the cross and then the joy of the resurrection. While I’m in this anguish about what to do with my brother who’s who’s left a son behind and a wife and and he’s dead. And my parents who don’t know what to do. So that was my first significant loss. That was the first one that we I mean, I had friends who died and I had buddies who died and I had lots of parishioners who passed away and I had to bury a little two year old who died in a wounds tumor.
That was the first one that really hit my heart, but in terms of my personal life, that one. And, you know, it was like, I I I just and listen, I the last two funerals that I have done, and I’m a pastor and you do them every now and then, And the last two in a row were were her suicides. One of a guy, twenty nine years old, left his beautiful wife and son. And the the kid was, like, six months old. And the other was of this family that I knew from years ago, I was visiting Vancouver. And this funeral was gonna happen, and the widow asked if I do it because I had been significant in their lives back in the day. And both of them were, you know, it’s irrational when this kind of thing happens. It doesn’t make any kind of sense. So how do you navigate that? How do you how do you I’ll just tell you that with the with the suicide personally, it was like the sky was gray for the next two years.
Even if it was a beautiful warm, sunny, gorgeous day. And my home was about two blocks from a conservation area, it was kinda nice to be there. And I I started to do what I, you know, long walks and I started and I I don’t know what you do with with grief. For me, I have to speak. I can’t just sort of sit there and stuff it. I can stuff it for a week and then I explode with speech. That’s what happens to me. So I would go for these long walks and make sure that nobody was around that that I’d talk out loud while I was doing this walk in this conservation area. And for me, faith is is part of the answer, but it didn’t answer all my questions because, you know, I I said Is he gonna have it? Is he gonna have it? He took his life. That’ll shout not kill. Is that real? And what about it? Did he throw it away? Did, you know, did this is this is the stuff that goes through the brain with somebody who’s had a sudden loss like that. And, of course, if you’ve done two hundred podcasts, you know, people from all different stages and stages, whether they have faith or don’t have faith. They they wanna know what’s the destiny of the lost here. Is is there an afterlife? Is is it exists or is it just illusion? Is it real? Well, what about? Is there a god? What is this guy in the presence of that god? Or is there a devil?
You know? Why did this crazy guy do this crazy thing. And all those crazy thoughts, I’m sure you’ve heard them in two hundred podcasts. But I remember the moment, I was walking through the Heart Lake Conservation area, two blocks from my home. And I was reading the psalms, and I got to Psalm, I think it’s one hundred and thirty, and the the text of the psalm was this. Lord, if you should count sins, no one could stand. I thought to myself, absolutely right. You know, as I’m I’m walking and refreshed and and I’m trying to get two things. I’m trying to get my head cleared. I’m trying to get past my emotional fog.And the sky was still great even though it was a beautiful glorious day in  early spring. And there was just traces of snow in in the parts of the of the woodland where the the leaves had covered the snow, that kind of thing. The day was brisk and sunny. And I remember I was reflecting on that verse from that song. And my foot broke a stick in the pathway, and it went snapped like that. And my brother died by hanging. And I know that he went snap like that too, and it was an instant death and that kind of crazy thought was going through my brain. And then suddenly as that thing went snap, I said, well, life is just like that. You don’t know if you’re gonna be living or dying. You could step in the street and get killed by a car accident in a second. You know, not even be aware this crazy things happen. And then that scripture popped back into my head. And I thought to myself, do you know? When my brother was an idiot. It would take me two weeks to forgive him. And so and and then but I know this about God. If you were in the middle of a crazy, ridiculous, and even awful action like aptic suicide and you realized that you were wrong as a help, in a second God hears. And then I realized, God’s hands were better than mine, much better than mine. And then I said, alright. I can commend his soul to you. And, like, you know, I  was participating in his in his burial. I mean, I did the service with the pastor from my parents’ church. And I I mostly said, but I read the scripture and participated in that thing. And then I, you know, but I had not it would that that the issue wasn’t closed for me. It wasn’t done for me. Until the moment when that twigs snapped. Two years out, walking through a conservation area, I realized in my hard heart, that it’s the the rest of the verses this. If the Lord should count sins, who could stand? Nobody. But with you, there is mercy. That’s the next line. And I said, okay, Lord, I get this. He called himself a believer. He was a lousy believer, but he called us a believer. Right? And so and so listen. He believed in the same God I knew. I am I know this about you God. I know your nature. If in a second somebody says help and cries out, you do. You’re like a dog with a bone. If somebody cries out to you for mercy, your mercy gets sent in the next fraction of a second. That’s not true for me or for most humans. Most of us need time to forgive. Most of us need time to work through the reconciliation steps that are involved in that. Not so with the god I love. And so that was the moment when suddenly the peace turned back inside my soul. When I realized that I’m not God and I’m not the judge and he’s a whole lot better at it than I am. And now I will make a comment because I want people to hear me loud and clear about this suside thing and the thing that I just raised. People wonder if thou shalt not kill this violent and if that ruins somebody’s salvation of them. Let me say this as tenderly as I can. In the Christian faith, actually in Jewish faith too, I can’t speak for the other ones. I’ll just speak for the two that I know well. Your relationship with the God that you love is the basis of your salvation. Not whether you’ve been an idiot at the end of your life.
Alright? Now let me be as clear as I can. I think suicide is the wrong thing to do for lots and lots and lots of reasons. I have stood with families. I just I’m standing with two right now, who just did this. And the person who takes their life usually thinks they’re doing somebody in favor, It’s not true. The whole chaos just sort of explodes. All around the husband, the wife, the son, the daughter, the cousins, the uncles, the aunts, the parents, the friends, the workplace, everything. Just spins out of control for a very long time, varying degrees depending on how much you were attached to the person. But when the day is done, it is not the answer that you want to embrace. That being said, for all the listeners out there who have lost someone through their speech. It is not the fact that somebody makes a snap decision and chooses that or even if they make a plan when they’re in some sort of a weird state of mind. It is the relationship you have that you got, you serve. That determines your internal destiny. So I that for what it’s worth, I I put that in front of your audience because I know people who listen to this particular kind of podcast are trying to figure out how to make sense after a loss.
That’s what they’re doing. So

Victoria Volk: Very well said. Very well said.

David Chotka: Well, listen, I live through it. It’s it’s I live through it. If it’s yeah. So in the last two services that I did, where I did these two burials for and and actually because he was young, and because he was married, because he had a son. I could speak to that.
In fact, I just I had what I call a divine appointment yesterday. It’s funny because, you know, I have things to do, places to go people to see the world to win all that kind of thing. And I have done this general for this lady. Her name is Shentel. And she was a friend of a friend of a friend who called me to do a funeral because they thought it was the right thing to do. And I didn’t have proper contact information for her. And so I wanted to do a follow-up and I had not been able to because I couldn’t And so, actually, this is a crazy thing. On Friday, I said, God, I need to follow-up with this woman. Shentel needs pass through care after the after the thing. She I I’d be in touch with her.
How do I do that? Amen. And the next day, I went to a little free show that was being offered down at the event center down the street. And I walked in and I didn’t even wanna be there. My daughter wanted to go that thing. And I went because I had to go, you know, like I said, and I sit down and Shatjel sits down beside the high pastor, Dave. And that’s in a city of two hundred thousand. Wow. So I made the connection yesterday. One of the things I teach is I pray for a divided appointment today. I asked the Lord to shape my circumstances so that I walk into something that I could not and did not plan. Where God gets the glory or where something is needed that I can contribute to or where I need to receive what I cannot receive unless I have the divine point. Because I know this. God is at work everywhere, absolutely everywhere. And when we can see one or two things happening, God is doing millions. God. But if I could if I could see one thing that God is doing and enter Internet, I know that I’m on the right track. And so when COVID started, I I started to pray that, okay, God, I want one divine appointment a day, at least one. And sometimes I’ll get three and four. But I don’t feel the day is complete unless I’ve had one of those because I’ve prayed that prayer. So that was my divine appointment yesterday. That’s what happened yesterday.

Victoria Volk: I love that. I absolutely love that. You know what? And you might call it synchronicities or what have you. Right? We don’t we often have these things these moments like you said like you shared that happen throughout our lives and maybe in our days. And we maybe pass them off as insignificant or might think of but they’re not.

David Chotka: You know, just they’re not old. No. It’s true. It’s

Victoria Volk: Or you might not even give much thought in the moment, but then later, like, that’s really kinda cool if that happened, but we we don’t think about of it just being, like, this

David Chotka: Divine in nature. I’ll I’ll just say, yeah. Yeah. That’s right. That God did that. I’ll do that. That’s right. I can just say with you. Every significant thing I’ve done in life, every single significant thing that has happened was not my idea. And including the girl that I married. So here’s you’re gonna have with the girl I married. This this is the craziest thing. My heart was broke when the girl that I wanted to marry married somebody else. And I was in tremendous grief. That was another grief that happened there. And so I wound up saying, God, oh, God help me. I’m I’m in a mess here. And so So I wound up going to a a bible school called Regent College in Vancouver to you. It’s a graduate level of seminary. And it had a training component for people who were in careers that didn’t have theological education wanted to do a year out. And so, and I was a pastor and I had I had two degrees before this and I had my third degree there. Anyway, it looked like I was going to school because I wanted to improve my myself. But the real reason I was going there because it was a safe place to be a wreck. And as it turned out, when I was gonna move, I was living in Alberta, and the school was in British Columbia. And there was a good twelve hour drive from one place to the other.
And moving costs are expensive and students don’t have a lot of money, you know, that kind of thing. And I was a pastor and they didn’t pay much, you know, so it’ll just be blunt here. So I was looking for the cheap skateway to move that one of the things across the country. And there was a lady in my congregation who was also moving to the to a different school, but she was going to Vancouver. And she knew somebody in Edmonton that she was gonna be a roommate with because she was moving to Vancouver.
And we started asking about costs, you know? And how can we, you know, how can we pay this thing? And I I I did three or four quotes, and she got three or four quotes. And I said to this lady Ruth, why don’t you find out what it would cost if we put our two households together? I don’t have much. I could shove it in your garage. And it was the same price. And so that meant half price for both of us if we did this. And then she talked to the third person, and it was about ten percent more to move three than it was to move one. And so that’s a significant savings. Right? So I put all my stuff inside Ruth’s garage, and then Ruth had it moved down to Edmonton, and then we, you know, then we moved from Edmonton to. And I and I what I did. I got myself a tent and a sleeping bag. And, you know, and I I tented across British Columbia because it’s beautiful.
You know what? Then what that was it was a solo vacation, but it was great people. Oh, men’s. It’s a gorgeous province. Beautiful lakes and rivers and streams and mountains and trees and all gorgeous outside. So anyway, I get all the way to Vancouver. And the plan was I would show up on the day of the move at ten o’clock in the morning, and I would help the movers get stuff into their their their share department. And then I would direct the driver across town to help move in my stuff. And We save a lot of money and praise the Lord. You know? So I show up. Ruth isn’t there because she has to finish her her teaching issues you teach her up in that position. And she had to finish out this thing. She had a summer school course, she was teaching. But Elizabeth and her cousin were there cleaning the apartment out, getting her ready for the move.
And I show up, and I walk in, and we shoot the breeze, and we wait all day, and the moving van doesn’t come. And we’re hanging together. And, you know, in those days, there were no cell phones. Right? And they had in Vancouver, they didn’t have closed in phone booths. They had little round things that you put change in. And if you wanna do a long distance call, that was a lot of nickels and dimes and quarters. So so she calls from that phone. It gets her dad and said, dad, did you call the company? And he said, okay.
And they said they had he had a breakdown. He’d be there the next day at ten in the morning. And, okay. You forget one day. You know, and they’re gonna pay her hotel cost, and I have a room to stay in with my cafe stuff, so I’m fine. Come back the next day. There’s no moving van. Third day, no moving van. Fourth day. No moving. Yeah. Now we’re in the better business bureau after these guys, you know, trying to track down where this truck is. And so then her Elizabeth’s cousin had to go back to work. I mean, she had she had four days off and she took the four days. And I’m sitting in an empty apartment without so much as a tea bag. We’re saying, you know, there’s we’re there’s nothing to sit on. There’s a stairway in what we took turns sitting on that. I had a camper chair that I brought in. And I’d sit in the camper chair or on the step and we’d alternate this. And we spent all day a single man and a single lady inside this part. And my heart was broke because the girl I wanted to marry married somebody else, you know what? And after about three days of this, of course, we don’t know each other with strangers. And I said to her, look, just for the record, I’m a pastor. No, by the way, anything with a high voice and discouraged. I am not interested at all. I am no desire. My heart is broke. I just don’t wanna do this. And she heaped a big sigh of relief, and she said, well, for the record, I had an old boyfriend and he stalked me. And it was terrible. We had to get the police after him. I said, oh, brother. Well, look, I have two brothers. I had two brothers. That I no. I’m really my stolen. I have two brothers. And I don’t and my mom comes from a very conservative traditional Ukrainian household. She wears a head covering and walks behind my dad. Canadian girls aren’t interested in that. Neither American girls and most girls on Earth aren’t anyway. And so she said, I said, look, I don’t understand females at all. And she said, look, I have two sisters and my dad’s quiet. My mom ran the house and, you know, I don’t understand males at all. I said, look, I need a sister.
And she said, well, I need a brother. Thank you very much. And so we decided to become friends because we’re stuck in this apartment. We were there for ten consecutive days, ten days in that empty apartment. And finally, the guy showed up. And as it turned out, he had decided he was a casual driver who was hired by the moving company, and he put his son in the in the van to go through the BC interior. And he said, this is beautiful. I’m going fishing, and he took his son fishing for ten consecutive days with our stuff in the back of his And so I wound up meeting this lady and getting to know her. And, of course, by the time you get to day four or five, you start sharing deep things. See?
We have no choice. We’re stuck in that room. So in the course of time, I married the girl. But it’s that that’s how it started. It wasn’t even a planned thing. And every and listen, that’s the most important decision in life you can make who’s gonna be your life partner. And I I wasn’t my idea to be stuck in an empty apartment for ten days, you know, waiting for a moving bed. Being forced to have a conference when I was not I was still tender and broken over my own thing, you know, this this whole thing with this girl with married somebody else. And she was in the same as it turned out, this this whole thing turned into. First of all, who are you? To, oh, I guess we’re gonna be friends. Oh, let’s let’s get each other’s back while we’re in the middle of this. I actually prayed with the girl about girls I could take out when my heart started to saw. And then the course of time, she got mad when I gave him one of those names, and she picked dandelions out of the front yard for four hours while she realized she loved me. Then she told me, and then we got married and so on. But regardless of this, it was this it that and, actually, even the school that I wanted to go to, I didn’t so I wanted to go going there. And I had this desire to study your particular book of the bible where there’s a high concentration of holy spirit and unclean spirit language. And I discovered to my great surprise nobody had done the research on that. In all of scholarship, from, you know, five hundred years out, did nothing in French, German, or English. And I wound up going to that school because I like the school, but the guy who was assigned to me was writing the very first book in human history on that topic. And I didn’t choose the guy It was doctor Gordon Fee who wrote this anthology on the holy spirit in the Pauline literature. And I am in that book, but again, I didn’t know who the guy was I was looking for a competent scholar in a good school. That’s all I was doing. And the next thing, you know, I’m with the world’s finest, Paul and spirit scholar, best one on the planet. He’s gone to his reward now, but I will tell you his works are groundbreaking. We wind up being the head of the new international commentary series of the new testament. He wound up writing a huge anithology and holy spirit and a smaller one, they became standard reading in every seminary across the earth. And but I I didn’t try to do that. It was it wasn’t my idea. You know, anyway, the point I’m making here is that in the realm of faith, the intangible is always around us.
Always. You can cooperate with god’s movement, or you can fight it. Now, actually, the the helium prayer book that I wrote, I didn’t make up plan to write a book on healing prayer. It wasn’t me. In fact, the way I wind up doing my first ever healing prayer wasn’t my idea either. And so let me I’d love to tell you that story. Can I can I tell you that story? Sure. Okay. Well, here’s what happened. So I was a seminary student in my tradition. And and and my tradition was a mixed bag of people. There’s some who are what they call supernaturalists and some who are our cessationists believe those gifts of the spirit of cease. And some who said, oh, by the way, that was a pre scientific culture. And they didn’t know how else to describe it. So they attributed to God what was, in fact, a natural phenomena, that kind of thing. Yeah, these three streams going into the school. And I remember going into and we’re a new cohort, you know, and there’s a whole bunch of us that are all excited about going into the ministry and training. About thirty five of us who were swapping notes. And then after about two weeks to figure out who’s in which camp. Right? So, anyway, I I go into the class, and one of the props says this thing about Jesus walking on the water. He said, oh, as a pre scientific coach, and we know that Jesus didn’t actually walk on the water. And I said, wait a minute. I wanna just take a moment here and tell you, I really do believe that he did. It’s it’s I know it defies science and logic. And I’m a science guy, my best marks for science and physics and math and biology and so on. But I believe in the miraculous. And there was a guy in the class who was a first class jokester that the guy was hilarious. All you’d have to do is look at your sideways and the whole room would explode and laughter. And if he told a joke, then it was, how do I describe it? It’s like throwing a humor grenade into the room, waiting for the explosion to happen, and everybody would laugh so hard, it would hurt. You know? So I I say this thing about the miracle being true. And this guy cracks a joke, and everybody in the room starts to laugh. But the joke was at my expense. He was making fun of my believing that Jesus walked in water. Right? So anyway, whether you believe in that or not, this is beside the point for the sake of the story. So here we go.
So I go into one class after the class after the class. And whenever there’s one of these moments where the scripture is being said, it’s it’s not really true or it’s not historically accurate or this is primitive culture or whatever. I would defend scripture and the guy would tell joke. And this went on. It’s been on for months. Right? And I I then there came a defining moment and I said to myself, Yep. I’m never gonna be his friend. It’s not gonna happen. And I had a great class three times when we had to cross the class and was held at a different school. And one day, I was walking across this plaza, and there was a lovely classmate. And I called her Susie in the book. I’ve lost touch with her, but I I grew up in in I don’t have a permission to use it really, but she stops me and she says, David, how are you doing? And she and I’ll just tell you about this girl. She was a very sweet kind, other centered person. You know, that phrase do what others should have them do what to you. That was her write down to the toe nails. Always always others centered, always kind, always consider it. Always well mannered, always, you know, how do I say this?warmly caring. That’s the best way to describe it. Anyway, I’m walking across this class and I said, hey, Susan. How you doing? Said, I’m fine. I’m going to my Hebrew. I said, I’m going to my Greek. And she said, oh, okay. Hey, you know the class committee. I said, oh, yeah. I know. And she said, well, you see that hospital? Six blocks down. And I said, yeah. She said, well, he’s in there. And actually, I I just have to say this victory. I didn’t feel bad for about two minutes. So I had to abandon my stinking Ozzie attitude. Right? Now she didn’t see that, but it was going on exactly. Anyway, Finally, I looked at her. I said, oh, listen, what’s up? And she said he has phlebitis. I said, what’s that? And then she described it. She said, he’s got a clot in his arm. It’s in his vein. If the clot breaks free, it’ll travel to one or three places, the brain, the heart, or the lung. If it gets to any of those, you’re dead ninety five times out of a hundred. And I thought, oh, man, that’s bad. I said, I’m so sorry. Is he getting good care? You know, in Canada, healthcare is free. So I said, is he getting good care? He said, yeah, he’s in the hospital, now it’s university hospital. It’s a good one. I said, oh, okay. And I said, well, okay. Thanks for telling me. And she said, wait, I have something to say to you from him. Yeah. I went to see him and he asked me to ask you something. I said, oh, what do you ask? She said, he wants you to come and pray for it. I said, what? What kind of craziness is that? And so you know, and I said, I’m not going. And she said, why aren’t you going? I said, you have seen it. He’s been cruel. He’s mocked me in front of our peers on a regular basis. Every time I just say anything about the scripture being historically accurate, you know. And so and so she said, you know, he has been cruel. I said, yeah. Said, okay, I’ll talk to him. I said, well, I’m not going that way, I went to my class. And the next day, I see her in the coffee lounge in school.
Right? And we’re shooting a braze about this type of thing. And she said, well, listen, I I went see the Canadian in the hospital. And he’s terribly sorry that he did what he did to you. Would you go and see him? I said, I’m not going. Because now, There were three reasons why I wasn’t going. Number one was the one I’ve made to you. He mocked me in front of our peers, and it it it hurt. It really did hurt. The second was that I had never met anybody healed by what the Bible calls the prayer faith. I didn’t know anybody. I’d seen the crazies on television, slapped people on the forehead, screaming. And throwing hankies in the air. But I think that was a helpful model. Now the third thing is, I did I had not been trained in this. I didn’t I received no training. I didn’t know and I didn’t know if it was for today or not. I just didn’t know. But, you know, so I I I just told her I’m not going. And the next day, I’m walking across the same three times a week Plaza. And there she is going to her class. And she said, oh, by the way, did you go and see our friend in the hospital? I said, I’m not going. Now, Victoria, have you ever been told off by your mother? This is what the girl looked like. You know what I’m saying that you you get the fire in your eyes and you get the anger. Coming out of your pores and, you know, this girl outside in front of a crowd of people who are walking by, yelled at me at the top of your life. So he stopped her foot. The fire came out of her, you know, her visits, you know, and she gave that meeting. She used my middle initial. She knew a middle initial. She said David, our shotgun. Aren’t you gonna no. Aren’t you going around this school saying that the Bible is the word of God that’s supposed to be obeyed? I said, yes. She said, well, how about this? I was sick and you visited me. That’s what the Bible says. That’s what Jesus says and I thought, oh, No. We’re gonna have to go and see the guy. I’ve fell below eleven in my center. And I thought, okay. I’ll go. But it says sick and visit.
It doesn’t say sick and prayed. She said, whether it’s visitor, whether it’s prayed, he asked for you to go. So go. So I finished my class. Then I walked to six blocks.
I got to the hospital many times. And he was in a bad way, just, you know, he had monitors on him and, you know, the the tubes were going into his arms and and the sound the beeping sounds of the monitors were happening every couple of, you know, couple of minutes and The nurse chargers walked in drop, so medication watched him take it, you know, in the short time I was there. Anyway, he’s why does it go? He’s obviously terrified. And, you know, he and he told me that the clot had not shrunk.
It was still large. And I so I talked to him about the weather. Because I didn’t know what to do. I’d never done it before. Greer than your average rookie, you know, just just did not a clue. So I did the visit thing. I I talked about the weather. Then I asked him about his coursework and he was keeping up. And I said, well, I visited you now. I can go.
And he stopped and he looked at me and he said, wait. Aren’t you? Aren’t you gonna pray? And I said before I even consider that question, I have to ask you one of my own, why? Every single time I’ve said anything about the miracles of Jesus and healing or about the Lord’s miraculous life or about the cross being serious about the resurrection or anything to do with the faith. You have made me a laughing stock. Why? Do you want me to pray for you? And he burst into tears and he began to weep and he said, I’m twenty seven years old, the clock is big in my arm. If that clock breaks free, I’m dead.
That I don’t want to die. Won’t you please pray? Let your god heal me. And I mean, what are you gonna do? I mean, it was obvious the guy really didn’t mean it. But I still had not a sweet clue. What to do? I’ve never been dragged. It’s only way. What I then I remember, oh, the Bible says Jesus put his hand on people. Right? They did that. So I said, well, look, can I come or can I put my hand over you? He said, yeah, you could do that. I said, which arm is it? He said left arm above the elbow. So I went around to his side, and I put my hand over his left arm. Right where that embolism was he said was located. And I put my other hand on his yet. And then I don’t know, honestly, to this day, I can’t remember what I prayed, Victoria. And I’m sure it was an honest prayer. But it was pretty pathetic. Oh, God helped something like that. And I but here’s what happened in the middle of that prayer. Well, I don’t remember the words, but I remember the defining moment. The room filled with presence That’s the only way I can describe it. It was like compassion, filled the air, married together with love and fire. And both of us looked because something had happened, you know. It’s it’s one thing to just have a little prayer and lead the robot. We both locked eyes and we knew something was happening. And then that fire filled my soul and I cried a hot tear in the corner of my right eye. And I felt this energy rising inside of me and focus. The only way I can describe this, total complete focus on him and on God’s love freedom and how the Lord wanted him to receive a miraculous healing. And so then I said, oh, God healed this, something like this. God healed this man, and while I had my hand on his arm, that energy float down my arm and went into his. He looked at me and he said, what is that fiery presence? I said, spirit of Jesus, he’s making you well. And I ran out of the room right after that. For a lot of reasons, never one and never my life felt anything like that. Never.
Secondly, I didn’t know if I was even supposed to pray that way. Because I’ve not resolved the issue theologically. I I just didn’t know. And thirdly, I was terrified he was gonna make be. And I didn’t know if he’s gonna be. I mean, all these reasons are floating in my head to run out of the room. The next day, I’m in the school. And so is he? I said, you’re here? He said, I am. I said, what happened? And and then he he he it it was a nineteenth century stone building and he shoved me in one of these stone corners behind the column, and he looked in every direction, you know. Therese the floor hard everything. And then he said, that prayer. Changed my life. I said, thank you, and I ran away because I still I I I had the time to process it, you know? And then I went to my next class that he was in, we had three classes in common. And I said something that defended the scripture and he stood up to tell the joke. And he made fun of not believing. And the whole class exploded in laughter but the laughter was at the expense of unbelief, not faith. And he did that in rig class. I was with him, and then I heard from classmates that he was doing that in other classes where I was not present. And I didn’t know. So that story that I just told you, that’s in the healing prayer book that that prompted the conversation between you and I get on the the podcast here. So anyway, we had the summerfield thing and he I had to go away for four months and he walks up to me, he passes me a piece of paper with his phone number on it. And he says, if you’re in trouble, you’re trouble. You call me. You call me. I said, whoa. Okay. So I went to wait to wait to interview. Had a marvelous time, because it’s one of those times where you’re you’re looking at the new thing and you’re learning all kinds of marvelous things. And I learned how to preach a sermon, I learned how to visit people. I did I participated in a wedding, you know. Then I had four funerals. I had those four funerals. But the pastor wasn’t there and I learned how to do that. And then, of course, he came back from vacation way unpacked all the learning I discovered how to do various things. Anyway, I get back to school. And he walks up to me and he says, you didn’t call me. I said, I didn’t have any trouble. And he said, if you’re in trouble, you call me, you know, it’s always a little okay. Anyway, a couple months in, there’s a party for the students. Right? And we’re all gathered together, and we’re talking this and that. We’re just shooting a breeze. About nothing because if you do it apart, you have a little laugh, you know what? I was standing with him and his wife and this girl who had asked me in the first place. Because that girl and this man’s wife were great bunnies. Anyway, the two girls look at him and begin to get me elbow. You know, you’re you’re gonna have to tell Chuck what happened. Tell Chuck. Tell Chuck. Tell Chuck. He said, oh, I don’t wanna tell Chuck to what happened. And then eventually, he did. And he said, right after you left, the charters walked in. And I said, I can go home now. My friend from the bible’s book, he’s come here. He’s prayed in Jesus’ hand. And the charge nurse says, we don’t do things like that around here. We gotta run tests. He said, well, run the test then. And so they did because it was it was actually due for them. Every trace of phlebotis was gone from his body. And it had been big the day before every trace was gone. His wife picked him up. He was discharged from the hospital after all the tests confirmed that he was well. He went home and, of course, he’s thankful. Right? I mean, we’re we’re talking and he could have died and he’s well. And he kneels down beside his bed and he thanks the Lord. They go to bed and he prays before he sleeps. And he has a dream and in the dream, he hears a voice. And the voice says, my servant David defends the integrity of my word, and no one defends him. I’m gonna cry when I tell you this, when he defends the integrity of my word. You defend him. And he did for three years, all through that theological education. Thirty years later, thirty years after that event, he we changed I changed the nominations. He’s still in the scene over, but he contacted me.
I lost touch with him. And he said thirty years ago, he prayed for Jesus to heal my arre. Thank you that you did. I’m well. Three kids. Happily married. Finish she enters now retirement. He finishes ministry. Anyway, I I just asked you. Healing prayer was not my idea. It was a kiss so the reason the book is called God’s idea because it wasn’t my idea. It wasn’t this is not something that I decided that I wanted to learn how to do. It was something that I tripped into together with every other major thing that I’ve ever done in life. And actually learning how to breathe for the die. Wasn’t my idea? That the four funerals were of the late first one with the lady who was supposed to organize this, you know. So mean, it’s hilarious when you stop and think about it, but it’s it’s to deal with what you call pathos, this kind of strange emotion where you know you’re in the middle of something bigger than you. Much bigger than you. So, yeah, that’s and so the design appointment a day is an extension of that same principle. I want to be in something that I have not ordained, not established, not built toward. I mean, I want to do that too. I want to have a successful trajectory in what doing, etcetera, terror. That’s just ordinary life. But I want to know God’s involved in something. And so I ask him for those divine appointments each day. And he sends them. So I do believe in the power of faith to heal the breathing heart. I do. And the way that I describe the way God speaks is that he speaks nonverbally by presence. And that heals the broken heart. Let me tell you what I mean by that. There’s a text in the book of Romans. That’s, by the way, that’s the famous book from the from the apostle Paul, everybody who’s any kind of Christian reads Romans. It’s the if they call it the capital, that’s what because it’s the one that everybody refers to for all kinds of teaching. That is standard procedure in every branch of the Lord’s Church, whether you’re protestant or orthodox or evangelical or charismatic. They all say the capital of Pittsburgh’s Romans fourteen says this. Kingdom of God is not eating and drinking. Because they were arguing about eating and drinking. The kingdom of God is righteousness and peace and joy. In the holy spirit. And so the experience of knowing the lord through an encounter with the spirit produces three identity murders. Righteousness is a sweet walk with God, and peace is internal serenity despite external circumstance. And joy is internal celebration even when the world is flying apart. And when those three things wax large, and you find yourself in something you have not expected. That’s God talking. When you are praying find yourself in when those three things wacklired, and suddenly a stream of consciousness comes into your brain. To go and see so and so down the street. And you go when you discover there in a crisis moment. That’s God talking. When those three things diminish, that’s the hand of warning. Pay attention. And when they’re jarred, get out of the room. You’re about them correct. You’re about to walk into a disastrous business meeting. Get out of the room. This is God talking saying, this is big trouble right here. And I teach people how to pay attention to those three markers. And actually, to do more than just say, isn’t that a nice little coincidence? But to attribute that to God’s direct involvement in her lives. Because healing prayer is God’s idea. It’s not ours. Buraculous intervention is God’s idea, not ours. And it’s this is how scripture works. So, I mean, Can you imagine what it was like for Peter James and John and Xevity when they got called? I mean, they’re working in the boat. Jesus of Nazareth shows up there’s a miraculous catch of fish. You know, and let us I just wanna put I wanna illustrate that right in the sketch for you. They have found boats from that era owned by fishermen. That on average, they’re twenty seven feet long, they’re eight feet across and they’re four feet high. And two of those boats were sinking with the fish because they were filled to the brim. And so imagine you’re out there. You’ve worked hard all night. You’ve got nothing. You know you gotta pay your bills. You haven’t got enough money to pay the bills. And you’re washing your nets, repairing them because, you know, you gotta pay the bills. This is just not helpful. I know. So anyway, This guy shows up and says, throw your nets over there. Right? So they do and that they didn’t want to do that, but they did. And there were so many wrinkling tilapia in those two boats, then it touched their toes, it touched their ankles, it touched their knees, it touched it went up to four feet. I mean, I’m here. That much, and the boat is right at water level, and the other boat over there is doing the same thing. And then Jesus says, I want you to follow me. I mean, That was the Simon Peter’s idea. It actually says he throws himself down, but actually this is a tale of people who don’t know this. He has to throw himself down in the fish not on the shore because the boat had not yet come to shore. He throws himself down into a massive wriggling tilapia and he says to Jesus of Nazareth. I am not worthy of this. You are God, and I am not. And Jesus said to him, don’t be afraid you’re not gonna catch fish. You’re gonna haul in humans. That’s what you’re gonna do. Wasn’t his idea. Thank you very much. So that’s how that’s how I understand. Ministry. That’s how I understand care for people in grief.

Victoria Volk: I had a moment quite a few years ago there was a gentleman that died in my community. Okay. I think he was, I don’t know, late eighties, maybe even early nineties. A plumber by trade, new everybody, right, in the community.

David Chotka: Yep.

Victoria Volk: And I remember sometime before I passed away, we were sitting outside the bar.

David Chotka: I was

Victoria Volk: just sitting outside. It was a nice summer night evening or whatever, and I never really had a conversation with the guy before that.

David Chotka: Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: And he told me, I’m not even sure why, but he told me that the best thing he ever did was choosing to adopt his wife’s children as his

David Chotka: own. Okay.

Victoria Volk: Fast forward, I’m not sure how long after that, he passed away. Mhmm. But when he passed away, they had a celebration of life in the bar just, you know, everybody got together and things like that. And I just had this poll to go to the bar. I didn’t know who his kids were, didn’t know what they look like, to tell them what he said.

David Chotka: It changed their life. Right?

Victoria Volk: I don’t know. In the moment, I you know, I I did go and I did share what he shared with me.

David Chotka: Yeah. I

Victoria Volk: don’t know if they reflected on it after the fact or whatnot, but, you know, it was one of those things, like, it wouldn’t leave me alone. You know, like, I came home and

David Chotka: That’s him. That’s good. Yeah. Yeah. The fact that he should tell you in a happenstance, and that you that you should pass away shortly thereafter Mhmm.
And that you get commanded to go to that place, to say this, to a bunch of people you do not know.

Victoria Volk: Mhmm.

David Chotka: That’s him. Yeah. That’s hearing the voice. So you have heard the voice of Jesus. You’ve heard it.

Victoria Volk: I have several there I’ve had a lot of moments in my life. Even my marriage with my husband, like, we were friends for seven years. I was heartbroken and And I I’ve asked him, like, what made you, like, decide to pursue me? He really can’t answer that. Kind of funny because we hadn’t looked at each other, like, that way, you know, in a, like, in a the romantic way.
You know, we were friends for seven years.

David Chotka: Yep.

Victoria Volk: And and then all of a sudden, he was like this relentless consumer night and shining armor, you know. And I’d I’d I’d said one prayer. I just bring someone into my life who is good for me.

David Chotka: And the Lord heard you prayer.

Victoria Volk: And he heard my prayer. Yeah. Twenty plus years later, here we are. Three kids.

David Chotka: Well, so listen, though, the whole point of this podcast is to bring comfort to people who are distressed or in trouble. That’s the whole point of your podcast. I will say that the most important thing you can do is to straight up, some people have stroke trouble with faith, some people may break

Victoria Volk: down church. I did myself.

David Chotka: Yeah. Some people who had a bad experience in that catheter, some priest abused them or or maybe they’ve heard about that priest abusing their best friend and or they they were turned off by some bitter bibles number, you know, showing up pro bar in somebody. So nothing worse than that. Oh my heavens. Anyway, That the the point is it doesn’t matter where you are. The point is that don’t let a bad experience of some idiot. Get in the way of your accessing what is freely available to anyone who asks for it. One of my favorite scriptures is is found in the psalms. It says this God is near to the broken heart. So if you’re broken hearted, pray this very simple prayer. Okay? Your word says, so please send it. Please please come here. I’m Broken Heart. And the way that he shows up by presence is to manifest himself within, with this velvety smooth assurance of war, and behind your physical estate.
And I’ve I’ve tried to put words around this. And if you can say this better than can’t I will lift your quote. I’ll give you credit, but I’ll tell I’ll use it. This is so the way that I feel to mind presence, there’s this cognitive thing where you choose it and you say, oh, yes. Is fine and you make the decision that isn’t that nice, but that’s not that doesn’t cover the ground. There comes this moment inside where the believer knows inside their door. That’s the only way to describe this. Mhmm. There’s this awareness and it is other than you And it is something that is separate and distinct from you, but intrinsic to who you are because you said yes to him. And you sense this rising sense of fiery gentle presence and it’s a velvety smooth It’s assurance, it’s grace, it’s love, it’s yearning for more of him, and it’s settled contentness in who he is. Even if your circumstances are terrible. With the peace of God, which passes understanding, keep guard over your hearts and minds, In the knowledge and love of Christ, Jesus, so says the apostle Paul in the book of Philippians when he was in jail of all things. He was in jail when he wrote that he had a Roman guard chained to his wrist while he’s writing this stuff. I wonder what that Roman guard thought about the fact that the Apostle was writing this of just this. And he didn’t know he’s an apartment. He thought he was some guy who was upfront charges, you know, that kind of thing. And he writes about this experience of the internal presence with peace Staying like like a guard keeping watch over your door of faith. It’s like a soldier, a century standing at your door, walking back and forth. Making sure that the prisoner inside that space is content. That’s what I would ask people to consider doing to. Open their hearts up to that. Now, if there’s an atheist out there, my dad was an atheist. He became an agnostic, and then he became a Christian believer. He became a Christian believer because Jesus of Nazareth appeared to him. It was the most amazing kind of thing. And he’d suffered much. He had he’d lost a lot of his eyesight because of the childhood thing. He had scoped cold bottles in glasses. He then was treated by friends and family. And he didn’t believe that it was possible that people out there were actually kind of a gentleman’s suite. And then I became a believer. I was the first one in my family. Again, that wasn’t my idea. That wasn’t my dad’s idea either. Right? It was my mom’s idea. And when it was all set and done, my face impacted his existence course because that’s your kid. You got what he can do with this. You know, what school of the ministry is. What’s this crazy kind of thing? Be a dentist, be a doctor mix a month, you know? Be a lawyer. That’s that’s the immigrant story. So what there’s a Jewish joke or what’s the difference between a tailor and psychiatrist? One generation.
Anyway, getting back to this. He he couldn’t believe. And I remember praying for him three years. And then there was one critical moment where suddenly this whole thing changed. And he banging his head on a on a on a beam in one of our storerooms area and east war to jeez, his name to date. And the Lord behind him said, yes. And he turned around and he was eyes to eyes with the risen Lord. In the doorway of that storeroom, And my dad had agreed three education. And since because his eyes were bad when he was a little kid, but as they locked his eyes together, I he’s telling me the story is towards what is she and hardly speak and said, dad, What was that like? He said it was like I was looking into wells of love. He never talked that way. Grade three education, you don’t read Edison for fun. You’re not a Shakespeare fixinato. You’re not reading, you know, lawn failure. You’re not reading the wallwood or anything.
You’re you’re not you’re

Victoria Volk: I mean, he was an atheist.

David Chotka: Yes. Well, at that point, probably an agnostic. At that point, he kinda thought because of growing things regardless. Didn’t believe in that. And So apparently, he was looking at the Lord and I I’m he’s telling me the story about a week after it happened, trying to give words to this. Physically shaking. And then he I said, dad, what did you say? So if I told Jesus that I loved my son and he met me because I was the pastor, you know. And then Jesus said, I know this. And then he said to the Lord, I’m a sinner. And Jesus said, I forgive you. And he vanished. That’s how my dad came to faith. Wasn’t his idea. He banged his head on a beam. Took the Lord’s name in vain and the Lord appeared to him. I haven’t had a crazy kind of thing. So I’m a supernatural I believe from the power of the Lord to intervene in the flow of history, but I’m also a horse stance guy. I don’t believe that everybody you pray for sealed. I do believe that people die young. I do believe that sometimes people make bad bad bad mistakes and do terrible things they shouldn’t do. I do believe that crazy people kill others and so on and so forth. And there’s this thing where I do believe in the scientific enterprise and I do believe in the power of God in your v. And they flow in different channels. And some some faith traditions say you can never put these two channels together, and I completely disagree with that. Science works inside the framework of a world that is created, and God established those rules of creation. And so we, scientific enterprise, is only uncovering what lies fallow under the surface of the soil, and they endeavor to discover a trajectory of a particular sickness or affliction they find a cure or they find an adaptive therapy, you should take the gift. And every now and then there’s a miraculous intervention. And sometimes the two of them overlap like this beautifully. And sometimes they separate out and run-in different pathways, but regardless of this.
What I teach in the book and the reason I wrote the book, it’s a co write by the way. Co writer is a million selling author by the name of Dr. Maxi Dunnham. Have I got his yeah. Here’s his book. This book is the one that trained me in Huddl. Ford quicker living prayer. Maxi wrote this. It’s a million seller. And it gives it the the structure of this book is inspired. It’s the structure is the thing that that was amazing. He would give a little bit of teaching, a little bit of scripture, a little bit of reflecting, recording, a little bit of a challenge. You do that for seven days in the week. He learned how to pray. It’s just this and you do it by praying, not just by reading about prayer. Well, I met him and he and I wrote wrote together this book called healing prayer, and then I’ve that I’m on your podcast to talk about. And, of course, it includes stories of people dying before their time and grieving. It includes stories of people who who who prayed one way and who ended up getting something else. And it includes miraculous accounts of divine intervention. So there’s five pathways made in this book. The first one is the instant heal, and I’ve told you a couple of those stories now, and rackets integrations. The second is a pathway to a remedy. Somebody does research, well, and you wind up meeting the person who’s got an adaptive therapy for what you’re discovering you need. Well, take it. They spent thirty years because their kids’ sister died in leukemia and they’ve studied cancer. Well, why would you resist taking the fruit of someone’s labor when their intention was to make this this cure possible. Take it. That’s from God too. Third is an ordinary healing. Now, I will tell you something about this. My wife was miraculously cured of muscular dystrophy. That stories in this in this book about halfway through. It was incredible to watch. Before she was cured. If she damaged a muscle, the muscle was damaged forever. After she was cured, if she damaged a muscle, the muscle healed. So natural healing is also part of the equation. Then there is suffering that we don’t understand. And for some reason, it’s there. We wait through it. We don’t understand it. Sometimes somebody dies young. And last is the miraculous crossing in the end of your life. All of us have a purpose and all of us completed. And all of us have to face our maker. All five of those are legitimate means by which God leads us in this journey called healing prayer. That’s God’s idea.

Victoria Volk: So what about that with your wife and your daughter? The polarity of

David Chotka: Yeah. I live between the two. Like, I I do. I live between the two. Now, before I go any further, I I do have a two o’clock coming up.
And it’s it’s one fifty one.

Victoria Volk: Well, would you briefly share that how because your daughter has

David Chotka: Yes. So the way I say it is this. My daughter has my tonic dystrophy. My wife was cured of curing FSH. She’s adopted.
My wife was was hesitant in her family life. Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: And

David Chotka: we’ve when we adopted the girl, we didn’t know. And so part of the miracle of providence. Is that she was adopted into a family that could accommodate her and muscular dystrophy, and we knew it. Now I hope that in my mind, that’s not enough. I want the rest. Thank you very much. And so for about twenty years, we would pray for her to be well. And now we pray for her to be a peace. That’s how we pray because the the answer hasn’t come. So the way I describe it in the book is God initiates and we respond. Not we initiate and God responds. It doesn’t work that way. Thank you very much. So I teach people how to pay attention to the mind leading in that. Howard Bauchner:

Victoria Volk: What I kind of want to touch on now then is what you kinda said was how people can feel like their prayers are not being heard. Like, prayers are not being answered and

David Chotka: Yes.

Victoria Volk: And I have this thought or belief within myself that yes, pray, but you also have to move your feet.

David Chotka: Actually, the bet I heard heard of this bet this way. If you pray for potatoes, put your hands in plow. Yeah. I’m listening to this little kid. Right?
And it’s actually really that’s an important principle. And when it’s all said and done, The the principle behind that is not what it called passively. You don’t sit in your button with for God to take care of everything. You are born to work. And the reason why Adam was given the assignment of the garden was because he wasn’t just supposed to sit there and watch the animals. He was supposed to tend soil. You are created in the image of God in order to be creative and to do enter into the acts that God would have you do. Now, what do you do with unanswered prayer? There is this I have a chapter in the book where I talk about medicine, miracle, and mystery. And how all three of them intertwine. And the thrust of the book is to say, we are not god. We are those who are in submission to the movement of God’s spirit. And we cannot manipulate the Lord to accomplish all that we want because we we only have a little three pound brain. And the best that you and I can do is to use the three pounds and train it. But you can’t tell it’s around the corner. In fact, this lady that I was just gonna see just canceled and I wasn’t expecting that. Alright? So I didn’t know that. I had organized my time since I’d be done according to your timetable and then pick up my coal. So I I can’t tell that, but now we have more time to be able to to navigate this because we’re in the middle of an important cover that isn’t completed. You can break this up into two episodes if you want to do that, which is what you might do. But regardless of that, God initiates and he leads us in paths that we do not understand or know. And when it is all said and done, we’re always left with holding history. There are seasons where we see miraculous breakthrough, and there are seasons where we see partial breakthrough. And there are scenes where we see no breakthrough at all. This one came to a head when I had a buddy who was in his fifties. And I was pastor in church forty five minutes from here. I was serving in Chad and Ontario, now serving in Windsor. But it’s but that church was a really solid place. My very first ever visit was to this guy. So I arrive in my office, and the secretary walks in and says to me, you gotta go on see Bob. He wants the new passenger to come and see him. So we’re talking The books are not out of the boxes yet. I mean, I put the books in the office. The bookshelves are being constructed. And I said, well, I guess I can go down the road and see this guy, so I get in the car and I do my first ever pass through a call in that church. I walk into this house. He’s on an oxygen oxygen mask. And he’s carrying this tube with him and he’s full of cancer. And his godly wife is caring for him and they’re sweet people, but I know his skin is the wrong color.
His eyes are the wrong color. And I have been around the block enough to know when somebody’s tied days your number. So I pray a prayer of comfort with him. That’s the way I prayed. And I get back in my car and I drive home, but it was the end of the day.
I said to my wife, look, I think I got a funeral coming up. It’s a guy named Bob. Apparently, he’s a godly fellow. I just met him. I was in his home. And I think I’m gonna do here. What I didn’t know was that the elders of the church had already booked in to see him that night and he didn’t tell me that. And the elders went to pray for him, obeying James chapter five where it says that the elders of the church and like the with the royal prayer phase, etcetera. And he went into a miraculous recovery. And three days later, he’s down in South Carolina at Myrtle Beach. Gulfy. Exactly. He’s had this astonishing recovery in the board chair, Hal Norton, and him, Bob Roberts, they’re out there down there. Galtham, because he had this amazing recovery, happened instantly in front of those elders. And so I had witnessed amazing. This is incredible. In the in the course of time, Bob became a friend. Bob and Marlene and and was one of a a group of four couples and we all got together and we should reason laugh. He was one of the fun he was a delightful guy and there was a guy named Bill and Bill and Bob would do these back and forth kind of hilarious things. And if you were in the middle of that that rep r t, you’d laugh until you were done. It was just this marvelous fun and whenever I wanted to blow off steam always with Bob. He became one of my elders, and I remembered having significant prayer times with him. There was one that happened just before he became my friend. He said, I wanna go to a a church in Toronto that has a reputation of of being one of these healing places. I said, that’s a three and a half hour drive, Bob.
You wanna go? He said, yeah. I wanna go. I booked my associate in preaching because that was my sermon prep day. And he and I together with our two wives drove down the highway and it took us four hours because the highway was busy. We pull up at this place, and we show up at this place, and nobody prays for him, nobody prays for me. It doesn’t happen. You know? And we’re at the door of the place. And I said, this is crazy, Bob. We’ve gone four hours. One way, we gotta go four hours back. You wanna pray now, but he said, well, we better. So I put my hand on him. His wife and my wife put their hand on hand. We started to pray. Bob started to laugh. Heart filled joyful laughter. It just bubbling from inside of him. It was it was honest joyful laughter. Hilarious. And so he didn’t stop laughing. What what we got in the car to drive back home. And for the four hour drive from Toronto to Chatham, he kept laughing. And I had you know, then he gets in his car and his wife, Marlene, had the drive home because he was still laughing. And from that point forward, the man that I knew was full of laugh the laughter subsided when he finally went to sleep. But he started to have a crazy hilarious sense of humor, and it became part of this for some couple of things where we’d always have fun. And he became an elder in my church and we did all kinds of amazing things together and he was what I called bible from where Bob. He was the guy who called the elders to account when they were being a pack of idiots. When they were when they weren’t gonna do something that was the right thing to do because it caused too much.
He pulled the bible out, and he’d tell us off. You know, and then he make a joke and everybody in the room would crack up laughing. And then we’d we’d adopt the expensive decision and do the right thing and the money would come. And he was that kind of a guy. And then the cancer returned. And four years later, I was in the hospital room when he died. His daughter was with him. I was in the room. It was two o’clock in the morning. I got called up because it was pretty, you know, severe, and I was holding his hand. And his daughter was holding his other hand. And he breathed his last. I did the funeral. And when I was doing this funeral, I did my very best to put best foot forward, but this was not just a parishioner. This was a very good friend and this was someone who had seen healing and it ended and he died. And I remember so I did this service. I don’t know. I did my best to present a positive take on this. I watched his body descend to the ground. I went back to the office. I closed the door. I put a cover over the window. I sat in the corner and I cried like a baby, because that was my friend. Three weeks later, I was with the other three couples plus the widow. And they were thanking me for doing a beautiful service. And I said, okay, thank you. I appreciate that. And they said, yeah, it was so amazing to see Bob healed. I said, healed. I just buried and he was fifty five. He died. What are you talking about? And they looked at me and they said, you didn’t know him before. Did you? I said, no. I moved here. My first visit was him. He was on an oxygen tank, and there was this amazing recovery, and and they said, well, He was clinically depressed for a dozen years. He hadn’t laughed in a dozen years. And you drove him to that church in Toronto and nobody prayed for him. And then you and Elizabeth and Marlene prayed for him and he started to laugh. And the clinical depression vanished. And they were given three and a half years of blissful married life. Before he died of the cancer in the last six months. Jesus healed them of clinical depression. Even though he died at fifty five young. So what I say in the book is there’s this thing called already, not yet. We’re already participants in the powers of the next age. We are not yet as we should be. And those two realities overlap just like that in every life, in every family. And so I saw my wife healed. I’ve actually been physically healed. I had a paralyzed face. I was told I’d never speak again when I was fifty three. And the Lord healed me, and that’s a long story as well. I don’t want to tell a long story. It was so remarkable. It got recorded by the Christian Broadcast Network and there’s been a hundred and twenty thousand views of that story. I had a face that the doctor told me would never heal, and I was completely healed in a process that was just absolutely filled and wonder. And my daughter’s not. So I’ve been healed. My wife’s been healed. My daughter’s not. And I live between two ages that overlap, the age of life and the age of death. And the victory is partial until Jesus returns at the end of time.
Than what God would have us do. It’s live between the times and celebrate his presence in this fallen and broken world. Do we people who extend love and grace to those who have none? And to walk with them through all their struggles and all their difficulties, trusting that God will intervene in their lives.

Victoria Volk: Amen. That is a beautiful place to end this podcast, actually.

David Chotka: Well, thank you. That’s it. Yeah. There’s a scripture that has both of those in it. I’ll I’ll just say it to you. I think that’s a good way for me to close the sentences. The loved now We are children of God. It does not yet appear we should be. But when he appears, we shall be like him. For we shall see him as he is. Now, not yet. First John chapter three verse two. That’s where the believer lives.

Victoria Volk: Thank you so much. For all of your stories, for making what you shared relatable to people who may be struggling with their faith. I know I did personally for many years

David Chotka: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: And, you know, you you some people go many years blaming God for their circumstances and I think he lies in wait. Just waiting for us to awaken to his love for us, I suppose.

David Chotka: Yeah. Now the love’s unmerited. We don’t deserve it. Absolutely don’t deserve it. It comes because it comes. And it isn’t our idea. It isn’t our idea. It’s it’s God’s idea to love us. We just got the your guy. He woke up and he pursued you.
Yeah. Yeah. That’s it. Wasn’t your idea? Wasn’t it? Yeah. Look, that’s why. Why did she do that? Oh, because I love you. I just he just did that. And you So it’s the same with with the love of God toward us. We don’t deserve it. They even know why he wants to bother, but he does. So if you can awaken to that, it becomes something beautiful. And that’s where we live.

Victoria Volk: I love that. Where can people find you?

David Chotka: I have a website that’s the easiest way spirit equip dot com. And I think you’ll I think I sent the links to you, if I’m not mistaken, I believe. Yeah. Anyway, it’s the the word spirit is the same as holy spirit, s p I r I t, and a word equip is the same as the beginning of equipment, EQU IP. Put the two things together, spiritequip.com.
That’s my website. And it has links to all my social media, so my Instagram thing is there, my YouTube channels there, my blogs are there, my Facebook page is there, and so on and so forth.

Victoria Volk: And my In your books?

David Chotka: My books are there too. And, yes, all the things that the the ability to book me, I do three day events in churches. And if people want me to come to their church, I’m more than able to do that. You just have to give me some lead time. Pay my hair fair and take up offerings. That’s what we do. It’s it’s not expensive to do. Find me a place to stay as long as it’s not some scsi dive. You know, find me a private room with Matthew. And then I’m more than happy to come into churches. I teach principles. I’ll tell you why I the the organization is called Spirit Equipment. Because nobody equipped me in the spiritual disciplines. I had to learn the hard way. And my goal is to make spiritual disciplines one small step at a time, simple for people so that they know what steps they can take, so that they can learn to enter into the things that God would have us learn. And so I have five books out. All of them are books that teach spiritual disciplines one small step at a time. And so spirit clip dot com is named after the activity that’s involved in my ministry. And and I do it all cross denominational line. I’m gonna be speaking to a bunch of methodists in a few months. I’m gonna speak to a pentecostal group after that. I’m I’m working with the Christian missionary alliance. I have preached him back to churches and men and night churches. I have spoken trans denominationally to Catholics and Africans and Baptist and Presbyterian and many Knights. You name it, they’re all there. Either my own denomination, sometimes they’ll let me speak in my own too. Anyway, I am an orthodox believer. I believe in, you know, the classic statements, the creed of the church, and so on. And I’m looking for really three things when I’m going into a church. I know that I can work with you. And number one, you have a high view of the bible as final. That you believe that Jesus is in fact God the sun and that you believe that that the new birth is essential. If those three things are there, I don’t care which background is I can work with you. And that those are the groups that I go to.

Victoria Volk: And so I will put your website in the show notes, and anything else you would like to pass along with me to add?

David Chotka: You know, right now, I’m trying to figure out some way to get the first chapter of the book and audiobook. Available. So I’m talking to my publisher. So God willing, I think it’s really important that you actually it’s it’s in my voice and in the voice of the other co writer. And so both of our voices are in the first chapter. And we both tell a story or two. And it’ll be I’m trying to get that done. So If I don’t get it done from my publisher, I’m gonna rerecord it myself and send it to you. I’d like to make that available to anybody who’d like to receive that.

Victoria Volk: Sounds good. And anything else you’d like to share that you don’t feel and you got to?

David Chotka: Oh, listen. We covered the ground here. We went long. We waxed long so that we could cover all the ground. So I think we did. There’s lots I could teach and talk about. I’ve written five books. I have a book on hearing the voice of Jesus. I have a book on dealing with the key phrases and words of the Lord’s prayer. I have this one on healing prayer. I’m writing I’m rewriting the Lord’s prayer book, and I have a book where I am where I’m teaching on the Holy Spirit, how Holy Spirit works. I’m a I’m a sessional lecturer in the Pathways School for Ministry on the Holy Spirit’s baptismal, what it looks like, how it works. So these are the areas of my expertise. And I’m more than happy to to talk. In this case, I believe with your podcast, your audience, the Healing Cray book was the best book to to put forward. It was the one that speaks to the constituency that you’re in.

Victoria Volk: I would agree. Yeah. And thank you so much for everything that you shared today and to my listeners and I enjoyed our conversation.

David Chotka: And likewise, it was been it’s been easy to have the conversation with you. Thank you, Victoria.

Victoria Volk: And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life, much love.

Ep 189 Stepping Back To Move Forward: Lessons From Spirit

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

For this week’s episode, I drew inspiration from an oracle deck by creator Colette Baron-Reid called Postcards from Spirit. Its message to you, my audience, and myself was the importance of stepping back to observe our thoughts and behaviors. This card pull reading inspired me to share my personal experience in decision-making as it relates to my business and how stepping away helped me gain clarity. The episode touches on human design, emotional authority, and the traps of fear-based decisions while offering encouragement.

Key Points Discussed: 

  • Oracle Card Inspiration: Victoria begins by sharing an Oracle card reading meant to provide guidance for herself and listeners.
  • Observation as a Tool: Emphasizes the value of being an observer of life’s situations rather than reacting impulsively or emotionally.
  • Personal Anecdote on Decision Making: I share a recent, behind-the-scene experience in making a business decision.
  • Human Design Insights: This is a brief introduction to Human Design elements, such as ’emotional authority,’ that impact decision-making processes.
  • Growth Through Challenges: Encourages embracing opportunities that push us beyond our comfort zones for personal growth.
  • Grief Reflections: The observation theme is connected to grieving, urging listeners to examine their beliefs about suffering and healing.
  • Taking Action Toward Peaceful Living: Inspires listeners to take small steps towards observing their inner selves for peace.
  • I invite anyone who wants to further the discussion or would like additional support to reach out for a free consultation.

RESOURCES:

_______

NEED HELP?

  • National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
  • Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor

If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.

CONNECT WITH VICTORIA: 

In the hustle and bustle of our daily lives, we’re often swept up in a whirlwind of emotions and hurried decisions. This week on Grieving Voices, we delve into the profound wisdom found within Colette Baron Reid’s Postcards from Spirit oracle deck – a message that serves as a gentle reminder about the power of stepping back to gain clarity.

The Message: Neutrality is Key

The card pulled speaks volumes: “Observe rather than act.” It’s an invitation to take a breath, step out of the chaos, and look at situations with fresh eyes. In doing so, we allow ourselves space for neutrality in decision-making. But what does it mean to be neutral?

Neutrality doesn’t imply indifference or lack of care; instead, it means approaching decisions without being clouded by intense emotions or biases. It’s about finding balance between detachment and engagement – observing your thoughts and feelings without immediately reacting to them.

Personal Reflections

As your host Victoria shared from her personal journey, making significant choices such as investing in a business coach can stir up an array of emotions including fear, excitement, doubt, and hope. She navigated this crossroad through journaling and open discussions which allowed her to step back from the emotional edge.

Here are some ways you can apply this practice:

– Journaling: Write down your thoughts without censorship. Seeing your fears or hopes on paper can make them less overwhelming.
– Talking it Out: Discussing options with trusted friends or mentors provides new perspectives.
– Waiting Period: Give yourself time before making big decisions; sleep on it if necessary.

Applying Wisdom Amidst Grief

Grief has its own complex layers that affect decision-making processes profoundly. When you’re grieving – whether over lost loved ones or past versions of yourself – old beliefs may surface like uninvited guests at dinner time.

Ask yourself:
– Am I choosing based on fear?
– Are my decisions trying to avoid pain rather than embracing growth?

Observation becomes crucial here because grief can obscure our view like foggy glasses. By cleaning those lenses through observation, you might find peace amidst turmoil.

Supportive Steps Forward

Remember that observing isn’t passive; it’s an active process towards informed choices leading toward healing and potential fulfillment. As mentioned in Grieving Voices podcast:

1) Reflect deeply on how past experiences influence current choices.
2) Seek support when needed – consultations offer professional guidance.
3) Embrace patience with yourself during difficult times.

Tune In For More Insights

If these ideas resonate with you or spark curiosity about navigating life’s challenges more mindfully—be sure not miss next week’s episode! Available across platforms like iTunes, Google Podcasts & Spotify (you can even ask Alexa), each session aims at empowering listeners towards unleashing their heart’s full capacity—because ultimately unlocking one’s heart unlocks life itself!

Let us all remember: there is immense strength found within moments where we choose simply observe before leaping into action—it is there that clarity emerges from calmness much love until next time!

Episode Transcription:

Victoria: Hello. Hello. Thank you for tuning in to this week’s episode of grieving voices. I am your host, Victoria. And I wasn’t sure what I was going to do for today’s episode in just decided I would pull a card from one of my oracle decks to see if I felt inspired. And I chose my favorite deck to pull a card from. And it’s called postcards from Spirit, and it’s from been created by Colette Baron Reid, who is the bestselling author of the map and uncharted. I have not read her books, but I might have to just because I absolutely love this deck so much. I bring it to expos and public events that I go to where I share about grief recovery and the grief work that I do and energy healing, and I ask people if they would like a a card pulled. And the is the deck I usually use and it’s amazing to me how people read these cards and they’re brought to tears. It’s as if it really is a message from one of their dearly departed, just giving them a message of of hope or comfort or just exactly what they needed to hear that day. And so when I pulled this card, I pulled it with the intention of what my audience, what you out there may need to hear today. And So I’m gonna read the card and then I’m just gonna share some reflections around it and my thoughts about it. Deer you. Now as one of those times, you’re being asked to add some distance. Take a step back and do nothing but observe. Don’t worry about how long it will take to regroup. Just know it’s temporary and actually an opportunity to take a breath, slow down and look at how far you’ve come. Decisions for the highest good are made when you have clarity, which comes from being open to information from both the intellect, and the intuition. When you step into the role of observer, it’s as if you turn on a switch that allows your soul to be an essential part of the information gathering and decision making process. In this way, you can approach things from a more neutral and non judgmental place. We know you’ll make the right choice. Trust us when we say now is not the time to get too close to the fray. Step back now. You will be glad you did. When I read that, I thought a lot about just how we go about our day to day, not even being an observer. Of our own behavior, of our beliefs, of the thoughts that we have about ourselves, Maybe even others, judgments of others, a quick glance and we have this quick thought We don’t observe our own thoughts. We don’t take the time enough to observe ourselves, our behavior, our thoughts, our beliefs, all of it. And I think what I’ve personally learned just even through human design, in my human design as a manifesto, which I’ll link in the show notes if you’re not sure what that is. I’m not gonna go down that rabbit hole today, but what I learned is, for me, what I need to do to get my clarity and to observe is to step away from whatever it is is activating me in the moment. Whether it is a decision to be made or I’m gathering information like this is the perfect card probably for me and this is probably something I needed to hear too. But a reminder for me and you that if you are an emotional authority in human design, which is fifty percent of the population, If you are an emotional authority, you have to ride your emotional wave. We are not in a Claire And we are not clear in our decision making process. We are not in a neutral place. When we make decisions on an emotional high or in an emotional low. I’ll give you an example. I recently was like February or so I had been well, starting in January, actually, I had been debating on if I wanted to hire the certain business coach. And I it just threw me into this emotional roller coaster that was so unexpected it was a significant investment. I’d never invested that much in myself nor for my personal development in my business for I’ve invested plenty. Trust me, in my certifications and in learning. And growing for my business, but never to this degree. And it really just threw me for a loop. I I mean, I was I couldn’t sleep. I was trying to intellectually rationalize why I thought I wanted this, why I couldn’t afford it, or why I didn’t deserve it, or all these things like it was it was literally like an emotional roller coaster. And but what was at the heart of it was that in what I came to understand when I stepped away and journaled through my emotions, which, you know, I have a defined throat. If you have a defined throat, you need to get this stuff out. I think either way, you need to get the stuff out, but, you know, emotionally or you know, with sound or singing or poetry, like, the if you have a defined throat, like, you have a motor in your throat that needs to get things up and out verbally. And So I started to do that. I started to talk with some trusted friends, talk it through with trusted friends, journal it through, and really did my due diligence on making sure that I was gonna get to a place that I felt like it was a decision that was coming from a neutral place and that I wasn’t trying to intellectualize my decision, and I wasn’t trying to shut down my intuition at at the same time. Honoring both, the both and, like, I can feel scared, but I can also feel excited about this opportunity Not knowing, will I ever get this opportunity again to work with this person? At the end of the day and after weeks, trust me, it was weeks. I even asked for an extra week to give my final decision, which they were so graceful in doing. I came to the decision that this is exactly what I needed. And what I wanted for myself and for my business and I can tell you that it has been one of the most stretching things I have ever done in recent years. Aside probably since I went through my grief recovery program, since I worked through my grief the very first time. In twenty nineteen when I got certified and went through the program for great recovery myself. So a lot’s changed for me since that time, but just since signing up with this coach, it was almost like that act of of choosing and doing that has really stretched me and that’s what I wanted. I wanted growth in a different way. I wanted to challenge my beliefs around what I deserved or what was, you know, money. Money is a huge issue for so many people. But I found a way. I found a way, and I have made a way. And because it was a priority, for me. And but I had to come to the place of being an observer first. And how many decisions do we make? Not observing. Just making a fear based decision. For the most part, I think most of us make fear based decisions. Had I said no to this opportunity, which I was looking at it like an opportunity number one, but had I said no to it, I thought that through to the end, like, I would have I I would have felt like I missed an opportunity to expand and grow my business in a way that I couldn’t see it for myself. And also, I know myself well enough to know then I need some accountability. And, you know, so some of us, you know, do really well answering to ourselves what some of us need. More than that, some of us need accountability, partners, or somebody to, hey, did you do that thing? And I’m very good at pushing people off the ledge. Of whatever it is they’re trying to do or wanting to do. So if you need a ledge pusher like I’m your gal, if there is a dream or a goal that you’ve been putting on the back burner and have been afraid to do, I can be your courage, your ounce of courage that you need. And I can be your pusher because I love pushing people. To meet their potential. And that comes back to my u map, which I have Maximizer in my top ten, so I love to maximize other people into their meeting their potential. Anyway, I’m getting on a tangent of view map and human design and all of that. But coming back to this card, I want you just to think about and maybe listen to it again in the framework of your grief. You know, if you’re not observing yourself, and your beliefs, and your grief, what is that costing you? Do you believe that you are just destined to suffer the rest of your life? That how you’re feeling today? Is how you’re just always gonna feel and why bother? That was me at one time? That’s a lie. I’ll tell you that is a lie. Check-in with your intuition. Make a point to observe yourself. Observe your behavior, observe your thoughts? Like, why am I thinking this way? Why do I think that is true? What is the evidence? What proof do I have? We will always look for the proof in whatever of how we perceive things. We will look for the proof to back that up. Right? We don’t like to be challenged in our in our thought patterns and beliefs. Particularly, we don’t like it. But that’s what I think is what’s keeping so many people stuck in their grief in particular. Is they’re not being challenged in that way. They’re not challenging themselves. They’re not being the observer of their own selves because we can we can project our pain and our suffering on other people all we want, but it’s not gonna bring us to peace. That’s an inside job. Peace is an inside job. And it starts with being an observer. And that’s that’s my reflection on this card and I’m really glad I just, you know, I needed some inspiration for today’s episode, and I it was the perfect card. For today, for you, and for me, a reminder of how far I’ve come, Since I’ve been working on my grief in early twenty nineteen, my life has just exploded in the best way. In growth, in learning, and It’s expanded in all areas of my life really. You know, I worked out this morning and it was a really hard workout. That I hadn’t done in quite some time. In fact, I hadn’t picked up weights in quite some time. I had been doing power walks and stuff, but because I’d yeah. I’d hired a biz I’d I’d hired a health coach and was working with her and did was doing awesome. But for whatever reason, I can’t remember there was something that happened and it just kinda derailed me and I just I wasn’t picking up the weights anymore, and now I’m back to square one. When you don’t use it, you lose it. And that is the truth when it whether it’s your body, your mind, your heart, If you don’t give yourself love, you lose it, you start to lose it for yourself. And So yeah, I hope this inspired you to take some sort of small action today If you want to discuss further or talk deeper about whatever came up for you, I would love that. I’m all for free consultations. If I can better help and serve you, I that’s what I’m here to do. And otherwise, I will see you next week here in iTunes. Google Podcasts or Spotify wherever you’re listening to me. It’s available on all platforms. You can even say, Alexa, play, griving voices, podcasts, and it’ll start playing. So, I’m here when you need me. And remember, When you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.

 

 

Ep 177 Searching for Alignment

Searching for Alignment

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

Have you ever felt like a ship adrift, disconnected from your true north? In this profound journey we call life, alignment with our authentic selves is often clouded by the fog of grief and loss. But what if I told you there’s a compass waiting to guide you back to yourself?

Tune in to this week’s episode of “Grieving Voices,”  where I unveil the transformative potential of the Youmap framework.

In this heartfelt session:
– Explore what it means to live in alignment with our authentic selves and how misalignment can lead to grief.
– Discover the four pillars – strengths, values, skills, personality – that form the foundation of living an aligned life in the Youmap framework.
– Learn about the various forms of grief that arise when we stray from our true path.
– Emphasize the importance of self-understanding as a tool for unlocking one’s potential.

Who Can Benefit From Youmap?
– The newly widowed seeking new beginnings
– Those who’ve experienced job loss
–  New divorcees aiming for self-discovery
It also holds value for college-bound students navigating their future paths.

Whether facing significant life transitions or seeking deeper self-understanding, Youmap offers clarity and direction. And for those supporting others through loss? It’s essential knowledge.

Special Anniversary Giveaway Announcement:
The Unleashed Heart is turning 5! 🥳 In Celebrating five years of transforming lives and supporting grievers, I’m giving a special giveaway. Get a chance to win 2 prizes: a 60-minute Distance Energy Healing Session and a 60-minute Distance Heart with Ears Session 🎉 The giveaway starts this January 11, 2024, and ends on January 23, 2024. The winners will be announced on the 5th-anniversary date, January 23.  I encouraged listeners to join and participate. For more details on entering the giveaway, check the resources below.

Dive deep into who you are and discover what makes you tick; it’s time to live a life aligned with your purpose!

Key Takeaway:
Misalignment with our authentic selves can manifest as various forms of grief – from career dissatisfaction to deep personal regret. But there’s hope!

Remember: “You always had the power, my dear. You just had to learn it for yourself.”

RESOURCES:

  • YouMap
  • Episode Sponsor: Magic Mind | Use the code “GRIEVINGVOICES” to receive one month free with a 3-month subscription. This special promotion is only for January!
  • 5th Anniversary Giveaway! Register before 1/23/2024 at 11 AM CST to win a 60-minute Distance Energy Healing Session OR a 60-minute Distance Heart with Ears Session! ✨

_______

NEED HELP?

  • National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
  • Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor

If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.

CONNECT WITH VICTORIA: 

 

Victoria Volk
00:01:29 – 00:01:56
Welcome back to another episode of Grieving Voices. I am your host, Victoria V. And today, I have a thought-provoking topic to explore, finding alignment in our lives and the grief that can arise when we stray from our authentic selves.

Victoria Volk
00:01:57 – 00:02:56
In this episode, I’ll dive into alignment, its impact on our well-being, and the steps to align our lives with our strengths, values, skills, and personality, which these are the 4 pillars of what’s called the Youmap. So grab a cup of tea, find a comfortable spot, and let’s dig in, shall we? I wanna begin to explore what it means to live a life in alignment with our authentic selves. Alignment is the state of being where our actions, choices, and pursuits align with our core strengths, values, skills, and personality, essentially, the essence of who we are, which is provided as a snapshot in what’s called a Youmap. For those who are new to this podcast or who haven’t heard of Youmap before, Youmap is a comprehensive framework and a tool that helps individuals better understand themselves and align their lives with their authentic selves.

Victoria Volk
00:02:57 – 00:04:08
It comprises 4 pillars, your top five strengths, values, preferred and least preferred skills, and how you’re wired or your personality. By exploring these aspects of ourselves, we gain clarity on our unique gifts, what is most important to us, our abilities, and how we are inspired. Youmap provides a language and framework to articulate our strengths and gifts to the world, and it helps us make informed decisions and pursue opportunities that align with who we truly are. When we deviate from this alignment that’s expressed in our unique Youmap, grief can emerge as we mourn the loss of our true selves and the missed opportunities that come with it. A quick rundown of the different grief experiences that can arise from living a life that is not in sync with our Youmap, saying yes or mistakenly no, like likely due to the lack of clarity, uncertainty, and or fear to opportunities, pursuing the wrong partners or careers, dishonoring our own values, burnout from not understanding or misapplying your skill set, overuse of your strengths.

Victoria Volk
00:04:08 – 00:04:51
For example, if one of your top five strengths is responsibility, you’ve likely found yourself in burnout, especially if you also have the belief strength in your top five. Moving on, why does knowing all of this even matter? The awareness and understanding of self is the gateway, I believe, to all of the potential, your potential, that life has to offer. The Youmap Framework provides us with a powerful tool for understanding ourselves and cultivating alignment in our lives. The 4 pillars, again, strengths, values, skills and personality are discovered through 4 different assessments that typically take 2 hours or less to complete.

Victoria Volk
00:04:51 – 00:05:27
At the end of it, you have the Youmap snapshot of who you are, providing you with the language of what you have to offer the world and others. You discover what is most important to you through your values. As a result and through coaching, you’ll recognize where there may be need for boundaries to be put into place. And overall, the magic and the uniqueness that is you, that you bring to those around you. By clarifying our strengths, values, skills, and personality, we can make informed decisions, pursue meaningful opportunities, and create a life that resonates with our true selves.

Victoria Volk
00:05:27 – 00:06:01
The whole point of the Youmap is to bring to the forefront what makes you, you. That being said, because we are souls having a human experience, we also navigate the mess and challenges of life, and the shadows of our gifts can also be expressed in covert subconscious ways. Living a life out of alignment can lead to a deep sense of grief. We may mourn the loss of time, energy, and potential that could have been directed toward Suits that align with our true selves. The emotional toll of misalignment impacts us and those with whom we live in close proximity and in relationships.

Victoria Volk
00:06:01 – 00:06:33
You’re probably not living in full expression of your magic. On the other side of that coin, maybe you believe you are living in alignment or are making great strides towards doing so. Have you then been told you’re too much, or do you have people in your life who are uncomfortable seeing you succeed at living in alignment? It’s such a mind trip figuring this all out, but I never said awareness would be painless. These realizations and revelations of what you want for your life are often met with resistance and naysaying from others.

Victoria Volk
00:06:33 – 00:07:03
As a result, we can fall back into those old familiar belief patterns that then hold us back. Acknowledging and processing our grief around these awarenesses can pave the way for a more fulfilling and purpose driven existence. Before I go on to share who Youmap is for, let me pause to share about the sponsor of this episode, Magicmind. Magicmind helped me write about this podcast episode. I don’t usually write out an episode, rather I usually record off the cuff.

Victoria Volk
00:07:03 – 00:07:25
However, I felt inspired to write this episode out, and perhaps in part, due to the magic mind shot I took this morning. The words have just flowed, so I ran with it. Magicmind is a 2 ounce shot that gives 7 hours of flow state. Customers report a 40% boost to productivity on average.,Take it alongside your usual morning coffee or tea or in place of.

Victoria Volk
00:07:25 – 00:08:09
Reduce stress, gain focus and clarity, steady and calm energy, which I can attest to and without jitters, by the way, and see the benefits build with daily use. And for you, my dear listeners, only for the month of January, Magicmind is offering 1 month free with a 3-month subscription when you use my link atmagicmind.com/Jan GrievingVoices, j a n, grieving voices, and with my code, grieving voices. That’s an extra 20% off, which gets you to 75% off to give it a good try. Again, this only lasts until the end of January, so hurry up before it goes away. Magicmind.com/jangrievingvoices and code grieving voices.

Victoria Volk
00:08:09 – 00:08:40
The link is also in the show notes. Now let’s focus and get back to the Youmap, now that you understand the importance of alignment and the grief that can arise from misalignment, there’s one thing you can do right now, discover yourself in your Youmap. Youmap isn’t just for the young or middle aged adult who is newly widowed and has been awakened to the fragility of life after loss and wants to embark on something new. It’s not just for the adult suffered a job loss and feels like a needle in the haystack of other applicants.

Victoria Volk
00:08:40 – 00:09:13
And it’s not just for the new divorcee who wants to understand themselves better and is in need of a change. Youmap is also for college bound students. You may have heard this story before in a previous episode where I discussed Youmap, but if not, my son, now 18, dreamed of enlisting in the marine since he was around age 12. However, life threw him a curve ball that made that dream impossible when he was going on 17. He decided to pursue nursing through that life-altering experience and with the newfound awareness his Youmap gave him.

Victoria Volk
00:09:13 – 00:09:52
He’s currently a freshman at college and loves what he is learning. He has also become the certified nursing assistant and finds a lot of joy in working with the elderly. However, he has chosen to pursue the area of neonatal and pediatrics instead. I also recently had my soon to be college bound daughter complete it, and it was uncanny how spot on her strengths were, which are all people facing and relating strengths, which is rare to have all 5 strengths in 1 category. I know that 1 pitfall she may experience due to all 5 being in relating is that she will never feel within herself that she is making a difference.

Victoria Volk
00:09:52 – 00:10:15
She will need to ask for feedback from others on how she has helped them to feel within herself that she’s having a positive impact. She is also planning to pursue a degree in nursing. However, she has an interest in the field of psychology. Finding alignment is a lifelong process. It requires self-reflection, courage, and a willingness to embrace change.

Victoria Volk
00:10:15 – 00:10:47
By cultivating awareness of our strengths, values, skills and personality, we can navigate the grief of misalignment and embark on a transform transformative journey toward living a life that is a true reflection of who we are, remember, you can create a life of purpose and alignment. And as the good witch, Glenda, in The Wizard of Oz says to Dorothy, I will say to you now. You always had the power, my dear. You just had to learn it for yourself. To learn more about Youmap, head to my website.

Victoria Volk
00:10:47 – 00:11:10
And under services, you will find a link to Youmap with more information at theunleashedheart.com under services, the link will also be in the show notes. Around the new year, you’ll see new your new you said a lot. Rather, I will say, new year evolved you. It’s more conducive, I think, to the human experience. We are always a work in progress.

Victoria Volk
00:11:10 – 00:11:39
Youmap is a tool among several others that I offer that can help you with your evolution. Hey.  Speaking of evolution, before I let you go today, I just wanted to share that last week on January 11th, I launched a giveaway. On the 23rd of this month is my business’s 5th anniversary. And to celebrate, I’m giving away A 60-minute distance healing session and also a 60-minute distance heart with ears session.

Victoria Volk
00:11:39 – 00:12:18
There are multiple ways to enter, And this will run into through next week, 23rd, at 11 AM Central Standard Time. So head on over to theunleashed heart.com/5th anniversarygiveaway, or there’s gonna be a link in the show notes where you can easily sign up and register there. And check out social media @theunleashedheart on Instagram, Victoria The Unleashed Heart on Facebook, and it’ll be shared in all those places as well. And I hope you enter. And if you are lucky to win, I look forward to meeting you.

Victoria Volk
00:12:18 – 00:12:45
I just wanted to do something fun to celebrate 5 years, which has been very much an evolution in my business as well, and to share my joy and my passion and to give back to the community that has been so supportive of me and my podcast and the work that I do. So good luck, my friends. Until next time, remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.

 

Ep 163 Biofield Tuning: Raising Voltage & Harmonizing the Body

Biofield Tuning: Raising Voltage & Harmonizing the Body

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY: 

Biofield Tuning is a type of sound healing that helps to relieve emotional and physical stress. It is a holistic wellness modality that uses the vibration from tuning forks to induce targeted relaxation and to recalibrate our vibrational rhythms from stressors that deplete us. Your biofield or aura is the electromagnetic energy field that surrounds your body, which extends 5-6′ in all directions from your body. It is connected with your conscious and subconscious mind, including all your memories.

Because we are electrical beings, what affects one part affects the whole. What happens within the body is expressed in the body’s magnetic field (or Biofield). And what is stuck, perturbed, or tangled in the magnetic field informs the body – they are connected. Through Biofield Tuning, we can use electromagnetism within (and around) the body to rewire, recharge, and raise the body’s voltage.

In his book, A New Earth, Eckhart Tolle describes the “pain body” as “the remains of pain left behind by every strong negative emotion that is not fully faced, accepted, and then let go of, join together to form an energy field that lives in the very cells of your body.” In Biofield Tuning, we work within the energy field to bring harmony so the body can operate at its fullest energetic potential and expression.  This harmony brought to the body can be incredibly supportive to those grieving.

***SURPRISE! Through October, I’m offering ✨10 discount codes ✨ for NEW  Energy Healing Clients. Use the code grievingvoices10 to receive 10% off any energy healing session. You don’t have to schedule in October to receive the discount. If the code does not work, all ten codes have been redeemed. ***

RESOURCES:

_______

NEED HELP?

  • National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
  • Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor

If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.

CONNECT WITH VICTORIA: 

Victoria Volk: Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, whatever time it is you’re listening to this episode. Thank you so much for tuning in and for pushing play and for being here. If this is your first time listening, this is a great episode to start with, but if not, thank you for tuning in again.

Victoria Volk: Today, I want to talk about something I haven’t talked about yet on the podcast and shared with you, and that is about biofield tuning which is an energy healing modality that I offer in person and over distance. And I’ll get into a lot of stuff today, so let’s get into it.

Victoria Volk: So the founder of biofuel tuning Eileen McKusick. She created her own set of tuning forks and the process of biofuel tuning. And she mapped out the biofield through her twenty-plus years of research and then working with individuals and groups. But biofield tuning is a type of sound healing that helps to relieve emotional and physical stress. It is a holistic wellness modality that uses the vibration from tuning forks to induce targeted relaxation and to recalibrate our vibrational rhythms from stressors that deplete us.

Victoria Volk: Your biofield or aura is the electric magnetic energy field that surrounds your body. It extends five to six feet out from you and it is connected with your conscious and subconscious mind, including all of your memories. A biofield tune introduces a coherent sound into the energy field, allowing the body’s nervous system to release subtle energy that creates dissonance in our lives. By activating a tuning fork in the biofield that offers your body the information it needs to recalibrate itself. During a biofield tuning session, a client lies fully clothed on a treatment table while the practitioner slowly scans the body, with an activated tuning fork beginning from a distance. If the session is conducted at a distance, the client may rest quietly and comfortably in their home or go about their day. Although I do find clients appreciate the opportunity to connect and rest during this session but either way, the energetic turbulences that must be addressed will come up regardless of what you do during the session. As your practitioner, I feel for resistance and turbulence in your energy field. I also listen for a change in the overtones and undertones of the tuning fork. And when a turbulent area is encountered, I continue to activate the tuning fork holding it in that area.

Victoria Volk: And research suggests that the body’s organizational energy uses the tuning fork steady coherent vibrational frequency to tune itself. Soon the dissonance results and the resistance gives way. This resistance seems to correspond to the release of subconsciously held tension in the body. One might interpret this as a kind of targeted nervous to biofeedback. Eileen founder has come to see this process as consciousness hacking, a side door entry into the psyche, working with what has been hidden in plain view, which assists people in making changes they otherwise could not on their own. Holding an activated tuning fork in the area of the traumatic memory or another challenging period produces repeatable, predictable outcomes. The sound input helps the body digest and integrate unprocessed experiences. As the biofield dissonance subsides, clients generally report feeling lighter and diminishing or resolving of their symptoms.

Victoria Volk: So we can think of the human body as a tuning, self-tuning instrument just like you can use a tuning fork to tune a piano. You can also use the tuning fork to tune the body as I’ve talked about. And as I mentioned, biofuel tuning uses these tuning forks to scan through the body’s electromagnetic field and then finds that distance and resistance. And anything with electric current running through, it has a magnetic field around it. A changing magnetic field can cause electric changes, charges to move, essentially moving energy. Because if you remember from high school science class, energy can neither be changed nor destroyed. It can only be moved.

Victoria Volk: A vibrating tuning fork produces electricity and therefore magnetism. The tuning fork acts like a magnet, moving charges within the body’s magnetic field, shifting how electricity moves through the body. Pain can be experienced as too much electric current through the wires or the nerves. And we know that magnetic fields guide electric currents. So by shifting the body’s magnetic field, and thus shifting the electrical flow in the body, we can release pain, tension, stuck emotions and trauma.

Victoria Volk: Pain is essentially a manifestation of too much electrical current through the wires, and we can redirect that energy by manipulating the magnetic field. And with tuning forks, we can sense the rhythms of the currents in the body in a similar way to how punctured needles are used. Essentially, I and other certified biofuel tuning practitioners are bioelectricians.

Victoria Volk: In his book, A New Earth, Eckhart Tolle describes the pain body, which he describes in which we describe in biofuel tuning as being perturbations and stuck energy, Eckhart states that “the remains of pain left behind by every strong negative emotion that is not fully faced, accepted, and then let go of, join together to form an energy field that lives in the very cells of your body”.

Victoria Volk: In my work with grievers and from my personal experience, I can tell you that traumatic events or experiences which don’t have to be significant tea traumas, by the way, and grief overall manifest in the body. Through countless conversations with people and the deep internal work I’ve done to work through my past, I can tell you that when we have experiences that throw us off kilter, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, etcetera, our voltage goes way down. We become more susceptible to illness or injury due to reduced focus and concentration and have less energy to sustain us to meet our goals and sometimes even our daily needs. And after this point, we find ourselves on a slippery slope of feeling depressed, lacking passion, and just getting by day to day, living a lackluster life where we begin to forget who we were before life knocked us down. Where we no longer see possibilities, but instead roadblocks and find it far too easy to make excuses for ourselves.

Victoria Volk: If you’ve experienced periods of challenge and adversity in your life and believe you’ve addressed those things, take a moment to take a bird’s eye view of your life from that period on. Zoom way out. Look at your life. Do you recognize shifts within your energy? How you showed up for yourself, your partner, friends, colleagues and how you’ve functioned at work and in life. Have you resorted to alcohol or other means to relax your afraid nerves? Have you needed a crutch to sleep at night? Does food or shopping fill a void created by a feeling of lack in some area of her life? Such as love, affection, recognition, or attention because we are electrical beings what affects one part affects the whole. And what happens within the body is expressed in the body’s magnetic field or biofield. And what is stuck, perturbed, or tangled in the magnetic field informs the body. They are connected. Through biofuel tuning, we can use electromagnetism within and around the body to rewire recharge, and raise the body’s voltage.

Victoria Volk: I can tell by looking at someone’s posture, stride when they walk or overall how they carry themselves, where they may have an area of dissonance or resistance in their body and magnetic field. For example, the shoulders are telling because the left shoulder’s energetic imbalance relates to sadness, grief, and loss. Meanwhile, the right shoulder imbalance relates to saying yes when we mean no and emotional caretaking. And by looking at someone’s posture, it’s easy to visualize which shoulder on the person is likely a source of energetic imbalance. Every energy center, which you may know also as chakras, relates to an area each governs such as the third eye governing the pineal gland and the brain, as well as what the energy of that center relates to emotionally and its function when it’s healthy or imbalanced.

Victoria Volk: A healthy third eye center, which relates to our intuition and thought processes gives us a clear third eye perception, mental focus, and acuity. An unhealthy low energy, third eye, would have us struggling with focus and experiencing a distrust or disconnection from our intuition. Furthermore, depending on which side the imbalance also occurs, the right or left side means something a little different too. An imbalance of the third eye chakra on the right side which is the masculine side relates to overthinking the past whereas the left, the feminine side relates to worrying about the future. Add in a traumatic experience where your sense of safety and security was jeopardized, or taken away, which this relates to the first chakra, the root chakra located in the tailbone, and your entire central channel is likely compromised and imbalanced. In such experiences, grounding practices are a supportive way to help yourself. There is so much more sciencey information I could go into in this episode, which I totally would love to share and geek out over with you. However, I fear I’d lose some of you listening who are more interested in what’s in it for you and who it’s for. And who it isn’t for and more commonly asked questions, which I’ll get into in a moment.

Victoria Volk: However, suppose you’d like to dive into the science behind biofield tuning. In that case, I recommend checking out Eileen’s book tuning the human biofield, where she digs into deep into the science of energy itself, including but not limited to biophotons and thermodynamics. Much of which is above my head, but is precisely why I was drawn to biofuel tuning. As a skeptic myself, I was searching for what feels like truth to me and needing the facts the science behind biofuel tuning is what peaked my curiosity and drew me in.

Victoria Volk: So, alright. Well, let’s get to some FAQs about biofuel tuning. And here’s just a quick down and dirty of a few facts about some Q and A about biofuel tuning that if you’re listening, if you’re thinking this might be for you, this is a great segment for you to listen to. So conditions that biofuel tuning may help with include, but are not limited to, concussion recovery, which I have to say, if it’s been less than six months since you’ve had a concussion, you should probably wait to have biofuel tuning. Anxiety, addiction, adrenal stress, digestive issues, PTSD, fear or phobias, panic attacks, vertigo, menstrual issues, depression, pain, fibromyalgia, autoimmune conditions, migraines or headaches, restless leg syndrome.

Victoria Volk: And those with the following are not candidates to receive biofuel tuning however, could receive Reiki, which is another healing modality I provide. So if you’re pregnant, have cancer, a terminal illness, a pacemaker, pain stimulator implants, or are very sick these are precautions that we take with biofuel tuning. Eileen has stated that these conditions or precautions and that as practitioners, we use common sense that, you know, we should be using common and because every situation is different and nuanced, in some circumstances, it’s best to avoid biofield tuning altogether and other times where a gentle approach may be taken such as using weighted forks It is the practitioner’s discretion. And I and personally, I think that less is more in these circumstances. So what can you expect during a session? There is no guarantee that a specific result will occur from biofield tuning. However, what can happen is you can experience detox like symptoms. As the body releases tension toxins in constricted tissues are released, which may produce flu like symptoms exhaustion, waves of emotion, loose stools, and in extreme cases, which are very rare, rashes, and vomiting. However, clients also report feeling lighter, having more energy, clarity of mind, and a feeling of energetic ease and flow.

Victoria Volk: So how many sessions would I need to experience before I can expect to receive benefits from biofuel tuning? So biofuel tuning just like any healing modality is cumulative. So every session builds on the one prior to it. Like chiropractic trains the bones to find their balanced relationship, biofuel tuning, trains the magnetic electrical system of the body to flow in a balanced rhythmically, harmonious way. So if a person has had long term, extreme, nonbeneficial inputs, it may take longer to achieve balance. Younger people respond more quickly than older people. Generally, a minimum of three sessions is recommended to begin, often a presenting symptom can be cleared within three sessions. If there is no change in a condition after three sessions, then it is likely that biofuel tuning will not be able to help with that particular condition.

Victoria Volk: Is there an age limit for receiving biofuel tuning? As there is no age limit for receiving biofuel tuning, however, less is more with seniors, those who are over age sixty five and with children who generally should receive shorter sessions. Children between the ages of two to six can become hyperactive after a biofiltering session. So I do offer thirty minute sessions for seniors over sixty-five and children who are thirteen and under.

Victoria Volk: Can biofuel tuning treat issues like depression or bipolar disorder? Yes. Eileen views, conditions such as depression and or bipolar disorders as tonal imbalances, rather than chemical imbalances, which can be readily addressed with biofuel tuning. For example, during a biofuel tuning scan, a bipolar person will exhibit high tones associated with anxiety and mania as well as low tones linked with depression, but a mid-tone range will be absent. In such cases, the practitioners’ biofuel tuning to quiet the high tones, and lift the low tones, which will strengthen the mid-tone range. This helps the recipient achieve a more balanced state.

Victoria Volk: Does biofuel tuning work on animals? Animals respond beautifully to biofuel tuning. Biofuel tuning has helped pets stops being fearful of thunder, more trusting of strangers, stop fussing with hot spots and generally enter a healthier relaxed state. Pets respond well to in person biofuel tuning and when they receive it from a distance.

Victoria Volk: How does biofield tuning work from a distance? I lean herself scoffed at the idea of offering biofield tuning at a distance until she was convinced to give it tried by a friend who was a doctor. What she found, astonished even her. There was no difference in the client’s experience. To understand how distance healing works. It helps to understand what the ether is. One of the biggest omissions in our collective cosmology or understanding of the nature of life is ether. Essentially, either is the ocean of clear light that all creation arises from. Information travels through this medium much faster than light speed because the information of the entire field is accessible at any point. While the term aether is not in our popular sycambe. The concept of the phenomenon persists and has been referred to by many other names including the zero point field, the source field, the torsion field, the field, the acacic field and even the higgs field, whose definition is an invisible energy field that exists throughout the universe. And is very similar to the definition of aether. This can potentially explain the mechanics of how distant healing works. For example, with intention, transfer your awareness from your left foot and then into your right hand. Notice that there is no sense of that awareness having to travel in a linear way through your body. In the same way, a client can place their intention, their awareness, and their consciousness on a treatment table regardless of where it is in actuality. It is through this same kind of intention that vibrational patterns can be found at a distance with a biofield tuning practitioner’s tuning fork and modulated into a more coherent and harmonic expression.

Victoria Volk: As the nonlocal interconnective medium that unifies us all in real time, aether is the missing link in so called paranormal phenomena such as remote viewing and distance healing. Of course, this is all very sciencey. And in a nutshell, I always like to simply say, time knows no space, time or sequence.

Victoria Volk: And I’ve had several clients who use to always be in-person clients and receive biofield tuning or reiki and have since switched to distant sessions because of the convenience mostly, but also because they haven’t noticed any less benefit to receiving. So what is here’s one last Q and A.

Victoria Volk: What is biofield tuning detox? Which I mentioned previously. The biofield tuning recipient may experience a detox response after a session which is completely normal and means the body is releasing the stress and trauma. Generally, these symptoms pass within one to three days. And the following are possible symptoms of detox, fatigue, waves of emotions like crying or being angry or sad, loose stools, exhaustion, headaches, or dizziness, flu like symptoms, or in very rare cases, skin rashes, mucus, fever, vomiting, excessive thirst. If clients have an extreme detox response from their biofuel tuning session, I ask them to contact me. Otherwise know that a detox is good. It means the energy and toxins are moving and are being released, and I always say that are out than in.

Victoria Volk: Alright. So there you have it. A lot of info packed into one episode about a modality that I’m thrilled to share with you today. If you’ve never considered or received an energy healing biofuel tuning, it’s a great place to start if you want more bang for your buck, so to speak. I say that as someone who strictly offered reiki for several years before discovering biofuel tuning. So if you loved learning about this modality, please share this episode with a friend who may also find it interesting. And to learn more, you can check out Eileen’s book I previously mentioned or her website biofueltuning.com or my website to learn more. Check out the show notes for all the links. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.

Pin It on Pinterest

Skip to content